Sub-classing and the freedom to play anything but werewolf (PTS)

huskandhunger · May 1

@ZOS_Icy @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin can werewolf skill line get some love with quality of life adjusting and maybe a scribing ability thrown in for good measure? We have been falling behind ever since our original 10,000 unique armor bonus was converted to major resolve like any human player can get. Our burst ability Roar can easily be dodged, it's damage scaling at each rank and damage has been outright lowered. Claws of Life doesnt heal us due to Battlespirit passive, so we have just our expensive burst heal forcing us to have limited build options beyond high health tank styles. We are trying to gain your attention to lend us a modicum of greater build expression and flexibility so we can make better use of all the hundreds of sets you have made for us to use. It is also why the werewolf community desperately is asking for a scribing ability because with the impending subclassing release, there will be no reason to build a werewolf anymore because we don't offer anything unique a player may already obtain. Please read through our comments and concerns to raise with the rest of the dev team. Thank you.

huskandhunger · May 1

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

So.... how about those werewolf double spec bows? Could you imagine.

@ZOS_RichLambert since Nightblade is being given a double spectral arrow, can werewolf get a double piercing howl please? We would love to have an actual burst damage capability that is impactful to that level. For example, it could work like this: every third Piercing Howl ignores all physical resistances perhaps and does 100% bonus damage. This way werewolf could somewhat obtain an ability on par with an ultimate. ✌️

dark_hunterxmg · May 1

huskandhunger wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

So.... how about those werewolf double spec bows? Could you imagine.

@ZOS_RichLambert since Nightblade is being given a double spectral arrow, can werewolf get a double piercing howl please? We would love to have an actual burst damage capability that is impactful to that level. For example, it could work like this: every third Piercing Howl ignores all physical resistances perhaps and does 100% bonus damage. This way werewolf could somewhat obtain an ability on par with an ultimate. ✌️

Having an ability that can hit a player for more than 2-3k would be pretty handy.

JaxontheUnfortunate · May 1

We just need to set the wall in fire

L33T_BEANS · May 1

WW is okay in PVP is probably why they won't buff it.

You used to be able to play them with Relequens + blood moon, and get a decent enough 80-90k single-target damage. But honestly they're a low effort class, 1-bar gameplay, their damage shouldn't even be comparable to a real damage dealer.

Low effort class should always do mediocre damage only, so people with higher skill have a reason to do better. Arcanists should be nerfed by this logic, and I wish they were. But for some reason ZOS thinks it's good to have a player with 50 casts-per-minute, be better than a highly skilled Nightblade with a CPM of 120.

But I'll agree, I don't hate WW, it has a place. Any low effort class, with proper gear setups and buffs, should be able to hit at least 80-90k on an Iron Atronach. While the higher CPM and complex builds, hitting between 100-120k depending on skill. Perhaps even with WW being uniquely good in some niche situations for some fun roleplay reasons (like a boss just being weak to bleed damage or something).

But honestly, I just don't think this is ZOS' playbook. Just go play Stamina Arcanist like everyone else, and turn your brain off as your class dies.

Erickson9610 · May 1

L33T_BEANS wrote: »

WW is okay in PVP is probably why they won't buff it.

I've done duels on the PTS with Werewolf against people who were Subclassing. Werewolf is not decent in PvP anymore, regardless of whether you go full glass cannon or full troll tank. Werewolf isn't easy to play, especially when it lacks essential tools that every competitive player has now.

And that's not even mentioning PvE, where you'll be kicked out of groups before you have the chance to prove your DPS. Werewolf's DPS is primarily single target, has a complicated rotation which requires you to be at full health and stationary at melee range while renewing buffs every 10 or 20 seconds, all to get about 40k DPS less than the AoE damage dealer meta.

...but for casuals? Sure, Werewolf can feel fun. Maybe that's all that matters in the end.

