Class Set Discussion/Pyrebrand

sarahthes

Tcholl wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

Ok, I will explain: corrosive do not generate ulti anymore and Dk

Vaqual wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

Corrosive got nerfed and combustion got nerfed. Guess what, now the class have no burst damage and it is almost impossible to build around and keep the build competitive. DK became so boring that I only PvP on ballgroups now and using my warden.

This has to be a joke. DK was busted for at least 2 years straight and they did the bare minimum to bring it back in line. Of course the playfield around it has changed too, but neither of the nerfs you mention took away significant burst from DK. Yes combustion is marginally weaker, but that didn't kill burst. Corrosive gives the same amount of penetration if you wish to burst with it, you just don't get the free ulti-regen while being near invulnerable. This ultimate was broken beyond comprehension as an offensive and defensive tool and even insinuating that this was an acceptable is discrediting your statements.

First off, @Vaqual are you a DK main? If not, which class do you main?

It seems you are stuck in the past and just got out the time capsule here.

I do main the class and will explain how the corrosive nerf took the burst off for PvP. DKs built to generate ultimate and sustain from the Battle Roar passive. Since you cannot generate ultimate during corrosive now, we must spent points in sustain to survive. Points we have to take out from damage. Also, we must build ultimate for a long time before having corrosive again, which makes you sit there as target for counters (remember the range meta? DKs have no mobility). Most of players are not even using corrosive anymore, except some mech acuity builds who are still out there.

Third, the Combustion passive nerf also gave a further hit at sustain and I don't need to explain again why this means less damage.

All of this with the great decision of making all DOTs standard. Now, players stuck in the past complain from Pyrebrand and more nerf on the way. If you are not a DK main, you will see that this behaviour will come around to your class too, which will be also affected by nerfs sooner rather than later.

DKs are relegated to support on groups and are boring to play solo now. I am playing mostly warden in ballgroups as I have said before and for a reason.

I agree with you that the Combustion (and Pyrebrand) nerf was unwarranted but Corrosive WAS absolutely busted.

Removing ulti gen from corrosive killed the skill, not generating ultimate goes against everything DKs using corrosive built for. The same thing is happening with cloak now, where most believe it was OP, but the way they are doing does not seem a good way to handle it. Most NBs are pretty upset about it. Pyrebrand is the same and this is why this post exists. We are killing yet another viable set.

Keeping this complaing and nerfing cycles is not good for any class or anyone really.

Weren't comped groups using the insane ulti gen sets we have now with dk dds to pop dbs on people while in corrosive and that's why it got nerfed?

I don't think it would be healthy to go back to that.

robpr

sarahthes wrote: »

Weren't comped groups using the insane ulti gen sets we have now with dk dds to pop dbs on people while in corrosive and that's why it got nerfed?

I don't think it would be healthy to go back to that.

Yes, its was the perma Corrosive builds and not even in comps, just master 2h with oakensoul and stacking attackers, on-death ultigen assault passive + major heroism from Trickery did the rest. While its still possible with Magma Shell, MS does not have the ignore pen capability as Corrosive has and its useless for offensive builds.

robpr

On PvE side of things, its a bit of pity that we finally got a potential replacement for Runecarver or even Relequen and the dot part dmg reduction will make it gather dust.

Wuuffyy

Updated OP to account for recent PTS test. Screenshots/videos can be attached if requested (I'll have to make them)

Tcholl

This thread is not about corrosive. I just tried to point out the recent nerfs to DKs, but I regret touching such a sensitive subject. I have never asked for any buffs to any class or complained about the corrosive nerf anywhere. You can look on my comments history. I mentioned only to give context to the Pyrebrand nerf.

The post was kindly made by the author to discuss Pyrebrand. I am just here to support the idea that we should keep this set as it is, due to the reasons I have explained before.

Best way forward would be focus on the subject and bring feedback to feed the devs and assist them in making a good decision.

Syiccal

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why bother going through the trouble of having class sets if they aren't allowed to be better than generic stuff from 2018?

I'd rather see these "Class sets" modify or add to class identity skills. Think of how arena weapons function.

Instead so far they seem more like proc sets that only certain people can slot.

I agree they should alter existing class skills with the 5th bonus not offer procs

Blackbird_V

JUSTICE FOR PYREBRAND!

