80% of players 40k health, 20k+ shields, squatting entire map but yes NB is the problem

DrSlaughtr

Hip hurray for the "never ending combat" mob who have gotten their way for 3 years. ZOS has continually buffed and buffed and buffed survivability with no downside, because all you have to do is put on one damage set on your weapons/jewelry and run with 10 buddies with the same build, and you are nigh unkillable.

But here we go. Here are the problems with the cloak changes.

1. Detection. So now I turn on Shadowy Disguise and I have no idea that the group cycling detect pots have detected me, but I still keep burning magicka trying to stay on the outskirts of their base stealth detection radius.
2. Guards. How do you think stealthblades get into keeps? Shadowy Disguise. Now I am going to burn 3500 magicka every 2 seconds (!!!) trying to maneuver into a keep before I can even find a place where I am comfortable sitting invisible without it running. Guards have insane stealth detection and the only way to get around this is to use shadowy.
3. You just want people to use invisible pots? So now they can't use detect pots to kill other nightblades? Bravo.
4. You allow people to run the map with insanely high health, insanely strong armor, AND SHIELDS. Yet you want to completely remove the most targeted damage dealing playstyle from the game with this ridiculously unwise change, and why? What is being "solved" by this? TTK is the highest it has ever been. People come on here and complain about nightblades because they got killed during their 10 minute lap around a rock when the first 10 people attacking them couldn't do enough damage.

This is an embarrassing change to the game. I can't say what I will do if this goes through as it would be against the rules, but my stream will certainly have to go through a shakeup. It's already a chore to deal with the meta ZOS HAS ENABLED and PAMPERED for 3 years now. PVP used to be about fighting. Now it's about shields and perma blocking until your 10 tank buddies arrive and you can focus your damage 10v1 because that's the only way you can kill anyone, even a measly little nightblade with 9k armor.

DrSlaughtr

Not to mention this essentially kills Stamblade and now everyone will just be a Magblade, jumping around while light attacking everywhere until they are ready to cloak with 30k mag.

Baconlad

The issue isn't yeah...this is the way it should be. Stamina classes should not be able to rely on a magic based ability for most of their defense. Like a magic class shouldn't be able to rely on dodge rolling. This is called balance. You want to stay cloaked then run magblade

DrSlaughtr

Baconlad wrote: »

The issue isn't yeah...this is the way it should be. Stamina classes should not be able to rely on a magic based ability for most of their defense. Like a magic class shouldn't be able to rely on dodge rolling. This is called balance. You want to stay cloaked then run magblade

Are you seriously saying mag-based players don't roll dodge? C'mon. They can roll dodge even more than stam focused because they don't have to save stamina for attacks. If they are running recovery food like bear, they are significantly off-setting what stamina is used to roll dodge with recovery. Not to mention CP decreasing cost.

Seriously, that's a really silly statement, my friend. Should I only be able to use Vigor? That's the only stamina based heal I have access to. This stupid toggle will effect how much mag I have to heal, as well, both from a resource cost and from a recovery position.

A bow player (which I am not) has just as much right to use cloak as a magblade. Stam-focused blades build for magicka too. It's not like we're running around with zero magicka. Also, I am more hybrid anyway. My mag and stam are almost equal.

It's a mag skill. Everyone has access to it. It's a problem for all sneak blades, mag or stamina. I was only pointing out that it overwhelming benefits someone who runs high mag. It still sucks for everyone. It's an absurd change. Quite frankly I have better things to stream than me managing a toggle and watching all my mag disappear so I can't even heal, all the while I was detected anyway.

DrSlaughtr

Also this ridiculous banner skill is just yet another tank buff. Way to go.

Jaimeh

Immortal DK tanks but no one cries about them in the forums.

DrSlaughtr

Jaimeh wrote: »

Immortal DK tanks but no one cries about them in the forums.

Because they are either playing them, immortal wardens, immortal sorcs, immortal necros, or immortal anarcists. It's always sunny in Cyrodiil if your "way to play" is never ending combat, surviving massively overwhelming odds, or spoiling the entire map because 30 people can't bring down 3 tanks burning all the siege.

