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(NEW) Winter's Embrace Feedback Post. Update 11.0.3
ESO_Nightingale
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Hi again everyone,
After the release of the 0.3 notes today, i wanted to talk about the change and especially the developer comment we recieved:
Change:
I think it'll be easiest to tell in time whether this change proves to be too strong like ZOS thinks it is. We know that the 0.0 version of piercing cold was pretty undertuned and this change increases it's value by 5% (which is a 50% increase), It's nice to see some tuning done to this passive, but after my initial tests a couple weeks ago, i have a hard time believing that this is going to blow frost damage out of proportion, but it is at least appreciated (at least by me) in the meantime. What's a lot more interesting than this passive change is the developer comment which indicates the intention behind this change.
This is far FAR more exciting to me as someone who's been at the forefront of complaining about frost damage dealing for 8 years (yes I do have a job). Having an actual long term goal in mind for the playstyle is going to do wonders, provided it is actually acted upon and not forgotten about. We will be holding you guys to this.
Now, It's time to unpack what frost damage builds need moving forward and the areas to focus on.
Payoff
The last and most crucial thing that a frost damage dealer needs to actually exist is a Frost Damage payoff/delayed burst damage skill that preferably utilises our insane chilled proc rate as a condition. Also preferably placed within the winter's embrace skill line. Utilising payoff/delayed burst damage skills like Relentless Focus, Subterranean Assault and/or Blighted Blastbones is cool and all, but they don't at all fit the theme we're going for. Tentacular Dread might deal frost damage, but it's very thematically unrelated.
Chilled doing so much damage is awesome and it's great because it incentivises using frost damage skills, however, there's still no actual payoff. you're applying all of this chilled and it is dealing a lot of damage, but there's more damage in other better settups that don't require investment like that. there's 1 thing that winter's embrace damage dealers excel at, and that is applying many individual ticks of chilled within the span of a few seconds, sometimes even less. This is some proper identity. It will feel very good to be able to use that to work towards an even better damage event with visual spectacle and good damage output.
I believe that this, more than anything is what frost damage builds need. but that isn't to discredit the other things i'll list below as i think they're important too.
Side notes:
An Ancient Knowledge DPS passive
Lets face it. the biggest issue with the frost staff is that it has no bonus for damage dealers as it passively is only a weapon for tanks. Piercing Cold has always been compensating for its shortcomings and if the ice staff itself didn't punish you for trying to play as a damage dealer, it wouldn't have to be so inflated to do that. I think the previous iteration of piercing cold changing the bonus based on your max HP was quite a good way of seperating the 2 roles and so i would suggest something similar to be implemented on the frost staff version of ancient knowledge. I've always viewed frost as an element in fantasy that was good at critical strikes and crowd control. while crowd control is cool, it doesn't affect bosses and that therefore heavily cripples the impact you would have on a CC immune target. Critical strikes on the other hand are an excellent damage dealing bonus and always highly sought after. I would love for new players to pick up an ice staff and see that they can make a cool damage build with it instead of reading that they can only side-ways stick hold with it. While i think that its important to keep the ice staff as a tanking weapon, i also think that it's important for the ice staff to fulfil the same role it has in most other fantasy rpgs, that of damage dealing. So, seperating these 2 roles using health pools seems like the most effective way to do this.
Variety of Damage Skills and the compression of underutilised Winter's Embrace morphs
I've always loved the look of Winter's Revenge and Arctic Blast, however, there's a couple of dps skill roles that frost damage has not covered yet. Off the top of my head, the 2 i can think of are that we don't have a Melee Spammable varient, and we don't have an execute, or frost damage skill that scales up in execute. I'd love to see these going forward. especially a melee damage spammable, which i'd love to see on winter's embrace. i had an idea that it'd be cool to compress a morph of frost cloak to have the minor protection and massive group range bonus and have the other be a frost damage melee spammable that grants you major resolve after you use it. It would work very well with arctic blast. I think that Winter's Embrace has a lot of potential to compress morph effects with both frost cloak and frozen gate, allowing 1 morph to do its original role with both benefits active, while allowing another morph to deal some proper damage.
Winter's Embrace is not just simply a Tank line. It's always been a mixture of tanking and damage dealing. Now with the introduction of subclassing and the constant addressing of frost damage dealers, i think it's time to simply rip the band-aid off and acknowledge winter's embrace as a dual purpose line. Frozen Gate does not need 2 morphs to be a niche tank pull because 1 will always underperform the other. I don't believe that's in the spirit of the morph system. The Morph System is at its best with skills like crystal fragments/crystal weapon and bound armaments/bound aegis.
