New necromancer companion is the biggest disappointment out of them all yet

Syldras

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I like that ZOS hasn't given in to just "muahaha evil necromancer"

I like that it's no cliché. In that regard, I agree. Still, I'd like to see something less heroic for once. Well-written, of course. That's the main aspect.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I think we need more DLC where we get to be "evil" or morally gray. The Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild were good examples. Only issue is then some people wouldn't wanna to do the quests if they don't fit their characters' rolepay, so they would complain about not being able to do the new zone quests.

Being able to side with one of two different factions, with one of them potentially being more "evil", would be nice, as I had hoped it would be with Greymoor (yeah, I was young and naive and I had played Dawnguard). Or quests where you can choose the outcome. Or even quests that aren't super heroic. But every quests where we can make choices means extra work for ZOS, of course.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

That may be, but then he can actually use his words and TELL me he wants that rat. I can't read his mind! and I am usually in the middle of battle!

Maybe just cook him a rat sometime soon. But without cheese, we don't want him to become sick, after all!

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Yeah, that would be the true issue, not having it exaggerated to the point that the companion comes across as useless or helpless.

Then again, that young Imperial soldier who was whimpering in fear through the whole Fort Colovia quest in the last chapter was adorable somehow. Like a scared little puppy

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

That reminded me of everyone telling me to try chamomille tea to relax. I tried some and thought 'I just drank a hay bale!' Looked up what chamomille was, and I am pretty sure we have them growing in our fields, or did, and I likely DID eat some while picking up square bales for our horses...

It really grows almost everywhere. But seriously, for relaxation hop (humulus) should help. Even in its cold and fermented form, also known as beer

Sadly, I can't, my cats get the rats before I can cook them.

Sadly, I haven't played it as I only have ESO + and not the latest upgrade, but yeah, sometimes they can write someone like that.

I am not a drinker, so that wouldn't help me. For me, it was the whole 'this tastes like a hay bale' that did me in, because it did. Never managed to get over it.


Back on topic, I also like that the necromancer is not cliche, because that was the biggest reason I didn't want a male altmer necromancer. I was afraid that it would just go with every single cliche about necromancers and altmer there are.

The more I read, the more I am looking forward to using the Necromancer As long as the soul gem passive doesn't give negative rapport (and it is said it doesn't), I don't really care how he feels about filling soul gems (to be honest, I always found it a bit questionable. Not enough to NOT do it, naturally, but still a bit dodgy...). Will have to see about the rest of his personality.

Spin

I still don't know why ESO is so full of exceptions. A Khajiit necromancer who hates Khajiit things, ok, then there's Ember who doesn't even speak in the Khajiit way. 2 Khajiit companions who are exceptions to the rule.

I just wish we had one that was stealthy and used "this one this" - "this one that"...

I think the devs often forget that the game is set in an era were 3 factions are killing each other and commiting war crimes, not the age of tolerance between the various cultures and exceptions of TES

Spin

nihonseanb14_ESO wrote: »

Just a weird choice. Nord, Orc, Wood Elf still not used, they chose to go with Khajiit. Quite a few Necromancer characters are also Vampires, Devs decided they wanted the Necro companion to dislike Vampires. It genuinely seems like the people making these decisions are disconnected from the player base.

The Nord companion will hate mead, worships Auriel and be a very polite scholar fond of democracy. He is native of Elsweyr.

The wood elf one will be a vegan, who doesn't follow green pact and is a follower of hircine, he also hates long range weapons and has passives to heavy armor. He likes the cold and comes from Eastmarch.

The Orc one will be a skinny mage, monogamous one, who follows the eight and despise Malacath. He also hates when you use intimidation skill checks or 2H weapons. He is from Shadowfen and likes Breton and Redguard places.

Done, I've written the future ESO Companions for you, all of them are exceptions to the rule.

TaSheen

Spin wrote: »

nihonseanb14_ESO wrote: »

Just a weird choice. Nord, Orc, Wood Elf still not used, they chose to go with Khajiit. Quite a few Necromancer characters are also Vampires, Devs decided they wanted the Necro companion to dislike Vampires. It genuinely seems like the people making these decisions are disconnected from the player base.

The Nord companion will hate mead, worships Auriel and be a very polite scholar fond of democracy. He is native of Elsweyr.

The wood elf one will be a vegan, who doesn't follow green pact and is a follower of hircine, he also hates long range weapons and has passives to heavy armor. He likes the cold and comes from Eastmarch.

The Orc one will be a skinny mage, monogamous one, who follows the eight and despise Malacath. He also hates when you use intimidation skill checks or 2H weapons. He is from Shadowfen and likes Breton and Redguard places.

Done, I've written the future ESO Companions for you, all of them are exceptions to the rule.

