Movement and Speed Must be addressed

DrSlaughtr · October 4

Skulptro wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Skulptro wrote: »

Im a templar main.
I dueled a nightblade one evening. He didn't even use invisibility. I had to chase him to deal any damage, stack my procs, mind the positioning, because he was allways outside of my circles, kyting me. And when he stacks enough ultimate, he presses 2-3 buttons, and Im gone. In one second or so. I won 1 duel of 5-6 may be. And that was really hard and long fight. And if I will go to Open World in my build - I'm screwed. If he goes in his current build - he is fine, running, kyting and deleting after 180 degree turn and 2-3 buttons. While I have to target my jabs, look for some circles on the ground, etc. other one can jst run around on his backbar. Swap bars and press 2 buttons to win.

And this NB had 36k HP. I had 31k. He can stack more health and still do crazy damage. And he was also fast as Speedy Gonzales.

So he was just running around me, nothing I could do. When I charged to him - I'm outside of my circles, I don't get healing, and he bursts me down. GG.

I think more and more frequently about dropping the game.

Respectfully, you made several mistakes.

1. Don't chase runners. They are setting you up.

2. Don't fight outside your circle. You are vulnerable to burst damage if your main defensive focus is circle.

3. Dueling is sweaty business and isn't indicative of anything. PVP comes down to who makes the first mistake that the other person takes advantage of. That's the great and worse thing about it. Most of the time when a player dies in pvp, it was immediately preceded by a misstep. Not blocking on a flag. Not watching flank while kiting a rock. Sitting blindly on siege during battle. Missing hitting a heal in the middle of getting burst down.

It's easier to blame the other person for doing something "wrong" than consider what we could have done better to win.

So I just have to wait, until this Speedy Gonzales pokes 500 ult Balorg from his ice staff, while being out of my reach? No any HoT can save from such a burst. Not even sure, how I managed to win one duel out of 6. But ofc it's my mistakes, not like templar is trash due to ZOS poor balancing.

If you're running sweep/jabs you either need a gap closer or a pull. If you use a gap closer then you need to figure out another way to defend that doesn't rely so hard on Focus.

Temps are designed to be healers first and foremost. You have to use that to your advantage. Defend and out heal until they blow their ultimate. Their resources will run dry and then you can push them with pressure.

MincMincMinc · October 4

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics

average build walking(run) movement speed is too high
Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic
skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc
Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

DrSlaughtr · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

MincMincMinc · October 4

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

No base speed is still 100. The average build speed with typical investment is what is too high. You can read above for the breakdowns, but here's the summary again. Take off

Old Stamsorc had 10%(minor)+30%(pots) === 40% (base speed was at 90% instead of 100% so -10% depending on patch)
New stamsorc has 15%(minor)+30%(rats)+10/11%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+7%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 62%-92%
My OP Proposed 8%(minor)+15%(maj)+5%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+5%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 35%-58%

Basically my proposal lands the values directly between pre summerset and the current value of movement speed. If you so choose you can still hit cap, but to do so investment is actually needed.

DrSlaughtr · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

No base speed is still 100. The average build speed with typical investment is what is too high. You can read above for the breakdowns, but here's the summary again. Take off
Old Stamsorc had 10%(minor)+30%(pots) === 40% (base speed was at 90% instead of 100% so -10% depending on patch)

New stamsorc has 15%(minor)+30%(rats)+10/11%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+7%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 62%-92%

My OP Proposed 8%(minor)+15%(maj)+5%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+5%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 35%-58%

Basically my proposal lands the values directly between pre summerset and the current value of movement speed. If you so choose you can still hit cap, but to do so investment is actually needed.

So you want to punish people who sacrifice damage and/or survivability to have better movement so they can be easier to hit in melee?

This isn't a tab targeting game and that's why it has the best combat out there and what sets it different. If you are going to nerf movement to the point that you can just blindly swing at people then you might as well have tab targeting.

Bashev · October 4

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

No base speed is still 100. The average build speed with typical investment is what is too high. You can read above for the breakdowns, but here's the summary again. Take off
Old Stamsorc had 10%(minor)+30%(pots) === 40% (base speed was at 90% instead of 100% so -10% depending on patch)

New stamsorc has 15%(minor)+30%(rats)+10/11%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+7%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 62%-92%

My OP Proposed 8%(minor)+15%(maj)+5%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+5%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 35%-58%

Basically my proposal lands the values directly between pre summerset and the current value of movement speed. If you so choose you can still hit cap, but to do so investment is actually needed.

So you want to punish people who sacrifice damage and/or survivability to have better movement so they can be easier to hit in melee?

This isn't a tab targeting game and that's why it has the best combat out there and what sets it different. If you are going to nerf movement to the point that you can just blindly swing at people then you might as well have tab targeting.

You dont sacrifice survivability if you stack speed

It is the other way around.

CameraBeardThePirate · October 4

Bashev wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

No base speed is still 100. The average build speed with typical investment is what is too high. You can read above for the breakdowns, but here's the summary again. Take off
Old Stamsorc had 10%(minor)+30%(pots) === 40% (base speed was at 90% instead of 100% so -10% depending on patch)

New stamsorc has 15%(minor)+30%(rats)+10/11%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+7%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 62%-92%

My OP Proposed 8%(minor)+15%(maj)+5%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+5%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 35%-58%

Basically my proposal lands the values directly between pre summerset and the current value of movement speed. If you so choose you can still hit cap, but to do so investment is actually needed.