A pure Frost Damage dealer's Monster Helmet or a Mythic Item
There's always been a massive gap between flame damage monster helmets and frost and shock damage ones. Our only currently viable option is Iceheart and while it's proc is solid and looks pretty neat, it's got part of its power budget tied to that damage shield. I would love to see more ideas.
That's it for this week everyone.
thanks for the good communication @ZOS_Kevin. This developer comment was very encouraging to read and i really hope we continue to see more like it, (with some action implemented too)
Edited by ESO_Nightingale on 6 May 2025 07:51 After the release of the 0.3 notes today, i wanted to talk about the change and especially the developer comment we recieved:
Passive Change
Change:
Piercing Cold: Increased this passive's increase to Frost Damage to 7/15%, up from 5/10%.
I think it'll be easiest to tell in time whether this change proves to be too strong like ZOS thinks it is. We know that the 0.0 version of piercing cold was pretty undertuned and this change increases it's value by 5% (which is a 50% increase), It's nice to see some tuning done to this passive, but after my initial tests a couple weeks ago, i have a hard time believing that this is going to blow frost damage out of proportion, but it is at least appreciated (at least by me) in the meantime. What's a lot more interesting than this passive change is the developer comment which indicates the intention behind this change.
Developer Comment
We're temporarily inflating the damage of this passive to influence Frost Damage a bit more aggressively than we'd like, until we can find better long-term solutions (like more sources of Frost Damage in general) for those who wish to wield the cold like a weapon.
This is far FAR more exciting to me as someone who's been at the forefront of complaining about frost damage dealing for 8 years (yes I do have a job). Having an actual long term goal in mind for the playstyle is going to do wonders, provided it is actually acted upon and not forgotten about. We will be holding you guys to this.
Now, It's time to unpack what frost damage builds need moving forward and the areas to focus on.
Frost Damage Dealer Needs (Long Term Solutions)
Payoff
The last and most crucial thing that a frost damage dealer needs to actually exist is a Frost Damage payoff/delayed burst damage skill that preferably utilises our insane chilled proc rate as a condition. Also preferably placed within the winter's embrace skill line. Utilising payoff/delayed burst damage skills like Relentless Focus, Subterranean Assault and/or Blighted Blastbones is cool and all, but they don't at all fit the theme we're going for. Tentacular Dread might deal frost damage, but it's very thematically unrelated.
Chilled doing so much damage is awesome and it's great because it incentivises using frost damage skills, however, there's still no actual payoff. you're applying all of this chilled and it is dealing a lot of damage, but there's more damage in other better settups that don't require investment like that. there's 1 thing that winter's embrace damage dealers excel at, and that is applying many individual ticks of chilled within the span of a few seconds, sometimes even less. This is some proper identity. It will feel very good to be able to use that to work towards an even better damage event with visual spectacle and good damage output.
I believe that this, more than anything is what frost damage builds need. but that isn't to discredit the other things i'll list below as i think they're important too.
Side notes:
On another note regarding this topic, after testing Tentacular Dread, i found that while it does deal some decent damage, that doesn't appear to be its main focus as it's condition of crux is far too slow and restrictive to ever properly function as a frost damage dealer's big "payoff skill". It simply doesn't work as if you wanted to use a (subpar) frost damage spammable at the same time as using Tentacular Dread would require being an arcanist as your base class specifically to get crux generation on chilling soul or knife. I think Tentacular Dread is a great skill, as many new builds are utilising it to amplify their damage, but i don't think it would, or should ever be remolded to fix the purpose we would need, Instead, an unused morph of a Winter's Embrace skill such as Frozen Retreat could be completely reworked to fulfill this role.
Another side note, I once believed that Deep Fissure should be reworked to deal frost damage, along with the rest of animal companions. Now that subclassing exists and lines can now be viewed more individually, I believe that while more powerful frost damage skills would be fantastic, i no longer believe they should be on Animal Companions. Instead i think that Winter's Embrace, Storm Calling and other lines should be more diversified. I'm not the only one to suggest that there should be a mixup of skill lines and that damage passives and utility should be more liberally shared around so as to not invalidate builds not entirely pumping everything to maximise their role's power.
Another side note, I once believed that Deep Fissure should be reworked to deal frost damage, along with the rest of animal companions. Now that subclassing exists and lines can now be viewed more individually, I believe that while more powerful frost damage skills would be fantastic, i no longer believe they should be on Animal Companions. Instead i think that Winter's Embrace, Storm Calling and other lines should be more diversified. I'm not the only one to suggest that there should be a mixup of skill lines and that damage passives and utility should be more liberally shared around so as to not invalidate builds not entirely pumping everything to maximise their role's power.