Not even going to get started on BGs.

No one in this game should be able to have high health, high mitigation, high shields AND be able to put forward 5k+ w/s damage. And yet they have given that ability to players. Players will always min-max. I min-max damage so I can have a chance to kill those players 1v1. Guess what those players really, really hate. I get messages every day from them complaining that I interrupted heir bot combat behavior.

Jaimeh

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

Immortal DK tanks but no one cries about them in the forums.

Because they are either playing them, immortal wardens, immortal sorcs, immortal necros, or immortal anarcists. It's always sunny in Cyrodiil if your "way to play" is never ending combat, surviving massively overwhelming odds, or spoiling the entire map because 30 people can't bring down 3 tanks burning all the siege.

Not even going to get started on BGs.

No one in this game should be able to have high health, high mitigation, high shields AND be able to put forward 5k+ w/s damage. And yet they have given that ability to players. Players will always min-max. I min-max damage so I can have a chance to kill those players 1v1. Guess what those players really, really hate. I get messages every day from them complaining that I interrupted heir bot combat behavior.

I agree with the above. All these things are true and all of them much more problematic and much more difficult to counter than a squishy NB with cloak. But the reason why players hate NBs and cried about their bread-and-butter skill for years is not based on logic, nor numbers, nor the reality in Cyrodiil--it's psychological: people hate the sucker-punch aspect of it. So instead of using the many ways to counter it, they complain on the forums. After NBs bite the dust and ZOS comes for their own class tool kit I wonder what they'll say then.

ioResult

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

It's always sunny in Cyrodiil if your "way to play" is never ending combat, surviving massively overwhelming odds, or spoiling the entire map because 30 people can't bring down 3 tanks burning all the siege.

3 tanks? Wait till they make this Cloak toggle silliness go live and you have 30 or more former Nightblades walking around in Cyrodiil on Immortal Wardens instead of their now useless Nightblades, burning all the siege and standing on keep flags making it impossible for the other factions to take a single keep.

It’s coming.

Enjoy the endless combat tank meta that the “nerf Cloak” crowd thinks they wanted. Former Nightblades will make sure no one ever dies in Cyrodiil or the new BGs. After all, ZOS ruined their game and playstyle.

DrSlaughtr

I have no issue with it being a toggle. The way it is being done is not helpful to anyone except people who don't want to die. There was already a limit to how many cloaks I could cast. But I had total control over it and it didn't break my recovery that I also need for other skills.

Urzigurumash

So on XboxNA like 1/2 of Cyros leaderboard is NB. Been consistently about 3x the number of NBs vs any other class this year.

Despite their immortality, typically only around 4 Necros - and they're probably all VD DC builds.

DrSlaughtr

Urzigurumash wrote: »

So on XboxNA like 1/2 of Cyros leaderboard is NB. Been consistently about 3x the number of NBs vs any other class this year.

Despite their immortality, typically only around 4 Necros - and they're probably all VD DC builds.

1. Leaderboard just means someone has the ability to play 10+ hours a day, or they leech ticks, or both.
2. In GH this is not true on any alliance.
3. What NBs are on the leaderboard in GH are almost all not relying on cloak as their main defense. They are running high health and shields like a vast majority of other players and are magblades. they only use cloak for very specific circumstances. If you want to nerf those builds, nerf their survivability. But of course we can't do that.

ArctosCethlenn

the fully disabled magicka regen is a huge problem for every build except the handful of nbs running rally (and probably still for them), if zos is dead-set on that drawback it should only apply while undetected.

But 3.2k every 2 seconds is already a high cost, not sure it needs the rec penalty on top of that. If it's intended to prevent or limit perma-cloaking just make the cost ramp up every few seconds, with a 4-8s duration after leaving cloak before the ramp fades so folks can't just toggle it off then back on instantly to reset stacks.