So you want to punish people who sacrifice damage and/or survivability to have better movement so they can be easier to hit in melee?

This isn't a tab targeting game and that's why it has the best combat out there and what sets it different. If you are going to nerf movement to the point that you can just blindly swing at people then you might as well have tab targeting.

You dont sacrifice survivability if you stack speed It is the other way around.

This. Movement speed is survivability.

Joy_Division · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Still just baffles me that people want to advocate for stat creep, especially when it isn't a simple counter.

How is this baffling? Players prefer to be fast. Slow is boring. We have been so accustomed to moving fast that any adjustment if going to feel like a nerf. It's always that way for power creep.

You are trying to convince them that removing some element of the power creep is better for the game. I do happen to agree with you. But that's going to be a tough sell for people who already feel like they, their builds, their class, their playstyle, etc., are not powerful enough

Synapsis123 · October 4

I've seen a bunch of changes proposed in this thread, but not an actual reason why it needs to be addressed. The title of the thread is "Movement and Speed Must be addressed", but never actually says why it needs to be addressed. Why change everything so drastically when there isn't any actual issue?

On top of that if your plan is to slow down the movement in pvp you are going to have to also nerf streak, vault, and vamp mist. You never actually address that. Sorc already has a decent position in the meta and would become THE META if your changes were to go through.

This change doesn't actually solve any problems because there are no problems. It only serves to *** off the majority of the player base and drive people to other games.

MincMincMinc · October 4

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

No base speed is still 100. The average build speed with typical investment is what is too high. You can read above for the breakdowns, but here's the summary again. Take off
Old Stamsorc had 10%(minor)+30%(pots) === 40% (base speed was at 90% instead of 100% so -10% depending on patch)

New stamsorc has 15%(minor)+30%(rats)+10/11%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+7%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 62%-92%

My OP Proposed 8%(minor)+15%(maj)+5%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+5%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 35%-58%

Basically my proposal lands the values directly between pre summerset and the current value of movement speed. If you so choose you can still hit cap, but to do so investment is actually needed.

So you want to punish people who sacrifice damage and/or survivability to have better movement so they can be easier to hit in melee?

This isn't a tab targeting game and that's why it has the best combat out there and what sets it different. If you are going to nerf movement to the point that you can just blindly swing at people then you might as well have tab targeting.

That dynamic would still exist under my proposal wdym? Yes it would make melee combat more consistent, that's the main reasoning to make skill hit registration functionally consistent again. It isn't like only your speed would be reduced.... (Back when the movement was more consistent you rarely had players spec into speed. Which means your average was lower and even with lower values, people who specced into speed had even MORE survivability) If you reread my first post I talked about CONSISTENCY being the reason average players are even running speed. The snare/root/counterplay being garbage makes people want to overcompensate with raw movement speed.

How does a slower (mind you only halfway to presummerset) movement speed make the game tab target? This game was at 1/3 the movement speed when it gained popularity and praise for its action combat system.

Synapsis123 · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

No base speed is still 100. The average build speed with typical investment is what is too high. You can read above for the breakdowns, but here's the summary again. Take off
Old Stamsorc had 10%(minor)+30%(pots) === 40% (base speed was at 90% instead of 100% so -10% depending on patch)

New stamsorc has 15%(minor)+30%(rats)+10/11%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+7%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 62%-92%

My OP Proposed 8%(minor)+15%(maj)+5%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+5%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 35%-58%

Basically my proposal lands the values directly between pre summerset and the current value of movement speed. If you so choose you can still hit cap, but to do so investment is actually needed.

So you want to punish people who sacrifice damage and/or survivability to have better movement so they can be easier to hit in melee?

This isn't a tab targeting game and that's why it has the best combat out there and what sets it different. If you are going to nerf movement to the point that you can just blindly swing at people then you might as well have tab targeting.

That dynamic would still exist under my proposal wdym? Yes it would make melee combat more consistent, that's the main reasoning to make skill hit registration functionally consistent again. It isn't like only your speed would be reduced.... (Back when the movement was more consistent you rarely had players spec into speed. Which means your average was lower and even with lower values, people who specced into speed had even MORE survivability) If you reread my first post I talked about CONSISTENCY being the reason average players are even running speed. The snare/root/counterplay being garbage makes people want to overcompensate with raw movement speed.

How does a slower (mind you only halfway to presummerset) movement speed make the game tab target? This game was at 1/3 the movement speed when it gained popularity and praise for its action combat system.

The game has changed since then and is much faster paced. You can't make the movement speed slower without making the damage and healing slower. The pvp population at this point is consistent and generally all the same people. You seem to be one of the only people with this problem. Drastically changing everything at this point to address a problem that doesn't exist would only drive the remaining consistent pvp population away.

MincMincMinc · October 4

Synapsis123 wrote: »

I've seen a bunch of changes proposed in this thread, but not an actual reason why it needs to be addressed. The title of the thread is "Movement and Speed Must be addressed", but never actually says why it needs to be addressed. Why change everything so drastically when there isn't any actual issue?

On top of that if your plan is to slow down the movement in pvp you are going to have to also nerf streak, vault, and vamp mist. You never actually address that. Sorc already has a decent position in the meta and would become THE META if your changes were to go through.

This change doesn't actually solve any problems because there are no problems. It only serves to *** off the majority of the player base and drive people to other games.

