Ideal companion character?

Syldras

Speaking of sickly sweet: I'd like a marriage ceremony in Apocrypha with a Seeker as the registrar and a few Watchlings as witnesses. No Hushed as guests, though - too creepy.

JemadarofCaerSalis

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Yeah, one of the main reasons I don't want something like a perk or some sort of 'reward' for having a romance with a companion is because it cheapens the whole idea of a romance in general.

Most games that have companion romances will put some sort of quest or perk (or both) locked behind that romance, which makes it feel like you have to do ALL the romances in order to get all the perks (or your favorite companion has the garbage perk, while the one you hate has the best perk in the game that you need to finish it), and I really don't want that to come to ESO.

This^ All of this. Also, I'm just inherently uncomfortable with the idea of showing romantic interest in someone just to get something out of them. -shudders- Ugh.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

For instance, I feel that Tanlorin would be the exact opposite of what I am talking about with regards to how they would talk to the player if they were romancing them. While I feel that Isobel would probably be prone to wanting to make gestures to show her affection. This is based upon how they act during their quest lines and how their random dialogue lines. Tanlorin seems to love to shoehorn past conquests into a lot of dialogue, while Isobel often suggests finding a shop to get a trinket or souvenir.

I feel like Isobel would be wonderful to romance if they do her justice. I love her knightly and considerate personality. I don't want to see it get overtly sickly sweet, but I wouldn't mind having one of my ladies get swept off her feet by a knight in shining armor

One of my biggest issues is I am always a one companion type of girl, and hate the idea that the 'ideal' gameplay is romancing multiple characters.

Yeah, I do feel that Isobel, if done right, could be sweet, I wanted her to be more of a contrast to Tanlorin. I feel that with character romances, I would probably be more likely to do Isobel's romance and leave Tanlorin alone, though honestly, I am waiting for my ideal Handsome altmer male long haired clean shaven shy willowy scholar...

One of the things I think that they *could* potentially do, though I would prefer not, is, if they want to put quests and/or perks behind the romances, allow for a quest (or chain of quests) that basically isn't 'romance' but deepening of friendship, and then at the end, you can enter into a 'romance', but once you get to the 'sworn siblings' or whatever you want to use to describe a very deep level of friendship, you get all the perks for the 'romance'

If that makes sense.

katanagirl1

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

the romantic dialogue, which includes flirting, should be something that you only see once you embark upon that romance path.

I'd find it okay if we are asked once whether we're interested, as soon as the disposition is high enough or in some quest context where it makes sense, in a not too vulgar or obtrusive way. Maybe give us a way to see the dialogue option again if we chose "no" first and change our mind later, but that should then be initiated by the player character and not pop up again unasked for.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

The romance should also be obvious and optional (obvious because there have been games where you can easily accidentally end up romancing characters by just choosing normal seeming dialogue)

I think I hugged a sleepless Ashlander once because I felt pity for him, and then... ah well. Or maybe it was some weird late night hallucination or a fever dream But seriously: This problem could easily be avoided if they marked the dialogue option that leads to accepting romance with a small symbol or something like that.

This wasn't in ESO, but two different games.

One was the Witcher, I was trying for a non-romance playthrough and I can't remember the options, but they were like 'rude' 'rude and dismissive' and 'polite' and polite was the one that lead to the romance. It was the same for the other game, which I think was one of the dragon age ones, where they had two bad options that came across as rude, while the polite one, which wasn't flirtatious, lead to the romance options.

That sounds like Mass Effect. I was enjoying the dialog options and wanted to hear all of them, next thing you know I have somehow told an unlikeable character that I am definitely interested in sleeping with him. There was no option to get out of it and had to watch a cutscene about it, ugh. It was horrible.

JemadarofCaerSalis

katanagirl1 wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

the romantic dialogue, which includes flirting, should be something that you only see once you embark upon that romance path.

