(NEW) Winter's Embrace Feedback Post. Update 11.0.3

ESO_Nightingale

daemondamian wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

daemondamian wrote: »

I just rebuilt my frost warden on the PTS (you can see it here though it's not updated for PTS).

I tired to incorporate as many Winter's Embrace abilities as possible, use double ice staffs & experimented with Hrothgar's Chill & Frostbite but in the end only used Ice Fortress on one bar and Northern Storm on the other.

Why? My first build using double ice staves & multiple WE abilities was fine for solo normal Bloodroot Forge but not great for normal Lep Seclusa.

Frost alone & the WE abilities just didn't put out enough damage even with the chilled status, Polar Wind healing wasn't effect & I had terrible sustain.

Gripping Shards for example (on my final setup) has a tooltip of 9648* whereas Chilling Burst is 28510* (plus gives Minor Courage) and Chilling Trample 14,315* but that's with caltrops physical damage of 1510* whereas lingering torment can do 8900* more frost damage (plus I put in off-balance).

Eye of Frost has a tooltip of 45,248* while Northern Storm has one of 36,496* (I know though it also gives the increase of damage done).

*this was after casting all abilities for buffs.

A Lightning staff one bar gave those skills higher damage tooltips as well as being easier to use because it locks on to targets & a frost weapon glyph along with the charged trait still gave frost damage.

I was originally using the Gravelord skill line too for Graveyard & 10% DOT passive but the Animal Companions skill line gave more damage, better integration & passives.

Additionally I used Herald of the Tome for Tentacular Dread - frost damage & damage increase & Recuperative Treatise to get more W/S damage, Crit damage & healing, increased status effect damage & chance & penetration.

TLDR:
Winter's Embrace is helpful for making a solo frost warden but by itself & supplemented purely with frost staves and related weapon skill lines &/or frost focused sets ineffective at least for me & having a build that is fun to play & not a struggle.

I had a look at your build and frankly i'm confused as to your role. you were playing this in dungeons and solo? this seems to be geared entirely for solo.

you're not using arctic blast (other morph of polar wind) or winter's revenge (other morph of gripping shards) and i fail to understand why. these 2 abilities are literally the cornerstone of winter's embrace dps builds. you need them because of the damage they do through not only their tooltips but because of the insane chilled proc rates they have, you need to utilise these abilities. polar wind is a tank heal based on max hp and gripping shards does its damage based on max health.

the item sets you're using are honestly hurting you more than helping. i wouldn't recommend sea serpents coil due to the nasty snare and while aetherial ascension gives you more armor than fortified brass, it cripples your stamina by making important actions like rolling and blocking cost 20% more.

what is your main damage dealing bar? backbar or frontbar? because i can see a spammable on the same bar as your infused ground aoe dot bar which is not normally how people build. chilling trample is frankly not good at all and i fail to see why you're using it. i also see a severe lack of proper crux generation for tentacular dread to be worthwhile.

Sorry I thought I put at the beginning of the description that it was a solo build but I didn't mention that until the end. Obviously it was based on what made me more survivable and not on dps.

I didn't chose artic blast because that only heals if you don't damage any enemies and I wanted a bigger heal that would heal regardless of whether it hit an enemy.

Yes Winter's Revenge probably would have had a higher tooltip than gripping shards seeing as it's based on offensive stats rather than max health - I only chose it because it wasn't a fixed ground cast and some of the bosses move a lot in Lep Seclusa (my reason for choosing Eye of the Storm over the other morph) and I was already using elemental blockade to proc a weapon damage glyph.

Yes I know there's not enough crux being generated to have tentacular dread at it's maximum damage but maximum dps wasn't my goal - %5 damage increase overall, frost damage, immobilisation and benefits of having it slotted were enough for me,

I've tried lots of different sets and combinations as I like to solo content and I'm aware of the stamina issue except I've always negated that by using the survival instincts cp (which I did put in the build) leaving me with a 5% cost decrease in core combat skills.

I know some solo builds focus on maximum dps and ring of the pale order (or not) but I prefer not to have to be (for lack of a better term and not meaning to cause offense as different people play differently) a sweat lord - I could have made a build that would have done the content solo much faster and more efficiently but it was fast enough for me.

So I like being around the resistance cap rather than depending purely on heals and highest dps.

I understand the snare issue and for many builds I've used Velothi instead but on a few including this one I found SSC fine for normal Bloodroot Forge and normal Lep Seclusa.

Usually I do do a backbar with buffs and weapon ground aoe dot for proccing the weapon damage enchantment glyph. I'm not using the spammable purely as a spammable here but as a long distance finish off on low health targets and or to set an enemy off balance and chilling trample also sets enemies off balance as well as does frost damage, has physical damage that could proc a status effect or if not at least reduces enemy speed.