You cant edit first posts. The reasoning was listed in the spoiler history and stated multiple times throughout the thread. Sadly people dont like to read anymore.

skill, hit registration not only in pvp, but it happens in pve as well
sprint able to be ignored as a mechanic because you can be at cap just by running
Gap closers being passed on because you can run fast enough to not bother.
combat consistency (delta speeds for scenarios such as rooted vs run vs snared vs sprint) "the redlight, greenlight" 0-100mph type of consistency.

Movement skills such as streak, mist were already balanced and perfectly fine. Gap closers were direct counter to those skills already with their range and cost structure. Sorc's big 'meta' is from the shield changes which were a crazy idea.

MincMincMinc · October 4

Synapsis123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

No base speed is still 100. The average build speed with typical investment is what is too high. You can read above for the breakdowns, but here's the summary again. Take off
Old Stamsorc had 10%(minor)+30%(pots) === 40% (base speed was at 90% instead of 100% so -10% depending on patch)

New stamsorc has 15%(minor)+30%(rats)+10/11%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+7%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 62%-92%

My OP Proposed 8%(minor)+15%(maj)+5%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+5%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 35%-58%

Basically my proposal lands the values directly between pre summerset and the current value of movement speed. If you so choose you can still hit cap, but to do so investment is actually needed.

So you want to punish people who sacrifice damage and/or survivability to have better movement so they can be easier to hit in melee?

This isn't a tab targeting game and that's why it has the best combat out there and what sets it different. If you are going to nerf movement to the point that you can just blindly swing at people then you might as well have tab targeting.

That dynamic would still exist under my proposal wdym? Yes it would make melee combat more consistent, that's the main reasoning to make skill hit registration functionally consistent again. It isn't like only your speed would be reduced.... (Back when the movement was more consistent you rarely had players spec into speed. Which means your average was lower and even with lower values, people who specced into speed had even MORE survivability) If you reread my first post I talked about CONSISTENCY being the reason average players are even running speed. The snare/root/counterplay being garbage makes people want to overcompensate with raw movement speed.

How does a slower (mind you only halfway to presummerset) movement speed make the game tab target? This game was at 1/3 the movement speed when it gained popularity and praise for its action combat system.

The game has changed since then and is much faster paced. You can't make the movement speed slower without making the damage and healing slower. The pvp population at this point is consistent and generally all the same people. You seem to be one of the only people with this problem. Drastically changing everything at this point to address a problem that doesn't exist would only drive the remaining consistent pvp population away.

I disagree, the ttk can be independent of movement speed. If anything making players less prone to breaking engagements would help improve the ttk "tank" meta many cry about.

EDIT: Movement speed would be FAR FAR FAR more directly linked to:

map size, layouts(keep, dungeon, maze mechanics, etc)
Skill ranges
Aoe Ranges
Set Proc ranges

sarahthes · October 4

VixxVexx wrote: »

Player speed is a problem. The game clearly can't handle it so we have to deal with positional desyncs.

Personally, I don't think a handful of hardmode trial mechanics are a good counter-argument.
You don't adjust the game according to a couple of small instances, you adjust the small instances for the whole game.
Example: Adress movement speed, then tweak the monsters in those 5 hardmodes.

Lucent HM is a literal foot race. The trial would need to be redesigned from the ground up.

MincMincMinc · October 4

sarahthes wrote: »

VixxVexx wrote: »

Player speed is a problem. The game clearly can't handle it so we have to deal with positional desyncs.

Personally, I don't think a handful of hardmode trial mechanics are a good counter-argument.
You don't adjust the game according to a couple of small instances, you adjust the small instances for the whole game.
Example: Adress movement speed, then tweak the monsters in those 5 hardmodes.

Lucent HM is a literal foot race. The trial would need to be redesigned from the ground up.

You act like mechanics cant be adjusted or players cant just compensate their builds/strategy. The proposal brings the average speed to a rate where sprint would be an actual function of the game. Arguing to balance the entire game off of one or two easily addressable trial mechanics is silly.

sarahthes · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

VixxVexx wrote: »

Player speed is a problem. The game clearly can't handle it so we have to deal with positional desyncs.

Personally, I don't think a handful of hardmode trial mechanics are a good counter-argument.
You don't adjust the game according to a couple of small instances, you adjust the small instances for the whole game.
Example: Adress movement speed, then tweak the monsters in those 5 hardmodes.

Lucent HM is a literal foot race. The trial would need to be redesigned from the ground up.

You act like mechanics cant be adjusted or players cant just compensate their builds/strategy. The proposal brings the average speed to a rate where sprint would be an actual function of the game. Arguing to balance the entire game off of one or two easily addressable trial mechanics is silly.

I would agree more with you if the devs hadn't developed an entire trial around running as fast as you can from the end back to the start, because if you're too slow the enemies start light attacking for 80K.

Especially since the whole reason you started this thread is because you're mad you can't hit people in PvP.

Renato90085 · October 4

I think only PvP want slow so
when battle spirit is active you cant have any speed buff?

Wuuffyy · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Must be addressed? Because of what you said? Hahahahahahahaha!

But in all seriousness, no-one wants a slower game b/c some people that want to mow over people with their group uncontested want players slowed down.

Being fast or slow is always relative. A slower average speed is basically like a direct multiplier to gap-closer and pull efficiency. It also affects the melee/ranged power relationship, which currently feels a bit lopsided due to the melee multipliers not quite balancing the range advantages.

I think alleging nefarious intentions is not quite fair after he made such an effort to explain his reasoning nicely.