Wuuffyy

Blackbird_V wrote: »

JUSTICE FOR PYREBRAND!

Justice for Pyrebrand indeed my friend.

Galeriano2

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

"Pyrebrand: Fixed an issue where this set could Critically Strike, despite having built in damage modifiers. Reduced the damage from the damage over time effect by ~18%. Increased the damage from the area effect by ~5%. Fixed an issue where the damage over time effect had a higher chance to apply Burning than intended. Reduced the flashing visual effects on the explosion from this set...".

Also: "built in damage modifiers" that CAN crit and CAN deal ALOT of DAMAGE at HVs-






lol

There are more, trust me. If anything, all of these sets should do less damage at base and still crit. This concept of 'with' modifiers is not streamlined, a great reason for adjusting/not adjusting, or sensible with any general reasoning.

Maarselok does not crit.

Sheer venom being able to crit is not breaking rules since it has an execute dmg scaling not a stackable dmg buff like in terms of pyrebrand, maarselok and pretty much all proc sets that cannot crit. Sheer venom also has adjusted base tooltip to be rather low, so low that pyrebrand average tick atm is pulling higher dmg numbers than sheer venom tick at 1% of enemy's HP while sheer venom also cannot be refreshed earlier the way pyrebrand can.

There actually isn't that many proc sets with dmg modifiers that can crit and those which can are definietly not having high base tooltips and easily achievable 60% dmg increase that pyrebrand has.

J18696

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

"Pyrebrand: Fixed an issue where this set could Critically Strike, despite having built in damage modifiers. Reduced the damage from the damage over time effect by ~18%. Increased the damage from the area effect by ~5%. Fixed an issue where the damage over time effect had a higher chance to apply Burning than intended. Reduced the flashing visual effects on the explosion from this set...".

Also: "built in damage modifiers" that CAN crit and CAN deal ALOT of DAMAGE at HVs-






lol

There are more, trust me. If anything, all of these sets should do less damage at base and still crit. This concept of 'with' modifiers is not streamlined, a great reason for adjusting/not adjusting, or sensible with any general reasoning.

Maarselok does not crit.

Sheer venom being able to crit is not breaking rules since it has an execute dmg scaling not a stackable dmg buff like in terms of pyrebrand, maarselok and pretty much all proc sets that cannot crit. Sheer venom also has adjusted base tooltip to be rather low, so low that pyrebrand average tick atm is pulling higher dmg numbers than sheer venom tick at 1% of enemy's HP while sheer venom also cannot be refreshed earlier the way pyrebrand can.

There actually isn't that many proc sets with dmg modifiers that can crit and those which can are definietly not having high base tooltips and easily achievable 60% dmg increase that pyrebrand has.

Yeah they should at least let the dot portion crit since it's not being affected by any % dmg increase bonuses

Wuuffyy

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

"Pyrebrand: Fixed an issue where this set could Critically Strike, despite having built in damage modifiers. Reduced the damage from the damage over time effect by ~18%. Increased the damage from the area effect by ~5%. Fixed an issue where the damage over time effect had a higher chance to apply Burning than intended. Reduced the flashing visual effects on the explosion from this set...".

Also: "built in damage modifiers" that CAN crit and CAN deal ALOT of DAMAGE at HVs-






lol

There are more, trust me. If anything, all of these sets should do less damage at base and still crit. This concept of 'with' modifiers is not streamlined, a great reason for adjusting/not adjusting, or sensible with any general reasoning.

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Maarselok does not crit.

Sheer venom being able to crit is not breaking rules since it has an execute dmg scaling not a stackable dmg buff like in terms of pyrebrand, maarselok and pretty much all proc sets that cannot crit. Sheer venom also has adjusted base tooltip to be rather low, so low that pyrebrand average tick atm is pulling higher dmg numbers than sheer venom tick at 1% of enemy's HP while sheer venom also cannot be refreshed earlier the way pyrebrand can.

There actually isn't that many proc sets with dmg modifiers that can crit and those which can are definietly not having high base tooltips and easily achievable 60% dmg increase that pyrebrand has.

