Complete One Arena is overkill for a Daily Endeavor

TheMajority

SilverBride wrote: »

Players that are already running arenas every day anyway probably wouldn't complain if they completed the endeavor in 5 rounds, and this would help those that can't finish a whole arena quickly.

reward should always be for completion of a task, not ever for left it incomplete and did not try hard enough.

Ilumia

Pelanora wrote: »

One can only do three....

Why complain about number four or number five.

Because i was locked out of two. The earn a ticket, and the scribing one both require the newest chapter. And the third is a task that requires quite a lot of time (no matter whether it takes me 30 mins or an hour for one endeavor, that's just too tedious).

Normally I think the demanding ones, like do a trial, dungeon or arena are annoyingly demanding, so I just choose amongst the remaining. Most of the time that's no problem, and with easy ones, such as harvest 8 of x nodes, and deconstruct 6 of y craft, it makes up for it. But lately there's been more days when I'm pushed into increasingly annoying and lengthy tasks to get 3 endeavors done. And it's, well, annoying and tedious. It's no big deal of course, but I don't enjoy logging in to tasks that make me feel "ugh, not this again" even if it is just a small thing. And it's just another small thing that contributes to negativite feelings in my playtime, instead of the opposite.

Renato90085

MrGarlic wrote: »

Imagine if we got 'Complete a trial,' and it only offered 10 seals of endeavours.

we have 2 normal trial can finish within 5-10 minutes in gf run

disky

SilverBride wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

I mean, it's just 1 option out of 5, you can just do the quicker ones, I've done all 3 in less than 10 minutes.

That is all fine but it doesn't mean that the arena one is comparable to the rest of the daily endeavors for the amount of time and effort they take.

Isn't there also a "Complete 1 Trial" endeavour? I feel like there are a number of endeavours which are a little tougher for a lot of people, but which may also just be the thing someone is planning to do on that day, and so it would be easy breezy for them to achieve. They may not even have known it was on the list and they just did the arena for their own reasons. This is why I think they're on the list to begin with, and I don't think lowering the requirement to "Kill 1 Arena Boss" is really necessary if ZOS also provides other options which are as achievable or more so.

And also, we don't actually need to max them out every single day.

Hapexamendios

MrGarlic wrote: »

Imagine if we got 'Complete a trial,' and it only offered 10 seals of endeavours.

You must be psychic.

LadyLethalla

The WEEKLY endeavours this week are ridiculous. Might be the straw that makes me go, maybe I'm over this FOMO. 12 heists requires two alts doing one daily heist per day. Ain't nobody got time fo' dat.

LadyLethalla

Additional: today we have maintenance again. Which is always in prime play time for Australia's east coast. So I get 45 minutes in which to login and do all my dailies, get my event tickets and do endeavours. Which also means, I don't have time to do a trial or a BG, not that I'd do the latter anyway. Point being, sometimes we're forced to different choices than if play time was limitless.

alpha_synuclein

SilverBride wrote: »

Do that many players really run arenas every day? I can understand the PvP ones etc., but I diidn't think arenas were that commonly run.

We're all different. I'm not a huge fan of arenas specifically, but I run a trial pretty much every time I log in. So for me the "complete one trial" or "kill x number of A" are the endeavours that I have a good chance of doing by accident. And the "pick 10 flowers" is something I need to go an extra mile for. Short mile, of course, because it's technically much less time than doing a trial, but it's not always just about the time vs amount of seals. If an endeavour doesn't fit your playstyle it doesn't mean it won't fit someone's.

colossalvoids

This might be a shift to actually have people doing the content rewarded rather than having quick 3 task checklist every day for every single player. And honestly I don't see it much different running one BG, one nMA or a nAS run time wise.

Pelanora

Ilumia wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

One can only do three....

Why complain about number four or number five.

Because i was locked out of two. The earn a ticket, and the scribing one both require the newest chapter. And the third is a task that requires quite a lot of time (no matter whether it takes me 30 mins or an hour for one endeavor, that's just too tedious).