In the last thread that was made on combat mechs, etc. (seeing a trend with nerf threads here?), multiple individuals expressed sentiment and testimony to the exact affect where I retrieved that information for the comment from.

Whether or not they dissuade disbelief by hiding that agenda (I know that no sane solo/small-scale player is asking for this) is beyond the point.

You're right in the sense that general speed is relative. But groups of players have much easier access to snares and have less incentive to move quickly over longer distances (as it's counterintuitive to move away from group protection and heals which are already a very significant, well-known issue).

Just to reconfirm, I am a 1vX to small group 2h stamsorc player since beta. I have always played movement based playstyles through the worst and best metas....even in duels. As I broke it down in the OP it is not purely just movement speed, but the consistency that needs to be addressed. It doesn't seem like anyone has an issue with rewarding snare and root counterplay? It would be healthy all around.

IMO arguing movement speed ball groups vs pugs is silly. A well coordinated 10 man will always beat 40 people with no idea what is going on. It isn't speed, but simple coordinated direction calls that keeps them alive. Other aspects like Hots stacking and the ridiculous efficiency of group sets would be better topics to open threads about if you want to level the playing field against ball groups. There were coordinated groups back in the first half decade and there are coordinated groups now, that aspect hasn't changed. If anything speed reduction would favor the pugs, whos reaction time needs the help.

You can refer to the original post for the main reasoning to standardize speed. It isnt like you cant build for speed under my proposed change. Before summerset running speed would be 0-40% bonus. Now adays most players by default are at 50-90%. My proposed is a middleground between them that atleast brings the game physics back to a sensible speed vs map ratio. Without sprinting, I shouldnt be moving fast enough to fly down stairs instead of walking.... Or be able to move fast enough to begin dizzy swing, walk outside of their cast range, and then walk back in to make sure it hits. As funny as it is.

I'm not trying to WIN against the ridiculously large and organized group... I'm trying to survive to live another day. Staying near that group for more than 3 seconds and especially without cover is an instant death, ult-dumped 'I win' for that group.

I want the ability to move on once the organized group leader decided they want to sick the pack on on me. I shouldn't HAVE TO die just b/c a group is near me.

It's very silly if you can't see what I'm referring to here.

Wuuffyy · October 4

...Oh well, this thread is too large now and the only feedback 'ZOS' listens to anymore are these large 'nerf' threads. Goodbye movement speed! Glad the non-largely vocal group/the group with actual facts that are also paying customers once again had no choice in any matter (because once again OP943221233 decided it's time to cut something for EVERYONE that's been in the game FOR YEARS); super nice!

ESO_player123 · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Still just baffles me that people want to advocate for stat creep, especially when it isn't a simple counter. Like if damage creeps, bosses just get higher health. Speed is not so simple. Even if the servers had no issue, its not like they can just throw a multiplier on the map size and player size.

Well, they could.....it would just be the worst way possible to make the adjustment.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Swift should be 5%? Do not even think about touching my ring of the Wild Hunt. I like to get as fast as possible wherever I'm going.
As others have said, if it's an issue in PvP, propose the changes under battle spirit. I do not see many people complaining about speed in PvE.

To rehash the same argument. Zos has stated that they don't want gameplay to differ between pve and pvp many times. Dont you think they would have taken that cop-out at any point in the past 10 years of people complaining about far more controversial issues?

My proposal doesn't touch the speed cap, you can still build for speed if you wanted to. You could still use the inefficient wild hunt if that's your thing. If you are asking to not touch the incombat movement speed because you like the out of combat movement speed....that is not a reasonable excuse to not have a functioning game. You could still easily achieve cap for out of combat builds with sprint speed.

My proposed values aren't even extreme, we still would be near double the pre summerset average movement speed.

Regardless of what the devs said about balancing PvP and PvE together, it's mostly PvPers that request nerfs (all you need to do is read the PTS forums to see this). So, if you see a problem in PvP with something, advocate for that and may be PvErs will not be so frustrated with all the changes they are getting because of PvP.

I do not see why some changes can't be made under battle spirit only. If I'm not mistaken, there are already some restrictions like that in the game.

MincMincMinc · October 4

ESO_player123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Still just baffles me that people want to advocate for stat creep, especially when it isn't a simple counter. Like if damage creeps, bosses just get higher health. Speed is not so simple. Even if the servers had no issue, its not like they can just throw a multiplier on the map size and player size.

Well, they could.....it would just be the worst way possible to make the adjustment.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Swift should be 5%? Do not even think about touching my ring of the Wild Hunt. I like to get as fast as possible wherever I'm going.
As others have said, if it's an issue in PvP, propose the changes under battle spirit. I do not see many people complaining about speed in PvE.

To rehash the same argument. Zos has stated that they don't want gameplay to differ between pve and pvp many times. Dont you think they would have taken that cop-out at any point in the past 10 years of people complaining about far more controversial issues?

My proposal doesn't touch the speed cap, you can still build for speed if you wanted to. You could still use the inefficient wild hunt if that's your thing. If you are asking to not touch the incombat movement speed because you like the out of combat movement speed....that is not a reasonable excuse to not have a functioning game. You could still easily achieve cap for out of combat builds with sprint speed.

My proposed values aren't even extreme, we still would be near double the pre summerset average movement speed.

Regardless of what the devs said about balancing PvP and PvE together, it's mostly PvPers that request nerfs (all you need to do is read the PTS forums to see this). So, if you see a problem in PvP with something, advocate for that and may be PvErs will not be so frustrated with all the changes they are getting because of PvP.