IncultaWolf

ioResult wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

It's always sunny in Cyrodiil if your "way to play" is never ending combat, surviving massively overwhelming odds, or spoiling the entire map because 30 people can't bring down 3 tanks burning all the siege.

3 tanks? Wait till they make this Cloak toggle silliness go live and you have 30 or more former Nightblades walking around in Cyrodiil on Immortal Wardens instead of their now useless Nightblades, burning all the siege and standing on keep flags making it impossible for the other factions to take a single keep.

It’s coming.

Enjoy the endless combat tank meta that the “nerf Cloak” crowd thinks they wanted. Former Nightblades will make sure no one ever dies in Cyrodiil or the new BGs. After all, ZOS ruined their game and playstyle.

You do realize nightblades will still be able to kill most players with 2 buttons right? Their damage is still insane, it's just the defense/survivability is getting adjusted to compensate for your toolkit.

Urzigurumash

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

So on XboxNA like 1/2 of Cyros leaderboard is NB. Been consistently about 3x the number of NBs vs any other class this year.

Despite their immortality, typically only around 4 Necros - and they're probably all VD DC builds.

1. Leaderboard just means someone has the ability to play 10+ hours a day, or they leech ticks, or both.
2. In GH this is not true on any alliance.
3. What NBs are on the leaderboard in GH are almost all not relying on cloak as their main defense. They are running high health and shields like a vast majority of other players and are magblades. they only use cloak for very specific circumstances. If you want to nerf those builds, nerf their survivability. But of course we can't do that.

It's true on Xbox NA GH. On our server like 60% are on squishy TarnBlades. People who have 10 hours to play a day are no more or less likely to pick a certain spec than those that have 1 hour: the leaderboards accurately reflect class popularity if you look at long trends, and I'm telling you it's a NB meta on Xbox NA.

So that means nobody has any respect for NBs, longtime NB mains are on the same level as a child copying youtube builds. This is the life of an overbuffed class. You like it?

DrSlaughtr

IncultaWolf wrote: »

ioResult wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

It's always sunny in Cyrodiil if your "way to play" is never ending combat, surviving massively overwhelming odds, or spoiling the entire map because 30 people can't bring down 3 tanks burning all the siege.

3 tanks? Wait till they make this Cloak toggle silliness go live and you have 30 or more former Nightblades walking around in Cyrodiil on Immortal Wardens instead of their now useless Nightblades, burning all the siege and standing on keep flags making it impossible for the other factions to take a single keep.

It’s coming.

Enjoy the endless combat tank meta that the “nerf Cloak” crowd thinks they wanted. Former Nightblades will make sure no one ever dies in Cyrodiil or the new BGs. After all, ZOS ruined their game and playstyle.

You do realize nightblades will still be able to kill most players with 2 buttons right? Their damage is still insane, it's just the defense/survivability is getting adjusted to compensate for your toolkit.

First of all. No.

Most players are running too high health/shields to be killed in two shots. The only players getting killed in two shots are also running lower health DPS builds.

I am pro lowering damage IF you also lower survivability.

I don't understand how I am being penalized when I already have under 10k resistances and 27k health. I do this so I CAN deliver enough damage to fight someone with 10k more health and 20k more armor.

The problem isn't that it is a toggle. The problem is that it's stupid. Xynode, being xynode, claims this means it will require "skill" to use. Shadowy already requires skill to use. People acting like I can just go sit in a corner and hit shadowy infinitely. No, I can't. First off, why would I. Second off, I need magicka for other purposes. Such as healing. I can't blast away on Shadowy and expect to not to die quickly.

Shadowy Disguise has the most counters in game over any other skill. You have multiple skills that counter it. You have multiple sets that either directly counter it or have traits that make it harder to kill them from stealth. You have champion points that help counter it. And every time, every time they add some other counter, there is still nothing but non-stop complaints about nightblades because people want to treat PVP like PVE. They don't want to die. They want to have endless combat without their ability to survive being out overwhelmed by burst damage.