Maarse not being able to crit adds the inconsistency, I'd say. I tend to stay away from 'cheese' and especially in areas where Pyrebrand is mentioned to be "problematic" based on the combat thread forum post (PvP), it still doesn't do a fraction of the potential damage Marse does, especially in a "burst" while being in a simple two piece. With Marse, actually apply dots and do anything over a millisecond beyond a light attack and you're set for incredible damage (weaveable w/ an ability).

Sheer Venom has a multiplier indeterminate of how you list it; a 100% modifier at that. It easily has the ability to do as much damage/similar to Pyrebrand in execute thresholds (very common in PvP), is usable by any class/spec, can be used with an AoE execute to proc in an AoE (as opposed to what is Pyrebrand's direct LA), and can be re'procc'd by any ability that is still 'executing' when it is time for a refresh (for free). Again, as mentioned there are more sets that I wager aren't all the same in concept either:

-Baron Thirsk
-Corpsebuster
-Dark Convergence
-Wrath of Elements (Vat destro)
-Plaguebreak (could absolutely crit until recently, quite randomly changed; I think the dot still can though IK that the disease proc it fulfils certainly can)
-Zaan
-and more...

I'm not saying all can crit, but I'm certainly telling you that, out of that list, there are ones that hit hard AND can still crit. Again, I believe the notion of 'with modifiers' and the 'ability to crit' is so wildly inconsistent that the developers released a class set worth seeking out for certain players (as is in all regards; ie they had full artistic control of its design and released as such) and then doubled back to give it the 'zaan's' treatment. This, not at a true sign of overperformance in content, but sourced via a nonchalant complaint thread in the 'combat section'...

Not done yet... OR, if you managed to read beyond all of that, they quite literally "don't know what they're doing" (I'm not saying that's the case, but would only make sense is this regard) and pumped Pyrebrand out IN THAT STATE and decided to nerf it anyway despite weeks of PTS (for testing/reporting purposes) and low distribution in live.

Regardless, the set will not be a target for farming from anyone. It no longer parses high enough to merit the primarily single-target focus its relegated to (especially w/o a heavy crit) and does not deal enough damage/provide any utility to force a PvP DK to focus-farm this intense and long 'PvE' grind AND drop block to spam lights to pull 'okay' damage over time from this set... All while relinquishing 3 dots at random(let's say I spend 2k on average x 3 skills for 3 dots total... that's 6k resources lost) while attempting to restore resources.

Leonis3491

Aurielle wrote: »

The nerf does seem like a bit of an overreaction (probably due to that majorly overreacting thread over in the combat sub-forum). It’s a decent little proc set that wasn’t being abused at all. According to my kill counter addon, I’ve been killed by Pyrebrand exactly once. One time. I’m not going to even touch how many Tarnished Nightmare deaths are listed, and that set was left untouched for…how long?

Real head-scratcher here. Pyrebrand is an example of how to make a class set that people actually WANT to use (unlike, say, the Templar set).

I don't realy think the nerf is due to Pvp overreaction, as you said tarnished nightmare is much more hated than Pyrebrand but has never nerfed. My opinion is the potential of Pyrebrand in PVE is the origin of the nerf. ZOS is looking how people clean some content and how fast and make modification. A good indicator for them (i mean) is the duration of world record for Asylium Sanctorium. With a full group of Pyrebrand Dk the world record may have explosed !

Renato90085

Leonis3491 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

The nerf does seem like a bit of an overreaction (probably due to that majorly overreacting thread over in the combat sub-forum). It’s a decent little proc set that wasn’t being abused at all. According to my kill counter addon, I’ve been killed by Pyrebrand exactly once. One time. I’m not going to even touch how many Tarnished Nightmare deaths are listed, and that set was left untouched for…how long?

Real head-scratcher here. Pyrebrand is an example of how to make a class set that people actually WANT to use (unlike, say, the Templar set).

I don't realy think the nerf is due to Pvp overreaction, as you said tarnished nightmare is much more hated than Pyrebrand but has never nerfed. My opinion is the potential of Pyrebrand in PVE is the origin of the nerf. ZOS is looking how people clean some content and how fast and make modification. A good indicator for them (i mean) is the duration of world record for Asylium Sanctorium. With a full group of Pyrebrand Dk the world record may have explosed !