I do not see why some changes can't be made under battle spirit only. If I'm not mistaken, there are already some restrictions like that in the game.

Well inherently pvp is directly hurt by power creep issues and players complain about it breaking the game. PVE just accepts it and moves the bar higher because they feel like they improved with each passing dlc creep. Go play an older dungeon vs a newer one and tell me they are balanced. You and everyone else can agree that the old dungeons are boring and terrible because they fell so far out of tension with the current state of the game. When was the last time you died to bloodspawn dps race? It is poor game management that allows creep to happen due to the lack of early design standards being held. The only correction path is to standardize and pick a reasonable bar.

Zos just wants the game to play similarly in pve and pvp. The battlespirit is just a blanket cut to make damage and tankiness feel similar to open zone pve play. Speed would not vary between pve and pvp, thus it would never be addressed through battlespirit

@Wuuffyy There are and were plenty of methods of getting away from groups. Again it isn't only your speed that is being reduced. Every source would follow a standard set to soft limit choices of run speed to at or below 160% +40% sprinting. Plenty of players 1vXed and survived against large groups back in the day, this playstyle isn't anything new. If anything there were far more 1vX players before. If you want to discuss disengagement mechanics I am surprised you did not want to agree with the proposed snare/root immunity adjustments.

Just because your stat sheets are being reduced doesn't mean the game is worse. Although the power creep advocates seem to disagree.

sarahthes · October 4

Old content absolutely should be power crept. Otherwise the game has zero progression at all.

Endgame should be balanced around the average HM or trifecta progression groups for Rockgrove, Dreadsail, Sanity's Edge, and Lucent.

ESO_player123 · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Still just baffles me that people want to advocate for stat creep, especially when it isn't a simple counter. Like if damage creeps, bosses just get higher health. Speed is not so simple. Even if the servers had no issue, its not like they can just throw a multiplier on the map size and player size.

Well, they could.....it would just be the worst way possible to make the adjustment.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Swift should be 5%? Do not even think about touching my ring of the Wild Hunt. I like to get as fast as possible wherever I'm going.
As others have said, if it's an issue in PvP, propose the changes under battle spirit. I do not see many people complaining about speed in PvE.

To rehash the same argument. Zos has stated that they don't want gameplay to differ between pve and pvp many times. Dont you think they would have taken that cop-out at any point in the past 10 years of people complaining about far more controversial issues?

My proposal doesn't touch the speed cap, you can still build for speed if you wanted to. You could still use the inefficient wild hunt if that's your thing. If you are asking to not touch the incombat movement speed because you like the out of combat movement speed....that is not a reasonable excuse to not have a functioning game. You could still easily achieve cap for out of combat builds with sprint speed.

My proposed values aren't even extreme, we still would be near double the pre summerset average movement speed.

Regardless of what the devs said about balancing PvP and PvE together, it's mostly PvPers that request nerfs (all you need to do is read the PTS forums to see this). So, if you see a problem in PvP with something, advocate for that and may be PvErs will not be so frustrated with all the changes they are getting because of PvP.

I do not see why some changes can't be made under battle spirit only. If I'm not mistaken, there are already some restrictions like that in the game.

Well inherently pvp is directly hurt by power creep issues and players complain about it breaking the game. PVE just accepts it and moves the bar higher because they feel like they improved with each passing dlc creep. Go play an older dungeon vs a newer one and tell me they are balanced. You and everyone else can agree that the old dungeons are boring and terrible because they fell so far out of tension with the current state of the game. When was the last time you died to bloodspawn dps race? It is poor game management that allows creep to happen due to the lack of early design standards being held. The only correction path is to standardize and pick a reasonable bar.

Zos just wants the game to play similarly in pve and pvp. The battlespirit is just a blanket cut to make damage and tankiness feel similar to open zone pve play. Speed would not vary between pve and pvp, thus it would never be addressed through battlespirit

@Wuuffyy There are and were plenty of methods of getting away from groups. Again it isn't only your speed that is being reduced. Every source would follow a standard set to soft limit choices of run speed to at or below 160% +40% sprinting. Plenty of players 1vXed and survived against large groups back in the day, this playstyle isn't anything new. If anything there were far more 1vX players before. If you want to discuss disengagement mechanics I am surprised you did not want to agree with the proposed snare/root immunity adjustments.

Just because your stat sheets are being reduced doesn't mean the game is worse. Although the power creep advocates seem to disagree.

I agree that PvP is affected. However, you still did not answer why you do not advocate for the changes under the battle spirit and insist on affecting PvE too.

As for old dungeons, yes, they are easy. But they do not drop anything useful for the game anymore (except for the one time skill point). So, if suddenly Fungal grotto becomes difficult again, what would be the point of even going there without changing the rewards?

MincMincMinc · October 4

sarahthes wrote: »

Old content absolutely should be power crept. Otherwise the game has zero progression at all.

Endgame should be balanced around the average HM or trifecta progression groups for Rockgrove, Dreadsail, Sanity's Edge, and Lucent.

Ok so you are all for power creep, then we will just never agree in that aspect.

I would concede that health and damage creep can be acceptable as this solely affects ttk windows dlc to dlc, but not speed. Speed should have always had a standard expected rate which is dictated based on the physics engine capabilities, skill ranges, effects, etc. Those values that the stat should be based on do not change as easily as a monster health integer value.

