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Closing discussion as people still express their concerns on the matter of AI?
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JemadarofCaerSalis✭✭✭✭AngryPenguin wrote: »This whole issue makes me feel like we're all 14 years old and mom just put a hidden camera in our room. You know, just to make sure we're not up to anything she wouldn't approve of.
I just keep coming back to the fact that ESO is rated M. That means that adult language and themes are to be expected. It says so right on the front of every box the game has sold in since ever.
One thing to consider is that just because something is rated M, doesn't mean it HAS to contain everything that an M rating covers.
It is up to the developers of that game to decide what they want to allow/include in the game. They can also change their minds if they feel that players are abusing things that they include.
I have seen things rated M simply because they contain a lot of violence. No language or other adult themes involved, just violence.4 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The topic needs to stay active because the explanation we got was unsatisfying in alaying the players' concerns. What kind of training hiccups? On actual personnel or in AI systems? And we never got a definitive answer if they indeed implemented a new tool to monitor chat. There is speculation whether all the lag and disconnects we are experiencing might be linked. And no answer why this is happening so much now when there was no issue before with the manual report and review process, and there was no automatic banning without due process. I know @zos_kevin can only tell us so much, but I don't think the general sentiment of apprehension is subdued, people are still worried about this (and beside ads, zone chats are nothing but tumbleweeds lately).8 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I also would have liked to have a definite answer on what happens in private chat - me and myself and Matriarch Runa, for instance - can I call her bad words in vMA "zone chat" after being smashed for the fifth time?
How well does the system respect context?Edited by Varana on 21 September 2024 08:045 -
LikiLoki✭✭✭✭Everyone knows that all rights belong to the owners of the game on this forum. And the post starter has fewer rights to an open topic. If he is afraid of opinions that he does not like, but which are important to the community, that the moderator should refuse to hide the topic.
On the topic: if AI is not able to distinguish the meaning of the same word in different languages, in different groups of people, in different contexts (and it differs not only in meaning, but also in emotional coloring), then these algorithms cannot be used.4 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭On the topic: if AI is not able to distinguish the meaning of the same word in different languages, in different groups of people, in different contexts (and it differs not only in meaning, but also in emotional coloring), then these algorithms cannot be used.
And adding to that, after the latest reply by @ZOS_Kevin : Neither can human employees who are unable to do that.3 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Curious: Were all messages that lead to a ban so far very direct, obvious slurs or sexual terms?
Because the examples I saw were. If it's only these words, we can still discuss whether it's neccessary if no one is affected by them (because no one is present, it's roleplay or consensual banter), but it would be rather simple to avoid, and the worries about being banned for some obscure terms no one knows or some common mild insults (the things no one bats an eye about like "idiot", "stupid", etc) would be unneccessary.
Edited by Syldras on 21 September 2024 12:41@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AngryPenguin wrote: »This whole issue makes me feel like we're all 14 years old and mom just put a hidden camera in our room. You know, just to make sure we're not up to anything she wouldn't approve of.
This reflects the world that many of us live in, though. It is not unexpected that this works it's way into private policies.On the topic: if AI is not able to distinguish the meaning of the same word in different languages, in different groups of people, in different contexts (and it differs not only in meaning, but also in emotional coloring), then these algorithms cannot be used.
The same can be said of humans doing the same work, right? Personally, I think that is the problem, not some AI, tool, or algorithm. As Kevin said, an actual person signed off. Obviously, the mistake is there, and it is there that it needs to be addressed.
1 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »AngryPenguin wrote: »This whole issue makes me feel like we're all 14 years old and mom just put a hidden camera in our room. You know, just to make sure we're not up to anything she wouldn't approve of.
I just keep coming back to the fact that ESO is rated M. That means that adult language and themes are to be expected. It says so right on the front of every box the game has sold in since ever.
One thing to consider is that just because something is rated M, doesn't mean it HAS to contain everything that an M rating covers.
It is up to the developers of that game to decide what they want to allow/include in the game. They can also change their minds if they feel that players are abusing things that they include.
I have seen things rated M simply because they contain a lot of violence. No language or other adult themes involved, just violence.
