Feedback on Yesterday's Battleground Brawl Livestream

katanagirl1

Sleepsin wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

December7854 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

December7854 wrote: »

Honestly there are some personal manifestos in the comment section and if I were a dev I'd say, "I'm not reading all that."

Give the tldr version and maybe we'll be able to make some headway. Use bullet points if necessary, be succinct, don't ramble and repeat yourself. These devs are already busy. Please consider their time.

It's not a devs job to read it. There should be many middlemen between the dev and someone at ZoS who monitors the forums.

The point was that if we're going to complain about communication we should also consider our own. We're not exactly master's degree in communication material here.

And again, this comes down to ZOS' non-communication that probably celebrates its 10th anniversary this year as well.

This is a thread that has seen a disproportionate amount of attention from ZOS. Of course people will post their personal manifestos here. Because they have been writing their bullet points, their arguments, their constructive discussions into the black void for years.

These are the TLDRs, and they're so massive because ZOS has allowed the problems to compound and fester for so long without addressing them in any recognisable (not to mention meaningful) way.

What is ZoS's typical attention cycle?

About a week to ten days. This thread will go for about a month after that, but with only mods being active. There will be a post about "something" coming in the 4thQ, then no response to anything that is affecting players right now.

I want to have a positive attitude about what might happen after reading these posts. We are seeing improvement in communication already, so I think this might have been a wake-up call for them. If they keep getting bashed in this thread for past performance, then it will definitely make them decide to forget about doing anything to improve the game. Give them a chance to make it better. I love Cyrodiil PvP and it is getting to be hopeless some days, but when things work it is the most fun I have in the game.

Onomog

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Give them a chance to make it better. I love Cyrodiil PvP and it is getting to be hopeless some days, but when things work it is the most fun I have in the game.

You know, if this was the only time, I'd 10000% agree with you. However their communication problem has been an issue for years. And it's cyclic - they start out with saying they want to get better, everyone gets excited and offers them the benefit of the doubt, and then time passes. A lot of time. Too much time. And nothing happens. Repeat.

So the criticism and vitriol directed at them is earned. For things to change they need to stop running away from it, own it, and do better. Walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

katanagirl1

Onomog wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Give them a chance to make it better. I love Cyrodiil PvP and it is getting to be hopeless some days, but when things work it is the most fun I have in the game.

You know, if this was the only time, I'd 10000% agree with you. However their communication problem has been an issue for years. And it's cyclic - they start out with saying they want to get better, everyone gets excited and offers them the benefit of the doubt, and then time passes. A lot of time. Too much time. And nothing happens. Repeat.

So the criticism and vitriol directed at them is earned. For things to change they need to stop running away from it, own it, and do better. Walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Yes, I know but there is actually better and more frequent communication now and I have not seen that before. I’ve seen posts talking about what they tried, giving specifics and a walkthrough of their efforts. This is what we really need. I’m not saying there haven’t been issues for a long time, I just don’t think that you are going to get the teary-eyed apology you seem to be expecting if they do decide to turn things around. I’m willing to let them save face if they can turn it around so it won’t get ugly

If they don’t, then you can all tell me what an idiot I was here on the forums for believing it.

Muizer

sarahthes wrote: »

How many people do you think are on the combat team? I'm curious.

You can check the Necrom credits, to get an idea.

The only ones we know for certain are involved with combat are the lead combat designer (BW) and the lead combat engineer. There was also a gameplay engineering lead and 7 game play engineers. There's some further uncertainty due to contractor engineers for most of whom we can't really tell what they would have worked on (especially because for many it's their first ever listed credit in gaming). I don't think any of the other contributors are likely to be involved with combat*.

* well, there will be people for ui, animation and other artistic work of course, but you know what I mean.

Onomog

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Yes, I know but there is actually better and more frequent communication now and I have not seen that before. I’ve seen posts talking about what they tried, giving specifics and a walkthrough of their efforts. This is what we really need. I’m not saying there haven’t been issues for a long time, I just don’t think that you are going to get the teary-eyed apology you seem to be expecting if they do decide to turn things around. I’m willing to let them save face if they can turn it around so it won’t get ugly

If they don’t, then you can all tell me what an idiot I was here on the forums for believing it.

I'm not interested in calling anyone an idiot, now or later. I'm also not interested in anyone giving me a teary-eyed anything. What I am interested in is seeing continuous, consistent effort over time. You say you see new efforts, I say I've seen this all before; I haven't seen anything new from them yet. I saw a long post, half of which was "don't be mean" and the other half was "hey, we want to do better how about a Q&A" Color me skeptical.

They need to get past the "don't be mean", own the mistakes, publicly, that got them all that, and move on to actually improving the game. I've yet to see any substantial steps in that direction.

DemonicGoat

>katanagirl1 wrote: »
>Give them a chance to make it better. I love Cyrodiil PvP and it is getting to be hopeless some days, but when things work it >is the most fun I have in the game.


