Nerf Hardened Ward POLL VOTE

Jsmalls · August 27

Change to heal over time rather burst heal under ward, requires swapping to back bar for defensive rather just staying offensive while face tanking aka talentess

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

How is Ward balanced against Runespite Ward if this were the case?

Why are we still talking about D tier Arcs, who have no spammable heal and no coherent offensive kit.

@xylena_lazarow

Because it's the closest ability in the game to compare it against.

No spammable "class" heal. Wield Soul exist and it can create a crux and provide major vitality when used.

xylena_lazarow · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

Jsmalls wrote: »

No spammable "class" heal. Wield Soul exist and it can create a crux and provide major vitality when used.

Wait til you see what Sorcs can do with the Scribing system...

Bushido2513 · August 27

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

neat unanimous support

65% for a Ward nerf is a mathematically strong majority that should be able to pass a decision. Players don't need to agree on a solution because players aren't devs and it's not our job, just agree on a problem, a literal majority of us do.

A nerf is not the same as a reversion to the original. These two are only identical in that they would result in a change to ward, that's it.

There are 65 percent that are ok with two very different changes to ward. Not 65 percent that agree on a specific change to ward.

If the 65 percent was in agreement on the change they wanted they would have all voted on the same option right?

Jsmalls · August 27

Change to heal over time rather burst heal under ward, requires swapping to back bar for defensive rather just staying offensive while face tanking aka talentess

Oh I'm aware. I personally don't think Major Vitality, Major Defile, or Major Cowardice should exist on Wield soul. They are too strong of buffs to be accessed so easily.

TechMaybeHic · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

I really dislike scribing being put out as a way for classes without to have what is very basic on another class in justification for the other class to have equivalent of the lacking class best ability. It concerns me that this is where balance is heading and its terrible that a class lacking needs to make up for short falls while a class not lacking can get even better and somehow it is considered balanced

Ren_TheRedFox · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

@Jsmalls have you seen the cost of arc skills? They might have "crazy" recovery buffs but the cost of their skills is ridiculous. Besides that arc shields scale off max hp and no other damage ability does whereas sorc shields scale off max magicka ... you're playing a sorc yourself. Having 50k+ max mag means a curse that hits for around 20k or a frag that hits for 18k and the proc one for 23k ... also arcs don't have access to passive healing like sorcs do ... crit surge heals, blood magic heals, dark exchange heals, you have 20% more recovery and 6% cost reduction ... so no it's not the same ... arcs have to either build max hp or max rss ... sorcs don't have to so taking away that heal from ward won't hurt them. Before all the buffs they got yes they needed a burst heal that would heal them when they need it but now they have a lot of heals. Like I said so much passive healing and if you're still not satisfied with that ... use encase ... it's the best AoE heal in the game given the fact that it applies major maim and minor vitality.

xylena_lazarow · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

Jsmalls wrote: »

Oh I'm aware. I personally don't think Major Vitality, Major Defile, or Major Cowardice should exist on Wield soul. They are too strong of buffs to be accessed so easily.

Spending your Affix on a defensive buff for your offensive spammable is a significant opportunity cost. The Scribing system is excellent for Sorc and exactly the correct sort of buff Sorc needed, allowing them the bar flexibility and full buff kit they've been missing for years. MagSorc in my group has a buffed 17k tooltip on his Soul spammable with class sig, and has been experimenting with dropping Surge since MagSorcs usually don't need it or even have dots to trigger it.

Designing Sorc bars with Scribing takes skill. Mashing your face into an overtuned healy shield does not. Sorc has a loaded class burst heal in Shroud, endless bar flexibility, and all the named buffs they needed. Ward is just egregious. I'm running a triple shield stack DK with no burst heal like an old school MagSorc, feels very strong. The playstyle is long proven.