Well, you definitely managed to live up to your forum name....

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I am not a drinker, so that wouldn't help me. For me, it was the whole 'this tastes like a hay bale' that did me in, because it did. Never managed to get over it.

Hop also helps as a completely non-alcoholic tea. Other than that: Passionflower, Valerian and, what was it... St John's wort (I had sleeping issues when I was younger - or maybe not, but my sleeping habits and circadian rhythm are a little... socially incompatible).

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

The more I read, the more I am looking forward to using the Necromancer As long as the soul gem passive doesn't give negative rapport (and it is said it doesn't), I don't really care how he feels about filling soul gems (to be honest, I always found it a bit questionable. Not enough to NOT do it, naturally, but still a bit dodgy...). Will have to see about the rest of his personality.

Yeah, his story sounds interesting so far. Especially if there's really deep lore this time. I will definitively adventure with him - I don't think it will be that bad.

I'm still very concerned about the Altmer, though. The flirtyness. The dislike of books. Just no. Especially the latter I can absolutely not comprehend.

If it's really all lore books except for some small notes within quests, it's just... such a strange decision?! The lore is one of the best things about this game (and one of the aspects that's superb about TES altogether), so how can they basically introduce a mechanism that pushes us to avoid reading these texts?! I think some of the biggest TES fans are from the lore community. In general I perceive the lore people to be very loyal to the franchise. Also for the sake of the writers, reading their stories should be encouraged, not punished. Also, even if I am not a violent person at all, there's something about disturbing me while reading (or even nagging about me reading) that really irritates me It only makes me really dislike a companion, and that can't really be ZOS' intention.

LittlePinkDot

vingarmo wrote: »

For those who don't read patch notes, new necromancer companion is Khajiit priest of the Order of the Hidden Moon (Azura's cult) sent forward in time from the First Era. Not only he's just another boring preachy guy who hates theft and murder but he also dislike filling soul gems and using necromancer abilities near civilians (like really?). There are already not clear distinction between them as most of companions uphold same universal values, necromancer was the opportunity to introduce someone who don't blend with the world like any other friendly generic NPC and have some personality, but nope. What's the point of all those evil looking outfit and weapons styles (looking at new crown crates), horrific mounts and pets if all we can do is roleplay hero, surrounded by generic benevolent sidekicks? And mind you, I enjoy playing hero as well, but it's getting boring and repeating stories on the characters of the same mind simply uninspiring.

Just to get a clearer example, I was hoping for someone like Kaliyo Djannis and Jaesa Willsaam from SWTOR, some of their preferences was off even for my evil Sith/Imperial agent, but at least it was refreshing to repeat same class story playing differently. In ESO I might play with Bastian or Isobel or Zerith-var and notice no difference, because there is barely any.

Ember is the kahjit companion you want around if you're doing evil deeds.

yourhpgod

there's a new one?

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I am not a drinker, so that wouldn't help me. For me, it was the whole 'this tastes like a hay bale' that did me in, because it did. Never managed to get over it.

Hop also helps as a completely non-alcoholic tea. Other than that: Passionflower, Valerian and, what was it... St John's wort (I had sleeping issues when I was younger - or maybe not, but my sleeping habits and circadian rhythm are a little... socially incompatible).

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

The more I read, the more I am looking forward to using the Necromancer As long as the soul gem passive doesn't give negative rapport (and it is said it doesn't), I don't really care how he feels about filling soul gems (to be honest, I always found it a bit questionable. Not enough to NOT do it, naturally, but still a bit dodgy...). Will have to see about the rest of his personality.

Yeah, his story sounds interesting so far. Especially if there's really deep lore this time. I will definitively adventure with him - I don't think it will be that bad.

I'm still very concerned about the Altmer, though. The flirtyness. The dislike of books. Just no. Especially the latter I can absolutely not comprehend.

If it's really all lore books except for some small notes within quests, it's just... such a strange decision?! The lore is one of the best things about this game (and one of the aspects that's superb about TES altogether), so how can they basically introduce a mechanism that pushes us to avoid reading these texts?! I think some of the biggest TES fans are from the lore community. In general I perceive the lore people to be very loyal to the franchise. Also for the sake of the writers, reading their stories should be encouraged, not punished. Also, even if I am not a violent person at all, there's something about disturbing me while reading (or even nagging about me reading) that really irritates me It only makes me really dislike a companion, and that can't really be ZOS' intention.