Players of all classes who actually like to do damage and don't sweat dying have been living in Tank Meta Land for 3 years since Wake Flame. That is how long it has been since we had a damage meta. All these players have gotten fat on buff after buff after buff to survivability and people who just want to have reasonable TTK have had to eat it or move on.

This is it for me. It can be a toggle without it being absolutely absurd. And I'm sure they will amend this and make it "more reasonable" like they always do. The problem is that "reasonable" backtrack will only seem reasonable giving the initial extreme approach.

Here's how you do it.

Make it a toggle if you must. Keep the cost but leave recovery on. I pay money to run Bear Haunch I shouldn't have it eaten away while 45k tanks have twice my base mag recovery while perma blocking.

The moment I get detected, the skill should END. And that 10% damage buff to monsters should apply to all enemies because if you're going to inconvenience me to have to enable and disable a skill when no other skill in this game requires that, then I should get something out of it.

Or they could just do this:

Lower battle spirit damage.
Nerf Tarnished harder.
Decrease damage by 2% for every heavy armor piece worn. If you want to be a tank, you shouldn't also be a damage dealer and your heals should not out pace an actual healer.
Make Bastion 15% increase to shield strength and 30% increase to shield damage so it's actually useful.

There you go. Less damage for everyone while also limiting the effectiveness of tanking brawling that has completely taken over PVP. You remove Tarnished from NBs (which let's admit, is one of the biggest complaints even though it's much more annoying with 8 tanks wearing it). NBs will go back to using either much less useful proc sets or, even better, damage/crit builds.

You don't need to completely kill off the defining skill of the class. That's what this does. Anyone who thinks otherwise simply are not familiar with running a stealth-based build, or they haven't thought of the numerous negative impacts this will have.

Seriously, I don't even know how I'll get into a keep anymore with a toggle rather than being able to surgically use shadowy from spot to spot. Guards are insane at pulling you out. I don't know how I'll evade players who are actively searching for me with detects because I'll have to spend all my magicka on the move rather than being able to pick and choose when to stealth. Both of those situations require more skill than simply "setting it and forgetting it."

What this does is it sets up a situation where I am completely removed from combat for long periods of time, cowering away somewhere while battle happens. Maybe that's what people want.

Cast_El

Yes NB is the problem. If you come with 40k HP you can be one shot by incap+merciless resolve, tarnish nightmare and anthelmir construct.
They keep giving buff to NB and broken sets.
Players don't want to be one shot so easily.
That's Why players increase their max health.

NB will still be top dog with this change. Try to play templar or Necro you will see what is a garbage pvp class

Cast_El

Couples years ago, cloak was the only defensive tools. Now NB can roll dodge forever, have one of the best burst heal, one of the best sustain skill and can teleport though wall.
And even so, you still can crouch

React

This was a long overdue adjustment. Looking forward to a more balanced version of cloak in the coming patch.

DrSlaughtr

Cast_El wrote: »

Yes NB is the problem. If you come with 40k HP you can be one shot by incap+merciless resolve, tarnish nightmare and anthelmir construct.
They keep giving buff to NB and broken sets.
Players don't want to be one shot so easily.
That's Why players increase their max health.

NB will still be top dog with this change. Try to play templar or Necro you will see what is a garbage pvp class

No you can't.

Cast_El wrote: »

Couples years ago, cloak was the only defensive tools. Now NB can roll dodge forever, have one of the best burst heal, one of the best sustain skill and can teleport though wall.
And even so, you still can crouch

No you can't.

You cannot kill any 40k player who is actively defending with any of those. Not to mention the fact that Ant requires a full charged heavy, which misses very often. It isn't easy to land, especially on a moving target.

Players increase their max health BECAUSE THEY CAN without ANY repercussions. If you deleted NBs as a class, everyone will still be playing the exact same way because trolls are gonna troll, and bots are gonna bot.

You cannot roll dodge forever. It has a ramping cost. Let's live in reality.

DrSlaughtr

React wrote: »

This was a long overdue adjustment. Looking forward to a more balanced version of cloak in the coming patch.

