“Beacon of Oblivion” lacks identity.

Theist_VII · July 20

I’m going to preface this by making it quite clear what my bias is… I love playing a summoner in RPGs. Even though summons are a mess in ESO and are in desperate need of standardization and customization, I have always tried to make them work in all forms of content.

Needless to say, I was rather excited leading up to the announcement of the Daedric Summoning class set, and then I made the mistake of believing that it could actually have a place in this game. Here’s what we got…

While we keep our summons up, we get negligible stats, and when they die, or better yet when we don’t even use them we get PvE damage?…

What?
Who is this for?

This is the Daedric Summoning class set… why is it rewarding us for not having a Daedric Summon? And exclusively primarily for PvE?

Edit; As of week 3 of PTS, the following change was made to Beacon of Oblivion.

While I appreciate the gesture, it’s very half-hearted. We get 5% values for both damage and healing when using Battle Spirit? What is anyone going to do with that? Not to mention, the benefits with a pet active are still nowhere near comparative to modern sets.

Joy_Division · July 20

Kind of get the feeling this was rushed to meet a deadline.

Pelanora · July 20

Really have to proofread what chatgpt spits out before you print it

Theist_VII · July 20

Pelanora wrote: »

Really have to proofread what chatgpt spits out before you print it

Honestly. There’s no way a human being thought this one up and said, “this is fine.”

Theist_VII · July 20

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kind of get the feeling this was rushed to meet a deadline.

Rushed is an understatement.

1840 Health and 1980 Armor if you’re using a Daedric Summon, then damage and healing if you’re not.

Your pets do the body blocking, so it would make sense if this was reversed and lost the “damage to monsters” allowing the set to be used everywhere.

If your pets are alive, you should do more damage so that you can keep players off of them and then the increased healing would make sense in keeping them alive.

When your Twilight is dead, then you need the armor, not when it’s alive. Such a backwards design.

Dagoth_Rac · July 20

There have been complaints for years that sorc builds are "pets or go home" in endgame PvE. That you can't run as a lightning wizard type of build. You have to be a summoner or you are holding back your group. So this class set look designed to make sorc DPS more viable if you are not running pets. It seems to synergize with the recent Expert Summoner passive change that gives you more max health with pets and more max magicka/stamina if not using pets.

Theist_VII · July 20

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

There have been complaints for years that sorc builds are "pets or go home" in endgame PvE. That you can't run as a lightning wizard type of build. You have to be a summoner or you are holding back your group. So this class set look designed to make sorc DPS more viable if you are not running pets. It seems to synergize with the recent Expert Summoner passive change that gives you more max health with pets and more max magicka/stamina if not using pets.

You would expect the Storm Calling set to make a “lightning wizard type of build” possible.

Not the Daedric Summoning set.

While it makes sense to give more access to the passives, there is no argument to be made that the Summoning set should provide worse functionality with a summon than without… or even anything to players that opt-out.

Turtle_Bot · July 20

I gave feedback on the official thread, am still yet to get a reply from ZOS that they have even seen that feedback, let alone discussing the contents of the feedback.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662086/pts-update-43-feedback-thread-for-class-sets/p1
My feedback is post number 19 on the first page (I don't know how to link the specific post).

TL//DR: of my feedback was that it seems like the 2 sets were designed for the other skill lines, but they did a quick switcheroo because non-pet sorc was in such a horrendously bad state at the time.

Monolith of Storms summons things when dealing specific damage with storm calling abilities. This set seems like it was designed to work with the daedric summoning line even down to the proc condition (initial hit or every 5th tick) which would make sense with the pets as they on both bars and are up all the time unless they are dead, as such every 5 ticks will always be live. The pets also being slotted on both bars is good here too since it enables the set to be ran on on the front bar (where it wants to be slotted) and not create these awkward/clunky rotations where you're trying to use back bar abilities to keep a front bar set working.

Meanwhile, Beacon of Oblivion provides raw stats for a build, something that synergizes very well with the Storm Calling line that also provides stats via buffs such as resolve, brutality/sorcery, expedition and healing via crit surge. It seems like Beacon of Oblivion was supposed to be the Storm Calling set, where it acts more like the first DK set where the buffs it grants depend on which bar you are on (front bar grants damage and healing, back bar grants bonus health and armor).