I just stick to basic tea, but you reminded me of the time I found the most delicious Peppermint tea. I had to get rid of it. Every time I opened the cupboard where it was, my nose immediately stuffed

My sleeping habits could probably be best described as a mixture of 'sleep, what's that?', 'meow!' and 'rotiserrie chicken'

Yeah, I hadn't been looking forward to either companion, since necromancers aren't typically my cup of tea, but, this one sounds like it might be good. (and while I know other people want more stereotypical khajiit, I am glad that the two companions don't use the 'this one' type speak. It gets old fast)

I also share your reserves about the altmer. Just from the looks to begin with, down to the dislike of books (that right there is like the second item on the list of ways to get me to not want anything to do with someone. The first would be a dislike of cats), and the whole flirtyness that we can't escape from.

I remember in Morrowind, being disappointed that some of the 'books' were basically just synopsis of books and not full novels. I probably would have sat there, in game, reading an entire 500+ page novel, if they had them. Someone who is going to make comments when I stop to read one? Lets just say they aren't going to be around for long

StarOfElyon

For me, this flies past flirting and dives straight into harassment.

Just gimme my high elf waifu please. Quen is right there. Let her be my companion. Just make it so that she is inactive during her Thieve's guild quests.

joergino

Already existing NPCs will never become companions. We were told they will all be completely new characters.

Bo0137

I actually like the premise!

StarOfElyon

joergino wrote: »

Already existing NPCs will never become companions. We were told they will all be completely new characters.

I know that but I want Quen, Nahlia, and Gwendis anyway.

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

My sleeping habits could probably be best described as a mixture of 'sleep, what's that?', 'meow!' and 'rotiserrie chicken'

My main "problem" is that I'm absolutely nocturnal (and it probably is a family thing, as my father was the same). As soon as I have no appointments by day my sleeping rhythm will immediately change. Meaning: As soon as it's weekend or holiday or vacation time or I don't have fixed working hours (which is my preference for obvious reasons), I will be awake at night and go to sleep at dawn. Nothing helps. I generally don't sleep much, either. My whole middle and high school time (which in my country is between age 13 and 19), I had the same schedule on weekdays: Turning the computer off at midnight, spending time with calm things like reading, writing or drawing from midnight to 3 a.m., sleeping from 3 to 6 a.m., getting up at 6. At university, I usually chose evening seminaries; I didn't mind being at uni until 10 p.m. (and not being home before 11.30 or so) as long as it meant not having to show up before early afternoon. Right now, I spend most nights reading and writing (neccessary as well as useless things ), listening to music and looking into the forum every now and then. Ah, yes, and when I'm very focussed on something, I sometimes don't eat or sleep for days because it would be an interruption and I hate interruptions. I know it's unhealthy.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

(and while I know other people want more stereotypical khajiit, I am glad that the two companions don't use the 'this one' type speak. It gets old fast)

No matter if I like that speech style or not, I think it's a strange decision because it's a usual part of their culture (some real world cultures have it, too), so if it doesn't apply to a character, it's really unusual and should have a meaning (it was the first thing I noticed about the last anniversary event pastry chef Khajiit - then through dialogue it turned out he has been adopted and grew up among humans, which was a good explanation to me). How likely is it that none of the only 2 Khajiit companions talk like an ordinary member of their culture? Why would we only meet exceptions to the ordinary?

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I remember in Morrowind, being disappointed that some of the 'books' were basically just synopsis of books and not full novels. I probably would have sat there, in game, reading an entire 500+ page novel, if they had them.

True. And it was the same in Deus Ex 1, which was another game I played like crazy back then, roughly 20 years ago (or almost 25 - it's scary, isn't it? ).

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Someone who is going to make comments when I stop to read one? Lets just say they aren't going to be around for long

This as well as the flirting call for a "punch" feature for both companions as well as other npcs. As in "press å to punch npc in their face". I wouldn't even mind a 20 point rapport loss. And I would probably travel to High Isle again to have a little talk with Jakarn.

joergino wrote: »

Already existing NPCs will never become companions. We were told they will all be completely new characters.

I wouldn't mind if the new ones would be just as well-written and interesting. Strangely, even when having them around more regularly and for a longer time than a normal quest npcs, it is rarely the case. I really like Azandar, but my absolute favorite npcs from this game are just ordinary quest npcs. And it's not even about looks.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

My sleeping habits could probably be best described as a mixture of 'sleep, what's that?', 'meow!' and 'rotiserrie chicken'