An Ancient Knowledge DPS passive
Lets face it. the biggest issue with the frost staff is that it has no bonus for damage dealers as it passively is only a weapon for tanks. Piercing Cold has always been compensating for its shortcomings and if the ice staff itself didn't punish you for trying to play as a damage dealer, it wouldn't have to be so inflated to do that. I think the previous iteration of piercing cold changing the bonus based on your max HP was quite a good way of seperating the 2 roles and so i would suggest something similar to be implemented on the frost staff version of ancient knowledge. I've always viewed frost as an element in fantasy that was good at critical strikes and crowd control. while crowd control is cool, it doesn't affect bosses and that therefore heavily cripples the impact you would have on a CC immune target. Critical strikes on the other hand are an excellent damage dealing bonus and always highly sought after. I would love for new players to pick up an ice staff and see that they can make a cool damage build with it instead of reading that they can only side-ways stick hold with it. While i think that its important to keep the ice staff as a tanking weapon, i also think that it's important for the ice staff to fulfil the same role it has in most other fantasy rpgs, that of damage dealing. So, seperating these 2 roles using health pools seems like the most effective way to do this.
Variety of Damage Skills and the compression of underutilised Winter's Embrace morphs
I've always loved the look of Winter's Revenge and Arctic Blast, however, there's a couple of dps skill roles that frost damage has not covered yet. Off the top of my head, the 2 i can think of are that we don't have a Melee Spammable varient, and we don't have an execute, or frost damage skill that scales up in execute. I'd love to see these going forward. especially a melee damage spammable, which i'd love to see on winter's embrace. i had an idea that it'd be cool to compress a morph of frost cloak to have the minor protection and massive group range bonus and have the other be a frost damage melee spammable that grants you major resolve after you use it. It would work very well with arctic blast. I think that Winter's Embrace has a lot of potential to compress morph effects with both frost cloak and frozen gate, allowing 1 morph to do its original role with both benefits active, while allowing another morph to deal some proper damage.
Winter's Embrace is not just simply a Tank line. It's always been a mixture of tanking and damage dealing. Now with the introduction of subclassing and the constant addressing of frost damage dealers, i think it's time to simply rip the band-aid off and acknowledge winter's embrace as a dual purpose line. Frozen Gate does not need 2 morphs to be a niche tank pull because 1 will always underperform the other. I don't believe that's in the spirit of the morph system. The Morph System is at its best with skills like crystal fragments/crystal weapon and bound armaments/bound aegis.
A pure Frost Damage dealer's Monster Helmet or a Mythic Item
There's always been a massive gap between flame damage monster helmets and frost and shock damage ones. Our only currently viable option is Iceheart and while it's proc is solid and looks pretty neat, it's got part of its power budget tied to that damage shield. I would love to see more ideas.
That's it for this week everyone.
thanks for the good communication @ZOS_Kevin. This developer comment was very encouraging to read and i really hope we continue to see more like it, (with some action implemented too)
PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
14
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JazzyNova✭✭✭✭I agree with these statements & notes wholeheartedly. The recent changes to frost gives me a sliver of hope for it's future. For far too long it's been an underutilized element as opposed to fire. Hopefully they do give us more frost damage abilities, especially a spammable for sure and some sets in the future.1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My long term wish is that we could thematically change any skill to Ice Damage (or any other element damage). For example, if I want to run a Dragon Knight (or a Warden with Dragon Knight skill lines), I would want to change Searing Strike to Freezing Strike, or Fiery Breath to Arctic Breath.
It is also important that the skills look thematically like Ice (or whatever element) Skills too. We have Boneyard, a Necromancer Skill, that does frost damage, but it doesn’t look like it is doing Ice damage. The same with Fulminating Rune, it technically does Ice Damage, but it is green flashy stuff. There is nothing that looks thematically icy or frosty with it.
My point is that choice and aesthetics are part of the fun, and I think having more choices and having things that look thematically what we are going for are going to add the most fun. Balance should come into play as well, but if I can do a thematic ice build that looks cool and frosty then I will run it even if it does 5% less damage than other META setups.Playing since beta...10 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭Maybe sorcs will get the same love before everything goes to live and I can have a proper elementalist warden build2 -
LeHarrt91✭✭✭✭✭
✭My long term wish is that we could thematically change any skill to Ice Damage (or any other element damage). For example, if I want to run a Dragon Knight (or a Warden with Dragon Knight skill lines), I would want to change Searing Strike to Freezing Strike, or Fiery Breath to Arctic Breath.
It is also important that the skills look thematically like Ice (or whatever element) Skills too. We have Boneyard, a Necromancer Skill, that does frost damage, but it doesn’t look like it is doing Ice damage. The same with Fulminating Rune, it technically does Ice Damage, but it is green flashy stuff. There is nothing that looks thematically icy or frosty with it.