Both of these sets being swapped would still leave them as boring generic proc/generic stat sets, but at least they would actually make sense and work with their respective skill lines.

IMO, both class sets need a complete redesign from the ground up.

I put forward the following idea in my feedback to rework the 2 sets, it would be a huge redesign of both sets, so unfortunately I don't see ZOS ever doing it, but it would make for some awesome class sets that are actually good compared to what sorc has been given so far and at the bare minimum the sets would be thematic with their respective skill lines:

Monolith of Storms should be all about lightning magic (not summons) similar to what was designed for the non-pet part of the scribing class script for sorcerer. Let the design of the set reflect this, where instead of summoning things, make the wearer become the monolith where lightning strikes out at enemies to deal shock damage. Let the 2-4 piece bonuses reflect the utility of the skills within this line via crit chance, armor, penetration and speed (to represent crit surge and lightning form, the utility skills of that line).

Monolith of Storms:
- (2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
- (3 items) Adds 1487 Armor
- (4 items) Adds 1486 Offensive Penetration
- (5 items) Dealing damage with a Storm Calling Ability applies "Herald of the Storm" to you for 7 seconds. While Herald of the Storm is active, dealing direct shock damage has a 50% chance to deal 680 Shock damage around you and the target, scaling off of the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage and grants you a stack of Storm Wind for 4 seconds (max 5 stacks). Each stack of Storm Wind increases your movement speed by 1%. The shock damage from this set can only occur once every 1 second.
  After Herald of the Storm ends, you cannot gain this effect for 8 seconds.

This set is designed to allow the wearer to become a true beacon for the storm they are calling forth. This set focuses around the lightning theme of the Storm Calling skill line and ties in with the shock damage, mobility and armor that the active skills in this line are trying to do.

Beacon of Oblivion should be all about the pets and summoning magic that the daedric summoning skill line is based around. Have the set summon additional pets and/or buff the classes existing pets.

Beacon of Oblivion:
- (2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
- (3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
- (4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
- (5 items) Increases the damage your pets deal by 2%
- (5 items) When you activate a non-ultimate Daedric Summoning ability, Summon an Atronach to your side for 12 seconds. The Atronach attacks all nearby enemies dealing 478 physical or shock damage every 2 seconds and increases the damage your pets deal to enemies it hits by 8%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and the damage and type of Atronach scales off the higher of your max magicka or stamina (Storm Atronach that deals shock damage if max magicka is higher, Air Atronach that deals physical damage if max stamina is higher).

This set is designed to have the wearer more closely reflect their ties to oblivion by summoning additional daedra and buffing their summoned daedra even further.

If you really want to include non-pet sorcs with this set, then having a single line as part of the 5th piece of the set such as the following would help allow non-pet sorcs to use their best PvE ultimate without losing their buffs/damage when doing so:

(5 items) If you do not have a non-ultimate pet active, Summon Storm Atronach and its morphs do not count as "Active Pets" when summoned.

Lystrad · July 20

As someone who plays their sorc petless almost exclusively, I don't think the daedric summoning set should benefit me at all. It doesn't need to. It's not meant to be for me. Let the summoners have their fun set. Having the set for the summoning line actively encourage you not to summon would be like if the herald of the tome set for arcanist gave you a massive damage bonus while at 0 crux, it's just counter intuitive.

If they want a set to benefit petless sorcs they should overhaul the functionality of monolith so pet sorcs can have beacon and petless can have monolith.

Personally the change I would make to beacon is to have it give you a buff based on the number of pets you have summoned, and to have daedric prey/haunting curse summon in temporary pets whenever it deals damage with 2 spawning in on a crit.

Then for monolith I would change it so that whenever you trigger the concussed status you gain a static charge, and at 3 charges your next mage's fury or lightning splash, or bolt escape would be modified. Fury triggers it's execute damage regardless of the targets health, splash deals a burst of damage up front, bolt escape fires off a cone of lightning in front of you that stuns all enemies without moving you (or maybe can be reactivated once for free to send you back to your starting point?)

Zyaneth_Bal · July 20

I agree that the set does lack identity.

On top of that 15% bonus is certainly not enough to compensate giving up pets because the damage lost is way more, atronach alone gives 10% damage and not only to caster but to whole group, not to mention that pets themselves do a big part of overall damage.

I realize that this set is supposed to support a playstyle without pets but that doesn’t mean it should be purposefully made useless with pets because stats it provides right now are absolutely negligible and there are non-conditional sets that give same stats but much more abundantly.