In combination with Exploiter I get 10% extra damage if an enemy is off balance and heavy attacks restore more resources and yes I know bosses have an immunity phase and you don't get a 100% uptime of off balance on bosses.

Obviously my choices suit my playstyle for soloing content and there are other choices out that will make more sense in terms of efficiency and maximum dps and soloing things like vet hardmode March of Sacrifices for other people who can do that but I'm just happy to solo dungeons on normal, 'solo' IA with Azandar and solo other content like Bastion Nymic and world bosses and I what I do works for me.

If I want to queue for a group dungeon (even on normal just for the daily) I use a meta healer build and choose the role of healer.

i think your build choices are the reason you're having trouble.

you should have enough healing on your build that you dont need to worry about arctic blast's healing, it's not the reason you take that skill. you take it for its damage output, frankly i would swap echoing vigor to resolving vigor, it's gonna give you minor resolve which will help with dropping aetherial ascension as well as providing you insane burst healing per second. if thats not enough for you, that's an issue of your weapon and spell damage scaling.

a 5% offset to your massively increased drain because of aetherial ascension is no-where near enough. there's much better sets you could run in this regard, i feel like you're hurting yourself significantly without even realising it.

daemondamian

If the 'trouble' that I'm having is that I'm not using 'bread and butter' warden frost skills that other people are, on my solo frost warden despite having a build that actually works for me (is survivable, not hard to play, puts out enough damage that combat goes at a decent pace) then I'm fine with that.

I do have enough healing in my build as it is now and as stated so I'm unsure why you're repeating the point about arctic blast - I didn't take the skill because it's not a healing skill - it's a damage skill.

I usually use resolving vigour on builds that need the minor resistance, I didn't need it. Echoing is adequate with the burst heal of healing contingency and the heals from the passive healing for using animal companion skills.

Aetherial Ascension increases the cost of block, sprint, dodge and break free by 20%, the survival instincts cp reduces the cost of core combat abilities (when affected by a status effect) by 25%. Therefore this combination can reduce my core combat skills cost by 5% and is not a drain.

I've used the Aetherial Ascension, Bahsei's Mania and SSC combination on a few other of my builds I did recently including a NB with Assassination, Ardent Flame and Storm Calling that I soloed a Mirrormoor Incursion on, on the PTS, last night and the SSC snare was no problem and nor did I run out of stamina (and yes I'm aware minor slayer only works in dungeons and trials not overland).

ESO_Nightingale

daemondamian wrote: »

If the 'trouble' that I'm having is that I'm not using 'bread and butter' warden frost skills that other people are, on my solo frost warden despite having a build that actually works for me (is survivable, not hard to play, puts out enough damage that combat goes at a decent pace) then I'm fine with that.

I do have enough healing in my build as it is now and as stated so I'm unsure why you're repeating the point about arctic blast - I didn't take the skill because it's not a healing skill - it's a damage skill.

I usually use resolving vigour on builds that need the minor resistance, I didn't need it. Echoing is adequate with the burst heal of healing contingency and the heals from the passive healing for using animal companion skills.

Aetherial Ascension increases the cost of block, sprint, dodge and break free by 20%, the survival instincts cp reduces the cost of core combat abilities (when affected by a status effect) by 25%. Therefore this combination can reduce my core combat skills cost by 5% and is not a drain.

I've used the Aetherial Ascension, Bahsei's Mania and SSC combination on a few other of my builds I did recently including a NB with Assassination, Ardent Flame and Storm Calling that I soloed a Mirrormoor Incursion on, on the PTS, last night and the SSC snare was no problem and nor did I run out of stamina (and yes I'm aware minor slayer only works in dungeons and trials not overland).

Alright man, more power to you. I thought when you said "Why? My first build using double ice staves & multiple WE abilities was fine for solo normal Bloodroot Forge but not great for normal Lep Seclusa.

Frost alone & the WE abilities just didn't put out enough damage even with the chilled status, Polar Wind healing wasn't effect & I had terrible sustain"
That you wanted to figure out why that was and the answer is that you're not using the right morphs or sets. If you didn't want help then i misunderstood the point of your post.

daemondamian

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

daemondamian wrote: »

If the 'trouble' that I'm having is that I'm not using 'bread and butter' warden frost skills that other people are, on my solo frost warden despite having a build that actually works for me (is survivable, not hard to play, puts out enough damage that combat goes at a decent pace) then I'm fine with that.

I do have enough healing in my build as it is now and as stated so I'm unsure why you're repeating the point about arctic blast - I didn't take the skill because it's not a healing skill - it's a damage skill.

I usually use resolving vigour on builds that need the minor resistance, I didn't need it. Echoing is adequate with the burst heal of healing contingency and the heals from the passive healing for using animal companion skills.

