New necromancer companion is the biggest disappointment out of them all yet

vingarmo

For those who don't read patch notes, new necromancer companion is Khajiit priest of the Order of the Hidden Moon (Azura's cult) sent forward in time from the First Era. Not only he's just another boring preachy guy who hates theft and murder but he also dislike filling soul gems and using necromancer abilities near civilians (like really?). There are already not clear distinction between them as most of companions uphold same universal values, necromancer was the opportunity to introduce someone who don't blend with the world like any other friendly generic NPC and have some personality, but nope. What's the point of all those evil looking outfit and weapons styles (looking at new crown crates), horrific mounts and pets if all we can do is roleplay hero, surrounded by generic benevolent sidekicks? And mind you, I enjoy playing hero as well, but it's getting boring and repeating stories on the characters of the same mind simply uninspiring.

Just to get a clearer example, I was hoping for someone like Kaliyo Djannis and Jaesa Willsaam from SWTOR, some of their preferences was off even for my evil Sith/Imperial agent, but at least it was refreshing to repeat same class story playing differently. In ESO I might play with Bastian or Isobel or Zerith-var and notice no difference, because there is barely any.

Urvoth

Well that’s disappointing

Syldras

That's something that is noticeable through the whole game: You can make your character cliché "evil" looking, including "evil" looking mount and pet, and you can join one murder cult and you can steal, you can use a few necromantic abilities, you can (for whatever reason) threaten some travelling merchants, but except for that, you have to play the good hero if you do questing. You literally help everyone and their dog, if a companion is not the shining hero from the beginning there's a "become a better person" story arc, you can't even say something unfriendly to anyone (unless it's a story villain). Or more precise, you even become everyone's "friend" when doing their quests, you don't even have the option to say you're only a mercenary doing it for the money.

I think having more dialogue options and maybe quest choices would already help a lot. And accepting that some people might want to play an "evil" character or have an "evil" companion without a redemption arc (on in case or Zerith-var, some very unusual story to even make a necromencer a flawlessly "good" character).

Veinblood1965

I'm upset that the new companion isn't Darth Vader myself.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

What is more is he hates Vampires, why is this guy even a Necromancer? he seems more like he wants to be a Templar.

CameraBeardThePirate

The fact that Necros even get bounties casting their abilities in town is ridiculous - why on earth would you introduce another punishment for doing that?

Syldras

I have the impression they don't want to rely on the biggest stereotypes when creating companions (otherwise Azandar would have become an Altmer), but there's a large span between the absolutely stereotypical comic book villain (evil laughter, eating children, kicking puppies) and the "typical good hero". Something inbetween, at least morally grey, might have been a better decision. But then again, I don't want to judge yet - maybe his whole story is very well-written and explains everything. I've only read parts of it yet, as I'm not logging into PTS this time.

SPlDER5

I don’t need a rapport decrease for filling soulgems rn. Looks like I’ll be giving this dude a miss.

colossalvoids

Thanks for bringing it up for attention, even as someone who doesn't use companions i was thinking about doing the quest at least to check the writing but seems it's all follows the last year's trends. Maybe people actually asked for something in those lines somewhere or excited for it but that's a complete miss for me.

TheBardAtTheInn

I applaud ZOS for making one of the most interesting takes on a necromancer that I've seen in a while. Someone who uses the manipulation of souls to redeem them is so interesting, not to mention his deep ties to the super fascinating Khajiit lore and mythology. Plus, him being a morally good necromancer make sense when considering khajiit culture and their less strict view of necromancy as evil compared to other races.

Bradyfjord

The problem, the way I see it, is that companions are not characters since they really can't change their values. To me, this means I have to reject the companion or accept being railroaded. This is why I don't use companions in any elder scrolls game.

Alaztor91

Are you telling me that you get a rapport decrease for using Necromancer skills near civilians? on top of the bounty that you already get with ''Criminal Act'' skills?

Kinda hilarious that this is coming from the actual Necromancer companion. Dude gets sent forward in time from the First Era and catches a ''modern Necro'' using GLS: ''Zerith-Var disliked that''. Can't really blame him though, class skills were probably better in the First Era lol.

M1SHAAN

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Are you telling me that you get a rapport decrease for using Necromancer skills near civilians? on top of the bounty that you already get with ''Criminal Act'' skills?

He does, but I'm not sure if the rapport decrease is necro-skill-specific or for getting any bounty, or some level of notoriety, and he just happens to have special dialogue when it occurs due to necromantic skills. I haven't figured this out myself but I'm sure somebody has tested it.

