the tbag allowed?

Rlacoste

if i report these players what will happen?

valenwood_vegan

See the last comment in this thread, where there was a recent discussion of the issue: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662651/teabagging

katanagirl1

I don’t think the question about how to ask enemy players to stop when zone text chat is alliance-only was ever addressed.

Unfortunately the thread was closed so there is no way to ask again.

virtus753

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t think the question about how to ask enemy players to stop when zone text chat is alliance-only was ever addressed.

Unfortunately the thread was closed so there is no way to ask again.

ZOS has said that if you cannot contact the player you want to ask to stop (say if they're in offline mode or have a name that is hard to reproduce), putting the request in any channel so ZOS can see it in the screenshot or video is acceptable. That also means anyone in offline mode needs to be aware that if they teabag someone, they are putting themselves in a position to be reported even if they don't see a request to stop. That is a potential consequence of making oneself unreachable, which would otherwise be a way to circumvent accountability.

Wuduwasa13

virtus753 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t think the question about how to ask enemy players to stop when zone text chat is alliance-only was ever addressed.

Unfortunately the thread was closed so there is no way to ask again.

ZOS has said that if you cannot contact the player you want to ask to stop (say if they're in offline mode or have a name that is hard to reproduce), putting the request in any channel so ZOS can see it in the screenshot or video is acceptable. That also means anyone in offline mode needs to be aware that if they teabag someone, they are putting themselves in a position to be reported even if they don't see a request to stop. That is a potential consequence of making oneself unreachable, which would otherwise be a way to circumvent accountability.

You wouldn’t happen to have any idea where the original comment from ZOS was that pertains to this particular issue would you?

KapiteinBoterham

There are over 300 emotes in this game. If someone's way to express themselves after a kill is to press crouch a couple of times, you should just feel bad for them and severely question their mental capabilities.

virtus753

Wuduwasa13 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t think the question about how to ask enemy players to stop when zone text chat is alliance-only was ever addressed.

Unfortunately the thread was closed so there is no way to ask again.

ZOS has said that if you cannot contact the player you want to ask to stop (say if they're in offline mode or have a name that is hard to reproduce), putting the request in any channel so ZOS can see it in the screenshot or video is acceptable. That also means anyone in offline mode needs to be aware that if they teabag someone, they are putting themselves in a position to be reported even if they don't see a request to stop. That is a potential consequence of making oneself unreachable, which would otherwise be a way to circumvent accountability.

You wouldn’t happen to have any idea where the original comment from ZOS was that pertains to this particular issue would you?

viva voce, the first time I heard it explained years ago.

Kevin also mentioned it here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8157509/#Comment_8157509

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8157651/#Comment_8157651

If you are in a PvP area, the only way to reach the other player is generally through DMs (though it is possible for players to do it to their own alliance, of course). So there is no way to reach them if they are in offline mode. Put it somewhere ZOS can see in the screenshot or video.

katanagirl1

virtus753 wrote: »

Wuduwasa13 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t think the question about how to ask enemy players to stop when zone text chat is alliance-only was ever addressed.

Unfortunately the thread was closed so there is no way to ask again.

ZOS has said that if you cannot contact the player you want to ask to stop (say if they're in offline mode or have a name that is hard to reproduce), putting the request in any channel so ZOS can see it in the screenshot or video is acceptable. That also means anyone in offline mode needs to be aware that if they teabag someone, they are putting themselves in a position to be reported even if they don't see a request to stop. That is a potential consequence of making oneself unreachable, which would otherwise be a way to circumvent accountability.

You wouldn’t happen to have any idea where the original comment from ZOS was that pertains to this particular issue would you?

viva voce, the first time I heard it explained years ago.

Kevin also mentioned it here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8157509/#Comment_8157509

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8157651/#Comment_8157651

If you are in a PvP area, the only way to reach the other player is generally through DMs (though it is possible for players to do it to their own alliance, of course). So there is no way to reach them if they are in offline mode. Put it somewhere ZOS can see in the screenshot or video.

Yeah, I read all those when they were posted but I am not sure how posting in a “general channel” is counted as asking to stop. I assume that means zone text chat. The offending player isn’t going to see it, so why even bother? It doesn’t matter if they are in offline mode or not.

