PTS Update 43 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

acastanza_ESO · July 17

Removing some of the primary counterplay to steath through the removal of DOTs (Elemental Susceptibility and Entropy) breaking cloak is absolutely unacceptable. These are core counterplay to a massively overperforming playstyle that the combat team has refused to do anything about. Making it even stronger is absolutely disgusting.

IncultaWolf · July 17

Ramping cost on shadowy disguise when? Also nerf hardened ward, it's 1 button brainless gameplay

katemedina666 · July 18

They brought my Warden to tears with their nerfs... Are you satisfied ZOSs???

Turtle_Bot · July 19

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Ramping cost on shadowy disguise when?

Considering most NB were against this proposed change to cloak because of these 2 DoTs breaking cloak, I don't see a reason it cannot be implemented now. The DoTs have been reworked, so should be zero issues giving it a ramping cost right?

MATH_COW · July 19

Piercing cold should maybe still have a bonus when we have a frost staff.
As the change we got reduce the bonus by 4% but with a good way to let people have more choice than only using frost staff (even if we know that just mean we'll be only using dual dagger in PvE now).

Maybe we should still have the damage bonus from using a frost staff that give those 4% damage that we lost.
It would allow frost staff DD to not be deleted, as even with that I guess others weapons would be better with the 8% bonus they will be able to proc easy but at least maybe not having a big gap of difference.

And if you don't want to give that damage bonus to tanky warden in PvP, which I understand even if that would not be very a big bonus mostly as that will still be less than before and as they will not get the 8% damage at some point.

So I guess that bonus should be also related to the max HP limit (that should be 35k and not 30k, I'll not change my opinion about that) then it could give a 4% damage reduction when you have more than the max HP limit and a frost staff equiped.

BasP · July 19

MATH_COW wrote: »

Maybe we should still have the damage bonus from using a frost staff that give those 4% damage that we lost.
It would allow frost staff DD to not be deleted, as even with that I guess others weapons would be better with the 8% bonus they will be able to proc easy but at least maybe not having a big gap of difference.

Yeah, it would be nice if Wardens received an extra 4% damage done buff if they used a frost staff so that Frostdens aren't worse off than before. When it comes to dummy parsing, a Stamina Warden can apparently do 143K+ DPS in the hands of a great player now, which is definitely more dan Frostdens did when frost staffs still gave that 12% buff.

Tommy_The_Gun · July 19

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Ramping cost on shadowy disguise when?

Considering most NB were against this proposed change to cloak because of these 2 DoTs breaking cloak, I don't see a reason it cannot be implemented now. The DoTs have been reworked, so should be zero issues giving it a ramping cost right?

No one ever said that it is because of 2 dots. It is because of hard counters that outright prevent the use of the skill in 1st place. Streak has ramping cost because it only has soft counters. It does not have hard counters that would prohibit the use of the skill. Same with roll dodge. It has ramping cost as there is nothing that would prevent player from performing a roll dodge. ZOS chose different ways to balance out those skills. Instead of ramping cost, stealth/invisibility has counters skills /abilities that prevent players from using it or cancel its effects.

Tone down hard counters for stealth/invisibility or remove them and then we can talk about ramping cost.

Skjaldbjorn · July 19

BasP wrote: »

Yeah, it would be nice if Wardens received an extra 4% damage done buff if they used a frost staff so that Frostdens aren't worse off than before. When it comes to dummy parsing, a Stamina Warden can apparently do 143K+ DPS in the hands of a great player now, which is definitely more dan Frostdens did when frost staffs still gave that 12% buff.

About 5k over what Frost Staff front was doing last patch. Not opposed to adding that 4% by any means, but let's also not pretend it's like a 20k gap lol

GraysontheGray · July 19

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Yeah, it would be nice if Wardens received an extra 4% damage done buff if they used a frost staff so that Frostdens aren't worse off than before. When it comes to dummy parsing, a Stamina Warden can apparently do 143K+ DPS in the hands of a great player now, which is definitely more dan Frostdens did when frost staffs still gave that 12% buff.

About 5k over what Frost Staff front was doing last patch. Not opposed to adding that 4% by any means, but let's also not pretend it's like a 20k gap lol

What is the fascination with tying the warden to the ice staff?? The ice staff should have its own damage passives so that other classes can use it as a dps weapon, after all necro and arc both have frost skills. Since apparently zos can make passives do different things based off max stats why not make the Ancient Knowledge passive a damage increase if your health is under say 30k and a tanking passive if your health is 30k or higher. This way other classes can use the ice staff and warden isnt being balanced around a specific weapon.

BasP · July 19

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Yeah, it would be nice if Wardens received an extra 4% damage done buff if they used a frost staff so that Frostdens aren't worse off than before. When it comes to dummy parsing, a Stamina Warden can apparently do 143K+ DPS in the hands of a great player now, which is definitely more dan Frostdens did when frost staffs still gave that 12% buff.

About 5k over what Frost Staff front was doing last patch. Not opposed to adding that 4% by any means, but let's also not pretend it's like a 20k gap lol

Sure, but the difference should be a bit bigger now. Maybe a Frost Staff will do around the same DPS that DW Daggers used to do? I believe that Daggers were only a few K behind Staffs in previous patches after all.