I'd find it okay if we are asked once whether we're interested, as soon as the disposition is high enough or in some quest context where it makes sense, in a not too vulgar or obtrusive way. Maybe give us a way to see the dialogue option again if we chose "no" first and change our mind later, but that should then be initiated by the player character and not pop up again unasked for.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

The romance should also be obvious and optional (obvious because there have been games where you can easily accidentally end up romancing characters by just choosing normal seeming dialogue)

I think I hugged a sleepless Ashlander once because I felt pity for him, and then... ah well. Or maybe it was some weird late night hallucination or a fever dream But seriously: This problem could easily be avoided if they marked the dialogue option that leads to accepting romance with a small symbol or something like that.

This wasn't in ESO, but two different games.

One was the Witcher, I was trying for a non-romance playthrough and I can't remember the options, but they were like 'rude' 'rude and dismissive' and 'polite' and polite was the one that lead to the romance. It was the same for the other game, which I think was one of the dragon age ones, where they had two bad options that came across as rude, while the polite one, which wasn't flirtatious, lead to the romance options.

That sounds like Mass Effect. I was enjoying the dialog options and wanted to hear all of them, next thing you know I have somehow told an unlikeable character that I am definitely interested in sleeping with him. There was no option to get out of it and had to watch a cutscene about it, ugh. It was horrible.

I never played that one.

However, that was how I felt with the Witcher one. I accidentally said the wrong thing, and had to watch a cut scene about it. Wasn't too happy, think I may even have went back to an earlier save to 'erase' my mistake :P (and it wasn't even a regular character! It was a quest character!)

HOpefully, any romance options that ZOS gives us will be done tastefully and be able to be skipped.

As an idea, perhaps sort of like how I believe it is done in Skyrim ( I haven't played in a couple of years) where you need to give the person some sort of item and then you can do the whole romance.

One of the things, though, that I would be afraid of happening, with ESO being an evolving world, is how multiple companion romances are handled, not so much in wanting to romance all the companions, but rather for the case of you romance one of your current companions then the next update brings out your ideal companion.

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

HOpefully, any romance options that ZOS gives us will be done tastefully and be able to be skipped.

Knowing how TES games handled it so far, I think there's at least no risk for weird cutscenes.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

As an idea, perhaps sort of like how I believe it is done in Skyrim ( I haven't played in a couple of years) where you need to give the person some sort of item and then you can do the whole romance.

Skyrim was very straightforward, you just had to wear an Amulet of Mara and potential candidates you had a good disposition with (doing one quest for them was enough...) asked you directly whether you'd like to marry. It all wasn't very emotional.

I'd like to see it more complexly done, and more specifically (Amulet of Mara doesn't make much sense if you can travel whole Tamriel and have masses of different cultures who not all worship the Divines; and having companion-specific dialogue would be important to me, too - in Skyrim they all had the same, without cultural differences) - but I'm not against having some kind of item to initiate romance dialogue. Oh, and despite of the joke I made earlier, I don't even think the whole romance thing has to end with a marriage ceremony.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

One of the things, though, that I would be afraid of happening, with ESO being an evolving world, is how multiple companion romances are handled, not so much in wanting to romance all the companions, but rather for the case of you romance one of your current companions then the next update brings out your ideal companion.

It's like in real life

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

HOpefully, any romance options that ZOS gives us will be done tastefully and be able to be skipped.

Knowing how TES games handled it so far, I think there's at least no risk for weird cutscenes.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

As an idea, perhaps sort of like how I believe it is done in Skyrim ( I haven't played in a couple of years) where you need to give the person some sort of item and then you can do the whole romance.

Skyrim was very straightforward, you just had to wear an Amulet of Mara and potential candidates you had a good disposition with (doing one quest for them was enough...) asked you directly whether you'd like to marry. It all wasn't very emotional.