Normally I think the demanding ones, like do a trial, dungeon or arena are annoyingly demanding, so I just choose amongst the remaining. Most of the time that's no problem, and with easy ones, such as harvest 8 of x nodes, and deconstruct 6 of y craft, it makes up for it. But lately there's been more days when I'm pushed into increasingly annoying and lengthy tasks to get 3 endeavors done. And it's, well, annoying and tedious. It's no big deal of course, but I don't enjoy logging in to tasks that make me feel "ugh, not this again" even if it is just a small thing. And it's just another small thing that contributes to negativite feelings in my playtime, instead of the opposite.

Lucky then that it's only worth 15 so you didn't miss much.

I'm sorry but this 'I have to do everything even what I don't want to do, every single day' just makes ZERO sense to me.

Only do what's fun.

Shara_Wynn

The weekly endeavor for this week of "Defeat 6 cycle bosses in the Infinite Archive" for 230 seals would take me far less time than completing the daily endeavor of "Complete 1 Trial" for 10 seals.

And unless you have a Trial group ready to go as soon as you log in, that will be the same for everyone.

Ilumia

Pelanora wrote: »

Ilumia wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

One can only do three....

Why complain about number four or number five.

Because i was locked out of two. The earn a ticket, and the scribing one both require the newest chapter. And the third is a task that requires quite a lot of time (no matter whether it takes me 30 mins or an hour for one endeavor, that's just too tedious).

Normally I think the demanding ones, like do a trial, dungeon or arena are annoyingly demanding, so I just choose amongst the remaining. Most of the time that's no problem, and with easy ones, such as harvest 8 of x nodes, and deconstruct 6 of y craft, it makes up for it. But lately there's been more days when I'm pushed into increasingly annoying and lengthy tasks to get 3 endeavors done. And it's, well, annoying and tedious. It's no big deal of course, but I don't enjoy logging in to tasks that make me feel "ugh, not this again" even if it is just a small thing. And it's just another small thing that contributes to negativite feelings in my playtime, instead of the opposite.

Lucky then that it's only worth 15 so you didn't miss much.

I'm sorry but this 'I have to do everything even what I don't want to do, every single day' just makes ZERO sense to me.

Only do what's fun.

But the psychology of this kind of mechanism is based on fomo, not of what is fun. It is predatory, not just in my opinion, but a proven negative psychological part of many mmos. It's very comparable to people being unable to stay of their phones/apps/social media. I don't have that issue, but I can still recognize that it is a problem that they should face, but also that it's tricksy and intended/designed in a way that makes it harder to do.

Also, if zos intends to keep players around, there's a balance to these things where too many people getting too annoyed will push more player hours/players/player money away, than it'll pull in - which is why I'm weighing in on it.

Deanathrae

It does also seem as though the endeavors are becoming more difficult to do quickly.

Weekly:
Kill 300 humanoids as a weekly endeavor? I'm pretty sure it used to be a lower total, and also wasn't a situation where there were only a few humanoids who counted in that map.
12 heists as a weekly endeavor? As pointed out, people have to be running at least two toons who can do heists, or else have friends who will share heist quests.

And the dailies:
Two durables master writs? It used to be complete one master writ.
250 Tel Var stones? It used to be 150 or 200.

I'm sure I'm missing other examples.

DenverRalphy

SilverBride wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

15 seals and 1.7k to run an entire Arena is kind of comical to be honest.

I agree. It doesn't seem like adequate compensation to me.

They should also include the Infinite Archive in this endeavor because isn't it considered an arena?

"Compensation" would infer that the a person is obligated or require to complete a job for an employer/taskmaster. The player isn't forced to complete the tasks set by the Endeavors. They're completely voluntary.

Endeavor rewards are not compensation. They're bonuses.

JeroenB

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

15 seals and 1.7k to run an entire Arena is kind of comical to be honest.

I agree. It doesn't seem like adequate compensation to me.

They should also include the Infinite Archive in this endeavor because isn't it considered an arena?

"Compensation" would infer that the a person is obligated or require to complete a job for an employer/taskmaster. The player isn't forced to complete the tasks set by the Endeavors. They're completely voluntary.

Endeavor rewards are not compensation. They're bonuses.