An M rating means that violence, adult themes and adult language are allowed or excepted. Nobody said an E rating REQUIRES the game to have these things.
As ESO is rated M, then adult language and themes are acceptable content, not required, but acceptable and to be expected.
Edited by CatoUnchained on 21 September 2024 15:456 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭Everyone knows that all rights belong to the owners of the game on this forum. And the post starter has fewer rights to an open topic. If he is afraid of opinions that he does not like, but which are important to the community, that the moderator should refuse to hide the topic.
On the topic: if AI is not able to distinguish the meaning of the same word in different languages, in different groups of people, in different contexts (and it differs not only in meaning, but also in emotional coloring), then these algorithms cannot be used.
Being a customer or consumer does not equate to giving up all rights, including the right to privacy or the right to be respected.
Edited by CatoUnchained on 21 September 2024 15:387 -
JemadarofCaerSalis✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »AngryPenguin wrote: »This whole issue makes me feel like we're all 14 years old and mom just put a hidden camera in our room. You know, just to make sure we're not up to anything she wouldn't approve of.
I just keep coming back to the fact that ESO is rated M. That means that adult language and themes are to be expected. It says so right on the front of every box the game has sold in since ever.
One thing to consider is that just because something is rated M, doesn't mean it HAS to contain everything that an M rating covers.
It is up to the developers of that game to decide what they want to allow/include in the game. They can also change their minds if they feel that players are abusing things that they include.
I have seen things rated M simply because they contain a lot of violence. No language or other adult themes involved, just violence.
An M rating means that violence, adult themes and adult language are allowed or excepted. Nobody said an E rating REQUIRES the game to have these things.
As ESO is rated E, then adult language and themes are acceptable content, not required, but acceptable and to be expected.
That is exactly what I am saying.
I have seen this on multiple sites with higher ratings, where people will complain because something isn't allowed. They will use the 'this site is rated E or M, so therefore X must be allowed.' I was just pointing out that it while the rating allows it, that doesn't mean the site/game/developers have to allow it.1 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »AngryPenguin wrote: »This whole issue makes me feel like we're all 14 years old and mom just put a hidden camera in our room. You know, just to make sure we're not up to anything she wouldn't approve of.
I just keep coming back to the fact that ESO is rated M. That means that adult language and themes are to be expected. It says so right on the front of every box the game has sold in since ever.
One thing to consider is that just because something is rated M, doesn't mean it HAS to contain everything that an M rating covers.
It is up to the developers of that game to decide what they want to allow/include in the game. They can also change their minds if they feel that players are abusing things that they include.
I have seen things rated M simply because they contain a lot of violence. No language or other adult themes involved, just violence.
An M rating means that violence, adult themes and adult language are allowed or excepted. Nobody said an E rating REQUIRES the game to have these things.
As ESO is rated E, then adult language and themes are acceptable content, not required, but acceptable and to be expected.
That is exactly what I am saying.
I have seen this on multiple sites with higher ratings, where people will complain because something isn't allowed. They will use the 'this site is rated E or M, so therefore X must be allowed.' I was just pointing out that it while the rating allows it, that doesn't mean the site/game/developers have to allow it.
The rating allows violence, adult language and adult themes. That means it's wrong if anyone gets banned for using adult language or themes. The game rating allows it, and it's ZOS that gave the game an M rating.4 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »The rating allows violence, adult language and adult themes. That means it's wrong if anyone gets banned for using adult language or themes. The game rating allows it, and it's ZOS that gave the game an M rating.
The rating is for game content made by the developer, not for user communication.
And the ratings aren't made by ZOS either.
Edited by Syldras on 21 September 2024 15:51@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire5 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »The rating allows violence, adult language and adult themes. That means it's wrong if anyone gets banned for using adult language or themes. The game rating allows it, and it's ZOS that gave the game an M rating.
The rating is for game content made by the developer, not for user communication.
And the ratings aren't made by ZOS either.
The ratings are approved by ESRB in the USA, and other agencies in other countries, but the content is determined by ZOS, and that's what determines the rating.
Edited by CatoUnchained on 21 September 2024 16:244 -
JemadarofCaerSalis✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »AngryPenguin wrote: »This whole issue makes me feel like we're all 14 years old and mom just put a hidden camera in our room. You know, just to make sure we're not up to anything she wouldn't approve of.