I'd like to see it more complexly done, and more specifically (Amulet of Mara doesn't make much sense if you can travel whole Tamriel and have masses of different cultures who not all worship the Divines; and having companion-specific dialogue would be important to me, too - in Skyrim they all had the same, without cultural differences) - but I'm not against having some kind of item to initiate romance dialogue. Oh, and despite of the joke I made earlier, I don't even think the whole romance thing has to end with a marriage ceremony.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

One of the things, though, that I would be afraid of happening, with ESO being an evolving world, is how multiple companion romances are handled, not so much in wanting to romance all the companions, but rather for the case of you romance one of your current companions then the next update brings out your ideal companion.

It's like in real life

While I am the type who likes it to end in marriage (which is why I worry about getting the ideal companion after I decide to romance one of the other companions), I wouldn't mind if it didn't.

I wasn't so much thinking of an amulet of Mara, or even it being the same item for each companion (perhaps there could be a quest to get a trinket for each companion that suits their personalities, and once you get the trinkets, you can either display them in the home or give them to the companion to initiate the quests), just something so that you don't stumble into a romance accidentally by wanting to explore all the dialogue options. It wouldn't even necessarily be something romantic or like a proposal item (such as a ring etc..)

Yeah, at least with TES I don't have to worry about cut scenes :P

Erickson9610

Syldras wrote: »

Skyrim was very straightforward, you just had to wear an Amulet of Mara and potential candidates you had a good disposition with (doing one quest for them was enough...) asked you directly whether you'd like to marry. It all wasn't very emotional.

Maybe the Ring of Mara item from the Crown Store could finally find some use....

Syldras

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Maybe the Ring of Mara item from the Crown Store could finally find some use....

It would have no cultural meaning for Sharp and Mirri and I somehow doubt that Azandar cares much for Mara either.

Having to buy a store item for real money to enable companion romance also is no idea I can support.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Maybe the Ring of Mara item from the Crown Store could finally find some use....

It would have no cultural meaning for Sharp and Mirri and I somehow doubt that Azandar cares much for Mara either.

Having to buy a store item for real money to enable companion romance also is no idea I can support.

While I agree that a ring of Mara wouldn't be ideal, perhaps they could do it where you could 'buy' the quests from the crown store, like the room for rent quest, and event quests, where it is always free.

That way people can start the quests they want for the companions, and not have to worry about item/quest bloat for quests they don't want.

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

While I agree that a ring of Mara wouldn't be ideal, perhaps they could do it where you could 'buy' the quests from the crown store, like the room for rent quest, and event quests, where it is always free.
That way people can start the quests they want for the companions, and not have to worry about item/quest bloat for quests they don't want.

I'd be fine if it was free, but I'm unfortunately not sure how probable that would be. They put companions up for sale now, they could as well sell a continuation to the companion questlines seperately, both without romance ("Mirri's story, part 2") as well as with. I would really dislike that direction. I'd rather see content being added continuously directly into the game (like they did it so far with new antiquities, new card decks or the new Archive maps) than offering buyable modules.

Erickson9610

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

While I agree that a ring of Mara wouldn't be ideal, perhaps they could do it where you could 'buy' the quests from the crown store, like the room for rent quest, and event quests, where it is always free.
That way people can start the quests they want for the companions, and not have to worry about item/quest bloat for quests they don't want.

I'd be fine if it was free, but I'm unfortunately not sure how probable that would be. They put companions up for sale now, they could as well sell a continuation to the companion questlines seperately, both without romance ("Mirri's story, part 2") as well as with. I would really dislike that direction. I'd rather see content being added continuously directly into the game (like they did it so far with new antiquities, new card decks or the new Archive maps) than offering buyable modules.

If part 2 stories for each Companion were to be made, and they're unlocked with Rapport only after their original questline has been finished, then what would you propose the Rapport threshold should be for each quest?

The reason this is important is because for our newest Companions, the quests unlock at 1000, 2000, and 3000 Rapport. I'm not entirely sure what levels the two quests for Bastian or Mirri unlock at. The maximum possible Rapport is 5500, and 4000 is considered "maximum" for unlocking Keepsakes.