MincMincMinc · October 4

ESO_player123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Still just baffles me that people want to advocate for stat creep, especially when it isn't a simple counter. Like if damage creeps, bosses just get higher health. Speed is not so simple. Even if the servers had no issue, its not like they can just throw a multiplier on the map size and player size.

Well, they could.....it would just be the worst way possible to make the adjustment.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Swift should be 5%? Do not even think about touching my ring of the Wild Hunt. I like to get as fast as possible wherever I'm going.
As others have said, if it's an issue in PvP, propose the changes under battle spirit. I do not see many people complaining about speed in PvE.

To rehash the same argument. Zos has stated that they don't want gameplay to differ between pve and pvp many times. Dont you think they would have taken that cop-out at any point in the past 10 years of people complaining about far more controversial issues?

My proposal doesn't touch the speed cap, you can still build for speed if you wanted to. You could still use the inefficient wild hunt if that's your thing. If you are asking to not touch the incombat movement speed because you like the out of combat movement speed....that is not a reasonable excuse to not have a functioning game. You could still easily achieve cap for out of combat builds with sprint speed.

My proposed values aren't even extreme, we still would be near double the pre summerset average movement speed.

Regardless of what the devs said about balancing PvP and PvE together, it's mostly PvPers that request nerfs (all you need to do is read the PTS forums to see this). So, if you see a problem in PvP with something, advocate for that and may be PvErs will not be so frustrated with all the changes they are getting because of PvP.

I do not see why some changes can't be made under battle spirit only. If I'm not mistaken, there are already some restrictions like that in the game.

Well inherently pvp is directly hurt by power creep issues and players complain about it breaking the game. PVE just accepts it and moves the bar higher because they feel like they improved with each passing dlc creep. Go play an older dungeon vs a newer one and tell me they are balanced. You and everyone else can agree that the old dungeons are boring and terrible because they fell so far out of tension with the current state of the game. When was the last time you died to bloodspawn dps race? It is poor game management that allows creep to happen due to the lack of early design standards being held. The only correction path is to standardize and pick a reasonable bar.

Zos just wants the game to play similarly in pve and pvp. The battlespirit is just a blanket cut to make damage and tankiness feel similar to open zone pve play. Speed would not vary between pve and pvp, thus it would never be addressed through battlespirit

@Wuuffyy There are and were plenty of methods of getting away from groups. Again it isn't only your speed that is being reduced. Every source would follow a standard set to soft limit choices of run speed to at or below 160% +40% sprinting. Plenty of players 1vXed and survived against large groups back in the day, this playstyle isn't anything new. If anything there were far more 1vX players before. If you want to discuss disengagement mechanics I am surprised you did not want to agree with the proposed snare/root immunity adjustments.

Just because your stat sheets are being reduced doesn't mean the game is worse. Although the power creep advocates seem to disagree.

I agree that PvP is affected. However, you still did not answer why you do not advocate for the changes under the battle spirit and insist on affecting PvE too.

As for old dungeons, yes, they are easy. But they do not drop anything useful for the game anymore (except for the one time skill point). So, if suddenly Fungal grotto becomes difficult again, what would be the point of even going there without changing the rewards?

Honestly I would be fine if it went through battlespirit. I just know zos would never do it that way as they have stated their usage of battlespirit is to keep the gameplay the same between pve and pvp. They do not want two different games as much as possible.

Really we only came up with 1 or two trial scenarios that may become more difficult. I still think they would be possible, but for sure harder if left untouched..... Much easier to adjust one or two trial mechanics than fixing the latency and registration issues across the whole game. Again I cant stress this enough, if you actually understand and compare the values, you would still be averaging faster speed than pre summerset.

There is no point to go to any dungeon unless there is incentive behind it. Even new dlc dungeons. Every dungeon still has incentive through various(not my favourite either) methods like dailies, mythics, pledges and so on. I must have ran blackheart haven 500+ times to get bonepirate when that was meta. I still find myself running the dungeon every now and then though. You probably dont agree/like rerunning old content, but from an mmo standpoint it would be unhealthy to your new playerbase to abandon and uninhabit this content>> the intent of dailies and such.

ESO_player123 · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Still just baffles me that people want to advocate for stat creep, especially when it isn't a simple counter. Like if damage creeps, bosses just get higher health. Speed is not so simple. Even if the servers had no issue, its not like they can just throw a multiplier on the map size and player size.

Well, they could.....it would just be the worst way possible to make the adjustment.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Swift should be 5%? Do not even think about touching my ring of the Wild Hunt. I like to get as fast as possible wherever I'm going.
As others have said, if it's an issue in PvP, propose the changes under battle spirit. I do not see many people complaining about speed in PvE.

To rehash the same argument. Zos has stated that they don't want gameplay to differ between pve and pvp many times. Dont you think they would have taken that cop-out at any point in the past 10 years of people complaining about far more controversial issues?

My proposal doesn't touch the speed cap, you can still build for speed if you wanted to. You could still use the inefficient wild hunt if that's your thing. If you are asking to not touch the incombat movement speed because you like the out of combat movement speed....that is not a reasonable excuse to not have a functioning game. You could still easily achieve cap for out of combat builds with sprint speed.

My proposed values aren't even extreme, we still would be near double the pre summerset average movement speed.

Regardless of what the devs said about balancing PvP and PvE together, it's mostly PvPers that request nerfs (all you need to do is read the PTS forums to see this). So, if you see a problem in PvP with something, advocate for that and may be PvErs will not be so frustrated with all the changes they are getting because of PvP.

