Feedback Thread for Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)

Jestir

-Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
absolutely no issues there

-Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Generally good, none of the usually desync issues I normally see, although when things get extremely busy I did get a bit of skills not going off, weapon swapping not happening and the such but still find it far better than live

-What you think of the simplified abilities?
I like them but obviously the balance is poor and the lack of build variety sucks some fun from the game. I desperately need a non-cast time spammable on Sorc and the vengeance version of overload is incredibly inconsistent/awkward to properly weave on a controller

-What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)? Do you have any general feedback?
Cyrodiil is so much more fun when the battles feel like a war with massive numbers and no single person can solo tank half the server. While as you know the balance is awful and it feels pretty bad to not have any build diversity (gear sets and skill choice mainly), I will say that this test successfully highlights what most people love about the AvAvA in this game.

I really hope we get what y'all need to make the normal alliance war feel like a war once again

Marronsuisse

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Marronsuisse wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

• Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

I won't be able to play for a couple days so no feedback yet, but just so I understand before hopping in, what does a character becoming "corrupted" entail, and how would we know? Does it mean you aren't able to log back in on that character? And is it something fixable on ZOS's end?

Just means if something specific happens to your character being able to play or engage with the test. So if you try logging out of the test and it doesn't log you out properly. Nothing like your character is in a state that is perma-broken. I know the term "corrupted" sounds a lot worse than it should in this context.

Thanks for the clarification! "Corrupted" does sound scary, haha. Glad it's not, in this context.

Morvan

I did get some lag a few times, but it is definitely much better in terms of performance, tons of people around in a fight and the game still went smooth most of the time.

I will say though, this test was definitely successful in identifying the issue, but the solution might turn into a different problem, we can't solve PvP performance by getting rid of gear and most skills, so the solution still need to be debated and properly addressed.

Like many have suggested over the years, maybe this is an opportunity to make PvP its own thing, rebalance all skills in PvP in a way they won't overload performance, and instead of getting rid of sets, make PvP have its own gear, that way PvP can still have theory crafting with different builds but all more lightweight for a better performance.

Most of ESO sets could be transitioned to this "PvP-only" system, it could be an opportunity to revamp forgotten sets and make them relevant in that type of content.

If done properly, ZOS can both help PvP performance AND get rid of the great challenge that is balancing PvE and PvP together, with PvP having its own skills and gear, we can make all classes relevant in both types of content since you won't have the burden of PvE balance affecting it, and vice versa.

Kappachi

"What you think of the simplified abilities?"

My thoughts: if I wanted simplified PvP abilities/changed things like specific PvP sets then I would play the SPvP of Guild Wars 2. One thing that makes ESO PvP so unique is all the different sets/builds/spellcrafting/etc we can do. It feels like an incredibly unique experience that no other games PvP can really match. Please don't simplify the combat for Cyrodiil going forward...

katorga

*Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes, multiple 3 faction battles, my guess around 200-300 players total.

*Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

At first yes, but I had a lot of instances of the old "macro slice" where I would queue up skills with nothing seeming to happen then boom, they all landed at once on target.

Performance was below normal for me. I stay locked at 4K resolution 60fps, no matter what, on Greyhost. In vengeance I was dipping into the 40's. Ping was lower 50-60s vs the 83-100ms that I have on GH. Generally GH performance is excellent for me, minus the odd ball group that can desync a 41m radius or crash players out.

Fun? Not really. Movement and skill speed felt like vanilla WoW. The first ride to a keep with big battles, whoa, felt like walking.

It was cool to see big fights like 10 years ago, and it was really nice not seeing rush of agony bombers,

*What you think of the simplified abilities?

NB was OP, sorc not so much. Will try all the other classes tonight. Overall simplified abilities are pretty boring after about an hour.

tbh, as soon as I max my Gold Pursuit tonight, I'll probably sit the rest of the test out.

Lags

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
of course.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
of course. but there is still lag on occasion. nowhere near as bad as before, and nowhere near as often, but it still happens. delay mainly.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
Im not a fan. At all. Some skills being a little different in pvp is not a bad idea, maybe with battle spirit or something, but this is way too much. And way too simplified. I think the idea has potential though.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
I think @React summed it up pretty well in his post, as he usually does. I share many similar opinions so i wont list all of them here. But in general i am not a fan. I like how the game feels similar to how it did early on. One of the best things about eso used to be how the little things matter. They still do, but nowhere near as much. Managing your resources, really thinking about the choices you make in combat. The fact that people cant get carried by certain things is also a plus.

That being said, i think the sacrifice is too high. I think the bad outweighs the good. Maybe there is a middle ground, im not sure. Things in this game have been dumbed down so much from where they were 5+ years ago and this is the peak of that. Its incredibly boring and goes against everything eso is meant to be. The freedom to play how you want. To make a build that you want, test it, learn it, and play with it. I mean making builds has always been such a massive part of eso and especially pvp and this is literally the opposite of that. This is just very simple loadouts.