Most likely because of pve
like I know a private vet mos log
DK used this set to cause 180k single target damage.
an aoe class is higher dmg than most single target class for single target this is very unbalanced

Leonis3491

Renato90085 wrote: »

Leonis3491 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

The nerf does seem like a bit of an overreaction (probably due to that majorly overreacting thread over in the combat sub-forum). It’s a decent little proc set that wasn’t being abused at all. According to my kill counter addon, I’ve been killed by Pyrebrand exactly once. One time. I’m not going to even touch how many Tarnished Nightmare deaths are listed, and that set was left untouched for…how long?

Real head-scratcher here. Pyrebrand is an example of how to make a class set that people actually WANT to use (unlike, say, the Templar set).

I don't realy think the nerf is due to Pvp overreaction, as you said tarnished nightmare is much more hated than Pyrebrand but has never nerfed. My opinion is the potential of Pyrebrand in PVE is the origin of the nerf. ZOS is looking how people clean some content and how fast and make modification. A good indicator for them (i mean) is the duration of world record for Asylium Sanctorium. With a full group of Pyrebrand Dk the world record may have explosed !

Most likely because of pve
like I know a private vet mos log
DK used this set to cause 180k single target damage.
an aoe class is higher dmg than most single target class for single target this is very unbalanced

For exemple i saw a 210k dps on MOL first boss with Ansuul Pyrebrand 2h setup, less than 1 min bossfight, and the full pyrebrand dk group on AS did less than 1min40s ( i am not sure but it may be 1'32).
Clearly Zos punish most dk players by killing the set, because of theses few performances...

Alchimiste1

Ocelot9x wrote: »

First time i did a real pve build as a pvper is because i grinded Pyrebrand for pvp... On live is a good 1v1 set bht nothing exceptional, there are better sets to run, after the nerf will be another gold set sitting in bank

It’s a whole lot better than “ nothing exceptional” in 1v1s lol. All you have to look at is cmx it’s AT LEAST 1.5x more damage than things like way of fire

Ocelot9x

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

First time i did a real pve build as a pvper is because i grinded Pyrebrand for pvp... On live is a good 1v1 set bht nothing exceptional, there are better sets to run, after the nerf will be another gold set sitting in bank

It’s a whole lot better than “ nothing exceptional” in 1v1s lol. All you have to look at is cmx it’s AT LEAST 1.5x more damage than things like way of fire

With 3 dots on the target and 6k weapon damage its rougly a 500 bigger tooltip per second, thats not 150%. In pvp that translate to how much? 130 more damage every second?
I would rather have an higher tooltip for the heavy attack than the dot, since with the high healing+hp stacking meta you need burst, not pressure.

Theist_VII

Honestly, it would be nice if the Execute explosion proc’d off of a non-fully charged Heavy Attack or, my personal favorite idea… a Bash, and did a lot more damage.

That should have been the change they made in justification of their previous nerfs,

Galeriano2

J18696 wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

"Pyrebrand: Fixed an issue where this set could Critically Strike, despite having built in damage modifiers. Reduced the damage from the damage over time effect by ~18%. Increased the damage from the area effect by ~5%. Fixed an issue where the damage over time effect had a higher chance to apply Burning than intended. Reduced the flashing visual effects on the explosion from this set...".

Also: "built in damage modifiers" that CAN crit and CAN deal ALOT of DAMAGE at HVs-






lol

There are more, trust me. If anything, all of these sets should do less damage at base and still crit. This concept of 'with' modifiers is not streamlined, a great reason for adjusting/not adjusting, or sensible with any general reasoning.

Maarselok does not crit.

Sheer venom being able to crit is not breaking rules since it has an execute dmg scaling not a stackable dmg buff like in terms of pyrebrand, maarselok and pretty much all proc sets that cannot crit. Sheer venom also has adjusted base tooltip to be rather low, so low that pyrebrand average tick atm is pulling higher dmg numbers than sheer venom tick at 1% of enemy's HP while sheer venom also cannot be refreshed earlier the way pyrebrand can.

There actually isn't that many proc sets with dmg modifiers that can crit and those which can are definietly not having high base tooltips and easily achievable 60% dmg increase that pyrebrand has.

Yeah they should at least let the dot portion crit since it's not being affected by any % dmg increase bonuses

DoT dmg portion of Pyrebrand is affected by 20% dmg buff that stacks up to 3 times for every DoT target have applied. That results with easy +60% dmg bonus which is one of the reasons pyrebrand pulls so high dmg numbers atm.

