Pyrebrand is the single most overpowered set ever added to this game

Prionyx · September 2

It deals 50% more damage than relequen in PvE with no proc conditions and 100% uptime on PvE and melts players with 5k ticks per second in PvP, what were you thinking when letting this ridiculously overpowered set go live?

Syiccal · September 2

I've not seen any 5k PVP ticks?

MarioMario · September 2

It's a nonsensical set. In Alik'r, you find 90% only DKs with this set.

It's like a pre nerf 'savage werewolf' 2.0, (better bonuses: penetration + 2* weapon damage).

According to CMX it procs every time it is re-applyed, so you often get 2 ticks/s.
According to CMX crits on my warden (30k res, 1716 crit res) for 2k/tick in battlegrounds.

It has also built in execute mechanic.

Only DK can wear...

Really balanced.

IncultaWolf · September 2

Honestly, as long as sorcs with hardened ward remain brainless, keep this set the way it is.

TechMaybeHic · September 2

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Honestly, as long as sorcs with hardened ward remain brainless, keep this set the way it is.

LOL To heck with everyone else, right?

Erickson9610 · September 2

People want class diversity, yet they're upset when one class finally has a reason to use a set other than what the other classes use. Every Class Set should be as powerful as Pyrebrand — then we won't need to always use Relequen's and all of the other meta sets on every build on every class.

MarioMario · September 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

People want class diversity, yet they're upset when one class finally has a reason to use a set other than what the other classes use. Every Class Set should be as powerful as Pyrebrand — then we won't need to always use Relequen's and all of the other meta sets on every build on every class.

At the moment, no Class Set is even close to Pyrebrand.

Erickson9610 · September 2

MarioMario wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

People want class diversity, yet they're upset when one class finally has a reason to use a set other than what the other classes use. Every Class Set should be as powerful as Pyrebrand — then we won't need to always use Relequen's and all of the other meta sets on every build on every class.

At the moment, no Class Set is even close to Pyrebrand.

Hopefully that changes soon. I'd rather see the other Class Sets buffed, rather than Pyrebrand nerfed, to give us a reason to play IA and to make our classes use different builds from one another.

Vaqual · September 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

People want class diversity, yet they're upset when one class finally has a reason to use a set other than what the other classes use. Every Class Set should be as powerful as Pyrebrand — then we won't need to always use Relequen's and all of the other meta sets on every build on every class.

This is the same apology that is always brought forth, but this is really just fueling the endless power creep, leaving more and more sets behind and narrowing down the pool of "usable" sets.

I think it took over a year to adjust Mara's Balm to a non-overpowered level, and that with a heavily criticized release.

It is clear that Pyrebrand is way too strong and in the meantime they haven't even managed to acknowledge Tarnished. I just don"t have the energy to deal with this anymore. They are dismantling the one aspect that makes the game stand out. They sabotage there own build crafting by leaving overloaded sets and abilities unchecked, effectively limiting the pool of real options. That PvP becomes insufferable is just an annoying side effect.

Releasing effective and interesting class sets and throwing out OP gear to fuel the next content cycle are still two different things.

And just in case anyone can't do 1+1: You can wear Pyrebrand and Relequen. Happy PvPing.

Erickson9610 · September 2

Vaqual wrote: »

And just in case anyone can't do 1+1: You can wear Pyrebrand and Relequen. Happy PvPing.

Yes, but now Dragonknight damage dealers don't have to wear Relequen's + Pillar of Nirn (or some other secondary 5-piece set). Nearly every Class utilizes the same build because there's no reason for them to use something underpowered.

Ideally, every Class should be able to wear Relequen's + their unique Class Set with unique visuals and proc conditions. They can right now — but why would they, when some Classes only have underpowered Class Sets like Beacon of Oblivion and Monolith of Storms?

Vaqual · September 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

And just in case anyone can't do 1+1: You can wear Pyrebrand and Relequen. Happy PvPing.

