Worse Than Teabagging: Blocking Quest Progress in Dungeons

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Asikoo wrote: »

Teabagging actions can get an account banned. I never really understood how a simple crouch action can lead to a ban, but okay.

• What about doing quests in normal dungeons? We always have to ask: "Please, I have a quest can you let me finish it? Just wait 10 seconds. Please! " And even then, players often don't respect that. Disrespecting others by not letting them complete their quest should also be a bannable offense.

It's honestly crazy how players can’t wait just 10 seconds. Just 10 seconds, and they still rush ahead. This needs to change.

If teabagging is a bannable action, then preventing others from completing their quest and earning a skill point is even worse and it needs to stop. I’ve had to repeat the same dungeon 3 or 4 times just because players refuse to wait a few seconds.


EDIT:
This needs to change. Either start punishing players who rush through and skip normal(NORMAL) dungeons just to mess with others' experience, or change dungeon design to prevent skipping entirely make all players interact with the dungeon content. One way or another, this behavior needs to stop.

And to those who say, “You can bring friends or guildmates if you want to do the quest,” I say the same thing back: “You can bring friends or guildmates if you want to speedrun and skip everything.”

Me and many others are here to actually play the game not to skip it.

Random or specific dungeon queue's are not the right place to do quests. Sure you might occasionally get a group that won't mind but in general if you want to do quests and slow runs of content then premade groups via guilds/friends or the group finder is the right place for this not queueing to join randoms.

sans-culottes

Asikoo wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

No one suggested a level 10 player with a level 1 companion should solo a dungeon. That was never the claim. The comment about soloing was addressing a specific line, in a specific context. It was not a prescription for new players.

Yes, the game allows players to queue at level 10. That does not mean everyone in a public queue is required to stop and wait for every quest objective. Group finder is not designed to enforce pacing. It matches you with strangers who may or may not share your priorities. This is true in every MMO that offers automated matchmaking.

You are not being sabotaged. You are experiencing what it means to run content with randoms. If you want control over the pace or objectives, then that’s what premade groups are for. The system already accounts for this.

Why should we expect everyone to speedrun or use the group finder for every quest? I just want to play the game the way it was designed, no more, no less. Join the group finder, complete the quest. That’s the game, nothing more, nothing less.

It's somehow okay when some players ruin the experience for others, but it's not okay to ask people to just play the game as intended? Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that?

Players who are tired of the game can use Discord, guilds, friends, Instagram, whatever works for them. But others just want to play the game, without needing to rely on all that. Just log in and play. Simple.

The group finder exists to make it easier to find a group and enjoy the game, not to cater to players who are tired of playing it.

You are describing behavior you do not like in the random dungeon queue, but the solution you are resisting is the one best suited to your priorities.

If your goal is to complete quests at a specific pace without being rushed, then the group finder tool—or joining a guild—is precisely what it is there for. It allows you to set expectations up front and match with others who share them.

The random dungeon queue does not guarantee that. It pairs you with strangers with unknown goals, often focused on speed or efficiency. That is not griefing. It is how the tool is designed to work. Expecting tailored coordination from a random match is a category error.

None of this prevents you from playing the game. It simply means that if you want control over pace and objectives, then the burden to organize falls on you, not on the random players who happen to be in your queue.

Defatank

Numerous valid points being made to this and both parties honestly are correct.

1. People doing the quest should be given ample time to do their quest or even learn the mechanics of a dungeon if they have never stepped foot in there before that way they can help someone else learn that may be new to that same dungeon. Just because it's "normal" doesn't excuse it as being irrelevant content or being properly geared doesn't excuse you from dragging players through it and doesn't make them a less valuable of a player for that.