Jerdeh

Sadly, this is the case with most nerfed sets in the past as well as with this class set. ZOS makes some "nerfs", and after that the set is completely useless. It's just sad how much people spend time farming stuff in this game just to notice it was for nothing.

Does anyone remember the days when games used to be fun?

Alchimiste1

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

First time i did a real pve build as a pvper is because i grinded Pyrebrand for pvp... On live is a good 1v1 set bht nothing exceptional, there are better sets to run, after the nerf will be another gold set sitting in bank

It’s a whole lot better than “ nothing exceptional” in 1v1s lol. All you have to look at is cmx it’s AT LEAST 1.5x more damage than things like way of fire

With 3 dots on the target and 6k weapon damage its rougly a 500 bigger tooltip per second, thats not 150%. In pvp that translate to how much? 130 more damage every second?
I would rather have an higher tooltip for the heavy attack than the dot, since with the high healing+hp stacking meta you need burst, not pressure.

I don't know if you are on console and don't have access to tools like cmx that PC does.

But for reference, when I was fighting good players with way of fire, the damage on cmx would show something like 500 DPS from that set, and that's if the player was very good with great weaving. When I fight players with pyre band, I see numbers like 875 dps from that set.

500 DPS * 1.5(multiplier) = 750 DPS. thats still less than current pyreband, Hense it's at least 1.5 times better.

Now, it might be different for pve, but for pvp this is the reality.

Wuuffyy

Blackbird_V wrote: »

JUSTICE FOR PYREBRAND!

Can we take a moment of silence for a dear, extended pal Azureblight for a bit as well please? I hardly knew them but I'll never need to know them at all going forward (well, other than to purge out of my inventory ofc)

JaxontheUnfortunate

Lol yeah, and yet rush of agony continues to fly under the radar as it were.

BahometZ

I'm so sick of this cycle. Look at the graveyard filled with dead gearsets. Dev sledgehammers and pvp moaners are a match made in heaven.

JaxontheUnfortunate

Lol yeah same tired of redoing my build every couple of months.

Galeriano2

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Maarse not being able to crit adds the inconsistency, I'd say. I tend to stay away from 'cheese' and especially in areas where Pyrebrand is mentioned to be "problematic" based on the combat thread forum post (PvP), it still doesn't do a fraction of the potential damage Marse does, especially in a "burst" while being in a simple two piece. With Marse, actually apply dots and do anything over a millisecond beyond a light attack and you're set for incredible damage (weaveable w/ an ability).

Sheer Venom has a multiplier indeterminate of how you list it; a 100% modifier at that. It easily has the ability to do as much damage/similar to Pyrebrand in execute thresholds (very common in PvP), is usable by any class/spec, can be used with an AoE execute to proc in an AoE (as opposed to what is Pyrebrand's direct LA), and can be re'procc'd by any ability that is still 'executing' when it is time for a refresh (for free). Again, as mentioned there are more sets that I wager aren't all the same in concept either:

-Baron Thirsk
-Corpsebuster
-Dark Convergence
-Wrath of Elements (Vat destro)
-Plaguebreak (could absolutely crit until recently, quite randomly changed; I think the dot still can though IK that the disease proc it fulfils certainly can)
-Zaan
-and more...

I'm not saying all can crit, but I'm certainly telling you that, out of that list, there are ones that hit hard AND can still crit. Again, I believe the notion of 'with modifiers' and the 'ability to crit' is so wildly inconsistent that the developers released a class set worth seeking out for certain players (as is in all regards; ie they had full artistic control of its design and released as such) and then doubled back to give it the 'zaan's' treatment. This, not at a true sign of overperformance in content, but sourced via a nonchalant complaint thread in the 'combat section'...

Not done yet... OR, if you managed to read beyond all of that, they quite literally "don't know what they're doing" (I'm not saying that's the case, but would only make sense is this regard) and pumped Pyrebrand out IN THAT STATE and decided to nerf it anyway despite weeks of PTS (for testing/reporting purposes) and low distribution in live.