I do not see why some changes can't be made under battle spirit only. If I'm not mistaken, there are already some restrictions like that in the game.

Well inherently pvp is directly hurt by power creep issues and players complain about it breaking the game. PVE just accepts it and moves the bar higher because they feel like they improved with each passing dlc creep. Go play an older dungeon vs a newer one and tell me they are balanced. You and everyone else can agree that the old dungeons are boring and terrible because they fell so far out of tension with the current state of the game. When was the last time you died to bloodspawn dps race? It is poor game management that allows creep to happen due to the lack of early design standards being held. The only correction path is to standardize and pick a reasonable bar.

Zos just wants the game to play similarly in pve and pvp. The battlespirit is just a blanket cut to make damage and tankiness feel similar to open zone pve play. Speed would not vary between pve and pvp, thus it would never be addressed through battlespirit

@Wuuffyy There are and were plenty of methods of getting away from groups. Again it isn't only your speed that is being reduced. Every source would follow a standard set to soft limit choices of run speed to at or below 160% +40% sprinting. Plenty of players 1vXed and survived against large groups back in the day, this playstyle isn't anything new. If anything there were far more 1vX players before. If you want to discuss disengagement mechanics I am surprised you did not want to agree with the proposed snare/root immunity adjustments.

Just because your stat sheets are being reduced doesn't mean the game is worse. Although the power creep advocates seem to disagree.

I agree that PvP is affected. However, you still did not answer why you do not advocate for the changes under the battle spirit and insist on affecting PvE too.

As for old dungeons, yes, they are easy. But they do not drop anything useful for the game anymore (except for the one time skill point). So, if suddenly Fungal grotto becomes difficult again, what would be the point of even going there without changing the rewards?

Honestly I would be fine if it went through battlespirit. I just know zos would never do it that way as they have stated their usage of battlespirit is to keep the gameplay the same between pve and pvp. They do not want two different games as much as possible.

Really we only came up with 1 or two trial scenarios that may become more difficult. I still think they would be possible, but for sure harder if left untouched..... Much easier to adjust one or two trial mechanics than fixing the latency and registration issues across the whole game. Again I cant stress this enough, if you actually understand and compare the values, you would still be averaging faster speed than pre summerset.

There is no point to go to any dungeon unless there is incentive behind it. Even new dlc dungeons. Every dungeon still has incentive through various(not my favourite either) methods like dailies, mythics, pledges and so on. I must have ran blackheart haven 500+ times to get bonepirate when that was meta. I still find myself running the dungeon every now and then though. You probably dont agree/like rerunning old content, but from an mmo standpoint it would be unhealthy to your new playerbase to abandon and uninhabit this content>> the intent of dailies and such.

We will have to agree to disagree. I have not played pre summerset, so I do not even want to think how slow the movement was then. I can tell you that I'm very much annoyed with the speed of my toons that do not use ring of the wild hunt for their daily activities. So, I will be the first to complain on the forums if swift was changed so that PvP could feel more balanced.

sarahthes · October 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Old content absolutely should be power crept. Otherwise the game has zero progression at all.

Endgame should be balanced around the average HM or trifecta progression groups for Rockgrove, Dreadsail, Sanity's Edge, and Lucent.

Ok so you are all for power creep, then we will just never agree in that aspect.

I would concede that health and damage creep can be acceptable as this solely affects ttk windows dlc to dlc, but not speed. Speed should have always had a standard expected rate which is dictated based on the physics engine capabilities, skill ranges, effects, etc. Those values that the stat should be based on do not change as easily as a monster health integer value.

Speed cap has been the same for years now. It's not being power crept in quite the same way. More ways to get major and minor expedition isn't really creep, and there are not that many unique speed buffs as they all wind up getting turned into major or minor expedition.

That said there's not a huge number of sources of additional speed buffs, and they all result in giving something else up. I really think it's balanced properly for that reason.

DrSlaughtr · October 4

Bashev wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

No base speed is still 100. The average build speed with typical investment is what is too high. You can read above for the breakdowns, but here's the summary again. Take off
Old Stamsorc had 10%(minor)+30%(pots) === 40% (base speed was at 90% instead of 100% so -10% depending on patch)

New stamsorc has 15%(minor)+30%(rats)+10/11%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+7%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 62%-92%

My OP Proposed 8%(minor)+15%(maj)+5%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+5%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 35%-58%

Basically my proposal lands the values directly between pre summerset and the current value of movement speed. If you so choose you can still hit cap, but to do so investment is actually needed.

So you want to punish people who sacrifice damage and/or survivability to have better movement so they can be easier to hit in melee?

This isn't a tab targeting game and that's why it has the best combat out there and what sets it different. If you are going to nerf movement to the point that you can just blindly swing at people then you might as well have tab targeting.

You dont sacrifice survivability if you stack speed It is the other way around.

Yes you do. You are focused on maneuverability. I am talking about healing and armor, not avoiding incoming damage. I am talking about sacrificing damage (such as bloodthirsty) for swift. These are sacrifices. I give up 350x3 bloodthirsty damage for 3 swift so that I can reach a target before they reposition out of melee range, which happens frequently.

If I put on my other setup, which uses wild hunt, I am giving up access to another mythic, a monster set, or two 5 piece front bars.

Going for speed comes at the cost of armor, healing or damage, or all three. That is the deterrent.

If you choose not to build for even a little speed, that is your decision but it has no barring on me.