Yes, but now Dragonknight damage dealers don't have to wear Relequen's + Pillar of Nirn (or some other secondary 5-piece set). Nearly every Class utilizes the same build because there's no reason for them to use something underpowered.

Ideally, every Class should be able to wear Relequen's + their unique Class Set with unique visuals and proc conditions. They can right now — but why would they, when some Classes only have underpowered Class Sets like Beacon of Oblivion and Monolith of Storms?

Thanks for arguing in good faith. The point that I was trying to make is that the problem are outlier sets like Relequen to begin with. I know isn't feasible to try and work overland drops and trial sets into the same category and that not all sets will be ideal for all purposes. But they keep consistently moving the boundaries of what is acceptable in terms of power, let it steam and annoy people to death, slap on horrible fixes only to then repeat that whole thing with the next batch of sets/abilities. It is tiring and there is no long term benefit to the gameplay.
They are able to make good sets and some problem cases are not that far off, but they keep making the same mistakes to the point where it appears just fully intentional.

Stafford197 · September 2

Vaqual wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

And just in case anyone can't do 1+1: You can wear Pyrebrand and Relequen. Happy PvPing.

Yes, but now Dragonknight damage dealers don't have to wear Relequen's + Pillar of Nirn (or some other secondary 5-piece set). Nearly every Class utilizes the same build because there's no reason for them to use something underpowered.

Ideally, every Class should be able to wear Relequen's + their unique Class Set with unique visuals and proc conditions. They can right now — but why would they, when some Classes only have underpowered Class Sets like Beacon of Oblivion and Monolith of Storms?

Thanks for arguing in good faith. The point that I was trying to make is that the problem are outlier sets like Relequen to begin with. I know isn't feasible to try and work overland drops and trial sets into the same category and that not all sets will be ideal for all purposes. But they keep consistently moving the boundaries of what is acceptable in terms of power, let it steam and annoy people to death, slap on horrible fixes only to then repeat that whole thing with the next batch of sets/abilities. It is tiring and there is no long term benefit to the gameplay.
They are able to make good sets and some problem cases are not that far off, but they keep making the same mistakes to the point where it appears just fully intentional.

Will just say that it is fully intentional. We’ve seen this cycle happen with a large array of new set items: Launch it OP to increase player engagement (or sell DLC) and then nerf it afterwards to make room for the next batch of OP sets.

I would’ve preferred to have all sets (except maybe crafted sets) be Class-specific compared to this. Clearly they have no idea how to make classes wear different sets and play in a fun way otherwise. We’ve had our trial Stam DPS regardless of class using the boring stat buff set Perfected Coral Riptide since 2022 lol.

LittlePinkDot · September 3

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Honestly, as long as sorcs with hardened ward remain brainless, keep this set the way it is.

LOL To heck with everyone else, right?

I think his point was in PvP we were all getting [snip] by sorcs anyway so it didn't matter.

However this doesn't mean PvE should just have to deal with the fallout.

Fyi I think I just thought of a cool build for my Magicka DK. 🤣

[edited for profanity bypass]

StarOfElyon · September 3

Vaqual wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

And just in case anyone can't do 1+1: You can wear Pyrebrand and Relequen. Happy PvPing.

Yes, but now Dragonknight damage dealers don't have to wear Relequen's + Pillar of Nirn (or some other secondary 5-piece set). Nearly every Class utilizes the same build because there's no reason for them to use something underpowered.

Ideally, every Class should be able to wear Relequen's + their unique Class Set with unique visuals and proc conditions. They can right now — but why would they, when some Classes only have underpowered Class Sets like Beacon of Oblivion and Monolith of Storms?

Thanks for arguing in good faith. The point that I was trying to make is that the problem are outlier sets like Relequen to begin with. I know isn't feasible to try and work overland drops and trial sets into the same category and that not all sets will be ideal for all purposes. But they keep consistently moving the boundaries of what is acceptable in terms of power, let it steam and annoy people to death, slap on horrible fixes only to then repeat that whole thing with the next batch of sets/abilities. It is tiring and there is no long term benefit to the gameplay.
They are able to make good sets and some problem cases are not that far off, but they keep making the same mistakes to the point where it appears just fully intentional.