Regardless, the set will not be a target for farming from anyone. It no longer parses high enough to merit the primarily single-target focus its relegated to (especially w/o a heavy crit) and does not deal enough damage/provide any utility to force a PvP DK to focus-farm this intense and long 'PvE' grind AND drop block to spam lights to pull 'okay' damage over time from this set... All while relinquishing 3 dots at random(let's say I spend 2k on average x 3 skills for 3 dots total... that's 6k resources lost) while attempting to restore resources.

Ok let me link You first a patch notes that made the mentioned group of sets to not crit https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584299/pc-mac-patch-notes-v7-1-5-waking-flame-update-31
You will find there a notification saying
Item sets that scale off Weapon Damage, Spell Damage, Max Magicka, and Max Stamina can now again Critically Strike. Item sets that scale in order of magnitude, or based on additional modifiers such as Relequen or Zaan, will not critically strike

Maarselok is pretty consistant with the ruleset. It's a high DPS set with a serious stackable dmg bonus. Pyrebrand though easily beats maarselok and it's not even a competition. Marselok have lower uptime and harsher stacking condition and pyrebrand results with higher overall and more consistant dmg pressure. In terms of pure consistant dmg pressure in PvP pyrebrand when properly used is one of the strongest sets to ever existed in ESO and same goes for single target DPS in PvE.

An execute dmg modifier is quite a different story than a scaling in order of magnitude or based on additional modifiers. And it's "up to a 100%" not "a 100%". A 100% bonus is reached when enemy is at 1% HP. Execute dmg is not a additional dmg modifier in a traditional sense it's more of a part of base scaling for the set's damage. It's like comparing DK's molten whip to templar's beam and saying that they both work under the same ruleset because they both have additional dmg modifiers. And no Sheer venom can't beat Pyrebrand even in execute. Currently on live server average pyrebrand tick does noticably more dmg than sheer venom tick even on enemy with 1% HP left. Quite frankly even after 18% dmg nerf to pyrebrand on PTS it still does more dmg than sheer venom at 1% of enemy's HP. On PTS when I wear pyrebrand+sheer venom my tooltip for pyrebrand DoT is 4428 and for sheer venom it's 3450. Pyrebrand get 60% dmg buff which makes it almost 7,1k so even with +100% dmg buff sheer venom goes at best to 6,9k and I repeat that's on PTS where pyrebrand was already nerfed by 18%. My non critical sheer venom hit at enemy with last bits of HP was around 1k and my regular pyrebrand tick was around 1,4k so sheer venom needs to literally have all starts aligned to deal a bit more dmg than nerfed pyrebrand does with no issues. If pyrebrand would just get no crit treatment and no 18% dmg reduction it would still hit higher with basically every tick than critical hits of sheer venom do on enemy with 1% HP. Let's also keep in mind that unlike sheer venom pyrebrand can be refreshed early just with light attack so it can proc once every second or even more often when sheer venom is kept on 2 sec proc intervals. Sheer venom is a joke compared to pyrebrand and using it as any defense of pyrebrand is just silly.

As for the sets You've mentioned

Baron thirsk hits 3 times on a 25 seconds cooldown and it doesn't even hit that hard especially considering how long the cooldown is. It does too little DPS to be worth using in PvE and it's too easy to avoid to make it worth using in PvP.

Corpsebuster is actually a decent set but nowhere near pyrebrand level. Bonus dmg here is completly justified considering conditions for it.

Wrath of elements does not crit

Plaguebreak does not crit and it never could. I don't know where did You found the info that it could crit up until recently. Patch notes I linked were released one cycle after plaguebreak arrival so at release it couldn't crit like all the other proc sets and since it's a set that scales in order of magnitude ZoS didn't grant it option to crit. They were just tweaking the numbers on it but never gave it option to crit. They even refused to allow a DoT portion of that set, which doesn't have any additional modifiers to crit. You will find quite a few threads made after proc sets started to crit where people are being suprised that plaguebreak doesn't. Diseased status effect can crit since it's not uniqly named part of the set. All status effects triggered by proc sets can crit.