My main "problem" is that I'm absolutely nocturnal (and it probably is a family thing, as my father was the same). As soon as I have no appointments by day my sleeping rhythm will immediately change. Meaning: As soon as it's weekend or holiday or vacation time or I don't have fixed working hours (which is my preference for obvious reasons), I will be awake at night and go to sleep at dawn. Nothing helps. I generally don't sleep much, either. My whole middle and high school time (which in my country is between age 13 and 19), I had the same schedule on weekdays: Turning the computer off at midnight, spending time with calm things like reading, writing or drawing from midnight to 3 a.m., sleeping from 3 to 6 a.m., getting up at 6. At university, I usually chose evening seminaries; I didn't mind being at uni until 10 p.m. (and not being home before 11.30 or so) as long as it meant not having to show up before early afternoon. Right now, I spend most nights reading and writing (neccessary as well as useless things ), listening to music and looking into the forum every now and then. Ah, yes, and when I'm very focussed on something, I sometimes don't eat or sleep for days because it would be an interruption and I hate interruptions. I know it's unhealthy.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

(and while I know other people want more stereotypical khajiit, I am glad that the two companions don't use the 'this one' type speak. It gets old fast)

No matter if I like that speech style or not, I think it's a strange decision because it's a usual part of their culture (some real world cultures have it, too), so if it doesn't apply to a character, it's really unusual and should have a meaning (it was the first thing I noticed about the last anniversary event pastry chef Khajiit - then through dialogue it turned out he has been adopted and grew up among humans, which was a good explanation to me). How likely is it that none of the only 2 Khajiit companions talk like an ordinary member of their culture? Why would we only meet exceptions to the ordinary?

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I remember in Morrowind, being disappointed that some of the 'books' were basically just synopsis of books and not full novels. I probably would have sat there, in game, reading an entire 500+ page novel, if they had them.

True. And it was the same in Deus Ex 1, which was another game I played like crazy back then, roughly 20 years ago (or almost 25 - it's scary, isn't it? ).

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Someone who is going to make comments when I stop to read one? Lets just say they aren't going to be around for long

This as well as the flirting call for a "punch" feature for both companions as well as other npcs. As in "press å to punch npc in their face". I wouldn't even mind a 20 point rapport loss. And I would probably travel to High Isle again to have a little talk with Jakarn.

joergino wrote: »

Already existing NPCs will never become companions. We were told they will all be completely new characters.

I wouldn't mind if the new ones would be just as well-written and interesting. Strangely, even when having them around more regularly and for a longer time than a normal quest npcs, it is rarely the case. I really like Azandar, but my absolute favorite npcs from this game are just ordinary quest npcs. And it's not even about looks.

I am, or was nocturnal as well, though I think mine was more due to thyroid issues from a pretty young age that made me literally scared to sleep at night (according to my sister). It made it so I was more comfortable staying awake and reading all night long.

I remember I did that in college, stayed up till like 1 or 2 AM and had a 7AM class. I actually stayed away all through class though. Too bad things changed :P

I don't know whether they will explain it with the necromancer, but I got the feeling Ember was also raised away from khajiit society, so she never learned it.

As for why we would meet ones who are the exceptions, that could be explained away by the idea that ones who are raised away from khajiit society are the ones most likely to be 'restless' and willing to travel extensively. Maybe they never felt truly at home and are looking for it. While those who grew up in khajiit society don't have that same need, and the ones that do, such as the ones we meet in our adventures, often find other like minded khajiit or grew up with them to travel with, instead of starting out on their own. The ones who grew up away from that social network don't have that, so they often do need to travel alone or with other non-khajiit.

Thinking about it, I do think that most khajiit often DO travel in groups of other khajiit. I am sure you would find lone ones in various places, but they often grew up in khajiit society and just didn't fit in, so they went to where they could fit in (which could also be a good way to introduce a khajiit companion who does have the stereotypical khajiit speak). I can only really think of two Khajiit (and I am probably missing a lot, especially as I am considering the entire TES series, not just ESO) who didn't travel with a group of khajiit while still growing up among them. Raz, and we got his backstory in Elsweyr, and there was a Khajiit companion in Skyrim who was a mage, which I think is why he was alone.

Me: Deus Ex had books. I don't remember books.

*types out thoughts about college and khajiit*

Me: Deus Ex had boo... OH I REMEMBER! I don't remember what they were about specifically, but I remember finding them and reading them. My brother and I love that game. It always seems so short when we think about it, but then we start listing areas we go to in it, and are like 'okay, this game wasn't short, it was just that enjoyable!'

I agree, I didn't really pay much attention to Jakarn, but Darien? he was in way to many quests for me.

As for existing characters, I would want two (technically three), though they aren't the ones everyone else wants. Revus and his Magister, and Raynor.

For some reason I just liked those characters.