Ren_TheRedFox · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

@xylena_lazarow not sure if it takes much skill to "design" sorc bars with scribing. All you need is wield soul with shock or physical damage, the class script and major defile ... that's at least what's the majority is running ... but yeah sorcs are too strong this patch ... it takes more than 2 people to kill them on an off-meta class due to their defensive playstyle

Azzras · August 27

Keep Ward how it is, talentless

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Azzras oh yeah And templars are S tier plus

I do love some sarcasm, but Sorcs aren't as good as DK or NB. That's just fact.

Ren_TheRedFox · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

@Azzras you must be kidding me right?

xylena_lazarow · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

All you need is wield soul with shock or physical damage, the class script and major defile ... that's at least what's the majority is running

And that's where the skill comes in, because this can be better minmaxed and expanded or compressed.

Ren_TheRedFox · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

@xylena_lazarow I'm just wondering how much more people want the sorc to get buffed ... people are complaining about the new class set but forgetting that buffing it would make sorcs even worse in PvP ... idk seems like getting everything for free or with almost no effort is what everyone wants now on ESO ... just sad

TechMaybeHic · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@xylena_lazarow I'm just wondering how much more people want the sorc to get buffed ... people are complaining about the new class set but forgetting that buffing it would make sorcs even worse in PvP ... idk seems like getting everything for free or with almost no effort is what everyone wants now on ESO ... just sad

I thought about commenting on this stuff, at least as far as being mentioned as a "priority" when sorc has received a ton of attention while other classes sit and rot; but they can say what they want and think matters most to them. I give up already.

Bushido2513 · August 27

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I really dislike scribing being put out as a way for classes without to have what is very basic on another class in justification for the other class to have equivalent of the lacking class best ability. It concerns me that this is where balance is heading and its terrible that a class lacking needs to make up for short falls while a class not lacking can get even better and somehow it is considered balanced

Yeah I'm not ok with let me sell you an answer instead of fixing the original issue. New skills should be about more choices on top of existing good choices, not choices that fix unfixed issues

Azzras · August 27

Keep Ward how it is, talentless

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Azzras you must be kidding me right?

Sorcs are either easy to kill or they run away. What's wrong with your build that you're here blasting me for stating facts?
I don't know what to tell you if you can't beat a sorc....get gud?

Galeriano2 · August 27

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@xylena_lazarow I'm just wondering how much more people want the sorc to get buffed ... people are complaining about the new class set but forgetting that buffing it would make sorcs even worse in PvP ... idk seems like getting everything for free or with almost no effort is what everyone wants now on ESO ... just sad

There is plenty of ways to buff new sorc's set without making it stronger in PvP.

Galeriano2 · August 27

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

No spammable "class" heal. Wield Soul exist and it can create a crux and provide major vitality when used.

Wait til you see what Sorcs can do with the Scribing system...

Same goes for arc tbh.

xylena_lazarow · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

Galeriano2 wrote: »

Same goes for arc tbh.

Scribing isn't saving Arc from having the worst offensive kit in PvP, behind even Necro.

Bushido2513 · August 27

Azzras wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Azzras you must be kidding me right?

Sorcs are either easy to kill or they run away. What's wrong with your build that you're here blasting me for stating facts?
I don't know what to tell you if you can't beat a sorc....get gud?

This is actually very true! If you're chasing the sorc with 4 nbs with Tarnished or maybe 3 other sorcs lol. At that point they are fairly easy to kill 🤣

katorga · August 27

Keep Ward how it is, talentless

Assuming the same effective spell power (damage + max resource), my other classes' burst heals are generally the same size as my Sorc's shield+heal value. Seems balanced to me. I play NB most right now, and the tooltip for Offering is within 800 of the combined shield+heal tooltip on my Hardened Ward....same sets on both and roughly the same stats on both toons.

In fact, I kinda expect ZOS to buff Arcanist wards to function the same way, removing the crux mechanic.

Ren_TheRedFox · August 27

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

@katorga well the problem is you're getting a burst heal with the same amount and a shield ...