2. I speed run dungeons alot, but when I notice a "low" level player I always try to ask "Quest?" and if they say yes I simply put "If I need to stop please just say so". With that being said there are dungeons that I have not ran alot or not even ran yet (like the new ones from fallen banner) and I always love to enjoy taking more time with these because I am a tank and I want to be efficient for the group that I am running with whatever that speed may be. So me not knowing where to go or what to do automatically makes me look incompetent as the "tank" and that is kind of just a default role given to the tank as you're suppose to be the one that knows where everyone is going, but that is just how I have always done in MMO's and I like to think that is a polite tank thinking of the group and not just about himself and I always try to teach things to anyone who wants to know something as well as keeping my own mind open that I am not a know it all and can learn something from others. Its why we were blessed with 2 ears and 1 mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak


So how do we fix this? Honestly I think a simple checkbox should exist in the dungeon finder queue system where you can mark yourself only wanting to group with other players who are looking to learn the dungeon or even players who know the dungeon well and would respect a slower pace run and teach players how to run the dungeons. Yes this is going to make the queue slower for some people of course but I think this would be one of the easier solutions and if players queue into the "slow mode" if you will, and speed run or make the run difficult for the players who opted for that run then that is when I think ZOS should take action against those accounts. If you're just popping into the queue and give me whatever, yea you'll find a group quicker but you need to be aware that players in that could be veterans looking to do speed runs. OR you could add both features of "slow mode" and "speed mode" but again you're going to granulate the queue more by doing that and make people wait longer which goes to the point of people having multiple characters they need to get dailies done on etc. Personally I think slow mode is more so the right choice to add because those players want to take their time anyways and if having to wait another 10 min to get paired with like minded runners is what it takes then I think it would be worth it in the end.

Thank you,
Defatank

Vynera

Defatank wrote: »

So how do we fix this? Honestly I think a simple checkbox should exist in the dungeon finder queue system where you can mark yourself only wanting to group with other players who are looking to learn the dungeon or even players who know the dungeon well and would respect a slower pace run and teach players how to run the dungeons.

1. Could be even easier, make all dungeon questlines repeatable. If you have the skillpoint already, you get an extra armor / weapon piece, maybe enough that some people would help.
2. Adjust all questlines so you don't have to wait until something finishes (npc walking / talking etc.) / Or consider the quest as "completed" once the last boss is dead. NPC appears, quest ends, you get the reward, no matter if you have skipped some previous steps.

Defatank

Vynera wrote: »

Defatank wrote: »

So how do we fix this? Honestly I think a simple checkbox should exist in the dungeon finder queue system where you can mark yourself only wanting to group with other players who are looking to learn the dungeon or even players who know the dungeon well and would respect a slower pace run and teach players how to run the dungeons.

1. Could be even easier, make all dungeon questlines repeatable. If you have the skillpoint already, you get an extra armor / weapon piece, maybe enough that some people would help.
2. Adjust all questlines so you don't have to wait until something finishes (npc walking / talking etc.) / Or consider the quest as "completed" once the last boss is dead. NPC appears, quest ends, you get the reward, no matter if you have skipped some previous steps.

I have often said that I wish Devs would implement something where if I have completed some quest or something and I am grouped up with someone doing a quest I wish it would show me on the map hey this person needs to go here and do something that way that I know oh my party has something over here that needs to be done and they dont even have to say a word about it.

To go along with that and this is a bit more complicated, in "phased" areas that I have already completed something I wish there would be some kind of way that whatever leg of quest my party is on that it would phase me with them so I could assist in what they're doing too, but that is kind of getting outside the scope of the discussion some sorry I went down a rabbit hole lol but I think you get the jest of what I'm saying

Blood_again

OP I feel your pain. It is awful when you try to do a quest, but other players rush through.
But your request is unrealistic. Dungeon reward is designed to motivate people to fastrun. Fastrun will never be a bannable action, if no exploit or bug were used.

If you want a realistic solution for you: run the dungeon quests with friends.
It is not fair, sure. It won't bring you that satisfaction, probably.
But, if you wish running the dungeon quest - you'll manage to do it that way.
If you wish some revenge toward those horrible malicious fastrunners who disrespected your wish - just leave it. Be a realist.

Whis week I ran Nimic with my partner, doing all the puzzles. That was amazing. Believe me, all those fastruns when group skipped everything... they meant nothing.


If you want a realistic solution for everybody: ask for quest dungeon mode.
ZoS allow and motivate fastruns by design? Require the design that will allow running quest for those, who want questing.
Ask it and ask again. We will be heard.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin please, quest mode for group dungeons is still in community wishlist.
It would solve many frustrations and conflicts.

sans-culottes

Blood_again wrote: »

those horrible malicious fastrunners who disrespected your wish

There is nothing malicious about wanting to complete familiar, low-difficulty content quickly. What is malicious is imputing intent to others—assuming disrespect or sabotage—when the explanation is more likely mundane. Most players have done this content dozens of times and simply want to finish it.