Yea, Time is running out.. the game is old enough that its realistically close to EOL whether anyone wants to admit that or not. That pvp stream has surely scared many players and will be the deciding factor for likely just as many as to how much time or money theyre willing to put into ESO in the short term at least.

Over a year ago I said , "I think if they could do better they would. Its time to accept that this team cannot or will not. They trot out the same standard corporate doublespeak again and again with no indication that anything will change and a complete lack of transparency into any process that might facilitate that.... This isnt a young inexperienced dev team, that they havent learned these very basic lessons is troubling and telling."

Im not prediciting ESO will die, Its a great IP cow to milk for them and Ill continue to use it as a RP sandbox, Im done paying though. I skipped GC/stopped buying expansions and cancelled plus months ago. Coming back to see _that_ stream... It really is the closure I needed,all the wacked out choices made by these devs over the years makes perfect sense now.

It cured me. no more copium. no more hope. So, silver lining I guess?.

At this point,years into bad choices and ignored feedback, Id need to see a shakeup in the dev team to believe they were sincere about anything.

kiwi_tea

DemonicGoat wrote: »

Yea, Time is running out..

Let's not beat around the bush. It's 3-5 years past the time when they urgently needed to address the issues in PVP. Time ran out years ago, and the game mode has shrunk and is constantly denigrated by both present and former players.

I may be totally deluded here, but even though all the above is true, I kinda think it's never *too* late. Change does happen. Different people come onboard, and the stream itself *may* have been something of a wake up call that they can't currently make and promote PVP the way they want to without *finally* addressing some of the fundamental issues that caused people like Sypher and others to abandon ESO PVP.

I know most will say I'm deluded, but I'm still amazed this stream *even happened* given until the BGs rework it felt like they were trying to pretend for the most part that PVP doesn't exist.

katanagirl1

Onomog wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Yes, I know but there is actually better and more frequent communication now and I have not seen that before. I’ve seen posts talking about what they tried, giving specifics and a walkthrough of their efforts. This is what we really need. I’m not saying there haven’t been issues for a long time, I just don’t think that you are going to get the teary-eyed apology you seem to be expecting if they do decide to turn things around. I’m willing to let them save face if they can turn it around so it won’t get ugly

If they don’t, then you can all tell me what an idiot I was here on the forums for believing it.

I'm not interested in calling anyone an idiot, now or later. I'm also not interested in anyone giving me a teary-eyed anything. What I am interested in is seeing continuous, consistent effort over time. You say you see new efforts, I say I've seen this all before; I haven't seen anything new from them yet. I saw a long post, half of which was "don't be mean" and the other half was "hey, we want to do better how about a Q&A" Color me skeptical.

They need to get past the "don't be mean", own the mistakes, publicly, that got them all that, and move on to actually improving the game. I've yet to see any substantial steps in that direction.

Maybe not in this thread, but I have seen lots of posts in the last couple of weeks where there was consistent and repeated feedback from them about recent bugs so maybe you missed them.

Well, you are welcome to do as you wish, but continuing to beat them up while they seem to be making an effort here could make your doomsaying a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Onomog

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Well, you are welcome to do as you wish, but continuing to beat them up while they seem to be making an effort here could make your doomsaying a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I'm not beating them up. I'm setting expectations and holding them to account. I'd love them to do better.

moderatelyfatman

DemonicGoat wrote: »

>katanagirl1 wrote: »
>Give them a chance to make it better. I love Cyrodiil PvP and it is getting to be hopeless some days, but when things work it >is the most fun I have in the game.


Yea, Time is running out.. the game is old enough that its realistically close to EOL whether anyone wants to admit that or not. That pvp stream has surely scared many players and will be the deciding factor for likely just as many as to how much time or money theyre willing to put into ESO in the short term at least.

Over a year ago I said , "I think if they could do better they would. Its time to accept that this team cannot or will not. They trot out the same standard corporate doublespeak again and again with no indication that anything will change and a complete lack of transparency into any process that might facilitate that.... This isnt a young inexperienced dev team, that they havent learned these very basic lessons is troubling and telling."

Im not prediciting ESO will die, Its a great IP cow to milk for them and Ill continue to use it as a RP sandbox, Im done paying though. I skipped GC/stopped buying expansions and cancelled plus months ago. Coming back to see _that_ stream... It really is the closure I needed,all the wacked out choices made by these devs over the years makes perfect sense now.

It cured me. no more copium. no more hope. So, silver lining I guess?.

At this point,years into bad choices and ignored feedback, Id need to see a shakeup in the dev team to believe they were sincere about anything.

Sorry but I don't agree with you about ESO's inherent issues relating to age. Guild Wars 2 is 2 years older than ESO and in a much better state regarding the playerbase. World of Warcraft is currently celebrating it's 20th anniversary.

The difference is that the other two MMOs have listened to their playerbase. For GW2 the devs promised they weren't going to continue adding powercreep into the game after they introduced Ascended gear. For WOW, they just starting caring about their playerbase again.

Also, both MMOs reinvested part of their profits into updating their engine so it can still run mostly bug free.