Do you have any general feedback?

I think some people may like this at first. Especially the people that mainly like zerging or large scale fights. But i think even those people would get very bored very fast. I think people are enjoying the fact that there are more people in cyrodiil and there is waaaay less lag at these large scale fights. I mean thats all most of us ever wanted. To be able to play cyrodiil as it was meant to be played without the crippling lag. And as ive always said, i dont think thats asking for much. But not at the cost of everything else. If some things have to be adjusted to get there then i understand but something like this is just way too over the top. This isnt why i play eso and thats the same for many others.

All i know is if you completely change cyrodiil to something like this it would be the worst thing to ever happen to pvp in eso. If you add in a perma camp similar to this, while keeping the old ones, it could possibly work. I have no idea if people will play it. But some people wanted no proc no cp, and then it just killed no cp forever. And if you guys add this as another camp and then pretend performance isnt an issue anymore, that would be very unfortunate.

Im very happy to see you guys are trying to improve cyrodiil. I just hope you understand how opposite this is from everything many of us love about cyrodiil. And that this isnt just to see if people will play something like this, and is to actually try and improve the cyrodiil we currently have. Which is what many of us though the test was for. But at this point im not sure.

Edit; I was thinking. Wouldn't it have been more beneficial to separate this test? Like 1 week a no CP campaign. The next week no sets. The next week simplified skills. Or even each one for a few days? Wouldnt that have given more data to pin point what is actually causing these issues? Because removing everything at once will obv make performance greatly improve, but how does that help you pin down what is causing it?

SeaGtGruff

* Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, I was able to engage in several large-scale battles.

* Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Yes, large-scale battles felt good as far as latency and combat responsiveness.

* What you think of the simplified abilities?
I didn't participate much in the PTS test and don't remember whether the abilities in this live test are identical to the ones that were on the PTS, but these simplified abilities are definitely going to take some getting used to, since I tend to press specific keys to fire off specific types of abilities (1 for single-target, 2 for multi-target/AOE, 3 for DOT/debuff, 4 for self-heal, and 5 for buff/miscellaneous). I'll need to spend more time reviewing the available choices to see which of the available skills best fit each of those types, but I found myself pressing certain keys reflexively out of habit, only to realise in some cases that I didn't have the expected skill type slotted for that particular key/number.

* Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
No, I didn't experience anything like that.

* What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
It's been pretty fun so far-- zergalicious.

* Do you have any general feedback?
It seemed difficult for any given alliance to gain and maintain a good foothold on the map, most likely due to the number of players on each side, but possibly also because none of the alliances could coordinate group attacks that rely heavily on gear set procs, so the various sides seemed more evenly matched. Aside from that, the lack of any CP buffs was painful, such as jumping off of a ledge while mounted because I was trying to reach a keep in a hurry, only to die from fall damage that I hadn't been expecting.

robertlabrie

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Sure, I ran over to Arri with 100+ DC and died over and over again vs 100+ EP. Didn't feel any different gameplay wise. I did not repec for the abilities tho.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Same as before

What you think of the simplified abilities?

N/A

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

No, pleasantly surprised actually.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

I PVDoor, which was impossible. 1 siege per person and I think the cap was still 20 except now it's vs 100 ppl makes taking doors a lot harder The repair pts per kit wasn't reduced either so you spend a lot more time breaking down a door against resistance and they can rep it back just as fast. There is both Imperial City and Battle Grounds for the 1vMillon crowd this is just ruining Cyrodiil.

Einar_Hrafnarsson

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes plenty and sometimes i had massive framedrops while I usually played on 100FPS+ easily on the old campaigns. Otherwise its super fun!

What you think of the simplified abilities?

Its actually quite nice to have a smaller selection that also give Class identity back. Wouldn't mind the Cosmetics for them though. (and faster mount speed)

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

As mentioned i did have big FPS drops and my Game Froze completely once and i had to end task in the task manager.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

I love it. No more Ball groups, no more rediculously overpowered Gear Sets. I was done with ESO and just came back to test this. Now i might stay a while longer.

Do you have any general feedback?

The queue at prime time is extremely long (Waited nearly an hour). We need a second campaign.
Would also love faster Mount speed back and maybe the Skill costumizations.

DoofusMax

To the first couple of questions on large-scale battles, yes and several of them over the course of a couple of hours. Small bits of lag here and there (button-press with about a quarter-second or half-second delay on it actually firing), but it was generally pretty smooth, lots of maneuverability, and I didn't notice anything graphically glitching even with very large numbers of players running about.