Not quite, I would say: they are a legal mechanism to avoid outright bans on lootboxes. In other words, the effort and time investment to obtain Seals of Endeavour must be carefully balanced against the ease of temptation to spend real money on Crates.

In my view it's perfectly fine for there to be the odd day or week that happens to roll a combination of Endeavours that don't suit my personal play style. However, it seems undeniable that Endeavours have been increasing in specialisation and difficulty and time required, and the likelihood of leaving them uncompleted has been significantly rising.

DenverRalphy

JeroenB wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

15 seals and 1.7k to run an entire Arena is kind of comical to be honest.

I agree. It doesn't seem like adequate compensation to me.

They should also include the Infinite Archive in this endeavor because isn't it considered an arena?

"Compensation" would infer that the a person is obligated or require to complete a job for an employer/taskmaster. The player isn't forced to complete the tasks set by the Endeavors. They're completely voluntary.

Endeavor rewards are not compensation. They're bonuses.

Not quite, I would say: they are a legal mechanism to avoid outright bans on lootboxes. In other words, the effort and time investment to obtain Seals of Endeavour must be carefully balanced against the ease of temptation to spend real money on Crates.

In my view it's perfectly fine for there to be the odd day or week that happens to roll a combination of Endeavours that don't suit my personal play style. However, it seems undeniable that Endeavours have been increasing in specialisation and difficulty and time required, and the likelihood of leaving them uncompleted has been significantly rising.

Endeavors aren't tied to any Legal mechanism. Crown selling for gold would accomplish that, if it's a real thing. But even if I gave you that point, it wouldn't matter. Because players aren't forced to accumulate Endeavors. It's all competely voluntary.

And Endeavors aren't increasing in effort/time invested so much as it's actually they're just being corrected because over time they gradually became so easy that players could complete them within 15 minutes of logging in and not eveen realize it. Heck, there's still the occasional thread screaming their displeasure when 3 regular endeavors completed before the player even noticed that there was a bonus endeavor in the mix.

Endeavors should require time and effort. It's defined so in the very word "Endeavor".

Toanis

When you regularly do some tasks in order to earn a currency, that's called a job.

A while ago, someone here did the math for the average value of gems, that was about 80 cent per gem. We also know the exchange rate between gems and seals of endeavour. So depending on what you buy, 15 Seals are worth $0.20 - $0.60.

With a minimum wage job in the US you'd need to work less than 5 minutes for the equivalent of 15 Seals. If the endeavour takes longer and it's something you wouldn't do otherwise, do yourself a favour and do something you actually want to do.

spartaxoxo

Deanathrae wrote: »

It does also seem as though the endeavors are becoming more difficult to do quickly.

Weekly:
Kill 300 humanoids as a weekly endeavor? I'm pretty sure it used to be a lower total, and also wasn't a situation where there were only a few humanoids who counted in that map.
12 heists as a weekly endeavor? As pointed out, people have to be running at least two toons who can do heists, or else have friends who will share heist quests.

And the dailies:
Two durables master writs? It used to be complete one master writ.
250 Tel Var stones? It used to be 150 or 200.

I'm sure I'm missing other examples.

There's always been a range to them. Sometimes it's lower and sometimes it's higher. It does feel like it might be leaning towards higher more often lately but that might also be observation bias.

virtus753

DenverRalphy wrote: »

JeroenB wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

15 seals and 1.7k to run an entire Arena is kind of comical to be honest.

I agree. It doesn't seem like adequate compensation to me.

They should also include the Infinite Archive in this endeavor because isn't it considered an arena?

"Compensation" would infer that the a person is obligated or require to complete a job for an employer/taskmaster. The player isn't forced to complete the tasks set by the Endeavors. They're completely voluntary.

Endeavor rewards are not compensation. They're bonuses.

Not quite, I would say: they are a legal mechanism to avoid outright bans on lootboxes. In other words, the effort and time investment to obtain Seals of Endeavour must be carefully balanced against the ease of temptation to spend real money on Crates.

In my view it's perfectly fine for there to be the odd day or week that happens to roll a combination of Endeavours that don't suit my personal play style. However, it seems undeniable that Endeavours have been increasing in specialisation and difficulty and time required, and the likelihood of leaving them uncompleted has been significantly rising.

