Teabagging update would be good before MYM

JavaRen · July 22

Back on the 18th we were told that @Zos_Kevin would have an update on teabagging policy for us, that sure would be good to have before MYM starts on Thursday.

Photosniper89 · July 22

JavaRen wrote: »

Back on the 18th we were told that @Zos_Kevin would have an update on teabagging policy for us, that sure would be good to have before MYM starts on Thursday.

As someone who gets teabagged alot (its all in good sport) I would love an update to this.

Halo 2 teabagging was an era.

spartaxoxo · July 22

Where did he say there'd be an update? I'm not seeing the thread?

DenverRalphy · July 22

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Where did he say there'd be an update? I'm not seeing the thread?

Last comment of the thread...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662651/teabagging

Araneae6537 · July 22

I don’t know why it should be needed.
1) Just don’t. At best it’s juvenile and unsportsmanlike.
2) Ignore what others do that doesn’t affect your gameplay. Don’t reward the idiots by paying them any attention. Of course truly egregious behavior should be reported, but otherwise, just ignore.

spartaxoxo · July 22

DenverRalphy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Where did he say there'd be an update? I'm not seeing the thread?

Last comment of the thread...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662651/teabagging

Thanks. I didn't see this thread and went looking on Kevin's profile to find it. It's actually a mod that mentions Kevin will be back later with an update. So, you can't find it by looking at the dev tracker or on his profile. I appreciate the link

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I don’t know why it should be needed.
1) Just don’t. At best it’s juvenile and unsportsmanlike.
2) Ignore what others do that doesn’t affect your gameplay. Don’t reward them idiots by paying them any attention. Of course truly egregious behavior should be reported, but otherwise, just ignore.

I agree. The current rule seems fine, to me. The current rule is that it's generally okay unless some type of context made it harassment. Such as if you asked the person to stop, but they just wouldn't leave you alone. Don't see why that would require updating but he's nevertheless looking into it.

Xoelarasizerer · July 22

There's a bajillion mementos/emotes you can use if you are the taunting type already.

Tiny Violin is so my beloved I use it on WBs anyone can dunk on with their eyes closed. If someone thrashes and then teabags me in PvP, I'll more likely assume they have no interesting emotes to stylise with. It isn't 2008 anymore.

Pelanora · July 22

I'd love to see what would happen if someone did it in a football world cup game. Or American football.

'Ohhh but you can ask them to stop, and just don't let it worry you'

🤣🤣🤣

TaSheen · July 22

Pelanora wrote: »

I'd love to see what would happen if someone did it in a football world cup game. Or American football.

'Ohhh but you can ask them to stop, and just don't let it worry you'

🤣🤣🤣

I can foresee a HUGE brawl on either field.... with broken bones....

vsrs_au · July 23

Only last week, a thread on teabagging got locked because it went downhill pretty fast. Just saying.

darvaria · July 23

Idea: Just change the hiding animation to something like a dark cloud.

And eliminate the push up emote.

Araneae6537 · July 23

darvaria wrote: »

Idea: Just change the hiding animation to something like a dark cloud.

And eliminate the push up emote.

No, we shouldn’t have things taken away just because some people are idiots.

Photosniper89 · July 23

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I don’t know why it should be needed.
1) Just don’t. At best it’s juvenile and unsportsmanlike.
2) Ignore what others do that doesn’t affect your gameplay. Don’t reward the idiots by paying them any attention. Of course truly egregious behavior should be reported, but otherwise, just ignore.

orrrrrrrrrr we can allow tea bagging since that has been the history of every game ever.

SeaUnicorn · July 23

/playglassharmonica instead. problem solved.

Amottica · July 23

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I don’t know why it should be needed.
1) Just don’t. At best it’s juvenile and unsportsmanlike.
2) Ignore what others do that doesn’t affect your gameplay. Don’t reward the idiots by paying them any attention. Of course truly egregious behavior should be reported, but otherwise, just ignore.

orrrrrrrrrr we can allow tea bagging since that has been the history of every game ever.

