Vampire - Undeath rollback to v10.1.0 ZOS

necro_the_crafter

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'd like to point out that at the maximum 15% mitigation, Vampires still take +13%/+20% increased Flame Damage at Stage 3/4. Non-Flame Damage is reduced by the full 15%.

So, relatively speaking, Stage 3 Vampires may take slightly less Flame Damage at the maximum Undeath value than a mortal would, but it's still the quickest way to burn them down.

My point is that Health recovery in not a thing, sustain also is quite easy now, so its not a trade off. WW is at least a choise people make, to make the build aruond skill line, while vampire is just a free mitigation, that realisticly doesnt cost you anything. Which is means that there is no reason you should stay mortal, being vamp is simply better. In fact you quite a bit squishier being mortal.

Some time ago they had prismatic enchats that dealt HUGE damage to vamps, as well as evil hunter and silver shards that had a proc against vamps. In fact Prismatic enchants had a 14-15k tooltip on my sorc back in the day, which made for a viable counter for vamps mitigation. But RN there is little counterplay, as well as meta being so damage heavy that by not running stage 3 vamp you are already putting yourself onto losing side of a battle.

TL;DR Vampire doesnt require nowhere near as mach dedication as WW does, while providing a passive bonuses just for being vamp, again without dedicated build, that cannot be soursed elsewhere.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

The problem with balancing a Vampire is the question of how you balance something that is supposed to be stronger than a non-Vampire without making them unbalanced, lore-wise a Blood Scion could decimate an army of non-Vampires so how do you reflect this in gameplay without making them overpowered?

My solution would be pretty harsh yes, make Vampires weak during daytime but stronger at nighttime, if you seek all that strength, you would have a pretty overwhelming downside, something like a 10% stat reduction in daytime but a 10% stat increase at night.

Perfect Scion could be indirectly buffed doing this, while active for those 20 seconds you will have no weaknesses so would not suffer the penalty in daytime, infact you would get the 10% stat increase at all times.

necro_the_crafter

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with balancing a Vampire is the question of how you balance something that is supposed to be stronger than a non-Vampire without making them unbalanced, lore-wise a Blood Scion could decimate an army of non-Vampires so how do you reflect this in gameplay without making them overpowered?

My solution would be pretty harsh yes, make Vampires weak during daytime but stronger at nighttime, if you seek all that strength, you would have a pretty overwhelming downside, something like a 10% stat reduction in daytime but a 10% stat increase at night.

Perfect Scion could be indirectly buffed doing this, while active for those 20 seconds you will have no weaknesses so would not suffer the penalty in daytime, infact you would get the 10% stat increase at all times.

Yes, and porblem is that people not running vampire to play vampire, they run it for undeath passive most of times. Right now its just a perk to pick up for min-maxing without any concern about vamp playstyle or power fnatasy.

If mitigation is a thing for vamp that cannot be removed, for some reason, I would like to see it made more interactive with being a vampire, like make it a component of blood frenzy - basicly slaping a health cost on undeath. And passive itself made into some form of lifesteal be it direct heal on cooldown or pesentage like ring of pale order, but weaker.

Otherwise, if Undeath has to stay a passive component - than i suggest this blessing system I written down earlier, to give some passive minor buffs as the alternative to undeath, that is uniqe to non-cursed.

Morvan

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Yes, and porblem is that people not running vampire to play vampire, they run it for undeath passive most of times. Right now its just a perk to pick up for min-maxing without any concern about vamp playstyle or power fnatasy.

If mitigation is a thing for vamp that cannot be removed, for some reason, I would like to see it made more interactive with being a vampire, like make it a component of blood frenzy - basicly slaping a health cost on undeath. And passive itself made into some form of lifesteal be it direct heal on cooldown or pesentage like ring of pale order, but weaker.

Otherwise, if Undeath has to stay a passive component - than i suggest this blessing system I written down earlier, to give some passive minor buffs as the alternative to undeath, that is uniqe to non-cursed.

Undeath was originally intended to synergize with the rest of the vampire kit, Eviscerate deals more damage based on how low your HP is, Frenzy lowers your HP and it used to be way stronger if you could keep it up, Undeath is basically there so you can lower your HP more safely to profit from these skills.

The problem with its design is that it's just an universal buff, they made it with the skills in mind but the skills are not required to make it work, thus making people run it for a free mitigation boost. Sustain on PvP is generally good enough that people can easily run stage 3 or 4 without having any cost issues.

They should definitely rework Undeath to something different that procs out of the vampire skills, like Strike from the Shadows with Mist Form.

ForumSavant

The change was great. Just a straight up nerf. It was too strong, now it's fine, might be slightly strong still, but it has plenty of downsides. Good move by ZOS, don't touch it further.

necro_the_crafter

Morvan wrote: »

Undeath was originally intended to synergize with the rest of the vampire kit, Eviscerate deals more damage based on how low your HP is, Frenzy lowers your HP and it used to be way stronger if you could keep it up, Undeath is basically there so you can lower your HP more safely to profit from these skills.

The problem with its design is that it's just an universal buff, they made it with the skills in mind but the skills are not required to make it work, thus making people run it for a free mitigation boost. Sustain on PvP is generally good enough that people can easily run stage 3 or 4 without having any cost issues.

They should definitely rework Undeath to something different that procs out of the vampire skills, like Strike from the Shadows with Mist Form.

Not sure about that. Undeath were present before vamp revamp (pun intended), when it didnt had any health costing skills and instead had drain, mist and bat ulti. Why didnt they changed it to a lifesteal for example, that would also support health costing offensive skills (even better than mitigation) is beyond me. At least they got rid of free recoveries that made being vamp a pve meta, and intead turned it all around with added cost to non vamp abilities. And still is PvP meta, also becuase of single undeath perk, althought nerfed, but still better than being mortal.