Aetherial Ascension increases the cost of block, sprint, dodge and break free by 20%, the survival instincts cp reduces the cost of core combat abilities (when affected by a status effect) by 25%. Therefore this combination can reduce my core combat skills cost by 5% and is not a drain.

I've used the Aetherial Ascension, Bahsei's Mania and SSC combination on a few other of my builds I did recently including a NB with Assassination, Ardent Flame and Storm Calling that I soloed a Mirrormoor Incursion on, on the PTS, last night and the SSC snare was no problem and nor did I run out of stamina (and yes I'm aware minor slayer only works in dungeons and trials not overland).

Alright man, more power to you. I thought when you said "Why? My first build using double ice staves & multiple WE abilities was fine for solo normal Bloodroot Forge but not great for normal Lep Seclusa.

Frost alone & the WE abilities just didn't put out enough damage even with the chilled status, Polar Wind healing wasn't effect & I had terrible sustain"
That you wanted to figure out why that was and the answer is that you're not using the right morphs or sets. If you didn't want help then i misunderstood the point of your post.

No worries

ESO_Nightingale

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I've decided to mention this post in a video i'm going to make on frost dps in general.

gonna cover the stuff i mentioned here as well as additional information like sets like ysgram being awful, frostbite being bugged etc.

Adding into this, I'm finalising my script. Gonna start recording background gameplay tonight.

Finally finished the video

https://youtu.be/7sPWtbESFrQ

RisKKR

I'm definitely on board with them doing something really different with a Frozen Gate morph - I have actually never seen this skill used outside of PvP trolling...

They also need to address the fact that the worst heal in the entire game is in the Winter's Embrace skill line too - Arctic Blast. I made a post about it but a condition on our only viable class burst heal is pure insanity. Hopefully they finally address it, as it's been useless as a heal for nearly a year now since the change.

Pixiepumpkin

At this point I have given up on making a vet worthy Frost Mage. It's not gonna happen. Not hard to make it happen, but there is little to no real exectution taking place to solidify frost as a viable playstyle in ESO.

ESO_Nightingale

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

At this point I have given up on making a vet worthy Frost Mage. It's not gonna happen. Not hard to make it happen, but there is little to no real exectution taking place to solidify frost as a viable playstyle in ESO.

Honestly its not too bad that you cant do vet content with it.

NoSoup

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

At this point I have given up on making a vet worthy Frost Mage. It's not gonna happen. Not hard to make it happen, but there is little to no real exectution taking place to solidify frost as a viable playstyle in ESO.

Honestly its not too bad that you cant do vet content with it.

Nightingale, have you tested the crafted set that applies the weapon status effect with every light attack, effectively letting you apply chilled with every ice staff light attack?

ESO_Nightingale

NoSoup wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

At this point I have given up on making a vet worthy Frost Mage. It's not gonna happen. Not hard to make it happen, but there is little to no real exectution taking place to solidify frost as a viable playstyle in ESO.

Honestly its not too bad that you cant do vet content with it.

Nightingale, have you tested the crafted set that applies the weapon status effect with every light attack, effectively letting you apply chilled with every ice staff light attack?

Yeah i did test it and i remember it not being particularly great. It's more of a frontbar set so it was in contention with master ice which is too strong to give up.

ArchMikem

We're temporarily inflating the damage of this passive to influence Frost Damage a bit more aggressively than we'd like, until we can find better long-term solutions (like more sources of Frost Damage in general) for those who wish to wield the cold like a weapon.

More sources of Frost Damage doesn't help Ice themed damage dealers whatsoever, when all those sources will have lower damage outputs than their Fire and Lightning cousins. My Warden already deals with sustain issues with subpar dps just trying to cast as many Frost damage abilities as possible.

ZhuJiuyin

Try looking at this builds, I found that using forzen in the backbar can do decent damage due to the buff of Piercing Cold at U46, and the original buff of Chilled by Glacial Presence.
This builds has about 52% of frost damage, good sustain, lots of aoe damage, and high-damage ranged finishers.




Although I didn't play it very well due to ping, I think the Piercing Cold buff in U46 does make the frost theme better.

ESO_Nightingale

ArchMikem wrote: »

We're temporarily inflating the damage of this passive to influence Frost Damage a bit more aggressively than we'd like, until we can find better long-term solutions (like more sources of Frost Damage in general) for those who wish to wield the cold like a weapon.

More sources of Frost Damage doesn't help Ice themed damage dealers whatsoever, when all those sources will have lower damage outputs than their Fire and Lightning cousins. My Warden already deals with sustain issues with subpar dps just trying to cast as many Frost damage abilities as possible.

more sources in general only matters when those sources are good with good auxillary effects. yes.

SpiritKitten

The Polar Wind changes from PTS are not in the Live patch notes.