I personally think the concept for the character is really cool and interesting. I haven't done all his quests, but I'm very intrigued to learn more about him. However, while I don't think the character is bad, I do think it's a shame that ZOS couldn't come up with a similarly interesting companion who was explicitly evil and/or an as-yet unused race, since there is clearly a lot of interest for both those things.

RaikaNA

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

What is more is he hates Vampires, why is this guy even a Necromancer? he seems more like he wants to be a Templar.

I'll pay in crown crates to watch Mannimarco fight and teabag the new necromancer companion.

bruta

so they managed to make something even worse than Bastian

Syldras

RaikaNA wrote: »

I'll pay in crown crates to watch Mannimarco fight and teabag the new necromancer companion.

That's inappropriate!
May I watch?
You could set up a betting shop, then you'll have your gold back in no time!

gamma71

Soul gems really I guess picking the wrong bug wasn't annoying enough I swear these guys are trying harder and harder to loose subs.

LalMirchi

Reading this, the new necromancer companion seems rather underwhelming to me. Perhaps I will change my mind after testing.

I would still like a companion that is acerbic (taking Abnur Tharn as a possible template), whose cutting remarks are infused with sarcasm even while praising your "prowess". In short, a companion that's annoying in an amusing way.

CaptainVenom

No, he isn't. It would have been all too easy to write the usual "morally questionable" necromancer just because it's a necromancer. I'm glad ZOS was up to the challenge of creating something different for him.

TheBardAtTheInn wrote: »

I applaud ZOS for making one of the most interesting takes on a necromancer that I've seen in a while. Someone who uses the manipulation of souls to redeem them is so interesting, not to mention his deep ties to the super fascinating Khajiit lore and mythology. Plus, him being a morally good necromancer make sense when considering khajiit culture and their less strict view of necromancy as evil compared to other races.

This. A million times this.

Syldras

CaptainVenom wrote: »

No, he isn't. It would have been all too easy to write the usual "morally questionable" necromancer just because it's a necromancer. I'm glad ZOS was up to the challenge of creating something different for him

It's nice they tried something else than cliché, but at the same time it's disappointing for people who thought the necromancer would be a chance to get a less morally good companion for once (although I'm personally not sure whether ZOS will ever give us such a character).

TaSheen

Syldras wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

No, he isn't. It would have been all too easy to write the usual "morally questionable" necromancer just because it's a necromancer. I'm glad ZOS was up to the challenge of creating something different for him

It's nice they tried something else than cliché, but at the same time it's disappointing for people who thought the necromancer would be a chance to get a less morally good companion for once (although I'm personally not sure whether ZOS will ever give us such a character).

I actually think ZOS isn't planning to give anyone any companion they're really salivating over....

Syldras

TaSheen wrote: »

I actually think ZOS isn't planning to give anyone any companion they're really salivating over....

Either this or they'll put them into the store. High price, of course.

vingarmo

TheBardAtTheInn wrote: »

I applaud ZOS for making one of the most interesting takes on a necromancer that I've seen in a while. Someone who uses the manipulation of souls to redeem them is so interesting, not to mention his deep ties to the super fascinating Khajiit lore and mythology. Plus, him being a morally good necromancer make sense when considering khajiit culture and their less strict view of necromancy as evil compared to other races.

I wouldn’t have issue with different take on necromancer (or at least less so, as I think that on this class it should be something more unique and different from the rest) if the same khajiit priest archetype wasn’t already present in dozens of quests and storylines.

I didn’t expect someone who is stereotypically cartoonish villain, but rather nuanced character with interesting background and complex personality, leaning more towards malevolent traits and actions.

Still, we have 3 cliche of law abiding, benevolent companions and 3 who could be considered morally grey, but their voice acting, preferences and storylines pushing them more into the same first category. And now you can add 2 more who blend with the rest just the same, making them not memorable nor appealing to play with.

Syldras

vingarmo wrote: »

Still, we have 3 cliche of law abiding, benevolent companions and 3 who could be considered morally grey, but their voice acting, preferences and storylines pushing them more into the same first category. And now you can add 2 more who blend with the rest just the same, making them not memorable nor appealing to play with.

I don't even dislike the other companions (except for Ember), but it's indeed often a very similar "type".