It is kind of better than the monolith of storms as that one is useless due to atrocious proc placement and hitboxes while only potentially doing mediocre damage. But it still misses the mark yet again.

Zyaneth_Bal · July 20

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I gave feedback on the official thread, am still yet to get a reply from ZOS that they have even seen that feedback, let alone discussing the contents of the feedback.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662086/pts-update-43-feedback-thread-for-class-sets/p1
My feedback is post number 19 on the first page (I don't know how to link the specific post).

TL//DR: of my feedback was that it seems like the 2 sets were designed for the other skill lines, but they did a quick switcheroo because non-pet sorc was in such a horrendously bad state at the time.
Monolith of Storms summons things when dealing specific damage with storm calling abilities. This set seems like it was designed to work with the daedric summoning line even down to the proc condition (initial hit or every 5th tick) which would make sense with the pets as they on both bars and are up all the time unless they are dead, as such every 5 ticks will always be live. The pets also being slotted on both bars is good here too since it enables the set to be ran on on the front bar (where it wants to be slotted) and not create these awkward/clunky rotations where you're trying to use back bar abilities to keep a front bar set working.

Meanwhile, Beacon of Oblivion provides raw stats for a build, something that synergizes very well with the Storm Calling line that also provides stats via buffs such as resolve, brutality/sorcery, expedition and healing via crit surge. It seems like Beacon of Oblivion was supposed to be the Storm Calling set, where it acts more like the first DK set where the buffs it grants depend on which bar you are on (front bar grants damage and healing, back bar grants bonus health and armor).

Both of these sets being swapped would still leave them as boring generic proc/generic stat sets, but at least they would actually make sense and work with their respective skill lines.

IMO, both class sets need a complete redesign from the ground up.

I put forward the following idea in my feedback to rework the 2 sets, it would be a huge redesign of both sets, so unfortunately I don't see ZOS ever doing it, but it would make for some awesome class sets that are actually good compared to what sorc has been given so far and at the bare minimum the sets would be thematic with their respective skill lines:
Monolith of Storms should be all about lightning magic (not summons) similar to what was designed for the non-pet part of the scribing class script for sorcerer. Let the design of the set reflect this, where instead of summoning things, make the wearer become the monolith where lightning strikes out at enemies to deal shock damage. Let the 2-4 piece bonuses reflect the utility of the skills within this line via crit chance, armor, penetration and speed (to represent crit surge and lightning form, the utility skills of that line).

Monolith of Storms:
(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance

(3 items) Adds 1487 Armor

(4 items) Adds 1486 Offensive Penetration

(5 items) Dealing damage with a Storm Calling Ability applies "Herald of the Storm" to you for 7 seconds. While Herald of the Storm is active, dealing direct shock damage has a 50% chance to deal 680 Shock damage around you and the target, scaling off of the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage and grants you a stack of Storm Wind for 4 seconds (max 5 stacks). Each stack of Storm Wind increases your movement speed by 1%. The shock damage from this set can only occur once every 1 second.
After Herald of the Storm ends, you cannot gain this effect for 8 seconds.

This set is designed to allow the wearer to become a true beacon for the storm they are calling forth. This set focuses around the lightning theme of the Storm Calling skill line and ties in with the shock damage, mobility and armor that the active skills in this line are trying to do.

Beacon of Oblivion should be all about the pets and summoning magic that the daedric summoning skill line is based around. Have the set summon additional pets and/or buff the classes existing pets.

Beacon of Oblivion:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka

(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka

(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health

(5 items) Increases the damage your pets deal by 2%

(5 items) When you activate a non-ultimate Daedric Summoning ability, Summon an Atronach to your side for 12 seconds. The Atronach attacks all nearby enemies dealing 478 physical or shock damage every 2 seconds and increases the damage your pets deal to enemies it hits by 8%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and the damage and type of Atronach scales off the higher of your max magicka or stamina (Storm Atronach that deals shock damage if max magicka is higher, Air Atronach that deals physical damage if max stamina is higher).

This set is designed to have the wearer more closely reflect their ties to oblivion by summoning additional daedra and buffing their summoned daedra even further.