The jury is still out on the simplifed abilities, but I like the underlying idea on first impressions.

I didn't notice any character corruption and I did have a full crash in the middle of a siege (on the defending side if that matters). This seems to be a persistent issue and I'm more inclined to suspect problems on the local machine than server-side issues. But there weren't any lingering issues after rebooting and logging in again. The character was no longer in Cyrodiil and had respawned at the location where they first entered the campaign.

As a side-note on that, the character's reentry was on a several-minute queue, so they ran off to do other stuff while waiting. The queue popped just as they were getting pounced in a PvE zone. They exited the campaign via wayshrine after that foray, but I'd be a bit worried had they crashed, been booted, lagged out, or otherwise needed to respawn at their last PvE location.

On the whole, I enjoyed being in the middle of those massive battles. I can't say that I'm a fan of having to respawn and travel back again, but that's kind of the way Cyrodiil and IC work and it is what it is. The infinite supplies were an interesting feature. I was able to load up my quickslot wheel upon entering without having to worry about buying them, running out, or having to reslot my PvE stuff after leaving. They were still slotted after reentering the campaign this morning and I was able to jump right back into the thick of it again.

Although I was able to get in with a short Covenant queue times this morning, there was a massive queue this evening. I was about #220 in the Dominion queue when I first tried to get in. I gave it up as a lost cause about a half-hour later and there were still over 100 players in front of me. While it's not a huge issue for me aside from having to find something to do while working my way up the queue, this is going to be VERY problematic for players who have limited time to play. Couple that with Golden Pursuits which are exclusively tied to being able to get into Cyrodiil with only one campaign on PC and I can just about guarantee that you'll be hearing a lot of complaints.

EDIT (3/26): an oddball thing I noticed last night was that I consistently got a notification about "this feature is disabled" when summoning my mount. For this particular toon, the only things I can think of which are different from any other toons is that they have the randomized mount set rather than summoning the same mount each time and I think they are the only toon with the Steed mundus boon.They are not wearing Adept Rider but might have Gifted Rider slotted. It's not affecting anything other than the "bonk" sound effect when mounting, but it was worth pointing out.

MincMincMinc

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes I was in multiple 100-200 player battles with no server delay or input loss issues.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Hell yeah, without a question. Combat felt on point response wise.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
The simplified abilities fulfill their role. I think the problem is the selection to choose from. We need weapon skill lines and guild skill lines to also be streamlined. If you want morphs back in the game please limit morphs to a defining ONE choice that is performative. Like increased duration or tooltip or less cost.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

• This proves that the hardware serverside is fine.
• FPS issues show that animations and particle effects should be addressed. Simple skills like spammables are too flashy compared to game changing ultimates
• Solo v Team dynamic is only winning by numbers. There needs to be skills like sunshield or sap essence or draw essence. You need access to skills that level the playingfield when out numbered. YES you need "unfair" skills. The problem is that good players will do crazy stuff with these skills, however they are necessary for low to mid tier players to be able to log in and play solo. Otherwise those low and mid tier players will NEVER LOG IN.
• No proc effect sets are the greatest blessing. Ideally for skill based combat we would have no damage/heal/debuff proc sets. Gear sets should only aim to buff the player who is wearing them. Hundings is fine, clever alch is fine.... rush of agony is not, viper is not, tarnished is not.
• No absurd movement speed buff stacking is great, vengeance doesnt seem to have players bouncing between 0 and 200% movement speed.
• CC abilities are easier to see and actual counterplay seems feasible. Please prioritize these animations instead of flashy DLC proc set animations.

Do you have any general feedback?
Please for the love of god do not make a half assed vengeance campaign that never gets played. You have to commit to creating streamlined pvp skills and reworking your server structure. Ideally I think 2 or 3 7 day faction locked campaigns is all you need.
Focus on pvp incentives, perhaps ones that translate to outside of pvp. Example being XP buffs if you have tier rewards on the home campaign.

stonelisticub17_ESO

Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:
Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles? Yes with a group and without a group.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)? No latency on the NA US side of things. Combat was very responsive.

What you think of the simplified abilities? Easy to slot specific abilities on both bars. One for Offense and the other for Defense with a mix of survivability-heals and purges.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? Currently, no character corruption from player res timeout or zoning out of Cyrodiil.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1jiym9y/loving_the_vengeance_campaign/
Vengeance is a BLAST. I was all over the Cyrodiil map; in and out of groups, taking keeps, towns, resources, and PvP slaying peeps of all factions; even laid down a few siege weapons here and there. It felt like a true Cyrodiil campaign! On top of this, I don't normally enjoy Cyrodiil for the PvP action.

Do you have any general feedback? Only feedback I find is the lack of mount speed.

xFocused

Listen.

