This pushing people into PVP is WRONG

Nharimlur_Finor · August 6

edited

kargen27 · August 6

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't personally think that, sorry.

How about supporting that position? Why would that be bad? How does effectively forcing PvP make it better for those who like PvP?

because it inspires players to give PvP a try. I know several players who might have never ventured into PvP land were it not for these events or PvE content that decided they really liked it. PvP is more reliant on players new to the content than PvE is and these events help maintain the population.

FlopsyPrince · August 6

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't personally think that, sorry.

How about supporting that position? Why would that be bad? How does effectively forcing PvP make it better for those who like PvP?

because it inspires players to give PvP a try. I know several players who might have never ventured into PvP land were it not for these events or PvE content that decided they really liked it. PvP is more reliant on players new to the content than PvE is and these events help maintain the population.

Being gank bait is not "trying PvP".

I just zoned into the arena and went to collect the quest on the platform only to die because someone (somehow) nuked the platform. Yeah, that really got me to try PvP, right?

Give other rewards, such as the Pelena's Boxes, to encourage PvP, as they do. Getting nuked before I even realized what was happening was certainly not something that makes me want to keep playing, however much you might have enjoyed being on the other end of that.

Twice now. How is this "fun? Except for the one being the twit on the ground? I couldn't shoot him, but he can nuke me! Gee, that is fun! Not!!!!

ZOS shares part of the blame for this, allowing attacks up when attacks can't go down in the same manner.

FlopsyPrince · August 6

LaintalAy wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

How about supporting that position? Why would that be bad? How does effectively forcing PvP make it better for those who like PvP?

The trick I apply to both endeavors and tickets, is not to aspire to any of the potential rewards. I go and look when I've got some to spend, avoiding all this disappointment, perceived or real.

I used tickets from Zenithar's on Companion skill upgrades and was chastised for that as being 'a waste'. meh.

It's possible that PvP tickets are about getting players to try it. Not sure why they'd want more players in PvP; have they fixed the performance issues? Anyway, I haven't ever been swayed to do it.

The tickets are not required to get people to "try PvP" (which often means "being ganker feed". The boxes can do that just fine, without blocking off the things some of us still need, like the Indriks.

Amottica · August 6

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

the be fair as a pvp player that doesnt enjoy anything else in the game I feel the same way about being forced to do your favorite content as well. now for the tips. play your nightblade and perma cloak your quests

I have absolutely no problem with PvP players getting even more rewards, but the tickets should not be locked behind PvP (or almost effectively so). Give doubled Tel Var and AP by all means, along with extra boxes and such for quests in PvP areas.

I am not sure how allowing those who suck at PvP to stay out of it would lessen what you would get out of the event. Can you clarify that point?

@FlopsyPrince

The same argument can be made about PvE. Tickets should not be locked behind PvE; for most events, they are. Not almost effectively so, but literally are. Give them more drops in PvE instead.

This event is about PvP, which is part of the game. The events do different things throughout the year, mostly in PvE. It is great that the game is well-rounded and that PvP is included with the event cycle, so they are not always forced into repetitive and predictable PvE stuff.

At least there is a PvE means to get some tickets during the PvP event. Speaking from experience, as I was too busy during parts of the Mayhem events two different times, it is easy to do a PvE quest in Cyrodiil to get some tickets. I never saw PvP combat when I went that route. Easy peasy.

SeaGtGruff · August 6

I agree that tickets should be trivial to get, BUT the activities to earn them should be appropriate to the nature of the events. And I think that's already pretty much true.

Are tickets always trivial for everyone to earn? Maybe not, although that's largely a matter of which in-game activities each player considers to be "trivial."

For instance, during the Undaunted event, tickets are earned (IIRC) by completing dungeons and looting the final boss. I think players who do dungeons on a regular basis would find it trivial to earn tickets in that event, although players who aren't able to solo normal dungeons and who don't enjoy grouping with other players might not think that the tickets are trivial to earn.