Bushido2513 · August 27

katorga wrote: »

Assuming the same effective spell power (damage + max resource), my other classes' burst heals are generally the same size as my Sorc's shield+heal value. Seems balanced to me. I play NB most right now, and the tooltip for Offering is within 800 of the combined shield+heal tooltip on my Hardened Ward....same sets on both and roughly the same stats on both toons.

In fact, I kinda expect ZOS to buff Arcanist wards to function the same way, removing the crux mechanic.

You have to remember we're talking about a 14k shield with a 4k heal after battle spirit. Are you saying your tooltip for healthy is around 36k, because that's would it would have to be before Battle Spirit to match what a so to match what a sorc gets.

Truth is that no heal with similar damage is matching the total value that a min maxed sorc gets.

Also when a player hits heal at full health that get nothing. A sorc gets 14k of effective health for 6 seconds.

katorga · August 28

Keep Ward how it is, talentless

Bushido2513 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Assuming the same effective spell power (damage + max resource), my other classes' burst heals are generally the same size as my Sorc's shield+heal value. Seems balanced to me. I play NB most right now, and the tooltip for Offering is within 800 of the combined shield+heal tooltip on my Hardened Ward....same sets on both and roughly the same stats on both toons.

In fact, I kinda expect ZOS to buff Arcanist wards to function the same way, removing the crux mechanic.

Also when a player hits heal at full health that get nothing. A sorc gets 14k of effective health for 6 seconds.

pls....resetting the fight back to 100% is all that matters. How is immaterial. Since some classes can, all classes should be able to.

The main problem with Hardened Ward is that to hit a 14K ward means you have to forego using Tarnished Nightmare

Joy_Division · August 28

Jsmalls wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

How is Ward balanced against Runespite Ward if this were the case?

Why are we still talking about D tier Arcs, who have no spammable heal and no coherent offensive kit.

@xylena_lazarow

Because it's the closest ability in the game to compare it against.

It is the closest ability. Both are very strong.

But what makes Hardened Ward so frustration is that it is paired with an amazing kit: it also has Streak, it also is with max-ranged burst, it is with a class with a coherent and potent offensive abilities.

People don;t really complain about those perma-blocking tanks running around in Cyrodiil on their DKs, Necros, and Templars because while they are very annoying, they are easily avoidable and are basically harmless to players who know what they are doing. It doesn't really matter that they are so tanky so don;t care.

If Arcs had any offensive kit aside from beaming people who have been pulled and stunned, there would absolutely be more complaints about how strong their Ward is.

Galeriano2 · August 28

katorga wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Assuming the same effective spell power (damage + max resource), my other classes' burst heals are generally the same size as my Sorc's shield+heal value. Seems balanced to me. I play NB most right now, and the tooltip for Offering is within 800 of the combined shield+heal tooltip on my Hardened Ward....same sets on both and roughly the same stats on both toons.

In fact, I kinda expect ZOS to buff Arcanist wards to function the same way, removing the crux mechanic.

Also when a player hits heal at full health that get nothing. A sorc gets 14k of effective health for 6 seconds.

pls....resetting the fight back to 100% is all that matters. How is immaterial. Since some classes can, all classes should be able to.

The main problem with Hardened Ward is that to hit a 14K ward means you have to forego using Tarnished Nightmare

To ber honest 14k shield is achievable without max mag stacking sets. Someone in wretched+rallying cry can achieve that value.

Jsmalls · August 28

Change to heal over time rather burst heal under ward, requires swapping to back bar for defensive rather just staying offensive while face tanking aka talentess

Joy_Division wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

How is Ward balanced against Runespite Ward if this were the case?

Why are we still talking about D tier Arcs, who have no spammable heal and no coherent offensive kit.

@xylena_lazarow

Because it's the closest ability in the game to compare it against.

It is the closest ability. Both are very strong.

But what makes Hardened Ward so frustration is that it is paired with an amazing kit: it also has Streak, it also is with max-ranged burst, it is with a class with a coherent and potent offensive abilities.