Well of course you think that.

Let's run around the tower for 20 minutes! Carpet carpet carpet carpet carpet carpet BRAWL carpet carpet carpet carpet carpet BRAWL carpet carpet carpet carpet carpet BRAWL.

Cast_El

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

Yes NB is the problem. If you come with 40k HP you can be one shot by incap+merciless resolve, tarnish nightmare and anthelmir construct.
They keep giving buff to NB and broken sets.
Players don't want to be one shot so easily.
That's Why players increase their max health.

NB will still be top dog with this change. Try to play templar or Necro you will see what is a garbage pvp class

No you can't.

Cast_El wrote: »

Couples years ago, cloak was the only defensive tools. Now NB can roll dodge forever, have one of the best burst heal, one of the best sustain skill and can teleport though wall.
And even so, you still can crouch

No you can't.

You cannot kill any 40k player who is actively defending with any of those. Not to mention the fact that Ant requires a full charged heavy, which misses very often. It isn't easy to land, especially on a moving target.

Players increase their max health BECAUSE THEY CAN without ANY repercussions. If you deleted NBs as a class, everyone will still be playing the exact same way because trolls are gonna troll, and bots are gonna bot.

You cannot roll dodge forever. It has a ramping cost. Let's live in reality.

I died 3 times today with 39k HP, 28k resist, got one shot, without being in combat, just keeping my buff up and moving around a bg. Merciless is still bugged,you can do 5 light attack on someone, go out of combat, and 1 minute later use your bow. But that's it the topic here.

This is a good change for the game. May be you learn to play with other class? Or up your gameplay? Change your build.
Actually cloak is weaker than shade, but shade is not easy to use for beginners.

Oldaraness

Cast_El wrote: »

Yes NB is the problem. If you come with 40k HP you can be one shot by incap+merciless resolve, tarnish nightmare and anthelmir construct.
They keep giving buff to NB and broken sets.
Players don't want to be one shot so easily.
That's Why players increase their max health.

NB will still be top dog with this change. Try to play templar or Necro you will see what is a garbage pvp class

If you die with 40k HP with these 3 hits the problem isn't NB it's your toon Incap it's closer, Merciless resolve and Anthelmir need 2-3 sec to start (anthelmir start with a full HA)... if you die with 40k HP in Cyro you have low defence. Tarnished Nightmare isn't a NB set you know? Anthelmir isn't a NB sets too... you can build your toon with these sets like a NB... but you want to be a Tank, with massive defence, high HP and you want to make a lot of damage... There are a lot of tanks in Cyro... when you attack them with 3-4-5 hits you da 50% of damage to their HP... it's normal? But the problem it's NB essence, NB Cloak for sure...

DrSlaughtr

Cast_El wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

Yes NB is the problem. If you come with 40k HP you can be one shot by incap+merciless resolve, tarnish nightmare and anthelmir construct.
They keep giving buff to NB and broken sets.
Players don't want to be one shot so easily.
That's Why players increase their max health.

NB will still be top dog with this change. Try to play templar or Necro you will see what is a garbage pvp class

No you can't.

Cast_El wrote: »

Couples years ago, cloak was the only defensive tools. Now NB can roll dodge forever, have one of the best burst heal, one of the best sustain skill and can teleport though wall.
And even so, you still can crouch

No you can't.

You cannot kill any 40k player who is actively defending with any of those. Not to mention the fact that Ant requires a full charged heavy, which misses very often. It isn't easy to land, especially on a moving target.

Players increase their max health BECAUSE THEY CAN without ANY repercussions. If you deleted NBs as a class, everyone will still be playing the exact same way because trolls are gonna troll, and bots are gonna bot.

You cannot roll dodge forever. It has a ramping cost. Let's live in reality.

I died 3 times today with 39k HP, 28k resist, got one shot, without being in combat, just keeping my buff up and moving around a bg. Merciless is still bugged,you can do 5 light attack on someone, go out of combat, and 1 minute later use your bow. But that's it the topic here.