Yes, we remember them calling past damage outputs "obscene". Yet, they continue to add power to the game instead of adding balance.

Prionyx · September 3

Syiccal wrote: »

I've not seen any 5k PVP ticks?

It can double proc since it has the same mechanic as relequen

CameraBeardThePirate · September 3

It's very strong, and probably a little too strong, but class sets should be very powerful, as they're balanced by their low distribution.

MudcrabAttack · September 3

That’s actually pretty cool, I thought ZOS just wanted you to play Arcanist in PVE, and quit making any strong new sets in PVE a long time ago. At least DK gets to have something interesting for a few more weeks before the inevitable destruction of the neat new thing

MarioMario · September 3

Another day in battleground.

I haven't encountered a single DK who doesn't use Pyrebrand, comfortably sitting on it for 13-15% of their damage.

How can you release a set that does 40-50% more damage than Relequen on the dummy? @ZOS_Kevin did they do the math before release?

At least if all classes could use it...

The DK's issue was sustain, and you fixed it with Combustion, which was fine.

Now it's pure cancer.

Joy_Division · September 3

I'd rather have to deal with a specific class set that is perhaps a little too strong as it is at least restrictive and works with a class theme than a brainless set like Rush of Agony that anyone can slap on and is far more disruptive in PVP play. It is preferable a dk be stronger with it's set than in a generic old trial set accessible by everyone

Vaqual · September 3

I have the feeling that a lot of you (the apparent target audience) would eat your words if
A.) other classes actually received access to a new set with equivalent power (looking at sorc, warden and nb atm)
B.) ZOS doesn't adress it for 2 months, the novelty has worn off and every DK is still wearing this

lol had to edit because capital B and bracket became the sunglasses emoji

SkaraMinoc · September 4

Pyrebrand is the equivalent of hypothetical 11 stacks of Relequen and can crit but is on a 2 second tick.

Relequen = 0.052354 MaxPower per stack, up to 0.52354 MaxPower at 10 stacks max (1s tick but can't crit)
Pyrebrand = 0.373828 MaxPower * 1.6 = 0.5981248 MaxPower (2s tick but can crit)

SkaraMinoc · September 4

The 2 second tick brings the damage down because you can't get double ticks every light attack. If Pyrebrand had a 1 second tick like Relequen then it would need a nerf. But it doesn't and Pyrebrand is fine as-is. It's an S-tier pressure set.

Would like to see other class sets brought up in power to be more in line with Pyrebrand.

TechMaybeHic · September 4

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'd rather have to deal with a specific class set that is perhaps a little too strong as it is at least restrictive and works with a class theme than a brainless set like Rush of Agony that anyone can slap on and is far more disruptive in PVP play. It is preferable a dk be stronger with it's set than in a generic old trial set accessible by everyone

That's where I'm leaning for now. I dont think thst many people have this set yet, but what I have seen, I am more ok with it over RoA bombs and Tarnished gankers. Maybe my opinion will change as it gets more wide spread

BananaBender · September 4

MarioMario wrote: »

How can you release a set that does 40-50% more damage than Relequen on the dummy? @ZOS_Kevin did they do the math before release?

The set is good but not overperforming in PvE, I really hope they wont nerf the first good new set since Azureblight rework just because of PvP.

Aurielle · September 4

Thanks, OP. My Trickery/Plaguebreak DK was feeling a bit stale, and I had thousands of Archive Fortunes burning a hole in my pocket, so… I spent them all.

Now the question is this: ranged or melee? Haven’t played a ranged mDK in quite some time, but this set could make it viable again in conjunction with some scribed skills… Will probably stick with melee, though.