I just keep coming back to the fact that ESO is rated M. That means that adult language and themes are to be expected. It says so right on the front of every box the game has sold in since ever.
One thing to consider is that just because something is rated M, doesn't mean it HAS to contain everything that an M rating covers.
It is up to the developers of that game to decide what they want to allow/include in the game. They can also change their minds if they feel that players are abusing things that they include.
I have seen things rated M simply because they contain a lot of violence. No language or other adult themes involved, just violence.
An M rating means that violence, adult themes and adult language are allowed or excepted. Nobody said an E rating REQUIRES the game to have these things.
As ESO is rated E, then adult language and themes are acceptable content, not required, but acceptable and to be expected.
That is exactly what I am saying.
I have seen this on multiple sites with higher ratings, where people will complain because something isn't allowed. They will use the 'this site is rated E or M, so therefore X must be allowed.' I was just pointing out that it while the rating allows it, that doesn't mean the site/game/developers have to allow it.
The rating allows violence, adult language and adult themes. That means it's wrong if anyone gets banned for using adult language or themes. The game rating allows it, and it's ZOS that gave the game an M rating.
No it doesn't.
As Syldras said, it isn't ZOS who gave the game that rating, and the rating just means that the game *can* contain certain themes, not that it *does* nor that it *has* to. Typically the rating just means that the game will contain one *or more* things that are categorized under 'adult themes', such as violence, sex, swearing, references to substance use etc...
Also, as Syldras said, it also applies to the developers for their content, and not what the users do. Users have a different set of rules, which is included in the Terms of Service typically, that they have to follow when using the site and/or user communication functionality of the game.3 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »AngryPenguin wrote: »This whole issue makes me feel like we're all 14 years old and mom just put a hidden camera in our room. You know, just to make sure we're not up to anything she wouldn't approve of.
I just keep coming back to the fact that ESO is rated M. That means that adult language and themes are to be expected. It says so right on the front of every box the game has sold in since ever.
One thing to consider is that just because something is rated M, doesn't mean it HAS to contain everything that an M rating covers.
It is up to the developers of that game to decide what they want to allow/include in the game. They can also change their minds if they feel that players are abusing things that they include.
I have seen things rated M simply because they contain a lot of violence. No language or other adult themes involved, just violence.
An M rating means that violence, adult themes and adult language are allowed or excepted. Nobody said an E rating REQUIRES the game to have these things.
As ESO is rated E, then adult language and themes are acceptable content, not required, but acceptable and to be expected.
That is exactly what I am saying.
I have seen this on multiple sites with higher ratings, where people will complain because something isn't allowed. They will use the 'this site is rated E or M, so therefore X must be allowed.' I was just pointing out that it while the rating allows it, that doesn't mean the site/game/developers have to allow it.
The rating allows violence, adult language and adult themes. That means it's wrong if anyone gets banned for using adult language or themes. The game rating allows it, and it's ZOS that gave the game an M rating.
No it doesn't.
As Syldras said, it isn't ZOS who gave the game that rating, and the rating just means that the game *can* contain certain themes, not that it *does* nor that it *has* to. Typically the rating just means that the game will contain one *or more* things that are categorized under 'adult themes', such as violence, sex, swearing, references to substance use etc...
Also, as Syldras said, it also applies to the developers for their content, and not what the users do. Users have a different set of rules, which is included in the Terms of Service typically, that they have to follow when using the site and/or user communication functionality of the game.
The reason people lose their rights is because they aren't willing, for whatever reason, to stand up for themselves and their rights.7 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »The reason people lose their rights is because they aren't willing, for whatever reason, to stand up for themselves and their rights.
It isn't our right, plain and simple. When registering for ESO, all of us have accepted their TOS, including a code of conduct. If it says "no swearing", then it's "no swearing", no matter if I find it silly. It makes no sense to argue against the rules we have signed to be here. I'd rather focus my energy on things that can be changed. Everything else is a waste of time.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire4 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »The reason people lose their rights is because they aren't willing, for whatever reason, to stand up for themselves and their rights.