I understand this is a feedback thread and should be treated as such but it’s the first day of this live testing and let’s be honest, the PvP side of this game very rarely gets the attention and support that it has desperately needed for years now.

I understand we all have concerns with the balancing but one thing at a time. I’m just happy the devs are finally putting forward something that’ll hopefully improve Cyrodiil as whole and get the PvP side of this game back to where it should be.

Stay positive everyone

merevie

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes -3 way Arrius -rode into and away from it
Nice to use a horse.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Combat still had a delay on skills, but skills went out.
There was subtle visual staggering.
Siege rendered (which it hasn't for years) and one could roll away before it hit.
I was not getting health desyncs and mysterious what the hell happened full health to no health deaths.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
I played 9 years ago and reverted to that class and bars. The class problems are as they were then so we can pressure each class. E.g. mag DK is known to have poor resources. The balance nerfs made for a very unbalanced class matchup. E.g. the changes to stamplar pvp means it is a shadow of its old self in Veng and getting dumped on.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
No issues.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
The OG players are having a great time ripping everyone else to pieces. Great fun indeed. Near unstoppable on my fav class.

Do you have any general feedback?
Yeah. Same old. Pack of Ad with mostly healers came around the flank and the map stuttered hard.
I don't like playing with ridiculous health as it leads to sloppy playing and decision making.
Zerging also leads to low skill, which leads to complaining when people actually fight someone and get killed etc.
Also why is there a queue if everyone's going in to stress test?
I play a lot solo and small man, with some ball group on the side. I want to be able to mix things up and this set skill thing is the antithesis of that. I'm going to play this to get off some satisfying kills on the troll tankers and ball group immortals who crutch on sets. But otherwise, what Joy Div and React have already said applies.

PS The queue has been stuck at 23 for the last half hour -then it got stuck 'leaving queue'. Having to reload the game.

BaronSalmon

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes - they were glorious.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Had great, fluid and responsive combat, which was very fun.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
Obviously great if we kept morphs but understand the need to simplify so not a huge impediment. Weapon skill lines I feel are crucial as healers really rely on the restoration staff skill line and are a crucial part of the PVP experience.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
No.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
Brilliant idea and it's brought Cyrodiil back to life again with huge battles and sieges without performance issues.

Do you have any general feedback?
Please let us have max mount speed (if there is the need to simplify) as Cyrodiil is a very big map.

blktauna

I was in it on PC EU today just about the beginning of their primetime.

>Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, several, It was like the old days.

>Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Latency wise... Well I did have a lot of stall and skill delay but far less than usual. I also didn't get the combat bug.

>What you think of the simplified abilities?
Not bad actually. I liked the single focus of the skills, IE no health, damage recovery combos on it, it is damage, healing or recovery only. That's how it should be.

>Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

no. Nothing like that.

>What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
I'm enjoying it. Everyone is on a fairly even footing and there's no busted nonsense getting abused. I couldn't get into PCNA primetime, the queue was too long.

Do you have any general feedback?
Yes. Several people in the campaign were obviously unaware of how the campaign worked. There was some panic and whinging about no poisons, food, skills etc. Some manner of instruction should be included. The mount speed is also slow.

Joy_Division

Are we back to AoE caps? And why?

I am asking because I noticed on my Templar and Sorcerer, all my AoE abilities were limited to 3 (!) players. Three! That's the old AoE cap on steroids.

I am also asking because I stood on a Chalman breech with 25 other mates, got hit by like 4 Necro smashes and other assorted AoE spam, and my health bar hardly moved.

React

Joy_Division wrote: »

Are we back to AoE caps? And why?

I am asking because I noticed on my Templar and Sorcerer, all my AoE abilities were limited to 3 (!) players. Three! That's the old AoE cap on steroids.

I am also asking because I stood on a Chalman breech with 25 other mates, got hit by like 4 Necro smashes and other assorted AoE spam, and my health bar hardly moved.

This actually is the worst part of the test, imo. AOE caps on damaging skills are bad, full stop. But a cap of THREE? Actual insanity. Instantly kills small scale, and turns large scale pvp into nothing other than a siege spam simulator where the greater numbers win every time. Makes it feel like you have no impact whatsoever on any large scale or outnumbered fight and sucks the fun straight out of grouping up with your friends.

kiwi_tea

Background: Played on PCNA with NZ ping (c200ms) with no add-ons on a Necromancer for several hours.

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
I saw some very, very large battles.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Much more responsive skills. Generally a huge performance bump, but the combat was much, much less fun. In particular it felt like a pure numbers game. It would be helpful if there were more incentives for smaller skirmishes within the context of huge keep fights - eg, some fixed siege weapons to contest, or power up sigils like those in BGs. Anything to spread battles out and disincentivise boring stacks of doom.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
Mixed feelings. They seem to make the lack of balance between classes substantially worse. Lots of classes suddenly lack core PVP needs like good HoTs, burst heals, detects (for lack of potions), cleanses, etc.
On the other hand, the lack of pets is welcome. The mobility of Templar skills is welcome. It's very hard to assess the abilities in their current state because the classes are so utterly unbalanced. With some balance passes, it would be much easier to say yay or nay with confidence.