If you can't react in time to hit me while in melee range, then that means I succeeded and you didn't. That's part of PVP.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@Skulptro @DrSlaughtr

Guys lets not derail off the thread topic. This thread isn't about teaching someone how to duel against nightblades.... there's plenty of duplicate nb threads this patch already.

Main topics
average build walking(run) movement speed is too high

Sprint can be ignored as a mechanic

skill registration issues, desync, accessibility etc

Snare/root and counterplay balance/functions

Positional desync was a thing before wild hunt. It's a side effect of a server side game rather than a client side game (which you can't do because of cheating). Once you start introducing multiple pathways of communication you are inherently introducing latency.

If you're saying nerf base speed, so you're lowering the ceiling AND the floor, maybe you make it a little better. Maybe you don't. You probably will make a lot of people who don't invest in speed angry.

Just imo.

No base speed is still 100. The average build speed with typical investment is what is too high. You can read above for the breakdowns, but here's the summary again. Take off
Old Stamsorc had 10%(minor)+30%(pots) === 40% (base speed was at 90% instead of 100% so -10% depending on patch)

New stamsorc has 15%(minor)+30%(rats)+10/11%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+7%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 62%-92%

My OP Proposed 8%(minor)+15%(maj)+5%(celerity)+5%(bosmer)+5%*0:3(swift)+2%*1:5(medium armor) === 35%-58%

Basically my proposal lands the values directly between pre summerset and the current value of movement speed. If you so choose you can still hit cap, but to do so investment is actually needed.

So you want to punish people who sacrifice damage and/or survivability to have better movement so they can be easier to hit in melee?

This isn't a tab targeting game and that's why it has the best combat out there and what sets it different. If you are going to nerf movement to the point that you can just blindly swing at people then you might as well have tab targeting.

That dynamic would still exist under my proposal wdym? Yes it would make melee combat more consistent, that's the main reasoning to make skill hit registration functionally consistent again. It isn't like only your speed would be reduced.... (Back when the movement was more consistent you rarely had players spec into speed. Which means your average was lower and even with lower values, people who specced into speed had even MORE survivability) If you reread my first post I talked about CONSISTENCY being the reason average players are even running speed. The snare/root/counterplay being garbage makes people want to overcompensate with raw movement speed.

How does a slower (mind you only halfway to presummerset) movement speed make the game tab target? This game was at 1/3 the movement speed when it gained popularity and praise for its action combat system.

What I am seeing in this thread is essentially asking for tab targeting, just without having to hit the button. Some seem to want players to be so slow that your attacks are less reliant on your reaction time.

I am blazing fast, even when I am just running 3 swift. I miss heavy attacks ALL THE TIME on targets not even moving. I have ultimates not go off on players walking. This has nothing to do with speed. It's a client a -> server -> client b -> server -> client a issue.

Server reports Client B position at X.

Client A attacks B at X, but B has already moved. The server had not set the new position to A. Attack misses. Client B realizes he was attacked and now defends or responds.

None of that has anything to do with speed. It's old tech running server side. The only thing nerfing speed will do is slow combat down (and combat is already too slow), which then effects the entire map. You can see the effect nerfing mount speed a bit ago had on Cyrodiil. By the time you hop on your mount and travel, whatever you were heading to is already wrapped up. Keep was taken before anyone could arrive. Keep was defended before more attackers could arrive.

The same thing would happen on a XvX level if you keep the speed floor static but drop the ceiling, and you will completely offset the reasons for making those sacrifices I mentioned above, which in turn will have their own negative effects.

Honestly, seeing this constant threads asking for nerfs specifically against classes or builds that are "hard to kill" is really just asking for the game to be a watered down casual waste of time.

NuarBlack · October 5

Soarora wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

There’s much bigger problems than player speed for dev time to focus on. Like why don’t skills go off reliably (hitting 1 skill several times in a row, you’ll notice it skips casts), why is necro so bad at anything other than tank, why is templar, etc. I can’t think of any mechanic you can straight up skip by being too fast as most if not all mechanics that chase you actually go faster the longer they’re up and bosses can’t be kited anymore due to anti-roll mechanics.

Wait, you serious? One of the primary reasons skills don't fire is desync caused by too much speed. Speed is the primary culprit. Slowing down the game would literally improve skills firing more consistently.

And before you go blaming the servers think about what you are asking especially after you made the argument that the devs need to be efficient with their time. What is easier? Adjusting player speed or expensive server overhauls?

In what way? Stand completely still in a house with only you and hit a skill like combat prayer as many times as you can in a row onto the ground. It doesn’t matter that no one is moving, inputs get skipped. That’s what I was referring to.

Player speed isn’t the only problem, if its a problem at all.

Well you can't exceed the GCD. That isn't inputs not registering or Well it is but very much intentional. Never have inputs not register on the GCD when I have good latency. Mashing buttons faster than the GCD isn't proving anything.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 5

This is basically completely correct as a post hopefully the devs listen,

Honestly i'd just completely bin celerity and make something different there - a CP star to change your dodge/sprint to magicka cost for example would be interesting

Couple important thing to add:

1) Sprint should be your main source of movement speed increase in combat. The issue now is that often players are reaching huge speed increases without even needing to sprint as a trade off.

2) You can easily make these changes only affect pvp by simply adding -50% to movement speed bonuses whilst battle spirit is applied.

3) You could also easily only make these changes apply whilst in combat similar to wild hunt to allow crafters and gatherers to still enjoy speed increases