If you really want to include non-pet sorcs with this set, then having a single line as part of the 5th piece of the set such as the following would help allow non-pet sorcs to use their best PvE ultimate without losing their buffs/damage when doing so:

(5 items) If you do not have a non-ultimate pet active, Summon Storm Atronach and its morphs do not count as "Active Pets" when summoned.

At the very least these look far more interesting and engaging than actual class sets.

Yudo · July 20

Practical use case for this set is not clear to me. Feels like it wants to be a defensive set in favor of pet builds, that would get some temporary bonus when pet is down, until you get your pet up again. But the temporary bonus is competing over the pet bonus...Or just use as a flat 15% damage or heal buff set, but then with defensive stat lines and no way of activating the pet bonus?

Would consider fitting this into some builds if the damage bonus was not monster exclusive...even if a fraction of the full 15% in pvp. Otherwise another skip for me.

xylena_lazarow · July 20

Splitting the mechanics of pet and nonpet Sorc builds is horrendous design that is only going to further unbalance things the two archetypes every time one of them gets a big buff or nerf, if they want to satisfy the crowd that demands "permanent targetable RP pets" so badly then add a proper summoner class and stop mutilating Sorceror.

Theist_VII · July 20

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I gave feedback on the official thread, am still yet to get a reply from ZOS that they have even seen that feedback, let alone discussing the contents of the feedback.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/662086/pts-update-43-feedback-thread-for-class-sets/p1
My feedback is post number 19 on the first page (I don't know how to link the specific post).

TL//DR: of my feedback was that it seems like the 2 sets were designed for the other skill lines, but they did a quick switcheroo because non-pet sorc was in such a horrendously bad state at the time.
Monolith of Storms summons things when dealing specific damage with storm calling abilities. This set seems like it was designed to work with the daedric summoning line even down to the proc condition (initial hit or every 5th tick) which would make sense with the pets as they on both bars and are up all the time unless they are dead, as such every 5 ticks will always be live. The pets also being slotted on both bars is good here too since it enables the set to be ran on on the front bar (where it wants to be slotted) and not create these awkward/clunky rotations where you're trying to use back bar abilities to keep a front bar set working.

Meanwhile, Beacon of Oblivion provides raw stats for a build, something that synergizes very well with the Storm Calling line that also provides stats via buffs such as resolve, brutality/sorcery, expedition and healing via crit surge. It seems like Beacon of Oblivion was supposed to be the Storm Calling set, where it acts more like the first DK set where the buffs it grants depend on which bar you are on (front bar grants damage and healing, back bar grants bonus health and armor).

Both of these sets being swapped would still leave them as boring generic proc/generic stat sets, but at least they would actually make sense and work with their respective skill lines.

IMO, both class sets need a complete redesign from the ground up.

I put forward the following idea in my feedback to rework the 2 sets, it would be a huge redesign of both sets, so unfortunately I don't see ZOS ever doing it, but it would make for some awesome class sets that are actually good compared to what sorc has been given so far and at the bare minimum the sets would be thematic with their respective skill lines:
Monolith of Storms should be all about lightning magic (not summons) similar to what was designed for the non-pet part of the scribing class script for sorcerer. Let the design of the set reflect this, where instead of summoning things, make the wearer become the monolith where lightning strikes out at enemies to deal shock damage. Let the 2-4 piece bonuses reflect the utility of the skills within this line via crit chance, armor, penetration and speed (to represent crit surge and lightning form, the utility skills of that line).

Monolith of Storms:
(2 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance

(3 items) Adds 1487 Armor

(4 items) Adds 1486 Offensive Penetration

(5 items) Dealing damage with a Storm Calling Ability applies "Herald of the Storm" to you for 7 seconds. While Herald of the Storm is active, dealing direct shock damage has a 50% chance to deal 680 Shock damage around you and the target, scaling off of the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage and grants you a stack of Storm Wind for 4 seconds (max 5 stacks). Each stack of Storm Wind increases your movement speed by 1%. The shock damage from this set can only occur once every 1 second.
After Herald of the Storm ends, you cannot gain this effect for 8 seconds.

This set is designed to allow the wearer to become a true beacon for the storm they are calling forth. This set focuses around the lightning theme of the Storm Calling skill line and ties in with the shock damage, mobility and armor that the active skills in this line are trying to do.

Beacon of Oblivion should be all about the pets and summoning magic that the daedric summoning skill line is based around. Have the set summon additional pets and/or buff the classes existing pets.