Blood_again

sans-culottes wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

those horrible malicious fastrunners who disrespected your wish

There is nothing malicious about wanting to complete familiar, low-difficulty content quickly. What is malicious is imputing intent to others—assuming disrespect or sabotage—when the explanation is more likely mundane. Most players have done this content dozens of times and simply want to finish it.

Dude, in the whole comment you've chosen one single dramatic fragment and started arguing with it?!
Dude, read at least the whole paragraph, I beg you

Desiato

This is 100% on ZOS for not updating old dungeon quests.

Shortly after ESO launched, they obviously realized there was a problem with how they structured dungeon quests because they changed how they designed new dungeons -- so that each step auto-completes without a required interaction with an NPC.

So why haven't they gone back to update the original dungeon quests that can break if an npc interaction is missed or someone rushes ahead?

Furthermore, in DLC dungeons, it can be extremely stressful to wait for the quest to become available. We shouldn't have to wait for the NPCs to complete their introductions before taking the quests.

The kind of inconsiderate player who won't wait for quests isn't likely to change, but ZOS can change the game to mitigate the frustration they can currently cause.

Also, to be clear, IMO, 99% of the quest concerns is just about the skill point. Most players who complain that they can't complete the quest don't expect others to wait for them to read the dialog options. They just want to complete the required interactions so they can complete the quest at the end and get the skill point. (especially now because skill points are about to become more valuable.)

Asikoo

Blood_again wrote: »

OP I feel your pain. It is awful when you try to do a quest, but other players rush through.
But your request is unrealistic. Dungeon reward is designed to motivate people to fastrun. Fastrun will never be a bannable action, if no exploit or bug were used.

If you want a realistic solution for you: run the dungeon quests with friends.
It is not fair, sure. It won't bring you that satisfaction, probably.
But, if you wish running the dungeon quest - you'll manage to do it that way.
If you wish some revenge toward those horrible malicious fastrunners who disrespected your wish - just leave it. Be a realist.

Whis week I ran Nimic with my partner, doing all the puzzles. That was amazing. Believe me, all those fastruns when group skipped everything... they meant nothing.


If you want a realistic solution for everybody: ask for quest dungeon mode.
ZoS allow and motivate fastruns by design? Require the design that will allow running quest for those, who want questing.
Ask it and ask again. We will be heard.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin please, quest mode for group dungeons is still in community wishlist.
It would solve many frustrations and conflicts.

Sadly, I completely disagree with you. ESO multiplayer game design is about "joining others and completing content together."

The game has evolved over the years, we've gotten more powerful items, and because of that, the content has become easier to complete. That’s the only reason players are able to skip mechanics and do speed runs.

But in any case, this is NOT how the game is meant to be played. I bet ZOS doesn’t advertise or promote this kind of gameplay when trying to attract new players. If ZOS doesn't advertise this type of gameplay to attract new players, why do they even allow it?

RealLoveBVB

Asikoo wrote: »

But in any case, this is NOT how the game is meant to be played.

How is it meant?

Because i don't want to roleplay every dungeon, where I just need the final boss for weapon set pieces.

Asikoo

Teabagging is not an action that leads to an automatic ban. It becomes a problem when someone uses it to simulate a sexual act toward another player. For it to be considered a bannable offense, the person affected usually has to report it and clearly express that the behavior is unwanted—something like, “Please don’t do that.”

If the player continues doing it after being asked to stop, then it can become grounds for disciplinary action by ZOS.

Similarly, if someone says, “Slow down, I have a quest,” other players have a choice: they can stay and play cooperatively, they can leave, or, if they harass or grief others, they should face consequences. That’s what I’m trying to say: we all have options here, and what should take priority is respecting others and allowing everyone to enjoy the game, without making anyone uncomfortable.

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

But in any case, this is NOT how the game is meant to be played.

How is it meant?

Because i don't want to roleplay every dungeon, where I just need the final boss for weapon set pieces.