Players who enjoy playing in Cyrodiil, the Imperial City, and/or Battlegrounds probably find it trivial to earn tickets during the Whitestrake's Mayhem event.

There has never been any promise made that every player will enjoy every type of activity in the game, or be able to complete it (if they're inclined to try), or will enjoy every single event and find it trivial to earn tickets during every event. And the event rewards-- including anything that can be purchased with event tickets-- are not essential items in the game. It's okay to skip events that don't appeal to you, and it won't ruin your ability to play the game "successfully" if you miss out on any rewards.

spartaxoxo · August 6

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

How about supporting that position? Why would that be bad? How does effectively forcing PvP make it better for those who like PvP?

The trick I apply to both endeavors and tickets, is not to aspire to any of the potential rewards. I go and look when I've got some to spend, avoiding all this disappointment, perceived or real.

I used tickets from Zenithar's on Companion skill upgrades and was chastised for that as being 'a waste'. meh.

It's possible that PvP tickets are about getting players to try it. Not sure why they'd want more players in PvP; have they fixed the performance issues? Anyway, I haven't ever been swayed to do it.

The tickets are not required to get people to "try PvP" (which often means "being ganker feed". The boxes can do that just fine, without blocking off the things some of us still need, like the Indriks.

Not everyone is ganker food. Lots of people try it specifically because of the tickets. Some end up liking it, some are neutral, some hate it. Same as every activity in every game

Bammlschwamml · August 6

When i don't enjoy playing a game, then I don't play.

I don't poop on the football field drunk every weekend to show everyone how much I hate the game. I don't pee on the tennis court every time there is a tournament. I don't camp and grill in the middle of golf courses...

And i don't focus on collecting participation trophies and then tell everyone they suck and their games are boring.

I do tend to complain when I enjoy a game and the organizer is doing a bad job.

Am I playing games wrong?

Rohamad_Ali · August 6

Some people are completely anti-pvp and as a pvp'er I understand this. Everything they say they feel sometimes I too am feeling. Only difference is my being a glutton for punishment and the PvE'rs more sane probably.

EdjeSwift · August 6

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

When i don't enjoy playing a game, then I don't play.

I don't poop on the football field drunk every weekend to show everyone how much I hate the game. I don't pee on the tennis court every time there is a tournament. I don't camp and grill in the middle of golf courses...

And i don't focus on collecting participation trophies and then tell everyone they suck and their games are boring.

I do tend to complain when I enjoy a game and the organizer is doing a bad job.

Am I playing games wrong?

I'd say you're doing everything right. People often get stuck in this loop of not wanting to let something go/move on. People who can't quit something and hold on for whatever reason. Days when I find ESO unappealing or boring I just stop playing and do something else. The same with any other game. I've played games for years and when it stops being fun, I just quit, cold turkey. The sunk-cost fallacy is VERY strong in MMOs, you put in all this work and have trouble walking away, but in the end, ESO is going to end, whether it's the servers shutting down or the heat death of the sun, it's going to end one day, but we don't need to stick around if we don't want to.

And I'm no mental health expert or anything of the sort, but for some folks moving on might be the best choice.

JimFord047 · August 6

Well the event is just about over, And I still do not like PVP.

Friends and Wife! Loved the event, they like PVP, I tried to join in, but I was simply put AP fodder! I Tried to understand it, the toon I brought in is now carrying 20 different armours, with evervariation possible, from infused to divines. It was very easy to pick out the PVE players in Cyrodil, Even the ones who had made an effort in the armour. They were a lot easier to kill, just like me!

All in all it was boring! Go to a keep, siege it, get in , die, go all the way back to another keep to respawn (unless there was a tent you could use Once), again and again and again , by the time the fight was over the keep was taken and you were usually on the way back, so missed the keep being taken, but on to the next! And repeat! I did go in as a Tank / Healer same as my PVE, but I still died, only consolation was that it normally took 5-6 to kill me, unless it was a seasoned PVP then they could do it alone.