Beacon of Oblivion:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka

(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka

(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health

(5 items) Increases the damage your pets deal by 2%

(5 items) When you activate a non-ultimate Daedric Summoning ability, Summon an Atronach to your side for 12 seconds. The Atronach attacks all nearby enemies dealing 478 physical or shock damage every 2 seconds and increases the damage your pets deal to enemies it hits by 8%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and the damage and type of Atronach scales off the higher of your max magicka or stamina (Storm Atronach that deals shock damage if max magicka is higher, Air Atronach that deals physical damage if max stamina is higher).

This set is designed to have the wearer more closely reflect their ties to oblivion by summoning additional daedra and buffing their summoned daedra even further.

If you really want to include non-pet sorcs with this set, then having a single line as part of the 5th piece of the set such as the following would help allow non-pet sorcs to use their best PvE ultimate without losing their buffs/damage when doing so:

(5 items) If you do not have a non-ultimate pet active, Summon Storm Atronach and its morphs do not count as "Active Pets" when summoned.

I saw your feedback and gave it an agree, @Turtle_Bot. If this was baseball, we’d be nearing three strikes for Sorcerer. If this set goes live like this, there will continue to be no reason to enter Infinite Archive on our class.

Both class sets are horrible, and as a result, we’re now in a position where ZOS is trying to make the Summoner set do what the Storm Calling set failed to.

Honestly I’m in agreement with @xylena_lazarow at this point, there are three paths that ZOS need to choose between…

Accept the fact that Daedric Summoning and pets are and have been since launch, a core staple to Sorcerer and make them easier to use without having to entirely build into them. (one bar solutions)
Detach them all and add them as Scribing skills that all classes can customize and use.
Make an entirely new Summoner class, rework the Daedric Summoning skill line into something else entirely while adding class change tokens.

Wuuffyy · July 21

Theist_VII wrote: »

I’m going to preface this by making it quite clear what my bias is… I love playing a summoner in RPGs. Even though summons are a mess in ESO and are in desperate need of standardization and customization, I have always tried to make them work in all forms of content.

Needless to say, I was rather excited leading up to the announcement of the Daedric Summoning class set, and then I made the mistake of believing that it could actually have a place in this game. Here’s what we got…

While we keep our summons up, we get negligible stats, and when they die, or better yet when we don’t even use them we get PvE damage?…

What?
Who is this for?

This is the Daedric Summoning class set… why is it rewarding us for not having a Daedric Summon? And exclusively for PvE?

This set is laughably weak. The values are far too low for effectivity especially when you take into consideration the viability of pets in any serious, no rp'ing PvP content.

ESO_Nightingale · July 21

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

I’m going to preface this by making it quite clear what my bias is… I love playing a summoner in RPGs. Even though summons are a mess in ESO and are in desperate need of standardization and customization, I have always tried to make them work in all forms of content.

Needless to say, I was rather excited leading up to the announcement of the Daedric Summoning class set, and then I made the mistake of believing that it could actually have a place in this game. Here’s what we got…

While we keep our summons up, we get negligible stats, and when they die, or better yet when we don’t even use them we get PvE damage?…

What?
Who is this for?

This is the Daedric Summoning class set… why is it rewarding us for not having a Daedric Summon? And exclusively for PvE?

This set is laughably weak. The values are far too low for effectivity especially when you take into consideration the viability of pets in any serious, no rp'ing PvP content.

I'm gonna have to agree. It's 2-4 piece bonuses severely hurt it.

RaptorRodeoGod · July 21

The identity of this set feels pretty mid, but the effect when not running pets feels strong\effective for me personally

Ezhh · July 21

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I gave feedback on the official thread, am still yet to get a reply from ZOS that they have even seen that feedback, let alone discussing the contents of the feedback.

Bolded for emphasis. I think this is the saddest part of it all. As a sorc main I want to be excited by class sets, not left wondering what the use case for them is meant to be. Some communication from ZOS would be very welcome on this around about now.