This is a good change for the game. May be you learn to play with other class? Or up your gameplay? Change your build.
Actually cloak is weaker than shade, but shade is not easy to use for beginners.

None of what you said is a "one shot." That's a whole other topic.

Merc has a very audible sound. Learn it. And that isn't the topic here. The topic is shadowy disguise but you are leveraging it to complain about dying to nightblades using other skills. So let's try you.

Change your build. Live with dying. Learn to enjoy combat. Stop trying to "out live" people. Learn to recognize the obvious combat warnings. Stop arguing to ruin a class because they are inconvenience to your playstyle.

argonian37

I still dont get whats the issue with the possibility of being killed in a PVP game…
And if you dont wanna to be killed you can use detect pots. They are good! In fact when you use a pot, you become the agressor and you can easily kill the nb whose build is destroyed after that potion

Stafford197

The issue is kind of complex now but I think there are some major points to make here about super tanky PvP builds.

1. ZOS rebalanced Health, Magicka and Stamina in the past to where it became much less punishing on your damage output to lose points from your primary resource.

2. Hybridization leads to us using our off-resource more often, especially on Stam builds. This means we want more points in our off-resource, when we previously did not care. Naturally this causes Tri-Stat glyphs to become the go to glyphs since they grant additional stats.

3. Some classes… (NB)… have unbelievable single target burst damage. If you don’t stack high health you will simply get oneshot without even seeing it coming. Stack Health to not get oneshot from stealth.

4. Even recent changes are pushing players to stack Health. EX: Warden Arctic Blast is taking a nerf, meaning many players who used to run that ability will now switch to Polar Wind, which scales from Health, further incentivizing stacking extra Health when they otherwise might not have

DrSlaughtr

argonian37 wrote: »

I still dont get whats the issue with the possibility of being killed in a PVP game…
And if you dont wanna to be killed you can use detect pots. They are good! In fact when you use a pot, you become the agressor and you can easily kill the nb whose build is destroyed after that potion

Because they don't want to die. Die ends combat. They want combat that doesn't end until one side has overwhelming odds. Rinse and repeat. And you know what? That's fine! I don't come here to tell people how to play or how not to play. But when a vast majority of players have been given the keys to high health, high armor, high shield builds with very little drawback to damage, it's a little sus how much these same players rail against one skill on one build. They do it because it's the only playstyle in the game that can interrupt their good time.

Stafford197 wrote: »

The issue is kind of complex now but I think there are some major points to make here about super tanky PvP builds.

1. ZOS rebalanced Health, Magicka and Stamina in the past to where it became much less punishing on your damage output to lose points from your primary resource.

2. Hybridization leads to us using our off-resource more often, especially on Stam builds. This means we want more points in our off-resource, when we previously did not care. Naturally this causes Tri-Stat glyphs to become the go to glyphs since they grant additional stats.

3. Some classes… (NB)… have unbelievable single target burst damage. If you don’t stack high health you will simply get oneshot without even seeing it coming. Stack Health to not get oneshot from stealth.

4. Even recent changes are pushing players to stack Health. EX: Warden Arctic Blast is taking a nerf, meaning many players who used to run that ability will now switch to Polar Wind, which scales from Health, further incentivizing stacking extra Health when they otherwise might not have

100% right but nothing would change if NBs didn't exist. ZOS has given everyone the ability to build these insanely durable builds and they will continue to keep playing these setups with or without nightblades on the field. If it was about reigning in damage and "allowing" players to play less tanky builds, I gave simple instructions on how to do so. It isn't about that. They want endless, frustrating fights where players keep slamming their heads against walls in stalemates for hours on end. Maybe that's the point. Most players, it seems to me, aren't able to stop themselves from feeding into this machine.

I suggest it every night in group or zone. Why are we fighting 30 tanks at Aleswell over and over. Let's go here or there and get the map moving. Nope. We have to keep going and going and going. Most players, it seems, cannot walk away from a fight, and if they are stuck in a fight for 3 hours, then that's 3 hours they were playing and not looking for something else to do.