The ones who just want to skip and rush can leave and play alone or with others who feel the same. New players who just want to complete quests might not be able to play solo and they need others. This isn’t hard to understand!

valenwood_vegan

I run dungeons with premade groups of friends and guildies. There has never been a bad run. Literally, not one run ever where we failed to complete the dungeon or had petty drama or someone in the group didn't achieve the goals they had for the run.

Why? Because we communicated beforehand. The person organizing the run gets to say whether it's going to be a speed run for gear, or a quest run, or an achievement run. People joining get to ask if the group can accommodate their needs and they're free to choose not to join if it's not a good fit. If someone *does* cause issues, the group leader can kick and find a replacement. Randoms do not and will never work this way, so if you want a specific outcome, organize a group.

Sorry this isn't the solution that some want to hear, but this complaint (or the "I got a fake tank or healer" one) gets posted every week and zos has never responded, *ever*, in all the years I've been here and they've never really done nothing except for some minimal progress on updating some of the old dungeon quests and adding the "joining encounter in progress" feature. It's clearly not much of a priority for them.

So by all means, keep complaining and best of luck. I do hope they decide to fix the old quests, at least... it's ridiculous that they haven't. Some sort of quest or story mode has been talked about at times, and might help too, though there's no concrete information on if/when this might happen. I wouldn't hold my breath based on the recent pace of eso's development.

But as for the larger issue, there is never going to be some sort of community agreement on the "right way to always run a dungeon" such that players shall be punished for running it the wrong way. So if you want a specific outcome, organize a group.

Cooperharley

I definitely think that ZOS should create a story mode version with NPCs so players can RP through the quests. Your solution of completely banning someone for completing a dungeon quickly is pretty nuts.

It's a public dungeon queue. If you've completed the quests, there's nothing in there but to complete the dungeon and like others have said, many have their chat turned off with how crazy in-game moderation is currently. You can make the argument either way, but this is the 600th post about this topic. Relying on the goodwill of other players is a very poor idea as you'll always be disappointed. If you want to tailor a situation to how you like it, customize your experience. A random group in a randomized dungeon finder is going to give you a RANDOM experience - some will be nice and wait, others will not have much time to game and will want to complete their dungeon ASAP.

It's not a hard concept to grasp. ZOS is the only entity here that can make a difference and why they have yet to do something is baffling, yet equally unsurprising given their track record with implementing player desires in-game.

RealLoveBVB

Asikoo wrote: »

New players who just want to complete quests might not be able to play solo and they need others. This isn’t hard to understand!

That's what guilds are for. This isn't hard to understand!

Asikoo wrote: »

Similarly, if someone says, “Slow down, I have a quest,” other players have a choice: they can stay and play cooperatively, they can leave, or, if they harass or grief others, they should face consequences. That’s what I’m trying to say: we all have options here, and what should take priority is respecting others and allowing everyone to enjoy the game, without making anyone uncomfortable.

Okay, so when I enter a dungeon and I type "speedrun", then everyone have to adapt?
Can I report everyone who is staying behind?

Cooperharley

The other thing to mention is that people that complain about this are often using the random group finder, which others use for the daily XP gain and 10 transmute crystals per character. So people wanting to rush the dungeon HAVE to use that random group finder for that purpose. If you're just wanting to RP through a dungeon, most are soloable with a companion, unless of course you're new, in which case i'd recommend asking a guildie, posting a group listing, or keeping your fingers crossed and rolling the dice in the random group finder.

Desiato

I want to add my 2c about the purpose of the dungeon finder.

The purpose isn't just to facilitate speed runs for transmutes. It's kind of the opposite. ZOS incentivizes the dungeon finder with a big random queue bonus so there is enough dungeon finder activity for players looking for dungeon pugs for other reasons -- like skill points and gear grinding.

So it's completely fair to queue into the dungeon finder with the hope of completing a quest for the skill point and exp, and I don't think it's too much to ask other players to wait a moment here and there because that's essentially what is earning them the transmute crystals when it's complete.

Likewise, the guy there for the skill point should also be considerate when they join a popular farming dungeon like Falkreath Hold and respect others may want to complete it as quickly as possible because the gear grind can be brutal. I don't like ever skipping trash because I hate being stuck in combat, but I know when Falkreath comes up, that's probably how it's going to go.

Asikoo

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Okay, so when I enter a dungeon and I type "speedrun", then everyone have to adapt?
Can I report everyone who is staying behind?