My point is that choice and aesthetics are part of the fun, and I think having more choices and having things that look thematically what we are going for are going to add the most fun. Balance should come into play as well, but if I can do a thematic ice build that looks cool and frosty then I will run it even if it does 5% less damage than other META setups.
I had mentioned in a discord that, they will probably start to look at adding Grimoires of core class skills now that subclassing is a thing. So thinks like Frost Curse, Blood Blastbones, Lightning Whip etc.PS NA
Have played all classes.
Warden Main1 -
Erickson9610✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My long term wish is that we could thematically change any skill to Ice Damage (or any other element damage). For example, if I want to run a Dragon Knight (or a Warden with Dragon Knight skill lines), I would want to change Searing Strike to Freezing Strike, or Fiery Breath to Arctic Breath.
It is also important that the skills look thematically like Ice (or whatever element) Skills too. We have Boneyard, a Necromancer Skill, that does frost damage, but it doesn’t look like it is doing Ice damage. The same with Fulminating Rune, it technically does Ice Damage, but it is green flashy stuff. There is nothing that looks thematically icy or frosty with it.
My point is that choice and aesthetics are part of the fun, and I think having more choices and having things that look thematically what we are going for are going to add the most fun. Balance should come into play as well, but if I can do a thematic ice build that looks cool and frosty then I will run it even if it does 5% less damage than other META setups.
I had mentioned in a discord that, they will probably start to look at adding Grimoires of core class skills now that subclassing is a thing. So thinks like Frost Curse, Blood Blastbones, Lightning Whip etc.
I hope they add new Grimoires for Class skill lines, now that anybody can Subclass into any other Class skill line.
Before Subclassing, it didn't make sense to release 7 new Grimoires when any one character would only be able to use 1 — but now each time a Grimoire is made for one of each Class's skill lines, each character is effectively getting 3 they can use at a single time.PC/NA — Lone Werewolf, the EP Templar Khajiit Werewolf
Werewolf Should be Allowed to Sneak
Please give us Werewolf Skill Styles (for customizing our fur color), Grimoires/Scribing skills (to fill in the holes in our builds), and Companions (to transform with).2 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I came up with some fun ideas i'd like to see
Morph of Frost Cloak (existing morph effects on this morph would be combined with the other frost cloak morph)
(used ai to make the icon for this)
Morph of Frozen Gate (existing morph effects on this morph would be combined with the other frozen gate morph)
Edited by ESO_Nightingale on 7 May 2025 10:37PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX3 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My long term wish is that we could thematically change any skill to Ice Damage (or any other element damage). For example, if I want to run a Dragon Knight (or a Warden with Dragon Knight skill lines), I would want to change Searing Strike to Freezing Strike, or Fiery Breath to Arctic Breath.
It is also important that the skills look thematically like Ice (or whatever element) Skills too. We have Boneyard, a Necromancer Skill, that does frost damage, but it doesn’t look like it is doing Ice damage. The same with Fulminating Rune, it technically does Ice Damage, but it is green flashy stuff. There is nothing that looks thematically icy or frosty with it.
My point is that choice and aesthetics are part of the fun, and I think having more choices and having things that look thematically what we are going for are going to add the most fun. Balance should come into play as well, but if I can do a thematic ice build that looks cool and frosty then I will run it even if it does 5% less damage than other META setups.
I had mentioned in a discord that, they will probably start to look at adding Grimoires of core class skills now that subclassing is a thing. So thinks like Frost Curse, Blood Blastbones, Lightning Whip etc.
That would actually be awesomePvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX4 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Erickson9610 wrote: »My long term wish is that we could thematically change any skill to Ice Damage (or any other element damage). For example, if I want to run a Dragon Knight (or a Warden with Dragon Knight skill lines), I would want to change Searing Strike to Freezing Strike, or Fiery Breath to Arctic Breath.
It is also important that the skills look thematically like Ice (or whatever element) Skills too. We have Boneyard, a Necromancer Skill, that does frost damage, but it doesn’t look like it is doing Ice damage. The same with Fulminating Rune, it technically does Ice Damage, but it is green flashy stuff. There is nothing that looks thematically icy or frosty with it.
My point is that choice and aesthetics are part of the fun, and I think having more choices and having things that look thematically what we are going for are going to add the most fun. Balance should come into play as well, but if I can do a thematic ice build that looks cool and frosty then I will run it even if it does 5% less damage than other META setups.
I had mentioned in a discord that, they will probably start to look at adding Grimoires of core class skills now that subclassing is a thing. So thinks like Frost Curse, Blood Blastbones, Lightning Whip etc.