Bastian, Isobel = lawful, good, knightly

Ember, Sharp = morally questionable, but they had a hard past, so it's forgiven

Mirri = avaricious Hlaalu thievish treasure hunter, without a too horrible past (probably because she is no betmer)

Azandar = stands out a bit, does what he wants, but of course there's also a part in his story where he finally feels sorry about being selfish

I'm wondering if Tanlorin is a Mirri type too?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I played through his first quest on PTS and actually really liked it. It’s nice and lore-heavy.

Can’t comment much on his rapport gain/loss, but someone tested it and the passive that automatically fills soul gems when you kill something doesn’t trigger it.

Syldras wrote: »

I'm wondering if Tanlorin is a Mirri type too?

Tanlorin is more like Ember, or maybe a cross between Ember and Eveli Sharp-Arrow.

endorphinsplox

Zerith-Var is really cool imo. Great voice acting (but I already love Darin DePaul), the lore is interesting and its an actual unique take on necromancy that's really fascinating and somewhat changes some major things in Tamriel, unlike the failed experiment that is the necromancer class that they still don't know how to fix.

Syldras

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Tanlorin is more like Ember, or maybe a cross between Ember and Eveli Sharp-Arrow.

Now tell me this character is also as obtrusive ("flirty") as Naryu, hates books, talks more than using the brain, generally doesn't seem to have a clue but still lectures us - and voilá: it's the epitome of everything that makes me dislike a character! I'd applaud ZOS for pushing the wrong buttons that accurately, though.

No, seriously: I'd hate it, but still I understand that companions should cater to the different likes of different players, so of course there would be some that I can't stand personally; and that's fine because someone else will like them.

M1SHAAN

Syldras wrote: »

Now tell me this character is also as obtrusive ("flirty") as Naryu, hates books, talks more than using the brain, generally doesn't seem to have a clue but still lectures us - and voilá: it's the epitome of everything that makes me dislike a character! I'd applaud ZOS for pushing the wrong buttons that accurately, though.

The first two are absolutely true lol. Though, in the short amount of time I messed around with them on the PTS (read: tried doing as many different things as I could think of to try to get a reaction), they didn't so much remind me of Ember or divines forbid, Eveli. Maybe moreso a more chaotic Darien? I'd say at least their flirting style is closer to Darien's flirting style than Naryu's if that makes it any better (or worse).

Syldras

M1SHAAN wrote: »

The first two are absolutely true lol. Though, in the short amount of time I messed around with them on the PTS (read: tried doing as many different things as I could think of to try to get a reaction), they didn't so much remind me of Ember or divines forbid, Eveli. Maybe moreso a more chaotic Darien? I'd say at least their flirting style is closer to Darien's flirting style than Naryu's if that makes it any better (or worse).

Nah, I can't stand Darien either. I don't like "flirty" (or at least the idea a normal person has of that term).

But that's fine. Ideally, there should be a companion for all kinds of different tastes.

nihonseanb14_ESO

Just a weird choice. Nord, Orc, Wood Elf still not used, they chose to go with Khajiit. Quite a few Necromancer characters are also Vampires, Devs decided they wanted the Necro companion to dislike Vampires. It genuinely seems like the people making these decisions are disconnected from the player base.

Did they even look at reporting on who is playing Necromancers and how many of those players are Vampires?

It seems like a case of Devs deciding they wanted players to 'enjoy' the game how they want them to, not how the majority of players currently are.

I don't see me making much use of this guy at all.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

M1SHAAN wrote: »

The first two are absolutely true lol. Though, in the short amount of time I messed around with them on the PTS (read: tried doing as many different things as I could think of to try to get a reaction), they didn't so much remind me of Ember or divines forbid, Eveli. Maybe moreso a more chaotic Darien? I'd say at least their flirting style is closer to Darien's flirting style than Naryu's if that makes it any better (or worse).

Nah, I can't stand Darien either. I don't like "flirty" (or at least the idea a normal person has of that term).

But that's fine. Ideally, there should be a companion for all kinds of different tastes.

*shudders* When I first started playing ESO, I saw everyone praising Darien, and going on and on about him.

Since I was AD, I hadn't met him. Then I played the faction that has him, and nearly immediately hated him. I also don't like that type of flirting, as it borders too close to arrogance for me.

So, it means I will likely not want to use the Altmer companion if they are like Darien.

HOwever, the necromancer sounds like someone I like more. I understand about wanting a morally gray or even outright evil character, but I personally prefer ones who aren't.


This is one of the reasons I generally prefer single player games, especially ones that allow modding. it is very difficult for a game to create companions for everyone (because that would be a LOT of characters), so modding allows people to create their own, or allows the community to fill in the gaps.