AlterBlika · May 1

I'd like to see some easy reworks like bringing back flat resistances instead of major resolve so you'd be a bit tankier, rework that burst magicka heal to burst stamina heal (scribing provides that). This would help pvp and solo play at least. As for group pve I don't think any one-bar builds should be on par with two-bar ones.

Too bad they forgot about werewolves and vampires already.

Erickson9610 · May 1

AlterBlika wrote: »

As for group pve I don't think any one-bar builds should be on par with two-bar ones.

I'd accept Werewolf being given a 2nd ability bar! That way werewolves wouldn't be penalized during the Relequen fight in Cloudrest.

dark_hunterxmg · May 2

L33T_BEANS wrote: »

WW is okay in PVP is probably why they won't buff it.

You used to be able to play them with Relequens + blood moon, and get a decent enough 80-90k single-target damage. But honestly they're a low effort class, 1-bar gameplay, their damage shouldn't even be comparable to a real damage dealer.

Low effort class should always do mediocre damage only, so people with higher skill have a reason to do better. Arcanists should be nerfed by this logic, and I wish they were. But for some reason ZOS thinks it's good to have a player with 50 casts-per-minute, be better than a highly skilled Nightblade with a CPM of 120.

Is werewolf okay in pvp? That's news to me. You must play it a lot more than I do.
1-bar doesn't necessarily equal "low effort." Having a limited tool kit means that in order to perform well, a significant amount of effort is required for that build to work. No werewolf can just throw on a some damage sets or damage + recovery sets and call it a day. It has to be min/max to the limit in order to compete at all. Werewolf is a long way from performing anywhere close to a meta build.

sneakymitchell · May 2

To this day werewolf still hasn’t had any major buffs because devs don’t want us to be one bar build

Oh wait there is a mythic for that…..

IncultaWolf · May 2

sneakymitchell wrote: »

To this day werewolf still hasn’t had any major buffs because devs don’t want us to be one bar build

Oh wait there is a mythic for that…..

There's a new mythic and you can parse 103k one bar doing nothing but holding down left mouse button, no abilities required to be pressed 😂

silky_soft · May 2

Open up second bar. Assault, support, undaunted, soul and associated scribing skills. There is no class identity anymore so why not let the wolf have some fun.

Silaf · May 2

Werewolf need a rework like the vampire. We know in the lore multiple transformations exist. The game should add some styiling fot the ultimate or polymorph to change the aspect.

We can have werebears, argonian behemoth and similar looks.
Seeing a khajiit turn into a dog still disturbe me so please add a werelion too.

huskandhunger · May 2

I think a scribing ability option would do wonders for werewolf skill line.

Erickson9610 · May 2

Silaf wrote: »

Werewolf need a rework like the vampire. We know in the lore multiple transformations exist. The game should add some styiling fot the ultimate or polymorph to change the aspect.

We can have werebears, argonian behemoth and similar looks.
Seeing a khajiit turn into a dog still disturbe me so please add a werelion too.

As long as those other werebeasts are optional. I want to be a werewolf at all times.

ColoniaCroisant · May 2

While the conversation is up, Werewolf class sets in infinite archives would be nice too. Just give us something thematic that boosts our DPS to be competitive or a set that lets Tanks pull enemies in with howl or something. Hell if you don't want to do it in the archive just replace some existing overland sets that nobody uses anyway!

Cooperharley · May 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

This is what it looks like to see a group talking at a brick wall. Werewolf is a relic and will never be back. Best to just accept that and walk away from the wall (it won't respond)

If nobody will voice the concerns we have, then nobody will hear it.

(I'm hoping for werewolf changes as well)

However, the constant silence from ZOS and any communication on this point speak volumes. It's been that way for a while. Very bizarre

huskandhunger · May 2

Cooperharley wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

This is what it looks like to see a group talking at a brick wall. Werewolf is a relic and will never be back. Best to just accept that and walk away from the wall (it won't respond)

If nobody will voice the concerns we have, then nobody will hear it.