I hope they add new Grimoires for Class skill lines, now that anybody can Subclass into any other Class skill line.
Before Subclassing, it didn't make sense to release 7 new Grimoires when any one character would only be able to use 1 — but now each time a Grimoire is made for one of each Class's skill lines, each character is effectively getting 3 they can use at a single time.
i will say it'd be weird to see how this would work at the same time as class skill skins existing.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
LeHarrt91✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah it would need to be looked into but would be cool to see frost versions of classic class skillsPS NA
Have played all classes.
Warden Main0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah it would need to be looked into but would be cool to see frost versions of classic class skills
i had an idea that it would be cool to see an icy crystal fragments, since the proc itself is already a crystal, it could theoretically recieve a frosty looking appearance with minimal effort, simply a bit of texture work as well as a bit of particle and sound effect work. it would be similar for crystal weapon but i think that one might take a bit more effort.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
cuddles_with_wroble✭✭✭✭✭Let’s be honest, the correct choice is either to go full in on warden being ice based or just remove the skill line and make an actual frost mage class. The frost skill line on the warden is so out of place when it’s supposed to be a Druid and idk why we can’t just have a full Druid and then make a true ice mage which literally everyone wants1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »Let’s be honest, the correct choice is either to go full in on warden being ice based or just remove the skill line and make an actual frost mage class. The frost skill line on the warden is so out of place when it’s supposed to be a Druid and idk why we can’t just have a full Druid and then make a true ice mage which literally everyone wants
I don't think this matters as much as it used to nowPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
necro_the_crafter✭✭✭✭✭cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »Let’s be honest, the correct choice is either to go full in on warden being ice based or just remove the skill line and make an actual frost mage class. The frost skill line on the warden is so out of place when it’s supposed to be a Druid and idk why we can’t just have a full Druid and then make a true ice mage which literally everyone wants
tbh, back before morrowinds release, I was dead sure that first dlc class they relese would be a necromancer and necros main thing would be frost dps.
Also, wardens really deserve better. Instead of being morrowind fan servise, i would love to see each line represent different "school" of druidism between alliances:
First line is ashland druid, with cliff racer, netches, shalks - pretty much animal companions, maybe make swarm and bird of prey more "vvanderfellic", and swap bear for kagouti or smth.
Second line is bosmer druid with tree based spells, which is green balance but maybe with some adjustmest to make it more bosmer thematicly.
And for the last - breton/systres druid, with elemental magic fire/ice/shock based spells, which is current winters embrase but mith more elemental diversity.Edited by necro_the_crafter on 11 May 2025 18:261 -
robpr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or just leave Warden alone and vote for a proper frost dps class/skill line rather than trying shoehorning a line intended for tanking to do damage. Stamden already lost Winter's Revenge to require a desto and Piercing Cold damage passive.
Warden's damage come from animal companions line and leave it be - just give us a proper frost damage skill line.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Or just leave Warden alone and vote for a proper frost dps class/skill line rather than trying shoehorning a line intended for tanking to do damage. Stamden already lost Winter's Revenge to require a desto and Piercing Cold damage passive.
Warden's damage come from animal companions line and leave it be - just give us a proper frost damage skill line.
I'm not sure how realistic that is. It would be awesome to see a whole elementalist class drop though so we can scavenge its lines to make pure element dps builds.
Agreed with winter's revenge though. That needs to lose the destro requirement and just straight up always do +30% more damage. The destruction staff requirement did not work out for piercing cold.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well thats it folks. See you next cycle.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭necro_the_crafter wrote: »cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »Let’s be honest, the correct choice is either to go full in on warden being ice based or just remove the skill line and make an actual frost mage class. The frost skill line on the warden is so out of place when it’s supposed to be a Druid and idk why we can’t just have a full Druid and then make a true ice mage which literally everyone wants
tbh, back before morrowinds release, I was dead sure that first dlc class they relese would be a necromancer and necros main thing would be frost dps.
Also, wardens really deserve better. Instead of being morrowind fan servise, i would love to see each line represent different "school" of druidism between alliances:
First line is ashland druid, with cliff racer, netches, shalks - pretty much animal companions, maybe make swarm and bird of prey more "vvanderfellic", and swap bear for kagouti or smth.
Second line is bosmer druid with tree based spells, which is green balance but maybe with some adjustmest to make it more bosmer thematicly.
And for the last - breton/systres druid, with elemental magic fire/ice/shock based spells, which is current winters embrase but mith more elemental diversity.
It's possible they'll add animal types as skill skins.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
SpiritKitten✭✭✭✭✭So they nerfed polar wind 33% (and in other ways) and then they nerfed northern storm 33%. What's up with that? What's that 33% magic number for?