TaSheen

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

My sleeping habits could probably be best described as a mixture of 'sleep, what's that?', 'meow!' and 'rotiserrie chicken'

My main "problem" is that I'm absolutely nocturnal (and it probably is a family thing, as my father was the same). As soon as I have no appointments by day my sleeping rhythm will immediately change. Meaning: As soon as it's weekend or holiday or vacation time or I don't have fixed working hours (which is my preference for obvious reasons), I will be awake at night and go to sleep at dawn. Nothing helps. I generally don't sleep much, either. My whole middle and high school time (which in my country is between age 13 and 19), I had the same schedule on weekdays: Turning the computer off at midnight, spending time with calm things like reading, writing or drawing from midnight to 3 a.m., sleeping from 3 to 6 a.m., getting up at 6. At university, I usually chose evening seminaries; I didn't mind being at uni until 10 p.m. (and not being home before 11.30 or so) as long as it meant not having to show up before early afternoon. Right now, I spend most nights reading and writing (neccessary as well as useless things ), listening to music and looking into the forum every now and then. Ah, yes, and when I'm very focussed on something, I sometimes don't eat or sleep for days because it would be an interruption and I hate interruptions. I know it's unhealthy.

Huh. I'm not either nocturnal or diurnal. I only need about 4 hours of sleep every 24 hours - and it doesn't really matter when I get them....

The problem is that husband of nearly 50 years needs 14 hours of sleep in every 24 - and he makes issues if I don't sleep for the same number of hours.

What in the HELL would I do with all those hours? I can't sleep that long.... never have.... so I lay there and try not to wiggle....

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Thinking about it, I do think that most khajiit often DO travel in groups of other khajiit.

A Khajiit caravaneer would be one that was raised typically but still travels abroad a lot. Although I'd prefer not to get another Khajiit companion right now - I'd rather see them release a Nord, Bosmer or Orc finally, for people who really like these races.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Deus Ex had boo... OH I REMEMBER! I don't remember what they were about specifically, but I remember finding them and reading them.

Everything from 21th century history, excerpts from real-world philosophy books and parodic things to Shakespeare and Sun Tzu's Art of War It wasn't as extreme in scope as TES's lorebooks, but it was certainly enjoyable. And it was really something special back then. I think I spent over 100 hours with the game, reading everything, listening to all dialogues.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I agree, I didn't really pay much attention to Jakarn, but Darien? he was in way to many quests for me.

I actually didn't even dislike Jakarn initially, but in High Isle he was absolutely obnoxious.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

As for existing characters, I would want two (technically three), though they aren't the ones everyone else wants. Revus and his Magister, and Raynor.
For some reason I just liked those characters.

For me it's Revus, Fennorian, and to some extent Raynor. Also Sotha Sil, but I know he's busy And yes, there's a pattern, I know.

FelisCatus

Syldras wrote: »

That's something that is noticeable through the whole game: You can make your character cliché "evil" looking, including "evil" looking mount and pet, and you can join one murder cult and you can steal, you can use a few necromantic abilities, you can (for whatever reason) threaten some travelling merchants, but except for that, you have to play the good hero if you do questing. You literally help everyone and their dog, if a companion is not the shining hero from the beginning there's a "become a better person" story arc, you can't even say something unfriendly to anyone (unless it's a story villain). Or more precise, you even become everyone's "friend" when doing their quests, you don't even have the option to say you're only a mercenary doing it for the money.

I think having more dialogue options and maybe quest choices would already help a lot. And accepting that some people might want to play an "evil" character or have an "evil" companion without a redemption arc (on in case or Zerith-var, some very unusual story to even make a necromencer a flawlessly "good" character).

I agree but when pigs fly.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Thinking about it, I do think that most khajiit often DO travel in groups of other khajiit.

A Khajiit caravaneer would be one that was raised typically but still travels abroad a lot. Although I'd prefer not to get another Khajiit companion right now - I'd rather see them release a Nord, Bosmer or Orc finally, for people who really like these races.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Deus Ex had boo... OH I REMEMBER! I don't remember what they were about specifically, but I remember finding them and reading them.

Everything from 21th century history, excerpts from real-world philosophy books and parodic things to Shakespeare and Sun Tzu's Art of War It wasn't as extreme in scope as TES's lorebooks, but it was certainly enjoyable. And it was really something special back then. I think I spent over 100 hours with the game, reading everything, listening to all dialogues.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I agree, I didn't really pay much attention to Jakarn, but Darien? he was in way to many quests for me.

I actually didn't even dislike Jakarn initially, but in High Isle he was absolutely obnoxious.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

As for existing characters, I would want two (technically three), though they aren't the ones everyone else wants. Revus and his Magister, and Raynor.
For some reason I just liked those characters.

For me it's Revus, Fennorian, and to some extent Raynor. Also Sotha Sil, but I know he's busy And yes, there's a pattern, I know.

Oh, for sure I don't want another Khajiit, I want a male Altmer first :P But, I also do agree that getting the three races we don't have representatives of first is preferable.