By DM does that mean you have to look up their account name on PS for me, for example, and send them a PSN message?

I’m just asking for clarification for the thread. There is no way I’m going to bother to do all that. Easier to just move on even if it is offensive.

darvaria

It's the implied physical contact that makes T Bagging a problem. And 2 demographic groups have expressed concern over it.

This "contact" method is not viable in PVP. But @Kevin's reply does show ZOS has considered it. But you need to go a step further. I have proposed just changing this emote to the little dark shadowy cloud, with no crouching. Then if ppl want to stand over someone, there is no implied physical contact.

I find the implied physical contact of repeated crouching and push ups over dead bodies to be COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. Both of these emotes are outside of acceptable social morays.

Why not eliminate pushups which offer NO in game value and change Crouch animation? There are multiple records of complaints (consider this important) so why not just eliminate/change something that is nothing but a liability in waiting?

They can shovel, kissthis, laugh ... anything that does NOT imply physical contact.

Darv

virtus753

katanagirl1 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Wuduwasa13 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t think the question about how to ask enemy players to stop when zone text chat is alliance-only was ever addressed.

Unfortunately the thread was closed so there is no way to ask again.

ZOS has said that if you cannot contact the player you want to ask to stop (say if they're in offline mode or have a name that is hard to reproduce), putting the request in any channel so ZOS can see it in the screenshot or video is acceptable. That also means anyone in offline mode needs to be aware that if they teabag someone, they are putting themselves in a position to be reported even if they don't see a request to stop. That is a potential consequence of making oneself unreachable, which would otherwise be a way to circumvent accountability.

You wouldn’t happen to have any idea where the original comment from ZOS was that pertains to this particular issue would you?

viva voce, the first time I heard it explained years ago.

Kevin also mentioned it here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8157509/#Comment_8157509

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8157651/#Comment_8157651

If you are in a PvP area, the only way to reach the other player is generally through DMs (though it is possible for players to do it to their own alliance, of course). So there is no way to reach them if they are in offline mode. Put it somewhere ZOS can see in the screenshot or video.

Yeah, I read all those when they were posted but I am not sure how posting in a “general channel” is counted as asking to stop. I assume that means zone text chat. The offending player isn’t going to see it, so why even bother? It doesn’t matter if they are in offline mode or not.

By DM does that mean you have to look up their account name on PS for me, for example, and send them a PSN message?

I’m just asking for clarification for the thread. There is no way I’m going to bother to do all that. Easier to just move on even if it is offensive.

General channel can mean more than zone chat (which is a channel that is not usable by a player whose character is dead). It could even be construed to mean any channel that is not a DM. All I can say is ZOS explained it as something that helps them verify you did not want the behavior to continue. If the person doing the teabagging is in offline mode or otherwise makes themselves unreachable, there is no realistic way for them to get the message, but it’s important that that not be a way for players to circumvent rules or consequences. It’s also important for ZOS that they see you asked the behavior to stop, even if the message could not reach the other person due to their decision to play in offline mode. The person who wants a behavior to stop has to be on record in game as saying the behavior is unwanted; if the message doesn’t go through via DM, then put it in another channel so it appears on screen. (A DM sent to a player who is in offline mode does not actually appear in the chat box once sent. An error message is printed to chat instead.)

DM as in an in-game direct message (i.e. whisper or tell). As far as I’m aware ZOS does not ask us to use channels outside the game.

LikiLoki

It is resolved by mutual agreement. You have to ask and get consent. There is also a mobile application for the convenience of confirming consent.

Wuduwasa13

virtus753 wrote: »

Wuduwasa13 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t think the question about how to ask enemy players to stop when zone text chat is alliance-only was ever addressed.

Unfortunately the thread was closed so there is no way to ask again.

ZOS has said that if you cannot contact the player you want to ask to stop (say if they're in offline mode or have a name that is hard to reproduce), putting the request in any channel so ZOS can see it in the screenshot or video is acceptable. That also means anyone in offline mode needs to be aware that if they teabag someone, they are putting themselves in a position to be reported even if they don't see a request to stop. That is a potential consequence of making oneself unreachable, which would otherwise be a way to circumvent accountability.