Also, while I initially assumed the damage caps on AOE would be great, the immediate "stacks of doom" playstyle that has emerged, combined with the lack of fire ballista has me less supportive of a cap now. A coordinated but outnumbered group of defenders in a keep have too little counterplay to a big group. In the past they could whittle big groups onto camp timer and turn a fight, but that feels much less feasible now.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

My character was not corrupted. Will edit it in if this happens during the week.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

Mixed feelings. The performance improvement is fantastic, but this iteration of PVP isn't very fun. Skill is rewarded within the simplicity of the system, but class kits aren't well-rounded at all, and straightforward zerging with 0 finesse (positioning, weaving, picking your fights, etc) feels much too effective.

Do you have any general feedback?

This is a promising start.

Highlights:

- No overtuned ball groups.
- No overtuned cross healing.
- Skills built for mobile fights (eg, templar buffs).
- No cheesy pet spam body blocking.
- Stuck in combat bug is resolved in this iteration as far as I saw.
- Very responsive even with large, large numbers of people at keeps.
- It suddenly feels like Cyrodiil *might* be able to find a *functional* base it could build out from, instead of stagnating.

Pain points:
- Very hard to find a small-scale fight that isn't swiftly mowed down by a group of 30.
- Much too rewarding to zerg surf. Would be great to find a way to distribute small groups of people on the map or in keeps somehow.
- Class balance is way, way off.
- Bombers have had their playstyle eliminated as far as I can tell, which feels harsh for them.
- Lack of CP makes riding feel like a slog.
- Lack of any strong DoTs on ballista/treb siege feels off given big big numbers, although with severe lack of class purges probably for the best right now.
- Very hard to get siege down in good places before inexperienced players hit the siege cap. (eg, can't put treb against the wall to hit inside oil house cos constantly at siege cap).
- Few small scale fights I did find were a bit dull just due to lack of variety. I already suspect even good fights will feel more and more "samey" as the week goes on.

Edit Following Pop Cap Increase
Being kicked from server and/or "An unexpected internal error has occurred" every 15mins since pop cap increase, but may be coincidence as this is not totally uncommon some days with ESO.

Capsaica

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, zerg v zerg v zerg all over the place, both in the field and at keeps.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Better latency-wise, yes. I did not feel bogged down with skill casting, which I do occasionally see on live. Some skills were a bit hitchy to fire and without the Reach passive, it was difficult to defend keeps with the limited range of ranged skills. If I were fighting 1v1, it could have been fun. Fighting on the edges of zergs did not feel effective or particularly fun, although I appreciated that there were no real tanks and skill combos are effective. Being able to readily cast skills was nice and just having the large-scale combat was nice. BUT, after about half an hour it became stale and boring. I hard crashed twice with no discernable reason while mid fight over the course of about 1-1.5 hours. I only rarely crash in the normal Cyrodiil, so twice in one night was surprising. Love the concept of the larger scale fights, but not without more effective skills and more flexibility.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
Not excited about them. They're ok, they function. Don't think everyone gets treated the same (classes are very different in terms of power). I did like not having to manage inventory... I am not happy that skills and gear that I've worked hard to obtain and/or paid a decent bit of money to access (i.e. chapters for access to skill lines) are not available. I understand this is just a test right now, but if that becomes a permanent thing, I and many others will have no incentive to continue to invest in content since our primary play mode is PvP.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
No corruption noticed. Did get booted twice.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
I was disappointed to see hints of latency issues and to crash a few times. I had hoped that with the very stripped down skill set and combat system, there would be no issues at all.

Do you have any general feedback?
I like the large scale fights, would like to see more. As @Joy_Division mentioned, it feels a lot like the Beta and early year or so of the game in terms of the scale of the fights. I agree with others that returning AoE caps is an awful idea. Once people get smart about it, they will just literally start stacking to push through damage like they did "back in the day." I like that my Quickslot menu doesn't need constant adjustment. Please consider having a siege quickslot in addition to the consumable one - that would be amazing (for live). I like that the combat bug seems to be mostly not a thing. I like that groups and individuals are not unkillable.

I will continue to test as I can and provide additional feedback if anything changes and/or needs updating.