I am now using 3 winter's embrace and 3 scribing skills for my dps frost warden.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SpiritKitten wrote: »So they nerfed polar wind 33% (and in other ways) and then they nerfed northern storm 33%. What's up with that? What's that 33% magic number for?
I am now using 3 winter's embrace and 3 scribing skills for my dps frost warden.
Well 33% is 1/3 so there's that.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Awesome Nightingale!
Personally I'd like to see Frost Heavy attacks be channeled like lighting.
For the graphic I imagine 7 frost shards shooting fast (like the mage abilty Arcane Missles in WOW), with a little "tink/thud" sound as each one hits with the 7th having an ice shattering sound for the final tick."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes6 -
Cooperharley✭✭✭✭✭
✭My long term wish is that we could thematically change any skill to Ice Damage (or any other element damage). For example, if I want to run a Dragon Knight (or a Warden with Dragon Knight skill lines), I would want to change Searing Strike to Freezing Strike, or Fiery Breath to Arctic Breath.
It is also important that the skills look thematically like Ice (or whatever element) Skills too. We have Boneyard, a Necromancer Skill, that does frost damage, but it doesn’t look like it is doing Ice damage. The same with Fulminating Rune, it technically does Ice Damage, but it is green flashy stuff. There is nothing that looks thematically icy or frosty with it.
My point is that choice and aesthetics are part of the fun, and I think having more choices and having things that look thematically what we are going for are going to add the most fun. Balance should come into play as well, but if I can do a thematic ice build that looks cool and frosty then I will run it even if it does 5% less damage than other META setups.
I think this would make me happier rather than depending on ZOS to make good balance changes and weapon changes as it's been fairly evident that they take egregiously long to do any of that.
I'd love to see them simply add frost and lightning variants to all elemental skills from a skill style perspective, but when you apply these, renaming the skills as Luna said here and changing the icon to show frost or shock would be dope. Think about it - all the dragons you have encountered can be frost or shock oriented, so why can't dragonknight skills?PS5-NA. For The Queen!0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Cooperharley wrote: »My long term wish is that we could thematically change any skill to Ice Damage (or any other element damage). For example, if I want to run a Dragon Knight (or a Warden with Dragon Knight skill lines), I would want to change Searing Strike to Freezing Strike, or Fiery Breath to Arctic Breath.
It is also important that the skills look thematically like Ice (or whatever element) Skills too. We have Boneyard, a Necromancer Skill, that does frost damage, but it doesn’t look like it is doing Ice damage. The same with Fulminating Rune, it technically does Ice Damage, but it is green flashy stuff. There is nothing that looks thematically icy or frosty with it.
My point is that choice and aesthetics are part of the fun, and I think having more choices and having things that look thematically what we are going for are going to add the most fun. Balance should come into play as well, but if I can do a thematic ice build that looks cool and frosty then I will run it even if it does 5% less damage than other META setups.
I think this would make me happier rather than depending on ZOS to make good balance changes and weapon changes as it's been fairly evident that they take egregiously long to do any of that.
I'd love to see them simply add frost and lightning variants to all elemental skills from a skill style perspective, but when you apply these, renaming the skills as Luna said here and changing the icon to show frost or shock would be dope. Think about it - all the dragons you have encountered can be frost or shock oriented, so why can't dragonknight skills?
Frost dps being a playstyle relies both on visuals and gameplay. Say what you will about tuning since that's variable, but the playstyle has never truely been complete without a payoff frost damage skill.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on 19 May 2025 09:49PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've decided to mention this post in a video i'm going to make on frost dps in general.
gonna cover the stuff i mentioned here as well as additional information like sets like ysgram being awful, frostbite being bugged etc.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX4 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I've decided to mention this post in a video i'm going to make on frost dps in general.
gonna cover the stuff i mentioned here as well as additional information like sets like ysgram being awful, frostbite being bugged etc.
Adding into this, I'm finalising my script. Gonna start recording background gameplay tonight.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
LeHarrt91✭✭✭✭✭
✭Overall there is still work to be done with frost builds (and many other builds) but we have some new skills to combo together with subclassing.PS NA
Have played all classes.
Warden Main0 -
daemondamian✭✭✭✭I just rebuilt my frost warden on the PTS (you can see it here though it's not updated for PTS).
I tired to incorporate as many Winter's Embrace abilities as possible, use double ice staffs & experimented with Hrothgar's Chill & Frostbite but in the end only used Ice Fortress on one bar and Northern Storm on the other.
Why? My first build using double ice staves & multiple WE abilities was fine for solo normal Bloodroot Forge but not great for normal Lep Seclusa.
Frost alone & the WE abilities just didn't put out enough damage even with the chilled status, Polar Wind healing wasn't effect & I had terrible sustain.