I was just saying that there can be explanations as to why the companions are different from your typical Khajiit. Like the caravaneers typically travel in groups of other Khajiit, though it would be interesting to get one as a companion. Maybe their perk could be something to do with prices or inventory management.

Same here. I also kept going back to make sure the doctor survived :P As well as the pilot. I had several play throughs of Deus Ex, and it was enjoyable each and every time. Ah, okay, that would be why they didn't really stick with me, because they were things that I would see pretty much anywhere. Yeah, it was enjoyable, and, much like morrowind, something different to what we typically saw. Plus, the writing was good. The prequels are okay, but I am not fond of prequels, because we already know where they have to end up.

I forgot Fenn! Yeah, he would be nice as well, though he didn't really 'click' for me as much as the other two did. Sotha Sil would be good as well.

I also think we may have the same pattern/tastes At least to a certain extent.

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Same here. I also kept going back to make sure the doctor survived :P As well as the pilot. I had several play throughs of Deus Ex, and it was enjoyable each and every time. Ah, okay, that would be why they didn't really stick with me, because they were things that I would see pretty much anywhere. Yeah, it was enjoyable, and, much like morrowind, something different to what we typically saw. Plus, the writing was good. The prequels are okay, but I am not fond of prequels, because we already know where they have to end up.

It was really different to what was common back then (also the books - I can't think of any other games except for medieval/fantasy rpgs that had books or just readable notes to that extent in that era, even if most were just for flavor, basically). Deus Ex 2 was not quite it. Not as horrible as some people claim it to be, althought it was disappointing compared to the first one. The 3rd one got better gain, even if I don't really find it comparable to the first one anymore except for the overall setting (but it was entertaining in its own way, and the writing was still good).

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I forgot Fenn! Yeah, he would be nice as well, though he didn't really 'click' for me as much as the other two did. Sotha Sil would be good as well.
I also think we may have the same pattern/tastes At least to a certain extent.

It's always elven scholars, usually younger and helpless and in need of someone who rescues or protects them. I tell you my protective instincts will kill me one day. Even Sotha Sil once fell into that category.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Same here. I also kept going back to make sure the doctor survived :P As well as the pilot. I had several play throughs of Deus Ex, and it was enjoyable each and every time. Ah, okay, that would be why they didn't really stick with me, because they were things that I would see pretty much anywhere. Yeah, it was enjoyable, and, much like morrowind, something different to what we typically saw. Plus, the writing was good. The prequels are okay, but I am not fond of prequels, because we already know where they have to end up.

It was really different to what was common back then (also the books - I can't think of any other games except for medieval/fantasy rpgs that had books or just readable notes to that extent in that era, even if most were just for flavor, basically). Deus Ex 2 was not quite it. Not as horrible as some people claim it to be, althought it was disappointing compared to the first one. The 3rd one got better gain, even if I don't really find it comparable to the first one anymore except for the overall setting (but it was entertaining in its own way, and the writing was still good).

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I forgot Fenn! Yeah, he would be nice as well, though he didn't really 'click' for me as much as the other two did. Sotha Sil would be good as well.
I also think we may have the same pattern/tastes At least to a certain extent.

It's always elven scholars, usually younger and helpless and in need of someone who rescues or protects them. I tell you my protective instincts will kill me one day. Even Sotha Sil once fell into that category.

As far as I am concerned, the second one doesn't exist. Period. (to be fair, I think it would have been good without the stupid 'lets use the same ammo for ALL guns' AND it had brand new characters. They dropped most of the characters I liked, butchered the ones I liked that they kept, and the entire premise didn't really make sense based upon the first). I do agree about the prequels. They are nice, but they aren't really deus ex.They are more like a Deus Ex Clone than a true story set in that universe.

Okay, I was wrong. We have the exact same pattern/tastes That could be me describing what I like :P Same with the protective instincts. I distrust what anyone tells me, and always want to hear the other side. Except when it comes to young scholars, especially elven ones. Then I am ready to take on the world :P

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Okay, I was wrong. We have the exact same pattern/tastes That could be me describing what I like :P Same with the protective instincts. I distrust what anyone tells me, and always want to hear the other side. Except when it comes to young scholars, especially elven ones. Then I am ready to take on the world :P

Now I imagine how it would have ended if my main would have met a young Mannimarco being scolded by Vanus Galerion (and giving him puppy eyes) - he would probably have beaten Galerion up while demanding to leave that poor young man alone I can't help it. Although that necromancy thing is a little unnerving. As in unhygienic.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Okay, I was wrong. We have the exact same pattern/tastes That could be me describing what I like :P Same with the protective instincts. I distrust what anyone tells me, and always want to hear the other side. Except when it comes to young scholars, especially elven ones. Then I am ready to take on the world :P

Now I imagine how it would have ended if my main would have met a young Mannimarco being scolded by Vanus Galerion (and giving him puppy eyes) - he would probably have beaten Galerion up while demanding to leave that poor young man alone I can't help it. Although that necromancy thing is a little unnerving. As in unhygienic.