Jestir

I would like to say this in addition to my earlier feedback

While I think separately balanced PvP only version of skills are probably better for the game, I do want to say that the ability to make your own build from the hundreds of sets in the game, balance enchants, pick the armor weight and the ability to choose skills from outside of just your class is incredibly important to the players who have stuck with PvP even in its current state

I also believe though that maybe a standardized template campaign like this, but obviously with more skills lines like weapon, guild and AvA lines, would be a fantastic replacement for at least the under 50 campaign (maybe the no cp campaign as well, I don't know if it has any fans left who actually play it). It's that absolute even playing field that anyone can step in and take part of that the under 50 campaign (and no cp) absolutely fails at being.

EF321

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, never got kicked from server, like what usually happens with large battles
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
It was okay for the most part, but in one particularly massive fight when I was diving into the very middle of the action, I could feel ability delay.
What you think of the simplified abilities?
I'm fine with simple abilities, i.e. the kind that only does damage, or only provides buff. What's not great in this test is overall lack of abilities.
Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
Nope.
What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
It might be fun for a couple of days and while population is capped, but gameplay will get stale real quick.
Do you have any general feedback?
This might be cool as mini-event once a year or so. Don't think this will be popular as permanent campaign.

noneatza

First of all, I never PVP other than to get the ults, vigor, and caltrops for my characters. I dont know pvp meta nor am i good at it, im only taking part in this to level assault skill line on my new tank since big pp AP boost.


Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes, larger than the usual big groups i join when i go(again, pvp noob, i look for large # of people and follow around)

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Running a really old gtx 1060, zero lag and fps drops, honestly never seen cyro being so smooth

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I think they have removed the knowledge aspect of pvp almost completely since everyone is of equal stats
This is amazing for people like me who are clueless, i can now actually kill people on my own, i love this

This is a HORRIBLE situation for anyone with any semblance of pvp and meta knowledge, it probably feels like months of hard work and learning/trying stuff was just deleted. (This can very well be whats known as a "quit moment")

Turtle_Bot

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the new Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign). Please try out the new campaign and let us know what you think! Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
  Yes, multiple times I participated in what was clearly a 100v100v100 zerg war (it was a lot of fun btw, especially when the numbers were even)
  
• Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
  - Latency-wise, performance was good.
  - Combat responsiveness was decent (had a few small skipped inputs, but much better than regular cyrodiil).
  - Fun is very subjective and has multiple answers for me. The large scale battles were indeed fun, however there were other aspects that were not fun (some of which were pain points regarding basic abilities/functionality that I raised during the PTS stage of these tests).
  - Numbers definitely has the most impact now, which is both a good and bad thing. It's good in that average players can truly now overwhelm with enough numbers, but the numbers required do seem a bit small (a basic 2-3v1 will always favor the 2-3 instead of the 1 despite a huge skill difference).
  
• What you think of the simplified abilities?
  There are some I love, some I really dislike:
  Likes:
  Necro Skull - feels fast, fluid and strong to use (please look into implementing this increased projectile speed and shorter cast animation into the live version of skulls if possible)
  Warden Bird - see necro skull
  Necro in general felt much improved (outside of sacrificial bones)
  Pets - now being targeted DoTs they now feel worth using instead of being a hindrance in PvP.
  Arcanist portal - feels as fast as streak now, especially with the "auto-place ground abilities" option checked on
  DK Stonefist - feels like the destro staff skill crushing shock, very strong ranged interrupt that is fluid and easy to use
  Dislikes:
  Crystal Fragments - basically no longer worth running this ability at all, the cast time is very jarring, especially now that it doesn't have the instant-cast proc, which leaves sorc in a very awkward position of relying on overload (ultimate) as the class spammable (this issue I raised during the PTS)
  Surge - the cooldown just seems far too long when other classes have the same strong heals, but much lower cooldowns. (another thing I raised during the PTS)
  Sacrificial Bones - just feels unimpactful (took me a while to notice it wasn't doing much, admittedly I do prefer (and am used to) blighted blast bones over gravelord sacrifice for the regular necro abilities.
  Overall:
  There are many aspects that I do like from the vengeance abilities, such as the abilities being much simpler to use (no convoluted mechanics like necro corpse + gravelord sacrifice on skull 3rd cast), but many of them also seem too over-simplified in terms of just having too much stripped from them.
  
• Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
  • N/A, I didn't have any crashes while playing and everything seemed fine when I exited the campaign to a PvE zone then logged out.
• What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
  Initial thoughts:
  - Seeing the massive populations back was amazing.
  - Performance was amazing considering the numbers seen in those battles, but there were still some minor hiccups (delays/missed inputs) in some of the very massive battles (nowhere near as many as regular Cyrodiil).
  - Seeing more emphasis on actual use of skills being rewarded over simply activating proc sets was also something nice to see.
  - The combat did feel a bit too simplified in general, not to the extent that skill expression or individual actions no longer made any difference, but their impacts were severely limited.
  - Balance is still a concern (yes I know this test was about performance, but balance is still very important, especially when it comes to basic combat abilities) so this would need huge adjustments and proper coordination and communication with players on getting this right.
  - Weapons almost feel pointless. Simply slot whichever weapon you are most comfortable weaving with and just run with that.
  