Is anyone below level 50 supposed to be able to complete speed runs? But other players should help those below level 50, or anyone just trying to complete a quest in a normal dungeon. By the way, in all my comments, I'm only talking about Normal Dungeons.

Come on, mate, you're better than that.

Northwold

I don't play group dungeons but just to point out that some people play with chat closed so they wouldn't necessarily see people asking to wait. Not sure you should be banning for that.

Cooperharley

Asikoo wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Okay, so when I enter a dungeon and I type "speedrun", then everyone have to adapt?
Can I report everyone who is staying behind?

Is anyone below level 50 supposed to be able to complete speed runs? But other players should help those below level 50, or anyone just trying to complete a quest in a normal dungeon. By the way, in all my comments, I'm only talking about Normal Dungeons.

Come on, mate, you're better than that.

They're referring to speed runs in the sense of grinding gear as fast as possible. Weapons only drop from the final boss, so you farm normal dungeons on repeat to kill the last boss several times as quickly as possible.

Asikoo

Cooperharley wrote: »

They're referring to speed runs in the sense of grinding gear as fast as possible. Weapons only drop from the final boss, so you farm normal dungeons on repeat to kill the last boss several times as quickly as possible.

Why is your weapon more important than my skill point?
Why do I have to accept your speed run just because you only care about your loot, but you can't wait 10 seconds for me to complete my quest?

Why can't we both just play the game?

Cooperharley

Asikoo wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

They're referring to speed runs in the sense of grinding gear as fast as possible. Weapons only drop from the final boss, so you farm normal dungeons on repeat to kill the last boss several times as quickly as possible.

Why is your weapon more important than my skill point?
Why do I have to accept your speed run just because you only care about your loot, but you can't wait 10 seconds for me to complete my quest?

Why can't we both just play the game?

Dude I promise your post here is not going to change anything. Either accept how it is and move on or do something else idk what to tell you.

It's been this way for close to a decade now. If you see something in U47 that the devs are doing to add a story mode, then that's great. But you're not going to cause ZOS to start banning people for completing a dungeon quicker than you want. It is what it is. Idk what you're trying to achieve here.

tincanman

For the last month with golden pursuit I would imagine it's been quite hard, but not impossible, to pug quests for:

ds1
eh1
coh1
ac

The other dungeons in the golden pursuit list only require you grab the quest and turn it in at the end for the skillpoint.

I expect those ones will calm down in a few days time. Unless, of course, players have become used to shorter run times.

In all cases, though, it is pretty obvious if you want to get the quest/skill point when pugging then you really need to state it at the start of the run.

And, equally, because it's a completely random group of individuals pugging from possibly anywhere in the world with very individual and different objectives, time demands, views on what passes for social etiquette etc., expect absolutely nothing and therefore not be disappointed.

sans-culottes

Asikoo wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

OP I feel your pain. It is awful when you try to do a quest, but other players rush through.
But your request is unrealistic. Dungeon reward is designed to motivate people to fastrun. Fastrun will never be a bannable action, if no exploit or bug were used.

If you want a realistic solution for you: run the dungeon quests with friends.
It is not fair, sure. It won't bring you that satisfaction, probably.
But, if you wish running the dungeon quest - you'll manage to do it that way.
If you wish some revenge toward those horrible malicious fastrunners who disrespected your wish - just leave it. Be a realist.

Whis week I ran Nimic with my partner, doing all the puzzles. That was amazing. Believe me, all those fastruns when group skipped everything... they meant nothing.


If you want a realistic solution for everybody: ask for quest dungeon mode.
ZoS allow and motivate fastruns by design? Require the design that will allow running quest for those, who want questing.
Ask it and ask again. We will be heard.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin please, quest mode for group dungeons is still in community wishlist.
It would solve many frustrations and conflicts.

Sadly, I completely disagree with you. ESO multiplayer game design is about "joining others and completing content together."

The game has evolved over the years, we've gotten more powerful items, and because of that, the content has become easier to complete. That’s the only reason players are able to skip mechanics and do speed runs.

But in any case, this is NOT how the game is meant to be played. I bet ZOS doesn’t advertise or promote this kind of gameplay when trying to attract new players. If ZOS doesn't advertise this type of gameplay to attract new players, why do they even allow it?