Stafford197

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

argonian37 wrote: »

I still dont get whats the issue with the possibility of being killed in a PVP game…
And if you dont wanna to be killed you can use detect pots. They are good! In fact when you use a pot, you become the agressor and you can easily kill the nb whose build is destroyed after that potion

Because they don't want to die. Die ends combat. They want combat that doesn't end until one side has overwhelming odds. Rinse and repeat. And you know what? That's fine! I don't come here to tell people how to play or how not to play. But when a vast majority of players have been given the keys to high health, high armor, high shield builds with very little drawback to damage, it's a little sus how much these same players rail against one skill on one build. They do it because it's the only playstyle in the game that can interrupt their good time.

Stafford197 wrote: »

The issue is kind of complex now but I think there are some major points to make here about super tanky PvP builds.

1. ZOS rebalanced Health, Magicka and Stamina in the past to where it became much less punishing on your damage output to lose points from your primary resource.

2. Hybridization leads to us using our off-resource more often, especially on Stam builds. This means we want more points in our off-resource, when we previously did not care. Naturally this causes Tri-Stat glyphs to become the go to glyphs since they grant additional stats.

3. Some classes… (NB)… have unbelievable single target burst damage. If you don’t stack high health you will simply get oneshot without even seeing it coming. Stack Health to not get oneshot from stealth.

4. Even recent changes are pushing players to stack Health. EX: Warden Arctic Blast is taking a nerf, meaning many players who used to run that ability will now switch to Polar Wind, which scales from Health, further incentivizing stacking extra Health when they otherwise might not have

100% right but nothing would change if NBs didn't exist. ZOS has given everyone the ability to build these insanely durable builds and they will continue to keep playing these setups with or without nightblades on the field. If it was about reigning in damage and "allowing" players to play less tanky builds, I gave simple instructions on how to do so. It isn't about that. They want endless, frustrating fights where players keep slamming their heads against walls in stalemates for hours on end. Maybe that's the point. Most players, it seems to me, aren't able to stop themselves from feeding into this machine.

I suggest it every night in group or zone. Why are we fighting 30 tanks at Aleswell over and over. Let's go here or there and get the map moving. Nope. We have to keep going and going and going. Most players, it seems, cannot walk away from a fight, and if they are stuck in a fight for 3 hours, then that's 3 hours they were playing and not looking for something else to do.

I wouldn’t say that. I think players just want to fight effectively within the PvP gameplay loop created by ZOS. PvP by its nature is competitive and therefore players will play the most effective builds possible to win.

As an extreme example, if Battle Spirit caused us to deal -99% damage while our build has over 25K Maximum Health, then you’d rarely see players above 25K Health anymore. A properly balanced game would not have to do something extreme like that ofc, but I’m only trying to say that this is not a player behavior issue. It’s a poor balance issue. Players will simply use the tools provided to them to play in the most effective manner possible to complete their objectives.

LittlePinkDot

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Not to mention this essentially kills Stamblade and now everyone will just be a Magblade, jumping around while light attacking everywhere until they are ready to cloak with 30k mag.

My sramblade uses heavy armour and dark cloak.
The full time on minr protection and the heal is good with 35k health.

DrSlaughtr

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

DrSlaughtr wrote: »

Not to mention this essentially kills Stamblade and now everyone will just be a Magblade, jumping around while light attacking everywhere until they are ready to cloak with 30k mag.

My sramblade uses heavy armour and dark cloak.
The full time on minr protection and the heal is good with 35k health.

I support your playstyle but this is a much bigger part of what slows down Cyrodiil than scary shadowy disguise.

Ocelot9x

Most of the people run 35k + health just because you are forced to if you are not a nightblade or sorc. People have been stacking health patch after patch since ZOS introduced undodgeable skills and free damage procsets so newbs dont get bored respawning.

PsEu is like 30% nbs too, a change is more than welcome.