It isn't our right, plain and simple. When registering for ESO, all of us have accepted their TOS, including a code of conduct. If it says "no swearing", then it's "no swearing", no matter if I find it silly. It makes no sense to argue against the rules we have signed to be here. I'd rather focus my energy on things that can be changed. Everything else is a waste of time.
The ToS doesn't forbid swearing in private chat.4 -
Sleepsin✭✭✭✭Sadly, we will never get a clear definition of the rules. This is how modern censorship works.8
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »The ToS doesn't forbid swearing in private chat.
They forbid "entering" certain types of content. It has all been discussed excessively in the old thread, including quotes from the TOS as a proof. If you want to read it yourself, look at section 8 of the TOS. It's like beating a dead horse at this point.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire4 -
valenwood_vegan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The following is offered for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal advice on any matter.
To folks suggesting that zos "can't" do what they're doing, I suggest closely reading the terms of service and related documents. I don't like that they suddenly decided to, without warning, engage in more strict enforcement and target "private" chats... hopefully the blowback from the players will get them to back off and re-think what they're doing... but it's all there for anyone to read. See, e.g., Section 2 defining "User Generated Content" as well as Section 8, "Rules of Conduct".
[EDIT to add: Since this seems to be coming up again and again - a game's ESRB rating is basically third-party guidance about the content that may be present in the game, and has nothing whatsoever to do with a user's contractual relationship with zos as defined by the terms of service and related documents.
So, more specifically, the "M" rating for ESO states that the game may contain "blood and gore, sexual themes, use of alcohol, violence." It also specifically notes, "Online interactions not rated by the ESRB." The rating is a warning that zos may include the listed types of content in their game and thus it may not be suitable for younger children; it absolutely does not mean they are required to allow users to transmit those types of content in chat.].
Can I state with some kind of certainty that the terms of the ToS are fully in compliance with the law in every country and region? No way, nor would I attempt to offer cracker-jack-box international legal advice on an internet forum. If one believes that the terms are in violation of local laws, I suggest seeking local legal advice or contacting relevant authorities for clarification.Edited by valenwood_vegan on 21 September 2024 20:445 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »AngryPenguin wrote: »This whole issue makes me feel like we're all 14 years old and mom just put a hidden camera in our room. You know, just to make sure we're not up to anything she wouldn't approve of.
I just keep coming back to the fact that ESO is rated M. That means that adult language and themes are to be expected. It says so right on the front of every box the game has sold in since ever.
One thing to consider is that just because something is rated M, doesn't mean it HAS to contain everything that an M rating covers.
It is up to the developers of that game to decide what they want to allow/include in the game. They can also change their minds if they feel that players are abusing things that they include.
I have seen things rated M simply because they contain a lot of violence. No language or other adult themes involved, just violence.
An M rating means that violence, adult themes and adult language are allowed or excepted. Nobody said an E rating REQUIRES the game to have these things.
As ESO is rated E, then adult language and themes are acceptable content, not required, but acceptable and to be expected.
That is exactly what I am saying.
I have seen this on multiple sites with higher ratings, where people will complain because something isn't allowed. They will use the 'this site is rated E or M, so therefore X must be allowed.' I was just pointing out that it while the rating allows it, that doesn't mean the site/game/developers have to allow it.
The irony is that "M" stands for "Mature", which is the very opposite of what some players complain about being pulled up over ! 3 -
Ugrak✭✭✭✭valenwood_vegan wrote: »I don't like that they suddenly decided to, without warning, engage in more strict enforcement and target "private" chats
There is no private chat in ESO. I think it's important to be clear about that. Sure there are channels between individuals, groups, guilds, etc, but the expectation of actual privacy in that service seems unreasonable due to the fact that all channels are exposed to moderation.
This part of the official reply in the closed main thread seems to me to indicate that all chat is subjected to a keyword flagging system or something, that then feeds CS agent workload.The tools used are intended to be preventative, and alert us to serious crimes, hate speech, and extreme cases of harm.
To reiterate, no system is auto-banning players. If an action does occur, it’s because one of our CS agents identified something concerning enough to action on. That can always be appealed through our support ticketing system. And in an instance where you challenge the appeal process, please feel free to flag here on the forum and we can work with you to get to the bottom of the situation.