Savagejack · July 21

I hope they change the pet system entirely. It would be interesting if Daedric summons functioned similar to Necro. Non-target damage source for a duration. It would make the Rebate passive make sense due to a re-summoning nature. Perhaps change their morphs to give you the skill that the demon once provided? I just hope they stop this design of gaining or losing stats dependent on if you have a pet active or not. It is not enjoyable

Theist_VII · July 21

Savagejack wrote: »

I hope they change the pet system entirely. It would be interesting if Daedric summons functioned similar to Necro. Non-target damage source for a duration. It would make the Rebate passive make sense due to a re-summoning nature. Perhaps change their morphs to give you the skill that the demon once provided? I just hope they stop this design of gaining or losing stats dependent on if you have a pet active or not. It is not enjoyable

This is my opinion...

If anything, all pets should be targetable, they should all have health bars, and they should all be one-bar with a 30-60 second timer. If pets were no longer targetable, they would be just another DoT. The day that Skeletal Mage and Shade could body block, would be the day we would actually see them in PvP.

While I agree with the last half of what you wrote in regards to moving away from this either/or system that ZOS is doing with the most recent Daedric Summoning changes, the idea that pets should lose functionality instead of gaining parity across the board is one I can’t get behind, and isn’t really the idea of this thread.

Major_Toughness · July 22

Pet builds already best damage, so it gives you some survivability. Because it's mostly noobs who play pet builds anyway, sorry.

Good buff to non-pet builds which are severely lacking DPS is PvE.

You can get Major Berserk from other sources so loss of Atronach - which also isn't 100% uptime - isn't a flat damage loss. And it's trying to boost your other damage to be competitive without the winged pest and monkey cluttering everyone's screen.

Theist_VII · July 22

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Pet builds already best damage, so it gives you some survivability. Because it's mostly noobs who play pet builds anyway, sorry.

Good buff to non-pet builds which are severely lacking DPS is PvE.

You can get Major Berserk from other sources so loss of Atronach - which also isn't 100% uptime - isn't a flat damage loss. And it's trying to boost your other damage to be competitive without the winged pest and monkey cluttering everyone's screen.

What did I just read?

You’re saying that our Daedric Summoning set shouldn’t do anything meaningful with our Daedric Summons because “it’s mostly noobs who play pet builds anyway”?

In PvP, pet builds require the most skill. You have to know how and when to strategically recall and command your pets to attack different targets and to LoS, all while keeping them alive, and knowing when to resummon them without getting blown up.

In regards to PvE…

Mad about having to use Daedric Summons to parse high on a class with a skill line called Daedric Summoning? Change your class. You don’t hear of this problem anywhere else, the best damage requires complete use of your kit, on every class.

You can’t just avoid Ardent Flame, or Dawn’s Wrath because you don’t like the color red and expect good damage, people would laugh at you.

Major_Toughness · July 22

Theist_VII wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Pet builds already best damage, so it gives you some survivability. Because it's mostly noobs who play pet builds anyway, sorry.

Good buff to non-pet builds which are severely lacking DPS is PvE.

You can get Major Berserk from other sources so loss of Atronach - which also isn't 100% uptime - isn't a flat damage loss. And it's trying to boost your other damage to be competitive without the winged pest and monkey cluttering everyone's screen.

What did I just read?

You’re saying that our Daedric Summoning set shouldn’t do anything meaningful with our Daedric Summons because “it’s mostly noobs who play pet builds anyway”?

In PvP, pet builds require the most skill. You have to know how and when to strategically recall and command your pets to attack different targets and to LoS, all while keeping them alive, and knowing when to resummon them without getting blown up.

In regards to PvE…

Mad about having to use Daedric Summons to parse high on a class with a skill line called Daedric Summoning? Change your class. You don’t hear of this problem anywhere else, the best damage requires complete use of your kit, on every class.

You can’t just avoid Ardent Flame, or Dawn’s Wrath because you don’t like the color red and expect good damage, people would laugh at you.

I mean yeah if you are using a pet build in PvP you would have to be good because it would be a *** terrible build. Heal flappy bird is good for healers, but sorc on it's own doesn't need it for healing.

I would agree, should this set be in Daedric Summoning? Not really. But the set itself is fine.

It is also clear that ZoS know about the general dislike of relying on pets. Hence the change in Update 41.

Moving on, our primary focus for class adjustments this update was on the Sorcerer class, where we’ve seen a sizable amount of feedback over the years on how the class feels significantly weaker when not using pets, as well as lacking many support options for group interaction. To remedy this, we’ve reworked a handful of morphs, passives, and tweaked a few numbers on abilities.

Did you feedback to ZoS that if people don't like pets they should pick a new class during this PTS cycle?