Being 80% Blind, PVP is just about impossible Visually ,. The Opponent could say, “They never saw it coming!”, and for once they would have been correct. Most of the time with the flashing, I saw Nothing, really , it blew my remaining vision away, respawn , go back, same again….. Really not my thing!

So how I dealt with the event… Daily!

Go into Cyrodil, look at the map, find out who’s in control
Port to imperial city, go up and look at the map , see who is in control
Do this for all the maps.

Get a Scouting daily from the map with the least control
Go to the imperial city where that faction is in complete control, get the daily, and do it , it’s been very quick
Port back to the Total Control Cyrodil Map, and port to where the scouting is to be done, do it, port to imperial city
Hand in the Daily, Port back to Cyrodil and hand in the Daily, done

About 15 minutes in total, give or take. Most of the time NO PVP was required! IN fact in imperial city, the Higher level player I came across, shield up, crouch, and they left me alone to do the daily (appreciated!)

Plus Points
Now got 40+ Rewards for the Worthy to open daily and that’s Focus Scripts that I need (over the next 40+ days)
Got So Many Scouting bags from now and before, its going to take months to open them
I got loads of PVP armours that I did not have, nor will need
And a couple of War Tort Recipes that I will also never use (though I do like how they glow in the wild, a cross between green poison and a mirage , very eye catching)
The toon is now level 10 alliance assault / support, again pointless but tick that off the sticker book

I am now apparently quite an accomplished Bomber, got the Healer Achievements done, and have a couple of thousand Transmute crystal’s Stored away, though Im about out of space everywhere, new toon time I guess

But as I said, not my thing, but hope you all enjoyed the event! But its still Wrong to put people in the position of invading your world to Die

SeaGtGruff · August 6

JimFord047 wrote: »

And a couple of War Tort Recipes that I will also never use (though I do like how they glow in the wild, a cross between green poison and a mirage , very eye catching)

That's awesome! If you aren't planning to ever use them, you should either sell them, or give them to your wife or friends.

JimFord047 · August 6

AS AN ASIDE, the little bug that's up for Grabs in thew store, you need the oblivion generals.

Wife needed them, so we both left the Grey Host campaign, to get her the last boss. she was getting well messed up in there, PVP armour just about useless, the PVE armour that was Surviving in Cyrodil for ME was easy in there, got boss , got bug!

So PVPers find PVE Difficult, and vice versa, basically all down to your setup and Skills.

The NO-CP areas of imperial city and Cyrodil, are as i found actually very easy! without the Armour Procs a lot of PVPers are not very good!!!

So the takeaway here is that its not the players Skill that's good, its their combination of Armours , where as the PVE people actually know how to think ahead (not that there are a few of them in the same boat of needing the armour Procs)

Its still all about fun, or should be!!!

OH DEAR, MY LITTLE ELECTRON TOON HAS TO REGENERATE, is the simple baseline here on both PVP and |PVE

tincanman · August 6

JimFord047 wrote: »

...Go to a keep, siege it, get in , die, go all the way back to another keep to respawn (unless there was a tent you could use Once), again and again and again , by the time the fight was over the keep was taken and you were usually on the way back, so missed the keep being taken, but on to the next! And repeat! I did go in as a Tank / Healer same as my PVE, but I still died, only consolation was that it normally took 5-6 to kill me, unless it was a seasoned PVP then they could do it alone.

Being 80% Blind, PVP is just about impossible Visually ,. The Opponent could say, “They never saw it coming!”, and for once they would have been correct. Most of the time with the flashing, I saw Nothing, really , it blew my remaining vision away, respawn , go back, same again…..

Pretty much sums up most first time experiences.

JimFord047 wrote: »

Really not my thing!

Fair enough.

JimFord047 wrote: »

So how I dealt with the event… Daily!

Go into Cyrodil, look at the map, find out who’s in control
Port to imperial city, go up and look at the map , see who is in control
Do this for all the maps.