The answer clearly lands the responsibility on CS.
The CS agent I would assume is the typical mass ticket handling service and may have very limited contextual awareness. If there has been a sudden change in enforcement policy, it could simply boil down to changing CS vendor.
So if that's what is going on, a new CS agent might just be sitting there with the TOS and COC on one hand, and a bunch of seemingly straightforward trangressions in the chatlog, and crucially might simply lack the awareness of any other context to view it in. They're just going to do the work and meet their quota.
A question on top of that already speculative foundation is whether the CS agent has to manually initiate an action, or whether an automated system generates a suggested action that the CS agent then either has to opt into or out of.
It would be understandable if a bias toward action arose if CS workers were simply presented with some message saying "transgression detected, click ok to suspend/ban" Especially if simply being presented with a string of text that would make a pirate blush.8 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The irony is that "M" stands for "Mature", which is the very opposite of what some players complain about being pulled up over !
They should have called the rating "Sex, Drugs and Rock 'n' Roll" instead
Checked the rating for TES Oblivion yesterday out of curiosity, btw. It's M in the US and age 12+ in my country?!
So much for reliability. And cultural differences.
Edited by Syldras on 21 September 2024 18:05@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire0 -
valenwood_vegan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭valenwood_vegan wrote: »I don't like that they suddenly decided to, without warning, engage in more strict enforcement and target "private" chats
There is no private chat in ESO. I think it's important to be clear about that. Sure there are channels between individuals, groups, guilds, etc, but the expectation of actual privacy in that service seems unreasonable due to the fact that all channels are exposed to moderation.
Oh I do agree, which is why I put private in quotes. As I mentioned in the other thread, I think part of the issue is that past lack of enforcement in such chats may have led some players to *believe* that they are private chats.
They clearly are not and were not previously private chats in the sense that they are unmonitored or somehow not subject to the ToS; but if ZoS really does plan on increasing enforcement, I think it would be helpful to share that with players beforehand and/or issue warnings initially.
If, as Kevin suggested, this was a "hiccup", then hopefully the causes behind that will be addressed internally.Edited by valenwood_vegan on 21 September 2024 18:092 -
JemadarofCaerSalis✭✭✭✭The irony is that "M" stands for "Mature", which is the very opposite of what some players complain about being pulled up over !
They should have called the rating "Sex, Drugs and Rock 'n' Roll" instead
Checked the rating for TES Oblivion yesterday out of curiosity, btw. It's M in the US and age 12+ in my country?! So much for reliability. And cultural differences.
Yeah, that is why the ratings aren't really useful, because some things get high ratings, while others don't.
These aren't games, so handled by a different 'body', but I remember seeing R ratings on movies I had watched as a child (and my parents were of a much older generation, so they rarely, VERY VERY rarely ever watched R rated stuff) and was like 'what? R? there was no sex, nudity, violence, profanity? Why.' Closest I could come to it is that someone might have slapped someone in the movie once. (it was a long time ago, and can't remember the movies, it was just so startling to see that)
I have also seen games get higher ratings because they depict cigarette smoking or alcohol consumption, but not have any of the other typical 'adult themes' you think of with an M rated game.0 -
CGPsaint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZoS is probably tired of hearing/reading complaints about IA, but the fact of the matter is that the entire arena feels like a great concept that is unfortunately not finished. I'm not sure what's happened, but since the update I've been experiencing all kinds of issues that make IA more frustration than it's worth, such as:- Companions are no longer taunting marauders. They either run around looking for something to do, or sheath their weapons and stand there while I kite.
- Companions are not bashing interruptible attacks, especially Aramril. I can heavy attack her so that my companion taunts, but they simply will not bash the channeled attack when I go to destroy the crystals.
- The Ghost Light side portal is simple enough in execution, however myself and several buddies have been having issues where ghost lights reset, even if you're standing still. I've completed that portal plenty of times and had zero issues, but this is now happening every single time.
- The Goat Portal is also really easy to complete, unless a sweetroll spawns UNDER THE MAP. Seriously?