Endeavors aren't tied to any Legal mechanism. Crown selling for gold would accomplish that, if it's a real thing. But even if I gave you that point, it wouldn't matter. Because players aren't forced to accumulate Endeavors. It's all competely voluntary.

And Endeavors aren't increasing in effort/time invested so much as it's actually they're just being corrected because over time they gradually became so easy that players could complete them within 15 minutes of logging in and not eveen realize it. Heck, there's still the occasional thread screaming their displeasure when 3 regular endeavors completed before the player even noticed that there was a bonus endeavor in the mix.

Endeavors should require time and effort. It's defined so in the very word "Endeavor".

Selling crown store items for gold is not officially supported. ZOS does not guarantee they will reimburse you if you are scammed. It is something people do at their own risk.

Endeavors are the officially supported way of earning items in crown crates through gameplay rather than spending money.

spartaxoxo

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

15 seals and 1.7k to run an entire Arena is kind of comical to be honest.

I agree. It doesn't seem like adequate compensation to me.

They should also include the Infinite Archive in this endeavor because isn't it considered an arena?

"Compensation" would infer that the a person is obligated or require to complete a job for an employer/taskmaster. The player isn't forced to complete the tasks set by the Endeavors. They're completely voluntary.

Endeavor rewards are not compensation. They're bonuses.

Sure. That's one usage. I don't think it's the definition most are using in a video game. I think people mean it like this.

Oxford Languages/Google

something that counterbalances or makes up for an undesirable or unwelcome state of affairs.

Dictionary.com

to provide or be an equivalent; make up; make amends (usually followed by for ):

I would agree that endeavors are meant to be bonuses for things you're already doing. But, some treat it as compensation for going out of their way to do things that they wouldn't normally do. I don't think it's wrong per say.

Edit
It is, after all, a task list with clear payouts that ZOS offers to encourage people to play every day alongside the daily reward. People playing their game looks good for them so companies generally do things like this to increase engagement.

SilverBride

TheMajority wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players that are already running arenas every day anyway probably wouldn't complain if they completed the endeavor in 5 rounds, and this would help those that can't finish a whole arena quickly.

reward should always be for completion of a task, not ever for left it incomplete and did not try hard enough.

Then why is "Complete 2 stages of the Infinite Archive" ok?

Take a look at today's daily endeavors. They are requiring more but rewarding less seals. This has become a progressive trend with the daily endeavors... getting less for doing more.

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players that are already running arenas every day anyway probably wouldn't complain if they completed the endeavor in 5 rounds, and this would help those that can't finish a whole arena quickly.

reward should always be for completion of a task, not ever for left it incomplete and did not try hard enough.

Then why is "Complete 2 stages of the Infinite Archive" ok?

Take a look at today's daily endeavors. They are requiring more but rewarding less seals. This has become a progressive trend with the daily endeavors... getting less for doing more.

Technically because the Archive cannot actually be completed. So they draw the line in a handful of spots. Arenas have an explicit ending.

NordSwordnBoard

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players that are already running arenas every day anyway probably wouldn't complain if they completed the endeavor in 5 rounds, and this would help those that can't finish a whole arena quickly.

reward should always be for completion of a task, not ever for left it incomplete and did not try hard enough.

Then why is "Complete 2 stages of the Infinite Archive" ok?

Take a look at today's daily endeavors. They are requiring more but rewarding less seals. This has become a progressive trend with the daily endeavors... getting less for doing more.

Technically because the Archive cannot actually be completed. So they draw the line in a handful of spots. Arenas have an explicit ending.

Whether "Endless" or "Infinite", one would think the name would make it obvious...

AzuraFan

SilverBride wrote: »

Take a look at today's daily endeavors. They are requiring more but rewarding less seals. This has become a progressive trend with the daily endeavors... getting less for doing more.

Yep. I believe they only added endeavors to get around a potential legal problem with crates. They had to provide a way to get the same items in-game. I'm wondering if seals are starting to affect crown store sales enough that they want to make them harder to get, while still being able to say that everything in a crate is earnable in-game. Alternatively, they might want to push people towards the golden pursuits when they're available. Just speculation. Not all the endeavors have increased requirements, but stuff like "10 heists" for a weekly and an arena for a daily is getting a bit much.