• Do you have any general feedback?
  I feel like the vengeance ruleset could be a nice event theme for a short event campaign assuming some of the balance issues can be sorted, but the lack of ability to theory craft anything at all is something that is missing from this ruleset that I feel would prevent it from being a stable mainstay of PvP.

P.S. Whatever you guys did to fix the stuck in combat bug for this test, please, please, please find a way to bring it to regular cyrodiil. It has been amazing to actually be out of combat within seconds (even if the battle is still raging) and able to mount up and go somewhere without being stuck in combat (even post death/respawn) for 30+ minutes.

alaunanna

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes a few half alliance vs. half an alliance battles.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Yes, while I didn't stick around for a long time at them, skills were working fine (I usually go down to one skill per 3 seconds in bigger battles, or if a ball group shows up), and I could see everyone around me (usually with big battles I only get 10 or so of each team showing at a time, and the other phase in and out).

What you think of the simplified abilities?
The abilities feel good so far, you actually make choices when you click your buttons - do i want an immobilise, stun, DOT or direct damage - rather than a mangle of smash all the buttons all the time it doesn't matter, or "I do my three click combo and you die before you have a chance to do anything, then I run around a rock for 20mins when your friend tries to kill me." There was enough to chose from too, I designed group group setups for our team, but there were definitely some solo options you could pick too that you don't focus on when playing in a team, and a nice range of mellee and ranged game play.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’
I didn't have any issues with any of the characters I took in to play. I do know two people crashed out (one couldn't move or type ingame - and had to restart the game, and one could only move, and not do anything else when they exited), and one person lost their CP setup when they exited. No-one else reported anyting buggy from the 40 of us that played.
Edit 26th Mar: --
The person who couldn't move/type and had to quit out, on the first night, had it happen again the second night too -- but we managed to fix it by removing the discord overlay (they have the discord post one channel direct into ESO so they can be in the voice channel with us without having hearing --- with this off they were able to move again without restarting).
-- End Edit 26th Mar

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
I like it, healing only 3 people per click when a ram total is 6 makes it interesting - especially with no mass purge -- but we're rising to the challenge . And I'm enjoying that balls may not cause major lag, or 'huge death areas of desynced pulls' if they come and play.
People will adjust playstyles throughout the week, so my feedback might change - but initial thoughts are positive

Do you have any general feedback?
From the people I was playing with:
- there were a few comments that they'd like the queue to be less - but the ones most hurt by that were people who had to queu more than once because they ported somewhere and the queue got stuck (so working out how to not lose people in the queue would be great).
- we had some in zone chat that seem to just not like change and complained about everything all night instead of just playing. One person in our guild considered boycotting it because they didn't want anything to change.
- But in general the feedback was otherwise very positive from everyone playinng
- It took a few battles to get into the groove of having more people placing sieges, and people placing mutliple siege types -- but we got there - I personally like the one of each type of siege each - it forces more people to actually participate in the cyrodiil part of Cyrodiil - sieging

alaunanna

and I forgot to add -- we could actually seeee the flamin oil aoes, all night, so we could move around them - instead of getting surprise ticks of oil death! -- much appreciated!

WaywardArgonian

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes, nearly all the action I found was zerg vs. zerg. It is very easy to get into encounters like that because they are everywhere.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

They did feel better latency-wise. I still got fps drops when there were hundreds of players present, but I had no or very limited input lag from my abilities. I also experienced one crash while fighting at a keep. I'll link the video: https://youtu.be/-ssJuLVzM-U

I also heard from multiple friends that they experienced crashes and got stuck in queue.

The fighting itself started out fun in the sense that it was something different, and took place on a scale I'd never experienced before. However, it got old pretty fast as battles are mainly decided by pure numbers, i.e. bigger zerg wins. So what ended up happening a lot that two giant zergs were pushing each other, and then once one of the factions got pushed back close to their spawn point (like an outpost or keep), their ability to keep fielding reinforcements would allow them to push back the other faction to their spawn point, rinse repeat. I saw a lot of this 'pingpong' gameplay between Sejanus and BRK in particular. I think this kind of gameplay will get boring very fast.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

Not a big fan. There is no real way to express skill, especially in this first test where some classes just have more in their toolkit than others. For example, Sorcs only having hard-cast frags as a single target spammable makes it super sluggish to play, whereas Nightblade felt a bit better. The absence of weapon passives also makes it completely pointless to run any other weapon than resto staff.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

No corruption but I did experience a hard crash as linked above.