Gripping Shards for example (on my final setup) has a tooltip of 9648* whereas Chilling Burst is 28510* (plus gives Minor Courage) and Chilling Trample 14,315* but that's with caltrops physical damage of 1510* whereas lingering torment can do 8900* more frost damage (plus I put in off-balance).
Eye of Frost has a tooltip of 45,248* while Northern Storm has one of 36,496* (I know though it also gives the increase of damage done).
*this was after casting all abilities for buffs.
A Lightning staff one bar gave those skills higher damage tooltips as well as being easier to use because it locks on to targets & a frost weapon glyph along with the charged trait still gave frost damage.
I was originally using the Gravelord skill line too for Graveyard & 10% DOT passive but the Animal Companions skill line gave more damage, better integration & passives.
Additionally I used Herald of the Tome for Tentacular Dread - frost damage & damage increase & Recuperative Treatise to get more W/S damage, Crit damage & healing, increased status effect damage & chance & penetration.
TLDR:
Winter's Embrace is helpful for making a solo frost warden but by itself & supplemented purely with frost staves and related weapon skill lines &/or frost focused sets ineffective at least for me & having a build that is fun to play & not a struggle.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭daemondamian wrote: »I just rebuilt my frost warden on the PTS (you can see it here though it's not updated for PTS).
I tired to incorporate as many Winter's Embrace abilities as possible, use double ice staffs & experimented with Hrothgar's Chill & Frostbite but in the end only used Ice Fortress on one bar and Northern Storm on the other.
Why? My first build using double ice staves & multiple WE abilities was fine for solo normal Bloodroot Forge but not great for normal Lep Seclusa.
Frost alone & the WE abilities just didn't put out enough damage even with the chilled status, Polar Wind healing wasn't effect & I had terrible sustain.
Gripping Shards for example (on my final setup) has a tooltip of 9648* whereas Chilling Burst is 28510* (plus gives Minor Courage) and Chilling Trample 14,315* but that's with caltrops physical damage of 1510* whereas lingering torment can do 8900* more frost damage (plus I put in off-balance).
Eye of Frost has a tooltip of 45,248* while Northern Storm has one of 36,496* (I know though it also gives the increase of damage done).
*this was after casting all abilities for buffs.
A Lightning staff one bar gave those skills higher damage tooltips as well as being easier to use because it locks on to targets & a frost weapon glyph along with the charged trait still gave frost damage.
I was originally using the Gravelord skill line too for Graveyard & 10% DOT passive but the Animal Companions skill line gave more damage, better integration & passives.
Additionally I used Herald of the Tome for Tentacular Dread - frost damage & damage increase & Recuperative Treatise to get more W/S damage, Crit damage & healing, increased status effect damage & chance & penetration.
TLDR:
Winter's Embrace is helpful for making a solo frost warden but by itself & supplemented purely with frost staves and related weapon skill lines &/or frost focused sets ineffective at least for me & having a build that is fun to play & not a struggle.
I had a look at your build and frankly i'm confused as to your role. you were playing this in dungeons and solo? this seems to be geared entirely for solo.
you're not using arctic blast (other morph of polar wind) or winter's revenge (other morph of gripping shards) and i fail to understand why. these 2 abilities are literally the cornerstone of winter's embrace dps builds. you need them because of the damage they do through not only their tooltips but because of the insane chilled proc rates they have, you need to utilise these abilities. polar wind is a tank heal based on max hp and gripping shards does its damage based on max health.
the item sets you're using are honestly hurting you more than helping. i wouldn't recommend sea serpents coil due to the nasty snare and while aetherial ascension gives you more armor than fortified brass, it cripples your stamina by making important actions like rolling and blocking cost 20% more.
what is your main damage dealing bar? backbar or frontbar? because i can see a spammable on the same bar as your infused ground aoe dot bar which is not normally how people build. chilling trample is frankly not good at all and i fail to see why you're using it. i also see a severe lack of proper crux generation for tentacular dread to be worthwhile.Edited by ESO_Nightingale on 28 May 2025 09:20PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
daemondamian✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »daemondamian wrote: »I just rebuilt my frost warden on the PTS (you can see it here though it's not updated for PTS).
I tired to incorporate as many Winter's Embrace abilities as possible, use double ice staffs & experimented with Hrothgar's Chill & Frostbite but in the end only used Ice Fortress on one bar and Northern Storm on the other.
Why? My first build using double ice staves & multiple WE abilities was fine for solo normal Bloodroot Forge but not great for normal Lep Seclusa.
Frost alone & the WE abilities just didn't put out enough damage even with the chilled status, Polar Wind healing wasn't effect & I had terrible sustain.