Having said that, players are free to pass on an endeavor. I wouldn't spend the time doing an arena for 10 seals, so if I had to do that one to get 3/3, I'd just get 2/3 that day.

colossalvoids

AzuraFan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Take a look at today's daily endeavors. They are requiring more but rewarding less seals. This has become a progressive trend with the daily endeavors... getting less for doing more.

Yep. I believe they only added endeavors to get around a potential legal problem with crates. They had to provide a way to get the same items in-game. I'm wondering if seals are starting to affect crown store sales enough that they want to make them harder to get, while still being able to say that everything in a crate is earnable in-game. Alternatively, they might want to push people towards the golden pursuits when they're available. Just speculation. Not all the endeavors have increased requirements, but stuff like "10 heists" for a weekly and an arena for a daily is getting a bit much.

Having said that, players are free to pass on an endeavor. I wouldn't spend the time doing an arena for 10 seals, so if I had to do that one to get 3/3, I'd just get 2/3 that day.

This would make the most sense, can say for sure myself and many people I know have no more urge to suppress with crates and are feeling liberated from it, which is probably not as balanced for the company as they've planned.

SilverBride

AzuraFan wrote: »

Having said that, players are free to pass on an endeavor. I wouldn't spend the time doing an arena for 10 seals, so if I had to do that one to get 3/3, I'd just get 2/3 that day.

Yesterday was the first day I considered skipping an endeavor but I went ahead and completed 3 anyway just because I always do. But I'm reaching the point that I'm not going to go out of my way any more and just skip those that are too time consuming. It's just not worth it for 10 - 15 seals.

endorphinsplox

Kinda wild to be complaining about something you are under no obligation to complete, given that you can obtain the same rewards through endeavors that might apply better to your engagement with the game. Its like someone said before, PvP isn't everyone's bag so not all endeavors will be PvP related but some are. I don't tend to grind out endeavors every day, but end up getting some from PvP and some from stuff like finishing an Arena.

Its also incredibly shocking that in a meta dominated by 2 of the easiest playstyles available, enabling even the most casual player to devastate IA's first arc, or the entirety of nMA/nVH without much issue, that this would even come up. The devs have given you every crutch they possibly could and its still somehow not enough.

sarahthes

endorphinsplox wrote: »

Kinda wild to be complaining about something you are under no obligation to complete, given that you can obtain the same rewards through endeavors that might apply better to your engagement with the game. Its like someone said before, PvP isn't everyone's bag so not all endeavors will be PvP related but some are. I don't tend to grind out endeavors every day, but end up getting some from PvP and some from stuff like finishing an Arena.

Its also incredibly shocking that in a meta dominated by 2 of the easiest playstyles available, enabling even the most casual player to devastate IA's first arc, or the entirety of nMA/nVH without much issue, that this would even come up. The devs have given you every crutch they possibly could and its still somehow not enough.

If it's not a daily login reward it's too hard, I guess.

Desiato

endorphinsplox wrote: »

Kinda wild to be complaining about something you are under no obligation to complete

par for this course

I_killed_Vivec

endorphinsplox wrote: »

Kinda wild to be complaining about something you are under no obligation to complete, given that you can obtain the same rewards through endeavors that might apply better to your engagement with the game. Its like someone said before, PvP isn't everyone's bag so not all endeavors will be PvP related but some are. I don't tend to grind out endeavors every day, but end up getting some from PvP and some from stuff like finishing an Arena.

Its also incredibly shocking that in a meta dominated by 2 of the easiest playstyles available, enabling even the most casual player to devastate IA's first arc, or the entirety of nMA/nVH without much issue, that this would even come up. The devs have given you every crutch they possibly could and its still somehow not enough.

Hey, I might be a casual but I'm no arcanist or pet oakensorc!

However, despite an urge to complete endeavours I've found that it is quite liberating to not bother from time to time. I'm no fan of IA, but I might do that weekly; I might do one of the others... or I might find something more interesting to do and forget about the endeavours.

Dun't really matter