My character would probably have been right there beside you, especially if I didn't know who Mannimarco was

Yeah, I tend to draw the line at necromancy, once I loot them, I leave dead bodies alone :P Though I can be convinced to make exceptions for necromancy

o_Primate_o

Too many interns making the decisions

Syldras

From the latest news article:
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66831

"Of course, the irony is that Elsweyr of the Second Era is so different than the sixteen kingdoms of Zerith's time. Luckily, this gives him a lot to grapple with and learn over the course of his story."

Why does it always have to be a story about learning and improving? I find gaining insights a wonderful thing in reality and think that it's possible to learn something new every day, but I don't think it has to be the main aspect for a character story that often.

“Companion development has evolved based on player data and player feedback through videos and posts,” says Day. “We desire to have the companion feature feel as if you truly have a friend playing by your side and providing commentary on how you play the game.”

This is confusing. Who is "we"? And do people really want to companion to feel like a friend playing the game with them instead of a character from the narration? And do these friends usually complain about the things they are doing in game? "Hey! Don't pick that mushroom or I'll log off!" Do such people exist? I doubt it.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

From the latest news article:
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66831

"Of course, the irony is that Elsweyr of the Second Era is so different than the sixteen kingdoms of Zerith's time. Luckily, this gives him a lot to grapple with and learn over the course of his story."

Why does it always have to be a story about learning and improving? I find gaining insights a wonderful thing in reality and think that it's possible to learn something new every day, but I don't think it has to be the main aspect for a character story that often.

“Companion development has evolved based on player data and player feedback through videos and posts,” says Day. “We desire to have the companion feature feel as if you truly have a friend playing by your side and providing commentary on how you play the game.”

This is confusing. Who is "we"? And do people really want to companion to feel like a friend playing the game with them instead of a character from the narration? And do these friends usually complain about the things they are doing in game? "Hey! Don't pick that mushroom or I'll log off!" Do such people exist? I doubt it.

I have the feeling that they misunderstood (or there is a heck of a lot of private feedback that we don't see) what people mean by 'commentary on how you play the game'.

I don't want my companions to go 'eww you want to pick mushrooms?', but rather go 'Hey, do you remember when you/we freed this town?'

I don't mind companions having preferences, but like a lot of companions in games, especially Bethedsa, I often find that they are too rigid. They often have no growth, no matter their rapport.

Basically, I would love to see a system something more like this. HOpefully I can explain it.

Instead of 'dislikes/likes' you have more nuanced takes.

Hardcore hates - these are things that the character will NEVER like, no matter what.

Hates - these are things that typically the character is always going to hate, but there might be some leeway at max rapport.

Minor dislikes - these are things that they dislike but can be willing to overlook if they are friendly to you.

You then have the same set up on the other side of the equation for likes. Things that they will always love, no matter what. Things that they love, but you can help them slightly change their minds about at max rapport. Then things that they like, but are willing to change their views about.

Basically, I just get tired of some of the systems where I go through hades and back, several times, with the companion, get them to max rapport, have done all their personal quests, and then they drop me like a hot potato over slightly differing views.

I just want a more nuanced approach to companions, and ones where they seem like they organically grow and change as they see more of the world/travel with you. Again, there would be some views that would never change, because they are so deeply ingrained.

Take Bastian. He hates cheese due to a lactose problem. However, after hundreds of times of me making some sort of cheese dish, and not forcing it down his throat, he can lighten up and realize that other people might like cheese, and it isn't going to get up off the plate and attack him (I make sure all cheese is sheogorath free and dead before I use it in my dishes) We are also almost at max rapport, so doesn't he think I would like him enough to not make him eat something that would hurt him? I have other companions to experiment on feed.

However, theft would be something he would always disapprove of.

SteveCampsOut

vingarmo wrote: »

For those who don't read patch notes, new necromancer companion is Khajiit priest of the Order of the Hidden Moon (Azura's cult) sent forward in time from the First Era. Not only he's just another boring preachy guy who hates theft and murder but he also dislike filling soul gems and using necromancer abilities near civilians (like really?). There are already not clear distinction between them as most of companions uphold same universal values, necromancer was the opportunity to introduce someone who don't blend with the world like any other friendly generic NPC and have some personality, but nope. What's the point of all those evil looking outfit and weapons styles (looking at new crown crates), horrific mounts and pets if all we can do is roleplay hero, surrounded by generic benevolent sidekicks? And mind you, I enjoy playing hero as well, but it's getting boring and repeating stories on the characters of the same mind simply uninspiring.