So if the final quest of their 1st questline unlocks at 3000 Rapport, and we can only gain up to 5500 Rapport, following the trend that something happens every 1000 Rapport, would their theoretical 2nd questline begin at 4000 Rapport and have one last quest at 5000 Rapport, or would they have just a single quest at 5000 or 5500 Rapport?

Offering questlines via the Crown Store could mitigate this issue if the 2nd questline requires the 1st questline to be completed on that character to be activated. Otherwise, raising the maximum Rapport could be an option to make room for more Rapport-based quests, but it'd mean the "maximum" for the Keepsake achievement would lose its meaning, as the "maximum" would end up being in the middle of the bar if the upper limit of Rapport was increased.

Syldras

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If part 2 stories for each Companion were to be made, and they're unlocked with Rapport only after their original questline has been finished, then what would you propose the Rapport threshold should be for each quest?

I don't see a need for a threshold to be honest. Maybe with one exception: That the rapport should in positive territory, so it makes sense that the companion approaches the player character with the news.

Generally I think the thresholds for the current quests were more or less designed to get players to level rapport - because what other reasons would there be to do that, otherwise? Maybe also from a narrative perspective, to turn companion and player character from strangers to friends. But once that friendhip is established, there's no reason to tell that story another time.

New companion questlines could just be continuous, one quest after another just like zone questlines. Or maybe they could even use the in-game clock (there must be one, as there are day and night cycles, even moon cycles) so once one quest is finished, the following one will automatically trigger after another day, or whatever time they consider appropriate. Might make sense if one is waiting for a letter story-wise, or for someone to report back. There are many possibilities.

Erickson9610

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If part 2 stories for each Companion were to be made, and they're unlocked with Rapport only after their original questline has been finished, then what would you propose the Rapport threshold should be for each quest?

I don't see a need for a threshold to be honest. Maybe with one exception: That the rapport should in positive territory, so it makes sense that the companion approaches the player character with the news.

Generally I think the thresholds for the current quests were more or less designed to get players to level rapport - because what other reasons would there be to do that, otherwise? Maybe also from a narrative perspective, to turn companion and player character from strangers to friends. But once that friendhip is established, there's no reason to tell that story another time.

New companion questlines could just be continuous, one quest after another just like zone questlines. Or maybe they could even use the in-game clock (there must be one, as there are day and night cycles, even moon cycles) so once one quest is finished, the following one will automatically trigger after another day, or whatever time they consider appropriate. Might make sense if one is waiting for a letter story-wise, or for someone to report back. There are many possibilities.

It'd be strange to have a new quest offered immediately after completing their original questline, when the major conflict they've been concerned with has finally been resolved. The point of Rapport-based quest unlock stages is to take up your time — even if you farmed Rapport as quickly as you could, it'd take you a long time to reach the next stage. If you chose to just complete the +125 Rapport daily quests, for most Companions it'd only take 2 real world days to get from one quest to the next.

I personally find the system perfect as it is. The real world time spent between quests really helps the player feel a connection to their stories, which is something that most other questlines in this game fail to achieve.

Syldras

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It'd be strange to have a new quest offered immediately after completing their original questline, when the major conflict they've been concerned with has finally been resolved. The point of Rapport-based quest unlock stages is to take up your time — even if you farmed Rapport as quickly as you could, it'd take you a long time to reach the next stage. If you chose to just complete the +125 Rapport daily quests, for most Companions it'd only take 2 real world days to get from one quest to the next.
I personally find the system perfect as it is. The real world time spent between quests really helps the player feel a connection to their stories, which is something that most other questlines in this game fail to achieve.

We were talking about putting them into the store (hopefully for free) or not? Then everyone could choose for themselves when to pick the questline up. And just because the next quest is available it doesn't mean it has to be played immediately. Or, as I said, there could be a timer. Or, another suggestion that I liked (I think it was from @JemadarofCaerSalis ?), we could get a letter as a quest item, so we could choose when to open it.