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

I like the change of pace and the chance to experience something new. However, I don't see myself playing this for more than a week. The fighting itself is very stale and monotonous. Even with future balancing and additional features, I do not like this as a template for the future of PVP.

Do you have any general feedback?

I'd like to urge the devs to also monitor activity and player feedback over longer periods of time. Currently I'm seeing a lot of sentiment along the lines of 'I wish this were permanent' and 'I hope it stays this way'. However, we are just on day 2 of a completely novel experience, and from a design point of view, you can question the long-term viability of a mode that is just a numbers game.

I saw the same pattern emerge during the initial no-proc test: many were happy with the removal of proc sets initially, but after 3 additional months of no-proc and a subsequent no-proc campaign, that enthusiasm was completely gone 2 years down the line. No-proc ended up being poorly balanced and poorly communicated to the player. Back then, most of players' enthusiasm seemed rooted in the disabling of problematic sets (back then stuff like Caluurion), and during Vengeance it is similar. A lot of people are just glad they aren't getting pulled by Rush of Agony and that there is no HoT stacking. I think those are problems that can be addressed without throwing out the baby with the bathwater and eliminating all playstyles that aren't zerging.

Even if you want to go forward with this template, I urge the developers to do rigorous balance testing and actually communicate the rules to this campaign in a foolproof manner to players. Yesterday in chat I saw a lot of people wondering why their sets didn't work. While you could say it's on them to stay up-to-date with the game, I feel like such confusion can easily be solved with more in-your-face communication or prompts that are completely independent from communication outside the game (such as on the forums or the website).

I made a post about what I think went wrong with no-proc in another thread. It is worth giving a read to avoid repeating the same mistakes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8281374#Comment_8281374

sans-culottes

noneatza wrote: »

First of all, I never PVP other than to get the ults, vigor, and caltrops for my characters. I dont know pvp meta nor am i good at it, im only taking part in this to level assault skill line on my new tank since big pp AP boost.


Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes, larger than the usual big groups i join when i go(again, pvp noob, i look for large # of people and follow around)

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Running a really old gtx 1060, zero lag and fps drops, honestly never seen cyro being so smooth

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I think they have removed the knowledge aspect of pvp almost completely since everyone is of equal stats
This is amazing for people like me who are clueless, i can now actually kill people on my own, i love this

This is a HORRIBLE situation for anyone with any semblance of pvp and meta knowledge, it probably feels like months of hard work and learning/trying stuff was just deleted. (This can very well be whats known as a "quit moment")

Thank goodness this is just a test—and for one week.

LesserCircle

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes and there's mostly no lag at all, battles are bigger than ever as well
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Latency was pretty good, but of course it's hard to do anything when there's like hundreds of players in front of you which is understandable and expected.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

From the classes I have tried I like the simplified abilities, however some classes would need some kind of stun and utility.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

I didn't encounter any bug like it's mentioned here so far

What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?

I'm liking it, it's fun and it's full of players, battles feel fair as everyone has the same stats and classes that are usually too squishy were good here, classes also have a lot of identity here, feels like choosing a class really matters here unlike what we usually have.

Do you have any general feedback?

I like vengeance but some classes will need a little more rework if this were to stay as it is, having no stun makes some classes unplayable right now, having no sets is something I see players complain in /zone chat as well as having no CP and all the extra options we usually have, a middle ground would be awesome but I wouldn't want any of it if it means we can't have these large-scale battles without lag, current normal Cyrodiil isn't fun for me.

ssewallb14_ESO

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, easily.
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Latency in large fights was the best I've seen at any point since the first months of the game's release.
What you think of the simplified abilities?
I think they're great. Focuses more on the combat and gameplay than build and class balance. I'd be 100% fine with a more fleshed out version of this not having nearly as many overlapping systems and calculations and the main game, especially if the performance can be retained.
Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
No disconnection issues.
What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
Large fights feel awesome with no lag, really feels like an alliance war for the first time in years. I think the gameplay as is favors numbers quite a bit, it kind of gets reduced to a blob, especially in very larger (~40v40) fights, and that will need to be ironed out, hopefully not in a way that encourages the ubiquitous bomber/ball group/aoe pull playstyle that currently dominates the main game. I'd echo the sentiment that things feel way, way better without massive amounts of heal stacking. Like I can actually focus down a target instead of health bars not moving until a bomb happens. The ~20v20 fights feel really really good without heal stacking. I'd like to see it go more in this direction.

Another thing I'd add is if we're going the low heal cap route, there will need to be more of a distinction between self and ally heals. I literally cannot heal myself with Rushed Ceremony in a large fight, I need to resort to healing ritual, a more group focused heal.
Do you have any general feedback?
Keep going. This seems like it has a lot of potential, I'm looking forward to seeing what the team can come up with.