You wouldn’t happen to have any idea where the original comment from ZOS was that pertains to this particular issue would you?

viva voce, the first time I heard it explained years ago.

Kevin also mentioned it here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8157509/#Comment_8157509

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8157651/#Comment_8157651

If you are in a PvP area, the only way to reach the other player is generally through DMs (though it is possible for players to do it to their own alliance, of course). So there is no way to reach them if they are in offline mode. Put it somewhere ZOS can see in the screenshot or video.

Cheers for this.

Four_Fingers

A bug that caused characters to be naked a couple of years ago proved that we and npcs do not have private parts, so...
Dead Horse.

AngryPenguin

The best way to discourage teabagging is to not do it yourself. Just saying just in case.

Syldras

darvaria wrote: »

It's the implied physical contact that makes T Bagging a problem. And 2 demographic groups have expressed concern over it.

Apart from that, the only reason this ever came to existence 2 decades ago was the homophobic connotations (as it was first used in games with all-male characters). A simple, primitive "Haha, you get crotch into face = you gay!" (Can't word it more precisely, due to the word filter). That's also the reason it is named the way it's named. Homophobic insults, slurs and "jokes" were common in gaming back then, and this was basically just another one of them.

So, over the years the idea of what was acceptable changed in that regard. ESO has a policy (for the forum as well as for the game) that using the word "gay" as an insult is forbidden. And I know they are very serious about this.

This leads to the question why doing exactly the same thing not in words, but as a gesture, is considered absolutely fine?

I have no horse in this race, really. It just makes me wonder as it seems inconsistent. If you could make racist gestures in a game, they would surely forbid that, too, not only racist insults worded in chat. Just saying.

GuuMoonRyoung

If you water down pvp with restriction on what can or can't be done with your pixels, you get GW2. A game that had massive and I mean HUGE MASSIVE pvp crowd, now barely fill up WvW. I don't want to tell anybody what to do, but what I do is that I don't give rat's ass about what pixels do on pixels.

Maybe someday we will enter a very realistic virtual world mmo where things in virtual world would have real life side effects, I will be offended by tbagging then.

Syldras

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

If you water down pvp with restriction on what can or can't be done with your pixels, you get GW2. A game that had massive and I mean HUGE MASSIVE pvp crowd, now barely fill up WvW. I don't want to tell anybody what to do, but what I do is that I don't give rat's ass about what pixels do on pixels.

I have no clue about GW2. Actually, I haven't PvPed in shooters and rpgs for many years now. But if a PvP mode or game would lose a big part of the playerbase because of a teabagging ban, I'd assume the game itself doesn't offer much, really.

TheMajority

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

If you water down pvp with restriction on what can or can't be done with your pixels, you get GW2. A game that had massive and I mean HUGE MASSIVE pvp crowd, now barely fill up WvW. I don't want to tell anybody what to do, but what I do is that I don't give rat's ass about what pixels do on pixels.

Maybe someday we will enter a very realistic virtual world mmo where things in virtual world would have real life side effects, I will be offended by tbagging then.

virtual world may not be real, but what actions represent is still a real concept.

the word "no" still counts even in a virtual space.

all people are individual. what feels okay for you is not for another, and we must be empathetic to this even in virtual society where we share a space.

other individuals are not an inanimate object you get to do whatever you want to, that includes their belongings like virtual characters in a virtual space. real person is behind the screen with real emotions and thoughts.

to me, defending this when someone has said "no" tells me that these individuals have a fundamental disrespect for others to work through. to continue it when one realized how it could be seen or make someone feel is a moral problem. to decide this is "fun" to upset people, why would you delight in other people having pain?

we have gone too long in society acting like there should be no consequence for actions, words of hate, hateful behaviors, and homophobia in virtual spaces. it gets worse through the years where now, people treat others in real life as NPC they can do whatever they want to, without consequence, for social media likes.

so I would say that even if what happens in a virtual space is not reality, it is having effect on our reality and the behavior of people in real life and must be treated as problematic.

wolfie1.0.

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

If you water down pvp with restriction on what can or can't be done with your pixels, you get GW2. A game that had massive and I mean HUGE MASSIVE pvp crowd, now barely fill up WvW. I don't want to tell anybody what to do, but what I do is that I don't give rat's ass about what pixels do on pixels.