Get a Scouting daily from the map with the least control
Go to the imperial city where that faction is in complete control, get the daily, and do it , it’s been very quick
Port back to the Total Control Cyrodil Map, and port to where the scouting is to be done, do it, port to imperial city
Hand in the Daily, Port back to Cyrodil and hand in the Daily, done

About 15 minutes in total, give or take. Most of the time NO PVP was required! IN fact in imperial city, the Higher level player I came across, shield up, crouch, and they left me alone to do the daily (appreciated!)

This is how most predominantly pve players do this event.

JimFord047 wrote: »

...And a couple of War Tort Recipes that I will also never use (though I do like how they glow in the wild, a cross between green poison and a mirage , very eye catching)

While I looked and looked and saw nary a trace of one. Congrats, though.

JimFord047 wrote: »

The toon is now level 10 alliance assault / support

Well played !

JimFord047 · August 6

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

JimFord047 wrote: »

And a couple of War Tort Recipes that I will also never use (though I do like how they glow in the wild, a cross between green poison and a mirage , very eye catching)

That's awesome! If you aren't planning to ever use them, you should either sell them, or give them to your wife or friends.

LOL they already have them, as well as a load of Citrus that I have acquired,

JimFord047 · August 6

OK A couple of What was Very Funny Things.....

Riding along, trying to get to a keep, joined in with another bunch of players riding along , all quite happy! Since I cannot See the text box to see what is happening, i rely on other players , player Stops, I Stop, others start riding back and up to us, Everyone works out I AM RED, THEY ARE BLUE.... time to leave, about face and ride off, no shots fired from ether side lol

Running up to get a resource, Bodies Everywhere, then I see about 12 RED Players, I am Yellow, I pretty much instantly work out, I am DEAD here, so I had a Thought!!! type in /PLAYDEAD . Down I go , they all mount up and ride over me , I get up and take the resource , now that's lucky lol

SeaGtGruff · August 6

JimFord047 wrote: »

OK A couple of What was Very Funny Things.....

Riding along, trying to get to a keep, joined in with another bunch of players riding along , all quite happy! Since I cannot See the text box to see what is happening, i rely on other players , player Stops, I Stop, others start riding back and up to us, Everyone works out I AM RED, THEY ARE BLUE.... time to leave, about face and ride off, no shots fired from ether side lol

Running up to get a resource, Bodies Everywhere, then I see about 12 RED Players, I am Yellow, I pretty much instantly work out, I am DEAD here, so I had a Thought!!! type in /PLAYDEAD . Down I go , they all mount up and ride over me , I get up and take the resource , now that's lucky lol

I love it!

Nharimlur_Finor · August 6

Bammlschwamml wrote: »

I don't poop on the football field drunk every weekend to show everyone how much I hate the game. I don't pee on the tennis court every time there is a tournament. I don't camp and grill in the middle of golf courses...

Yes. Being drunk isn't good.

pklemming · August 6

The most amusing part of them forcing a pvp event is watching the servers struggle with the imposed load on them. If your severs are not up to scratch, don't make more people go do content there.

I totally love trying to climb down a ladder 10 times in IC.... Super fun playing the game of, 'Will I get in to the base this time?'

antihero_kazuma · August 6

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

The no-CP instances are lightly populated, and perfect for just doing one daily to get ticket.

The lightly populated no cp is where the try hards actually lurk. I've ran into them multiple times. I was also attempting to turn in a quest in cyrodiil this morning in Cheydinhal and I put up my shields when an invisible AD nb decides to kill me and a few others that are just trying to turn in a quest. Had to go to a different campaign for the completion. Hey Zos, can't you just create a campaign for pve people that has no PVP aspect just to do/turn in dailies?

JimFord047 · August 6

For me, NOW, it was a Good Event!!!

Hate it as I may, the point was to get the onxy Indrik,

I had pre bought the nacent indrik feathers, and had one already.

Last tickets this morning, and combine 2 lots...

Now I have every cervine, I am happy....

But the wife is in the background Cursing and smashing a keyboard LMAO, She's still in Grey Host lol...up top the wire for her!!!

Four_Fingers · August 6

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't personally think that, sorry.