Gripping Shards for example (on my final setup) has a tooltip of 9648* whereas Chilling Burst is 28510* (plus gives Minor Courage) and Chilling Trample 14,315* but that's with caltrops physical damage of 1510* whereas lingering torment can do 8900* more frost damage (plus I put in off-balance).
Eye of Frost has a tooltip of 45,248* while Northern Storm has one of 36,496* (I know though it also gives the increase of damage done).
*this was after casting all abilities for buffs.
A Lightning staff one bar gave those skills higher damage tooltips as well as being easier to use because it locks on to targets & a frost weapon glyph along with the charged trait still gave frost damage.
I was originally using the Gravelord skill line too for Graveyard & 10% DOT passive but the Animal Companions skill line gave more damage, better integration & passives.
Additionally I used Herald of the Tome for Tentacular Dread - frost damage & damage increase & Recuperative Treatise to get more W/S damage, Crit damage & healing, increased status effect damage & chance & penetration.
TLDR:
Winter's Embrace is helpful for making a solo frost warden but by itself & supplemented purely with frost staves and related weapon skill lines &/or frost focused sets ineffective at least for me & having a build that is fun to play & not a struggle.
I had a look at your build and frankly i'm confused as to your role. you were playing this in dungeons and solo? this seems to be geared entirely for solo.
you're not using arctic blast (other morph of polar wind) or winter's revenge (other morph of gripping shards) and i fail to understand why. these 2 abilities are literally the cornerstone of winter's embrace dps builds. you need them because of the damage they do through not only their tooltips but because of the insane chilled proc rates they have, you need to utilise these abilities. polar wind is a tank heal based on max hp and gripping shards does its damage based on max health.
the item sets you're using are honestly hurting you more than helping. i wouldn't recommend sea serpents coil due to the nasty snare and while aetherial ascension gives you more armor than fortified brass, it cripples your stamina by making important actions like rolling and blocking cost 20% more.
what is your main damage dealing bar? backbar or frontbar? because i can see a spammable on the same bar as your infused ground aoe dot bar which is not normally how people build. chilling trample is frankly not good at all and i fail to see why you're using it. i also see a severe lack of proper crux generation for tentacular dread to be worthwhile.
Sorry I thought I put at the beginning of the description that it was a solo build but I didn't mention that until the end. Obviously it was based on what made me more survivable and not on dps.
I didn't chose artic blast because that only heals if you don't damage any enemies and I wanted a bigger heal that would heal regardless of whether it hit an enemy.
Yes Winter's Revenge probably would have had a higher tooltip than gripping shards seeing as it's based on offensive stats rather than max health - I only chose it because it wasn't a fixed ground cast and some of the bosses move a lot in Lep Seclusa (my reason for choosing Eye of the Storm over the other morph) and I was already using elemental blockade to proc a weapon damage glyph.
Yes I know there's not enough crux being generated to have tentacular dread at it's maximum damage but maximum dps wasn't my goal - %5 damage increase overall, frost damage, immobilisation and benefits of having it slotted were enough for me,
I've tried lots of different sets and combinations as I like to solo content and I'm aware of the stamina issue except I've always negated that by using the survival instincts cp (which I did put in the build) leaving me with a 5% cost decrease in core combat skills.
I know some solo builds focus on maximum dps and ring of the pale order (or not) but I prefer not to have to be (for lack of a better term and not meaning to cause offense as different people play differently) a sweat lord - I could have made a build that would have done the content solo much faster and more efficiently but it was fast enough for me.
So I like being around the resistance cap rather than depending purely on heals and highest dps.
I understand the snare issue and for many builds I've used Velothi instead but on a few including this one I found SSC fine for normal Bloodroot Forge and normal Lep Seclusa.
Usually I do do a backbar with buffs and weapon ground aoe dot for proccing the weapon damage enchantment glyph. I'm not using the spammable purely as a spammable here but as a long distance finish off on low health targets and or to set an enemy off balance and chilling trample also sets enemies off balance as well as does frost damage, has physical damage that could proc a status effect or if not at least reduces enemy speed.
In combination with Exploiter I get 10% extra damage if an enemy is off balance and heavy attacks restore more resources and yes I know bosses have an immunity phase and you don't get a 100% uptime of off balance on bosses.
Obviously my choices suit my playstyle for soloing content and there are other choices out that will make more sense in terms of efficiency and maximum dps and soloing things like vet hardmode March of Sacrifices for other people who can do that but I'm just happy to solo dungeons on normal, 'solo' IA with Azandar and solo other content like Bastion Nymic and world bosses and I what I do works for me.
If I want to queue for a group dungeon (even on normal just for the daily) I use a meta healer build and choose the role of healer.0