Edit: Although, now that I think about it… a bow/bow dot-focused stam DK could be hilarious with Pyrebrand, especially during the execute phase. I’m leaning more and more towards playing ranged these days on all of my characters with all the RoA-spamming ball groups running around Cyrodiil. We’ll see, might be worth a try.

MarioMario · September 4

BananaBender wrote: »

MarioMario wrote: »

How can you release a set that does 40-50% more damage than Relequen on the dummy? @ZOS_Kevin did they do the math before release?

The set is good but not overperforming in PvE, I really hope they wont nerf the first good new set since Azureblight rework just because of PvP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOxhioR3u70

Not overperforming?

BananaBender · September 4

MarioMario wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

MarioMario wrote: »

How can you release a set that does 40-50% more damage than Relequen on the dummy? @ZOS_Kevin did they do the math before release?

The set is good but not overperforming in PvE, I really hope they wont nerf the first good new set since Azureblight rework just because of PvP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOxhioR3u70

Not overperforming?

How is that overperforming? Just because something new is stronger than something old doesn't mean that it's "overperforming", it's just a strong set. It's strong in single target, no doubt about that and it can be used really well in single target fights outside of dummy, but it isn't overperforming at all. It doesn't trivialize any fights or anything like that. It's really nice to see something new in this extremely stale meta.

We could have a discussion if Mechanical Acuity, Azureblight or Balorgh are sets that are overperforming, but Pyrebrand (and Relequen) is far from that list.

MarioMario · September 4

Relequen is the set with the highest single-target damage, practically 'meta' forever. It has always been toxic in PvP, but at least it had terrible bonuses that balanced out the damage (stamina + 2*crit).

Now there's a set ONLY for DK that deals not 5%, not 10%... but 40% more damage and has 3 excellent bonuses (penetration + 2*wd/sd).

If you don't understand why it's OP, you have very little knowledge of the game.

BananaBender · September 4

MarioMario wrote: »

Relequen is the set with the highest single-target damage, practically 'meta' forever. It has always been toxic in PvP, but at least it had terrible bonuses that balanced out the damage (stamina + 2*crit).

Now there's a set ONLY for DK that deals not 5%, not 10%... but 40% more damage and has 3 excellent bonuses (penetration + 2*wd/sd).

If you don't understand why it's OP, you have very little knowledge of the game.

Ah yes, talking about something other than PvP must mean that I have very little knowledge of the game.
I'm sure a true genius of the game, such as yourself, would know that crit is the best stat you can get from your set and wd/sd, let alone penetration are way worse.

Is the set strong? Yes. Is it the single most overpowered set ever added to this game? Absolutely not. Just because you got killed by it in PvP doesn't mean it's overperforming.

Dagoth_Rac · September 4

Prionyx wrote: »

It deals 50% more damage than relequen in PvE with no proc conditions and 100% uptime on PvE and melts players with 5k ticks per second in PvP, what were you thinking when letting this ridiculously overpowered set go live?

Does it really tick per second? Or is that 5k every 2 seconds and thus similar to a Relequen tick of 2.5k per second? Or can you proc Pyrebrand multiple times and end up with different stacks ticking at different times and thus you do end up with it ticking every second?

Basically, it is not clear to me if further stacks just buff the damage of the initial DoT, or if each stack is its own separate DoT?

MarioMario · September 4

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

It deals 50% more damage than relequen in PvE with no proc conditions and 100% uptime on PvE and melts players with 5k ticks per second in PvP, what were you thinking when letting this ridiculously overpowered set go live?

Does it really tick per second? Or is that 5k every 2 seconds and thus similar to a Relequen tick of 2.5k per second? Or can you proc Pyrebrand multiple times and end up with different stacks ticking at different times and thus you do end up with it ticking every second?

Basically, it is not clear to me if further stacks just buff the damage of the initial DoT, or if each stack is its own separate DoT?

It does not stacks but ticks istantly every time you re-apply, so every 1second with a correct light attack weave. You can get 2 ticks in 1 second if it ticks before light attack lands, this happens mostly in PvP.