(I'm hoping for werewolf changes as well)

However, the constant silence from ZOS and any communication on this point speak volumes. It's been that way for a while. Very bizarre

@ZOS_Kevin would there be anything you can share with us regarding this topic?

Serophous · May 5

L33T_BEANS wrote: »

WW is okay in PVP is probably why they won't buff it.

You used to be able to play them with Relequens + blood moon, and get a decent enough 80-90k single-target damage. But honestly they're a low effort class, 1-bar gameplay, their damage shouldn't even be comparable to a real damage dealer.

Low effort class should always do mediocre damage only, so people with higher skill have a reason to do better. Arcanists should be nerfed by this logic, and I wish they were. But for some reason ZOS thinks it's good to have a player with 50 casts-per-minute, be better than a highly skilled Nightblade with a CPM of 120.

But I'll agree, I don't hate WW, it has a place. Any low effort class, with proper gear setups and buffs, should be able to hit at least 80-90k on an Iron Atronach. While the higher CPM and complex builds, hitting between 100-120k depending on skill. Perhaps even with WW being uniquely good in some niche situations for some fun roleplay reasons (like a boss just being weak to bleed damage or something).

But honestly, I just don't think this is ZOS' playbook. Just go play Stamina Arcanist like everyone else, and turn your brain off as your class dies.

One Bar Heavy Attack Sorcerer exists and does better than werewolf

Darkness734 · May 14

@ZOS_Kevin any updates for werewolves?

Orbital78 · May 14

WW could use some love in PVE, but then how to do that without making them even more OP in PVP?

Erickson9610 · May 15

Orbital78 wrote: »

WW could use some love in PVE, but then how to do that without making them even more OP in PVP?

Are they OP in PvP? It's been my experience that werewolves don't perform well in PvP unless they're with a group that has dedicated healers (literally any build performs well when you have the numbers and healing supplied to you though).

After Subclassing, everyone's going to have such a sharp edge over the best werewolf build, too. There'd be no competition in a 1v1.

the1andonlyskwex · May 15

@ ing devs over longstanding balance concerns is super rude. They read the forums anyway and don't need direct harassment. If they wanted to change WW, they would have done it by now.

JaxontheUnfortunate · May 15

Exactly I expect that if any positive change is made to werewolf something equally valuable will be removed and/or negatively changed.

Erickson9610 · May 15

I think that Werewolf could use more quality of life changes, as well as some adjustments to their abilities. I don't think ZOS has to take anything away to add to Werewolf, and I think they may have a list of planned changes for Werewolf that they haven't finished working on yet.

JaxontheUnfortunate · May 16

Perhaps and I agree they don’t have to take anything away but recent history it seems like they do.

dark_hunterxmg · May 17

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

@ ing devs over longstanding balance concerns is super rude. They read the forums anyway and don't need direct harassment. If they wanted to change WW, they would have done it by now.

Nobody is harassing anyone. We're trying to have a conversation.

Erickson9610 · May 18

I'm really hoping Werewolf gets something in Update 47. Since Scribing will be free by then, I'd totally love to get a Werewolf Grimoire that update.

YandereGirlfriend · May 18

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm really hoping Werewolf gets something in Update 47. Since Scribing will be free by then, I'd totally love to get a Werewolf Grimoire that update.

Werewolf and Vampire grimoires would be super cool! And skill styles!

Erickson9610 · May 18

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'm really hoping Werewolf gets something in Update 47. Since Scribing will be free by then, I'd totally love to get a Werewolf Grimoire that update.

Werewolf and Vampire grimoires would be super cool! And skill styles!

Yeah! I'm glad Vampire is finally getting their own Skill Styles in Update 46 (after Werewolf got their first and only one in Update 43) and I can't wait to see what new abilities each skill line will get to have with new Grimoires given to them. I'm also hoping Werewolf gets another Skill Style soon — hopefully for the transformation itself.