There is no “intended” pace in random group content. The system does not enforce one, and never has. Players complete it at the speed that suits them, whether slow or fast. That is the design.

Claiming that speedrunning is “not how the game is meant to be played” is wishful thinking at best. If the system supports it, rewards it, and allows it without exploit, then it is by definition part of how the game can be played.

If your goal is coordinated, story-driven dungeon runs, then that is what premade groups are for. The tools for that already exist.

P.S. “Why is your weapon more important than my skill point?” The better question is, why should the rest of the group be obligated to halt their run for your personal objective? Everyone queued for different reasons. Expecting your priority to override theirs is unreasonable.

Asikoo

Cooperharley wrote: »

Dude I promise your post here is not going to change anything. Either accept how it is and move on or do something else idk what to tell you.

It's been this way for close to a decade now. If you see something in U47 that the devs are doing to add a story mode, then that's great. But you're not going to cause ZOS to start banning people for completing a dungeon quicker than you want. It is what it is. Idk what you're trying to achieve here.

If we all stay silent and say nothing, of course ZOS won’t change anything. But we have this forum to share ideas, express concerns, and agree or disagree with each other.
I know they won’t change the game just because of me, but I created this topic to show, once again, that something isn’t right. Some players will agree with me, others will disagree.

While some keep saying everything is fine, I’ll continue to stand my ground and point out that things are NOT okay.

CameraBeardThePirate

Most dungeons in the game auto complete if you skip parts; only a handful of the base game dungeons don't do this.

Cooperharley

Asikoo wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Dude I promise your post here is not going to change anything. Either accept how it is and move on or do something else idk what to tell you.

It's been this way for close to a decade now. If you see something in U47 that the devs are doing to add a story mode, then that's great. But you're not going to cause ZOS to start banning people for completing a dungeon quicker than you want. It is what it is. Idk what you're trying to achieve here.

If we all stay silent and say nothing, of course ZOS won’t change anything. But we have this forum to share ideas, express concerns, and agree or disagree with each other.
I know they won’t change the game just because of me, but I created this topic to show, once again, that something isn’t right. Some players will agree with me, others will disagree.

While some keep saying everything is fine, I’ll continue to stand my ground and point out that things are NOT okay.

Ok that's fine, but again, banning? For completing a dungeon fast?

How about a real solution like being able to utilize companions or NPCs for a story mode version of dungeons for slow, methodical and RP-based playthroughs? Or how about adding alternative methods for xp and transmute crystal gain along with removing the cap on transmute crystals for ESO+ members for example?

It's not even that your thought process was misguided: the problem several have with your proposed solution is that it's detrimental to a large section of the playerbase when you COULD propose solutions that appease both sides.

No one is saying it isn't annoying. But saying that you're more right than someone else is silly as everyone has different reasons for doing a piece of content and joining a random group of people and demanding / banning them because they're not doing what you want is hilarious. Let's add more methods to tackle the same content to appease multiple groups of people instead? How about that? Yeesh

RealLoveBVB

Asikoo wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

They're referring to speed runs in the sense of grinding gear as fast as possible. Weapons only drop from the final boss, so you farm normal dungeons on repeat to kill the last boss several times as quickly as possible.

Why is your weapon more important than my skill point?
Why do I have to accept your speed run just because you only care about your loot, but you can't wait 10 seconds for me to complete my quest?

Why can't we both just play the game?

I can ask the same questions. Why is your skill point more valuable than someone's loot or time?

Asikoo

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Most dungeons in the game auto complete if you skip parts; only a handful of the base game dungeons don't do this.

And that’s exactly right! So… I want to call ZOS’s attention to this issue so they can fix it, one way or another. We need a solution so players can complete their quests!

tincanman

I guess it doesn't help with 'joining encounter in progress' essentially meaning a single player can determine the rate at which a dungeon is completed.

I don't pug but have seen some weird displacement issues with the 'joining encounter in progress' in, for example, ds1 where, if the group splits and one part goes for 'the hive lord' and the other simultaneously engages the end boss, the whole group gets pulled to first one and then the other boss alternately every couple of seconds. Kind of funny when it happens but a little disorientating the first time you find yourself rubber-banding between the two boss locales.