But this is ESO and Zenimax has taken a different approach. Granted, they treat t-bagging after being asked not to as a low-level issue so it would only hamper those who tend to be a problem child. At least from what I have read coming from the big Z.

virtus753 · July 23

Amottica wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I don’t know why it should be needed.
1) Just don’t. At best it’s juvenile and unsportsmanlike.
2) Ignore what others do that doesn’t affect your gameplay. Don’t reward the idiots by paying them any attention. Of course truly egregious behavior should be reported, but otherwise, just ignore.

orrrrrrrrrr we can allow tea bagging since that has been the history of every game ever.

But this is ESO and Zenimax has taken a different approach. Granted, they treat t-bagging after being asked not to as a low-level issue so it would only hamper those who tend to be a problem child. At least from what I have read coming from the big Z.

And ZOS's policy is actually not all that different from some other companies. Several games outright ban teabagging as part of their code of conduct and/or have publicly taken action on it. A quick Google search shows instances of outright bans in other games date as far back as at least 2017, and I didn't have to scroll far for that. More recently Riot has had a couple of headline-making instances where they've made it clear it doesn't get a free pass. Odd that all that got ignored in the post you quoted.

Yudo · July 23

Xoelarasizerer wrote: »

There's a bajillion mementos/emotes you can use if you are the taunting type already.

Tiny Violin is so my beloved I use it on WBs anyone can dunk on with their eyes closed. If someone thrashes and then teabags me in PvP, I'll more likely assume they have no interesting emotes to stylise with. It isn't 2008 anymore.

Thought of this too but most do not seem to work while in combat..

EF321 · July 23

Photosniper89 wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I don’t know why it should be needed.
1) Just don’t. At best it’s juvenile and unsportsmanlike.
2) Ignore what others do that doesn’t affect your gameplay. Don’t reward the idiots by paying them any attention. Of course truly egregious behavior should be reported, but otherwise, just ignore.

orrrrrrrrrr we can allow tea bagging since that has been the history of every game ever.

"Just let me harass anyone with no consequences"

Ardriel · July 23

I don't understand how you can get so upset about something that a computer-generated pixel figure does to your own computer-generated pixel figure... It's not really happening to you. You should ignore it. Getting upset only encourages these kiddies even more.

lardvader · July 23

Silly thing to do but worse to police it. I'll take any bags to the face when I pvp.

On a side note, it's ok to bag your friends inside dungeons if you're the tank

Sluggy · July 23

Pelanora wrote: »

I'd love to see what would happen if someone did it in a football world cup game. Or American football.

'Ohhh but you can ask them to stop, and just don't let it worry you'

🤣🤣🤣

Different in this case since it would involve actual physical contact in the real world with real bodies.

TybaltKaine · July 23

Just use the literal tea bag emote I guess? I'm not sure what we're talking about here.

xylena_lazarow · July 23

Players just want to know whether bagging officially violates TOS or not. Shouldn't be this hard to answer.

TybaltKaine · July 23

I mean, they put a "Teatime" emote in the game with Morrowind. I'm guessing it's not an issue, but I don't know.

spartaxoxo · July 23

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Players just want to know whether bagging officially violates TOS or not. Shouldn't be this hard to answer.

The official rule is that depends on the circumstances, like other communication issues. I think it should be hard to answer if players want it changed into something more concrete. That's not the sort of policy change that should be rushed. I don't even think this should be entertained, quite frankly. I don't understand why it was. It's like banning the word "stupid" outright. Rather than going, "well it depends on how it's used."

Here's the current official reply

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with many things in-game, context is very important. The act of standing and squatting over another NPC or character to teabag them can be considered a form of harassment which can be a violation of the Terms of Service (ToS). As with all forms of harassment, if a player asks you to stop a behavior, you need to stop. If you continue to teabag someone that asks you to stop, that is a violation of the ToS and may lead to your account being suspended or even permanently banned. Hope this helps clear things up

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6962775#Comment_6962775

And here's unofficial reply that a user got from her on social media. She posted the official reply after, and in the same thread, the user posted this. Obviously, a message to someone on discord isn't an actually official reply, which is why she made it official with a real reply in that thread later. But, I think it does add useful context to the above post. So, I included it in this post after the official answer.