Also I'm wondering, if they would want to add even more quests to a companion at some point, what would happen then, if we're already at the 5500 maximum threshold? Would they have to increase maximum rapport? How would that translate to companion's speech? Honestly, most of them sound like they want to marry my character already now. Same goes for the rapport description (the highest for Zerith-var is "Zerith is eternally grateful for his second life. It's where he met you." - and in the translation I'm playing it sounds even more extreme).

Ilsabet

amig186 wrote: »

But it would be funny to have a companion who doesn't kiss your hindquarters all the time. Either someone who accompanies you begrugingly (like a bound dremora), or one who banters with you constantly, even coming close to crossing the line at times. I suppose that would put a lot of people off though, and not sell well.

A super sarcastic bound Dremora who really doesn't want to be here and is just comically passive-aggressive about being your devoted servant would be fantastic. Probably wouldn't appeal to everyone (like people who prefer more genuine camaraderie or don't see the humor in being constantly roasted), but there's so much room for hilarious banter while they literally have to do whatever you want because you summoned them. And they'd probably learn something about the power of friendship along the way if we start to actually treat them like a companion and not just a disposable tool like they're used to, so they'd grudgingly see some value in hanging out with us although admitting it would be super beneath them. They'd also be perfect for the chaos gremlin playstyle since they'd love watching you break mortal laws and sow glorious carnage and not be the typical holier-than-thou stick-in-the-mud.

If I'm not careful I'll talk myself into another writing project.

Speaking of, if anybody's jonesing for extracurricular companion action, I might as well show off the thread about the companion I designed and the two quests I made into playable browser games. They're pretty fun if anyone's looking for something ESO-adjacent to do and/or has ever wondered what kind of companion that Ilsabet person would create.

On the romance front, I agree that it would need to be entirely optional and I would say ideally initiated by the player. That way we completely avoid any awkward or uncomfortable advances and we can maintain the strong platonic friendship vibe we already have for any companions that any given player doesn't want to romance. It might lead to a plethora of "oh I'm glad you said something because I kind of had feelings for you too but I didn't want to say anything in case you didn't feel the same way" responses, but at least that's a believable way to get around why they didn't make a move first.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I wasn't so much thinking of an amulet of Mara, or even it being the same item for each companion (perhaps there could be a quest to get a trinket for each companion that suits their personalities, and once you get the trinkets, you can either display them in the home or give them to the companion to initiate the quests), just something so that you don't stumble into a romance accidentally by wanting to explore all the dialogue options. It wouldn't even necessarily be something romantic or like a proposal item (such as a ring etc..)

I dig the idea of the quest-starter being an opportunity for the player to get or make an item that the companion would particularly like, that would reflect our experiences together and how well we know them. And if a player wasn't interested in pursuing the romance, they could just not accept that quest.

Also, for the record, I would endorse the long-haired Altmer scholar man companion.

Erickson9610

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It'd be strange to have a new quest offered immediately after completing their original questline, when the major conflict they've been concerned with has finally been resolved. The point of Rapport-based quest unlock stages is to take up your time — even if you farmed Rapport as quickly as you could, it'd take you a long time to reach the next stage. If you chose to just complete the +125 Rapport daily quests, for most Companions it'd only take 2 real world days to get from one quest to the next.
I personally find the system perfect as it is. The real world time spent between quests really helps the player feel a connection to their stories, which is something that most other questlines in this game fail to achieve.

We were talking about putting them into the store (hopefully for free) or not? Then everyone could choose for themselves when to pick the questline up. And just because the next quest is available it doesn't mean it has to be played immediately. Or, as I said, there could be a timer. Or, another suggestion that I liked (I think it was from @JemadarofCaerSalis ?), we could get a letter as a quest item, so we could choose when to open it.