Just to get a clearer example, I was hoping for someone like Kaliyo Djannis and Jaesa Willsaam from SWTOR, some of their preferences was off even for my evil Sith/Imperial agent, but at least it was refreshing to repeat same class story playing differently. In ESO I might play with Bastian or Isobel or Zerith-var and notice no difference, because there is barely any.

This is why I like Ember the best.. She only gets pissed when I screw up and get caught doing wrong.

Toanis

vingarmo wrote: »

Just to get a clearer example, I was hoping for someone like Kaliyo Djannis and Jaesa Willsaam from SWTOR, some of their preferences was off even for my evil Sith/Imperial agent, but at least it was refreshing to repeat same class story playing differently. In ESO I might play with Bastian or Isobel or Zerith-var and notice no difference, because there is barely any.

Light Jaesa is pretty generic good as well. Dark Jaesa is the monster you made, you broke her so utterly that she now tries to out-evil you, I can see that being in the progress of happening with Ember and an "evil" PC she looks up to. (Not that we can really be a bad guy in ESO)

Sharp is chill. His only remotely do-gooder quirk is not liking stealing from beggars and it's more of a headshaking "really?"

Azandar is fine for "grey" PCs too, but often it feels more like he's your mentor.

But yeah, no MMO companions will ever come close to SWTOR's base story companions, this includes SWTOR in the expansions. I don't need full fletched out CRPG companionship in my MMO, but your sidekick commenting on the quest you just accepted/finished would be a nice touch.

katanagirl1

Bastian is the only companion I use, because I need a meat shield, lol. It might sound derogatory, but I need one and I am very appreciative of what a good job he does of it.

That’s all I really need. I call him up for battle and put him away when done.

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I have the feeling that they misunderstood (or there is a heck of a lot of private feedback that we don't see) what people mean by 'commentary on how you play the game'.
I don't want my companions to go 'eww you want to pick mushrooms?', but rather go 'Hey, do you remember when you/we freed this town?'

I find the whole statement I quoted strange, to be honest.

Basing changes not only on posts, but also emphasizing having taken into consideration videos. How many people make videos and explain in them in detail what they want for the companion system? I don't watch streamers often, but I did not have the impression that this topic would be very prevalent - also, who talks about it in detail in a video, when most viewers rather want to see action instead of someone explaining his ideas about good companion narrations for half an hour?

Basing changes on player data. Can lead to many wrong ideas. And I think it might have already shown in the past. Obviously Mirri was summoned more often than Bastian, and if it was only for her not being as strict with criminal actions - they seemed to think female companions were more likeable so they only had two female ones the following year? Not sure, but I think it might have been possible, to be honest. Anyway, a huge risk for wrong conclusions. Levelling one companion doesn't neccessarily mean finding their personality or dislikes and likes charming, but might be just for their fighting prowess or to unlock their bonus permanently. Or just the other way round, maybe their bonus is rather useless, but it's fun to listen to their comments. I currently have Ember active. Actually I can't stand her, but I have levelled all other companions, so it's her turn now (as the very last one), only for the sake of completeness.

But the strangest to me really is the statement that people would like companions to feel like a friend playing by one's side. They didn't write "being" or something like that, they wrote "playing". I certainly do not at all want companions to feel like a player character. And what does it even mean exactly? Most players probably don't roleplay and don't stay in character all the time while playing with a friend. But I definitively want companions to be exactly that: a believable person from Tamriel whose life and way of thinking are rooted in Tamriel's lore and history. I don't want them to shout at me in gamer lingo (horrible thought). I don't want a focus on just yelling some random commands during fights (maybe it's that what they mean with they want it to feel like playing with a friend?). It already came up in other threads, these short yells and comments seem meaningless to most people. Someone counted the voice lines and it turned out that some characters we thought don't say much actually have masses of lines - most of them simple battle comments. These just don't stick around in one's memory. What people remember about a companion are things they narrate about their background, about their thoughts and opinions. Three dozens of different battle yells on the other hand are forgotten again before the fight is even over. Of course I don't mind battle commentary. I don't even mind companions voicing dislikes (in general; but some are ridiculous of course and should never have been included in the game). But what would make them feel more "real", more interesting and potentially more likeable aren't these short lines, but if they'd actually say something meaningful. More location-specific lines. A Dwemer scholar, for example, could make comments on different Dwemer ruins, something specifically about that place (I know, probably will never happen, as it's probably too much effort). That would be another wonderful way to add to lore, and it would also help to characterize the companion (and probably in a more impactful way than just a one-liner + rapport gain/loss upon picking a flower or cooking a stew or whatever).