"BohnT2 wrote: »

I have talked to Gina and here's their official statement on the new CoC and PvP

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6961878#Comment_6961878

LikaShade · July 23

People are too sensitive, it happens in every game that has a crouch button as an immature way to taunt enemies, and it says more about the teabagger than the teabagged.

How would they get over teabagging in Conan Exiles for example, where you can literally see the other person's junk?

xylena_lazarow · July 23

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The official rule is that depends on the circumstances

That's the whole problem, "it depends" isn't a rule, it's arbitrary and there's no court of law to argue. A lot of the guys bagging are hiding in offline mode so it's not like you can even tell them to stop, making Gina's posts seem toothless. Other players don't want to be arbitrarily banned for bagging their friend as a harmless in-joke. Either it's allowed, or it isn't.

spartaxoxo · July 23

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The official rule is that depends on the circumstances

That's the whole problem, "it depends" isn't a rule, it's arbitrary and there's no court of law to argue. A lot of the guys bagging are hiding in offline mode so it's not like you can even tell them to stop, making Gina's posts seem toothless. Other players don't want to be arbitrarily banned for bagging their friend as a harmless in-joke. Either it's allowed, or it isn't.

It's really not that arbitrary. Context is an important part of human communication. And communication that needs to be moderated should be narrowly tailored so as not to ban people unjustly, while still not making it okay to harass other customers. The rule as it exists gives ZOS the flexibility to allow someone to tea bag their friends as an in-joke between friends, while simultaneously disallowing someone from following another person around for hours, farming and bagging them constantly.

I don't see why friends having innocent fun should be banned because there's some authoritarian rule that says that it's never okay.

And I don't see why someone should be allowed to follow and harass another user so much that they quit the game mode, or perhaps the game itself, either.

An overly broad, authoritarian ruling would make either of those unfair outcomes the norm. The current ruling allows them to look at existing harassment criteria (asking someone to stop is just one aspect and not always necessary), and apply those standards to the action, to determine if it meets those criteria. And if it does meet the criteria for harassment, act accordingly.

EF321 · July 23

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The official rule is that depends on the circumstances

That's the whole problem, "it depends" isn't a rule, it's arbitrary and there's no court of law to argue. A lot of the guys bagging are hiding in offline mode so it's not like you can even tell them to stop, making Gina's posts seem toothless. Other players don't want to be arbitrarily banned for bagging their friend as a harmless in-joke. Either it's allowed, or it isn't.

From support ticket:

Start by asking the other player to STOP the behavior that you find offensive or harassing, even if the other player has you blocked.

ToRelax · July 23

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The official rule is that depends on the circumstances

That's the whole problem, "it depends" isn't a rule, it's arbitrary and there's no court of law to argue. A lot of the guys bagging are hiding in offline mode so it's not like you can even tell them to stop, making Gina's posts seem toothless. Other players don't want to be arbitrarily banned for bagging their friend as a harmless in-joke. Either it's allowed, or it isn't.

[...]

I don't see why friends having innocent fun should be banned because there's some authoritarian rule that says that it's never okay.

And I don't see why someone should be allowed to follow and harass another user so much that they quit the game mode, or perhaps the game itself, either.

An overly broad, authoritarian ruling would make either of those unfair outcomes the norm. The current ruling allows them to look at existing harassment criteria (asking someone to stop is just one aspect and not always necessary), and apply those standards to the action, to determine if it meets those criteria. And if it does meet the criteria for harassment, act accordingly.

Currently there is nothing at all to be done about harassment; worse, players open themselves up to more if they try anyway. That's not okay.

whitecrow · July 23

This is such a bizarre thing to be obsessed about.