- I use Rune of Displacement on my Arcanist and the pull is very hit or miss. Sometimes it works, and often it does not, even within the same stage. Same with immobilizing. I really like "immobilizing" adds that just ignore the immobilization and keep coming.
- I'm not sure what the Pilferer spawn rate is, but seeing it once in 3-4 arcs feels really low, and it happens constantly.
- The Visions/Verses are so watered down that putting together a halfway decent build as you go is even harder now. Is there really a need for Visions that increase XP or gold gains? Why can't Visions be curated in some way shape or form based on whether or now are mag or stam? I feel like I'm fortunate if I see even 1 FE in a 4-5 arc run at this point.
- Melee distance is incredibly inconsistent, especially with marauders.
- Last but not least for this list is the ridiculously low drop rate for furnishing plans, style pages, and leads. At my current rate, I'll probably be sitting on 2+ million Archival Currency before I finish my collection of style pages and furnishing plans.
"Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."2 - Companions are no longer taunting marauders. They either run around looking for something to do, or sheath their weapons and stand there while I kite.
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davidtk✭✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »As ESO is rated M, then adult language and themes are acceptable content, not required, but acceptable and to be expected.
Wait wait wait. ESO have different ratings for different countries.
For MY country ESO have PEGI 18 (so by the our law 18 is adult, so sex, drugs, alcohol, responsibility, kicked from parents house you know, etc...)
PEGI 18
The adult classification is applied when the level of violence reaches a stage where it becomes a depiction of gross violence, apparently motiveless killing, or violence towards defenceless characters. The glamorisation of the use of illegal drugs and of the simulation of gambling, and explicit sexual activity should also fall into this age category.
So ESO is NOT for adults for whole world so they should also take into account what country the person comes from.Really sorry for my english0 -
Warhawke_80✭✭✭✭✭I still believe in the dead internet theory...so no interaction in this game is actually real...@ZOS_Kevin might be real..I mean his language model is pretty vast and they need at least one person to oversee all the databases...
Right?
““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné4 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wait wait wait. ESO have different ratings for different countries.
For MY country ESO have PEGI 18 (so by the our law 18 is adult, so sex, drugs, alcohol, responsibility, kicked from parents house you know, etc...)
PEGI 18
The adult classification is applied when the level of violence reaches a stage where it becomes a depiction of gross violence, apparently motiveless killing, or violence towards defenceless characters. The glamorisation of the use of illegal drugs and of the simulation of gambling, and explicit sexual activity should also fall into this age category.
So ESO is NOT for adults for whole world so they should also take into account what country the person comes from.
But it's the same content that gets a different rating. It's not like it has to be tamer because it's 16+ instead of 18+, for example in Germany. The sentiment in Germany just is that these things are suitable for 16-year-olds. No one here bats an eye about nudity, bawdy jokes or alcohol, for example.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire0 -
endorphinsplox✭✭✭✭valenwood_vegan wrote: »I don't like that they suddenly decided to, without warning, engage in more strict enforcement and target "private" chats
There is no private chat in ESO. I think it's important to be clear about that. Sure there are channels between individuals, groups, guilds, etc, but the expectation of actual privacy in that service seems unreasonable due to the fact that all channels are exposed to moderation.
This part of the official reply in the closed main thread seems to me to indicate that all chat is subjected to a keyword flagging system or something, that then feeds CS agent workload.
I am of the belief that direct communication between players should be kept private, unless a player files a report. Ultimately banning some arbitrary list of words ends up making people less interested in speaking in chats in-game, and they'll end up moving their conversations to a separate platform that ZOS can not moderate, and that players have little to power in individually, since Discord servers and the like are community run and heavily prone to bias.
On top of that, there will no doubt be some who opt to just use other words that the filter doesn't detect and this will cause a shift in how language is used in game since the actual offense is in the intent, not the specific letters and sounds used to form language. Language is ever evolving, and in a game like ESO where it has its own in-world slurs endorsed by BGS and ZOS, its very strange to think that these devs don't understand that offense is taken, not given. Calling anyone you don't like a bunch of Zenimaxes or Bethesdas, might not sound hurtful at first, but it can quickly take root as meaning something other than a couple of development studios.
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