I could always misuse the phrase "play how you want" to justify wanting non-pet sorc to be improved. That seems to be a forum favourite.

MashmalloMan · July 22

They removed the "monster" requirement and nerfed it down to 5% damage/healing when in pvp.

Still a boring set to me. 5% damage/healing in pvp is pretty mid too, would have been fair at around 6-8% imo.

The tank part of the set is the same, not even better than something like Fortified Brass when you add up the stat density since 129 damage for a tank is useless.

Idk, I guess I wanted a bit more flash and style.

BasP · July 22

Theist_VII wrote: »

In regards to PvE…

Mad about having to use Daedric Summons to parse high on a class with a skill line called Daedric Summoning? Change your class. You don’t hear of this problem anywhere else, the best damage requires complete use of your kit, on every class.

But is that really the case for a Sorcerer at the moment? Let's take this 150K Parse for example. It doesn't use a single Storm Calling skill and only one Dark Magic skill, so it doesn't make complete use of its kit. Seven slots are used by Daedric Summoning skills however.

I'd personally like it if, for example, a player that instead fully utilizes the Storm Calling skill line and only slots one or two Daedric Summoning skills (e.g. Haunting Curse and/ or the Atronach) would be able to dish out similar damage to a pet build, because not all Sorcerers want to be summoners.

Theist_VII · July 22

BasP wrote: »

I'd personally like it if, for example, a player that instead fully utilizes the Storm Calling skill line and only slots one or two Daedric Summoning skills (e.g. Haunting Curse and/ or the Atronach) would be able to dish out similar damage to a pet build, because not all Sorcerers want to be summoners.

In a perfect world Scribing would provide meaningful customizable damage over time so that players can parse great on whatever build they want, and that’s ultimately what we’re waiting on.

We have yet to see a Damage-Over-Time or Healing-Over-Time focus affix.

When those become available, people will be able to fully customize their builds and close the divide between “play-how-you-want” and “exceed-how-you-want.”

Yudo · July 22

MashmalloMan wrote: »

They removed the "monster" requirement and nerfed it down to 5% damage/healing when in pvp.

Still a boring set to me. 5% damage/healing in pvp is pretty mid too, would have been fair at around 6-8% imo.

The tank part of the set is the same, not even better than something like Fortified Brass when you add up the stat density since 129 damage for a tank is useless.

Idk, I guess I wanted a bit more flash and style.

Removing the monster requirement at least opens up a few options for me, it is what I was hoping for.
Although would have liked to keep the 15% healing, it got nerfed along side the damage so it is no longer on par with the sets I wanted to replace.

It went from 0/15 to 5/5 for pvp. Maybe 8/8 would be nice while under battle spirit.

YandereGirlfriend · July 22

Yudo wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

They removed the "monster" requirement and nerfed it down to 5% damage/healing when in pvp.

Still a boring set to me. 5% damage/healing in pvp is pretty mid too, would have been fair at around 6-8% imo.

The tank part of the set is the same, not even better than something like Fortified Brass when you add up the stat density since 129 damage for a tank is useless.

Idk, I guess I wanted a bit more flash and style.

Removing the monster requirement at least opens up a few options for me, it is what I was hoping for.
Although would have liked to keep the 15% healing, it got nerfed along side the damage so it is no longer on par with the sets I wanted to replace.

It went from 0/15 to 5/5 for pvp. Maybe 8/8 would be nice while under battle spirit.

Honestly, 10/10 would have been fine considering the giant annoyance of farming for sets in the Archive.

Even with that, though... it's still SO BORING and a big missed opportunity. Like, aren't these class sets meant to augment skill lines, to provide something unique for players using them? C'mon, we can do better than this.

IncultaWolf · July 22

Lol they actually nerfed this set for certain builds, I was maybe looking at it for a non pet pvp healer but 5% healing is a joke. Sorcerer can't get one decent class set? At least you have overpowered hardened ward I guess.

Aces-High-82 · July 22

Wow....a whooping 5% damage done modifier in PvP....another set DOA

Yudo · July 22

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Lol they actually nerfed this set for certain builds, I was maybe looking at it for a non pet pvp healer but 5% healing is a joke. Sorcerer can't get one decent class set? At least you have overpowered hardened ward I guess.

5%/15% would have been my dream set actually. Was also planning to use for pvp heal and try on some dd builds.