People don;t really complain about those perma-blocking tanks running around in Cyrodiil on their DKs, Necros, and Templars because while they are very annoying, they are easily avoidable and are basically harmless to players who know what they are doing. It doesn't really matter that they are so tanky so don;t care.

If Arcs had any offensive kit aside from beaming people who have been pulled and stunned, there would absolutely be more complaints about how strong their Ward is.

I'm not here to disagree with this because all of my complaints for Sorc have been addressed over the past 2 years.

We received damage buffs in the form of minor berserk on Dark conversion/deal, bound aegis on both bars, and 10% magicka passive. Coupled with an S tier spammable in Wield Soul.

The 10% magicka passive (coupled with bound aegis) also gave us flexibility of set choices while maintaining the viability of Ward. And bound aegis providing permanent minor resolve and minor protection was a significant defensive buff.

Sorcs entire kit is in a generally great spot right now and I entirely agree that Ward needs an adjustment.

But I just don't think you can ignore a direct skill to skill comparison. And I also don't think dropping the heal and not adding any additional function is the right play either.

Stafford197 · August 28

Remove heal all together, Sorcs were doing just fine, balanced

PvP should go back to how it was pre-Morrowind. Any of those patches were massively more fun compared to now and people used to enjoy that side of the game.

Shields should also go back to their original scaling (0 resists, but cannot be critically struck). Unique builds and playstyles based class is a good thing….. Homogenization of every class and mechanic was always a horrible idea.

Bushido2513 · August 28

katorga wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Assuming the same effective spell power (damage + max resource), my other classes' burst heals are generally the same size as my Sorc's shield+heal value. Seems balanced to me. I play NB most right now, and the tooltip for Offering is within 800 of the combined shield+heal tooltip on my Hardened Ward....same sets on both and roughly the same stats on both toons.

In fact, I kinda expect ZOS to buff Arcanist wards to function the same way, removing the crux mechanic.

Also when a player hits heal at full health that get nothing. A sorc gets 14k of effective health for 6 seconds.

pls....resetting the fight back to 100% is all that matters. How is immaterial. Since some classes can, all classes should be able to.

The main problem with Hardened Ward is that to hit a 14K ward means you have to forego using Tarnished Nightmare

How is important because all classes can reset a flight but the build required to do so would likely sacrifice more than sorc currently has to.

katorga · August 29

Keep Ward how it is, talentless

Bushido2513 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Assuming the same effective spell power (damage + max resource), my other classes' burst heals are generally the same size as my Sorc's shield+heal value. Seems balanced to me. I play NB most right now, and the tooltip for Offering is within 800 of the combined shield+heal tooltip on my Hardened Ward....same sets on both and roughly the same stats on both toons.

In fact, I kinda expect ZOS to buff Arcanist wards to function the same way, removing the crux mechanic.

Also when a player hits heal at full health that get nothing. A sorc gets 14k of effective health for 6 seconds.

pls....resetting the fight back to 100% is all that matters. How is immaterial. Since some classes can, all classes should be able to.

The main problem with Hardened Ward is that to hit a 14K ward means you have to forego using Tarnished Nightmare

How is important because all classes can reset a flight but the build required to do so would likely sacrifice more than sorc currently has to.

None of the classes have to sacrifice anything to heal, it is the core flaw of the combat system. The same stats you use for damage you use for heals. Get to 50% health, hit a button, back to full.

Get to around 8000-9000 effective damage and around 50% crit rate and you are good to go. If you are using proc sets, you will heavily favor stacking damage and health, if you are using hardened ward you will heavily favor stacking max mag and health. Apples vs Oranges. Your heals/wards will be huge either way, and you've made zero tradeoffs with regards to damage.

SkaraMinoc · August 29

Keep Ward how it is, talentless

Hardened Ward feels good on Stam Sorc with 35-40k max health. The shield is only 9-10k and not something you can spam.