Maybe someday we will enter a very realistic virtual world mmo where things in virtual world would have real life side effects, I will be offended by tbagging then.

ESO pvp isn't exactly anything goes you can and will get some aspects of a ban if you push rhe code of conduct. All people are asking for is some enhanced enforcement of those rules. It's not like tbagging has any real meaningful positive aspect to it. It won't buff your character, it won't make you have perfect skill triggers, it won't prevent you from dying, it won't make you play better, and it won't fix the pvp lag issue. Nothing is really lost if the action is bannable.

All it really does is promote that pvp is more toxic than it should be and drive more players away from the content, and if that happens too much then that content will be ignored or dropped from the game.

Do we really want that to be how pvp ends?

spartaxoxo

Whether or not tea bagging is seen as positive or negative is going to be on the individual player. There is a camaraderie that is lost when it's use is outright banned between players who enjoy friendly rivalry between like minded players. Some even form friendships out of rivalry.

While the origins of tea bagging aren't good, they also have little bearing on what people mean when they do it now. Now it's just a taunt that's been around for years and years and means "lol you lost" or "I'm better than you at this game" essentially. Some people will be upset by trash talk. And others are will see it as a friendly challenge and try to best their opponent. Neither are wrong.

So, if someone doesn't like it, they should say so. And the person doing it should respect that and leave them alone. And if they don't, they should be reported. That's ZOS policy and it is good one imo. It takes the needs of both people who like it and who don't into account.

Photosniper89

It. is. a. video. game.

spartaxoxo

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It. is. a. video. game.

There are real people behind the screens. PvP is not players versus NPCs. Whenever there is human interaction, etiquette is necessary.

ESO_player123

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Whether or not tea bagging is seen as positive or negative is going to be on the individual player. There is a camaraderie that is lost when it's use is outright banned between players who enjoy friendly rivalry between like minded players. Some even form friendships out of rivalry.

While the origins of tea bagging aren't good, they also have little bearing on what people mean when they do it now. Now it's just a taunt that's been around for years and years and means "lol you lost" or "I'm better than you at this game" essentially. Some people will be upset by trash talk. And others are will see it as a friendly challenge and try to best their opponent. Neither are wrong.

So, if someone doesn't like it, they should say so. And the person doing it should respect that and leave them alone. And if they don't, they should be reported. That's ZOS policy and it is good one imo. It takes the needs of both people who like it and who don't into account.

A player that does not like someone's behavior should not be forced to jump through such hoops just to say no (cases when the offender is in offline mode and others mentioned in these topics).

Edit: it was mentioned before that there are groups of people to whom this action is offensive and does not mean 'just a taunt that's been around for years and years and means "lol you lost"''. So, if someone insist on doing this to strangers (not among a group of friends that are all ok with it) while knowing the origins of this action, that means they are DELIBERATELY choosing to insult another person in a very specific manner. There are many emotes to choose from in this game that can show "lol you lost" that do not have this baggage.

spartaxoxo

ESO_player123 wrote: »

A player that does not like someone's behavior should not be forced to jump through such hoops just to say no (cases when the offender is in offline mode and others mentioned in these topics).

I agree there. They should not require video. And teabagging while in offline mode should be considered the same as ignoring someone telling you not to do it. Since the purpose of offline mode is to ignore whispers.

But, that's a separate idea than teabagging should be automatically bannable and that nothing would be lost if it was, which is the sentiment I was addressing.

ESO_player123

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

A player that does not like someone's behavior should not be forced to jump through such hoops just to say no (cases when the offender is in offline mode and others mentioned in these topics).

I agree there. They should not require video. And teabagging while in offline mode should be considered the same as ignoring someone telling you not to do it. Since the purpose of offline mode is to ignore whispers.

But, that's a separate idea than teabagging should be automatically bannable and that nothing would be lost if it was, which is the sentiment I was addressing.

I have to disagree with you here. In the edit in my reply to you I wrote that there are many emotes that can be used to convey the "lol you lost" message. So, tbagging can be easily replaced with one of those.