How about supporting that position? Why would that be bad? How does effectively forcing PvP make it better for those who like PvP?

because it inspires players to give PvP a try. I know several players who might have never ventured into PvP land were it not for these events or PvE content that decided they really liked it. PvP is more reliant on players new to the content than PvE is and these events help maintain the population.

Being gank bait is not "trying PvP".

I just zoned into the arena and went to collect the quest on the platform only to die because someone (somehow) nuked the platform. Yeah, that really got me to try PvP, right?

Give other rewards, such as the Pelena's Boxes, to encourage PvP, as they do. Getting nuked before I even realized what was happening was certainly not something that makes me want to keep playing, however much you might have enjoyed being on the other end of that.

Twice now. How is this "fun? Except for the one being the twit on the ground? I couldn't shoot him, but he can nuke me! Gee, that is fun! Not!!!!

ZOS shares part of the blame for this, allowing attacks up when attacks can't go down in the same manner.

Don't stand in someone's meteor when they drop it on the platform.

Elsonso · August 6

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Don't stand in someone's meteor when they drop it on the platform.

Remind me again why they can drop a meteor on the platform? We are talking The Platform, right? The "safe" area?

spartaxoxo · August 6

Elsonso wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Don't stand in someone's meteor when they drop it on the platform.

Remind me again why they can drop a meteor on the platform? We are talking The Platform, right? The "safe" area?

There's a safe zone on the platform. And you can also stand at the edge of the platform and kill or be killed.

Sluggy · August 6

JimFord047 wrote: »

OK A couple of What was Very Funny Things.....

Riding along, trying to get to a keep, joined in with another bunch of players riding along , all quite happy! Since I cannot See the text box to see what is happening, i rely on other players , player Stops, I Stop, others start riding back and up to us, Everyone works out I AM RED, THEY ARE BLUE.... time to leave, about face and ride off, no shots fired from ether side lol

Running up to get a resource, Bodies Everywhere, then I see about 12 RED Players, I am Yellow, I pretty much instantly work out, I am DEAD here, so I had a Thought!!! type in /PLAYDEAD . Down I go , they all mount up and ride over me , I get up and take the resource , now that's lucky lol

Honestly, THIS is pvp. It's not about winning all of the time or scoring more kills than the other guy. It's about making a good account of yourself and using your human brain to outplay others. Fundamentally, this is exactly what draws people to the activity.

Photosniper89 · August 6

Hey now... they push me into PvE for the other 10+ events each year.

I think you all can handle one event.

pklemming · August 6

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Hey now... they push me into PvE for the other 10+ events each year.

I think you all can handle one event.

Yeah, but ESO is a PVE game that happens to have (very broken) PVP, not the other way around. Well, the PVE is fairly bust too.

CrazyKitty · August 6

SilverBride wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

You're trying to argue that playing house is as equally difficult as building a house. All it takes to play house is an imagination. It takes skill and experience to build a house. The level of difficulty is not even remotely the same.

I am not arguing any such thing. I am saying that no, PvP isn't the true test of skill in ESO as was claimed in this post.

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

PvP is the true test of skill in ESO.

Yes, you are.

Excelling at PvP is the true test of a players skill in ESO. A top tier PvP player can complete any content in the game and is welcome in end game PvE trials. Someone who just furnishes homes can't do anything other than furnish more homes. It takes imagination to do housing in ESO, but it takes zero skill or experience.

I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.

CrazyKitty · August 6

pklemming wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Hey now... they push me into PvE for the other 10+ events each year.

I think you all can handle one event.

Yeah, but ESO is a PVE game that happens to have (very broken) PVP, not the other way around. Well, the PVE is fairly bust too.

ESO was designed and advertised as PvP being the primary end game content. Not the other way around.

SilverBride · August 6

CrazyKitty wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I will never agree that PvP players are more skilled than those that PvE so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Agree or disagree it remains a fact that PvP is the most challenging test of player skill in ESO.

That is an opinion, not a fact. We don't hold the same opinion so let's just leave it at that.