Zaan does not crit

So yeah all really strong proc sets with stackable bonus dmg cannot crit, those which can have limitations that diminish their strenght which current live version of pyrebrand is lacking anf that causes crazy dmg numbers in both PvE and PvP that set is pulling. There really isn't a set currently that hits hard and can crit and there definietly isn't a set that hits harder than pyrebrand and can crit. Pyrebrand demolishes relequen in PvE and way of fire in PvP by 40% or more both of which are known as top of the line single target dmg sets in their respective fields. Ruleset for sets that cannot crit is pretty simple to be honest and pyrebrand with current tooltip values should not be able to crit. And let's not pretend there isn't visible overperformance of that set in the game. Overperformance of pyrebrand is already noticable, the set simply didn't overtook the meta because it wasn't advertised enough yet but without nerfs rest assured by the end of U44 every DK would be running it and it would be a meta set for DKs both in PvE and PvP.

Pyrebrand being asble to crit according to patch notes is a bug not a intended design so that would be getting fixed regardless. And when it comes to a base tooltip well real testing really starts when things hit live server. PTS sessions last too short and have not enough people to test everything extensively enough so some things will have to hit live to show their true colors. I am not saying this is always the case because developers sometimes push their visions despite massive player's feedback against it but in this case I think pyrebrand was simply not tested enough since it's a class set used by a dragoknights DDs which heavily limites amount of possible testers.

To be honest I am not that sure it won't be farmed anymore. It can be still quite strong set in PvP where fact it cannot crit really doesn't matter that much since many people these days run with like 3k+ crit resists. Currently this set in PvP is capable to be responsible for even 20% or more dmg that DK player's are producing on a enemy in PvP so 18% dmg nerf and lack of crits will still keep it somwhere around 12-15%dmg treshold which is still making it one of the best sets available for DKs in PvP. As for light attack requirements its pretty silly argument, You should be light attacking Your enemy if You want to kill him, blockcasting dmg abilities lowers Your dmg potential quite noticably and even if You want to play as blockcaster You just need 1 light atack every 6 seconds to keep pyrebrand DoT active. As for 6k resources required to keep the max stack value You're really making things to look more complicated than they are. Keep in mind that things like burning and posioned status effects are also DoTs and during offensive window DK usually have them active all the time. Quite often You will be having all stacks of pyrebrand active just after doing la+venomous claw and it's not like You lack DoTs in Your class kit that You would be using anyway with or without pyrebrand.

Theignson

This set was actually the only new IA set worth wearing, and it was only average.

ZOS for some reason listened to a singel thread-- yes, only a single thread, where the OP stated the set was too strong.

Literally 40 people responded and stated and showed the set was not over powered.

Now it is ruined.

I had no reason to keep going to IA for sets but was doing it for social reasons.

No more IA

Lalothen

Theignson wrote: »

This set was actually the only new IA set worth wearing, and it was only average.

ZOS for some reason listened to a singel thread-- yes, only a single thread, where the OP stated the set was too strong.

Literally 40 people responded and stated and showed the set was not over powered.

Now it is ruined.

I had no reason to keep going to IA for sets but was doing it for social reasons.

No more IA

Only average? A set with a DoT circa 50% stronger than Relequen is not "only average" - even in PvP. They may have hit Pyrebrand too hard, but they did need to hit it - and should have during the PTS cycle when the issue of the dot's strength was actually raised. It should never have gone live as it was; now more players are getting pissed off because of the fact that it did and ZOS have done their usual of taking a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

It beggars belief that PTS testers raising concerns like this continue to be consistently blanked in favour of making heavy-handed nerfs after stuff has gone Live; it's terrible PR.

Renato90085

Theignson wrote: »

This set was actually the only new IA set worth wearing, and it was only average.

ZOS for some reason listened to a singel thread-- yes, only a single thread, where the OP stated the set was too strong.

Literally 40 people responded and stated and showed the set was not over powered.

Now it is ruined.

I had no reason to keep going to IA for sets but was doing it for social reasons.

No more IA

not true, necro class set is S tier too and only nb/sorc/arc set very bad
but necro not as strong as dk
so they can't simply do highest single target damage like dk

N00BxV1

DK Main (6,638+ hours on DK alone).

I hate that their new class set is already getting nerfed. But sure am glad that I didn't bother grinding for it. I knew better...

Pterion87

I did a lot of runs to farm the set, since you only get 1 piece from the bosses (The Mirror one and the Invaders). I spent a lot of time and after this ridiculous nerf I have one thing clear. I will never set foot in Infinite Archive again