I do not know about "automatically bannable", but I think that ZOS should take a firmer stance on it and let every one know that it's not acceptable.

spartaxoxo

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I have to disagree with you here. In the edit in my reply to you I wrote that there are many emotes that can be used to convey the "lol you lost" message. So, tbagging can be easily replaced with one of those.

None of those other emotes have the decades long, medium-spanning, history that tea bagging does. Tea bagging immediately signals to another player who enjoys it camaraderie and not just taunting alone.

Syldras

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Whether or not tea bagging is seen as positive or negative is going to be on the individual player. There is a camaraderie that is lost when it's use is outright banned between players who enjoy friendly rivalry between like minded players. Some even form friendships out of rivalry.

And how would one know if that person one is doing it to enjoys this if it's a stranger? Especially without asking? Groups of friends (or in general: consenting people) can meet in private and shove whatever body parts they want into each other's faces, be in online or in real life, I really don't care. But we're talking about encounters with strangers here.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

While the origins of tea bagging aren't good, they also have little bearing on what people mean when they do it now. Now it's just a taunt that's been around for years and years and means "lol you lost" or "I'm better than you at this game" essentially.

I wouldn't generalize that. For some it might be completely meaningless, for others the "joke" might still be the homophobia between the lines (homophobia still exists, after all). One never knows.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

So, if someone doesn't like it, they should say so.

In all other aspects of life, consent is asked for beforehand, not after doing something to another person.

spartaxoxo

Syldras wrote: »

I wouldn't generalize that. For some it might be completely meaningless, for others the "joke" might still be the homophobia between the lines (homophobia still exists, after all). One never knows.

For most that's what it means. And people should be innocent until proven guilty when it's that ambiguous.

Syldras wrote: »

In all other aspects of life, consent is asked for beforehand, not after doing something to another person.

In general, people consider consenting to activities to be also mean consenting to normal actions within that activity. You don't generally ask permission before hitting someone with a water balloon in a water fight.

Trash talk is generally viewed as a fairly normal part of sports. Tea bagging is the video game equivalent of that. You are not making real contact with another person. It's non-physical communication.

ESO_player123

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I have to disagree with you here. In the edit in my reply to you I wrote that there are many emotes that can be used to convey the "lol you lost" message. So, tbagging can be easily replaced with one of those.

None of those other emotes have the decades long, medium-spanning, history that tea bagging does. Tea bagging immediately signals to another player who enjoys it camaraderie and not just taunting alone.

And the bolded part is the most important here. I do not care what a group of friends enjoy doing while they are playing together. Once an outsider is involved, that is a different story.

TheMajority

spartaxoxo wrote: »

While the origins of tea bagging aren't good, they also have little bearing on what people mean when they do it now. Now it's just a taunt that's been around for years and years and means "lol you lost" or "I'm better than you at this game" essentially. Some people will be upset by trash talk. And others are will see it as a friendly challenge and try to best their opponent. Neither are wrong.

spent time in the pvp campaigns during MYM, while PVP players come to the forum and claim it "does not mean that" the things they say in world chat about t-bag certainly seems to imply to me that they very much find the connotations funny as many of the "jokes" were harassing and of r-rated content. and it was not banter between people having fun it was people getting genuine upset about it to each other and going back and fourth.

i dont say it to "bash", I say it to raise awareness. I am tired of being gaslight by people who say "oh it does not mean that" when it very much do.

go ahead and do it between friends if it means different between friends, but dont do it to strangers who didnt consent to your "funny joke"

noteice: this is not all PVP players. some have honor and don't do these behaviors. to you, I salute.

oh, and to add- they were t-bag their OWN faction who was asking them to stop

spartaxoxo

ESO_player123 wrote: »

And the bolded part is the most important here. I do not care what a group of friends enjoy doing while they are playing together. Once an outsider is involved, that is a different story.

People do it outsiders to have fun and make new friends.

TheMajority wrote: »

i dont say it to "bash", I say it to raise awareness. I am tired of being gaslight by people who say "oh it does not mean that" when it very much do.

You can't judge the meaning of a term solely by the people who are using it in a bad way. There are plenty of other words in the English language that can have positive or negative connotations depending on how it's used. The ones arguing in zone and harassing one another are obviously not being positive.