Also I'm wondering, if they would want to add even more quests to a companion at some point, what would happen then, if we're already at the 5500 maximum threshold? Would they have to increase maximum rapport? How would that translate to companion's speech? Honestly, most of them sound like they want to marry my character already now. Same goes for the rapport description (the highest for Zerith-var is "Zerith is eternally grateful for his second life. It's where he met you." - and in the translation I'm playing it sounds even more extreme).

Yeah, that's why I'm saying that a 2nd questline shouldn't be bound by Rapport, but rather require the 1st questline to be completed in order to allow you to begin the 2nd questline. Increasing the maximum Rapport to make room for more quests sounds like a poor idea all around.

It'd be an interesting idea if you had a quest for getting married to a Companion character, which could take the existing Pledge of Mara mechanic and expand it, but that route would likely cost Crowns and be a relatively short quest anyway. I know people would spend money on that, though. Even if Companion romance was free and unrelated to Mara, it'd probably not be as exciting as a proper sequel to their original questline would be.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It'd be strange to have a new quest offered immediately after completing their original questline, when the major conflict they've been concerned with has finally been resolved. The point of Rapport-based quest unlock stages is to take up your time — even if you farmed Rapport as quickly as you could, it'd take you a long time to reach the next stage. If you chose to just complete the +125 Rapport daily quests, for most Companions it'd only take 2 real world days to get from one quest to the next.
I personally find the system perfect as it is. The real world time spent between quests really helps the player feel a connection to their stories, which is something that most other questlines in this game fail to achieve.

We were talking about putting them into the store (hopefully for free) or not? Then everyone could choose for themselves when to pick the questline up. And just because the next quest is available it doesn't mean it has to be played immediately. Or, as I said, there could be a timer. Or, another suggestion that I liked (I think it was from JemadarofCaerSalis ?), we could get a letter as a quest item, so we could choose when to open it.

Also I'm wondering, if they would want to add even more quests to a companion at some point, what would happen then, if we're already at the 5500 maximum threshold? Would they have to increase maximum rapport? How would that translate to companion's speech? Honestly, most of them sound like they want to marry my character already now. Same goes for the rapport description (the highest for Zerith-var is "Zerith is eternally grateful for his second life. It's where he met you." - and in the translation I'm playing it sounds even more extreme).

Yeah, that's why I'm saying that a 2nd questline shouldn't be bound by Rapport, but rather require the 1st questline to be completed in order to allow you to begin the 2nd questline. Increasing the maximum Rapport to make room for more quests sounds like a poor idea all around.

It'd be an interesting idea if you had a quest for getting married to a Companion character, which could take the existing Pledge of Mara mechanic and expand it, but that route would likely cost Crowns and be a relatively short quest anyway. I know people would spend money on that, though. Even if Companion romance was free and unrelated to Mara, it'd probably not be as exciting as a proper sequel to their original questline would be.

I was the one who mentioned getting a letter from them that is a quest item. It would allow people the opportunity to do the quests when they wanted, and if it were something like a furniture item as well, they could dump the ones they don't want to use in a house somewhere.

As for when, honestly, while people who have already done the companion quests would obviously do it after them, depending on how it is handled, it could easily be done somewhere mid good rapport.

IE, it doesn't *have* to start out romance, but rather a deepening of friendship that could be pursued along side the regular companion quests. So, it would start, or at least have the option to be started, somewhere around where the friendship begins to deepen and the companion is willing to trust the PC with more personal details. Instead of rapport, it could also be triggered by completion of one or more of the companion quests like other quests are, but again, doesn't necessarily have to be the very last companion quest.

I also don't see romances as continuation of previous storylines, because that would make them sort of mandatory to do, which is something I don't think they should be.

Instead, as I said, it should be more of a 'alongside questline' or its own separate storyline. This also leaves the path open for actual continuations with regular quests handled however the developers would like to handle it.

Horny_Poney

A necromancer, but not “locked” behind ToT this time (I don’t play ToT). Preferably Breton.