So if only one Warden build was considered to be semi-viable before, that is still the case in U43. It's just using Daggers instead of Frost Staffs now. I'm only thinking that it'd be nice if those weapons would be more equal.

_Ahala_ · July 19

GraysontheGray wrote: »

What is the fascination with tying the warden to the ice staff?? The ice staff should have its own damage passives so that other classes can use it as a dps weapon, after all necro and arc both have frost skills. Since apparently zos can make passives do different things based off max stats why not make the Ancient Knowledge passive a damage increase if your health is under say 30k and a tanking passive if your health is 30k or higher. This way other classes can use the ice staff and warden isnt being balanced around a specific weapon.

100%

Magcro with boneyard and colossus. Frozen deathknight? Feels thematically appropriate.

Magarc with tentacular dread. Not really sure but their main burst skill is frost damage lol

Magden could also pull off the classic ice mage setup without feeling punished for using lightning or fire.

Could even open up some options for those who want to play something… different. Say icesorc, iceblade (that slight chill before you get incapped to oblivion 😂) iceplar, or some sort of fire and ice dk (some dragons have frost breath)

Again these should all just be options… staff should be balanced so that they all feel equal in power but circumstantially so. Used to be that fire was single target, lightning was aoe, and ice was area denial with high control high damage ground aoe dots. Excited to see what they do with this in the future.

techprince · July 20

One suggestion to allow Necromancer's Agony Totem to do AOE damage and Remote Totem to heal or vice versa.

ESO_Nightingale · July 20

GraysontheGray wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Yeah, it would be nice if Wardens received an extra 4% damage done buff if they used a frost staff so that Frostdens aren't worse off than before. When it comes to dummy parsing, a Stamina Warden can apparently do 143K+ DPS in the hands of a great player now, which is definitely more dan Frostdens did when frost staffs still gave that 12% buff.

About 5k over what Frost Staff front was doing last patch. Not opposed to adding that 4% by any means, but let's also not pretend it's like a 20k gap lol

What is the fascination with tying the warden to the ice staff?? The ice staff should have its own damage passives so that other classes can use it as a dps weapon, after all necro and arc both have frost skills. Since apparently zos can make passives do different things based off max stats why not make the Ancient Knowledge passive a damage increase if your health is under say 30k and a tanking passive if your health is 30k or higher. This way other classes can use the ice staff and warden isnt being balanced around a specific weapon.

i actually agree! all think warden should have is increased chilled and frost damage. we were originally against the ice staff warden bonus anyway.

if they're gonna mess around with this on piercing cold, it's way better to actually do it to ancient knowlege when using an ice staff.

ZDunlain · July 20

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654204/hardened-ward-heal-making-it-to-live-is-a-mistake-and-needs-to-be-changed#latest

I think it is one of the most important feedbacks in the forum at the moment, 61 pages of conversation about the same ability and noone seems to care in the patch notes.

Skjaldbjorn · July 20

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

i actually agree! all think warden should have is increased chilled and frost damage. we were originally against the ice staff warden bonus anyway.

Goes back to the same issue though. Frost damage affects all of two skills in our kit. I just can't see Zos suddenly deciding to change damage types on the entire kit after all this time. They've had so many opportunities when reworking or altering Warden skills and just never did.

BasP · July 20

GraysontheGray wrote: »

What is the fascination with tying the warden to the ice staff?? The ice staff should have its own damage passives so that other classes can use it as a dps weapon, after all necro and arc both have frost skills. Since apparently zos can make passives do different things based off max stats why not make the Ancient Knowledge passive a damage increase if your health is under say 30k and a tanking passive if your health is 30k or higher. This way other classes can use the ice staff and warden isnt being balanced around a specific weapon.

Despite my earlier post regarding Frost Staffs and Wardens, I'd definitely prefer it if a change like this was made so that a Frost Staff would be more viable for each class instead. Considering that Scribing adds more Frost Damage skills to the game, a Warden wouldn't have to be the sole class that can be turned into a decent Frost Mage.

Edit: Spelling

TDVM · July 20

Plar skill Radiant Destruction need nerf, deals up to not 480% but at least 240% at least more damage to enemies below 50% Health.

ZDunlain · July 20

TDVM wrote: »

Plar skill Radiant Destruction need nerf, deals up to not 480% but at least 240% at least more damage to enemies below 50% Health.

If that is your concern, lol, if you ask for nerfs just buff other skills in templars because it lacks (a ton of) damage at the moment outside the execute. I think there are many other classes and abilities to nerf first in PvE/PvP.

ESO_Nightingale · July 21

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

i actually agree! all think warden should have is increased chilled and frost damage. we were originally against the ice staff warden bonus anyway.

Goes back to the same issue though. Frost damage affects all of two skills in our kit. I just can't see Zos suddenly deciding to change damage types on the entire kit after all this time. They've had so many opportunities when reworking or altering Warden skills and just never did.

Doesn't mean they never will. Besides, they could add it through one of the skills instead of one of the passives.

Revokus · July 21

Mystic Siphon needs to be a sticky dot on an enemy as long as a corps is nearby. This would really help in pvp and pve.

Turtle_Bot · July 21

BasP wrote: »

GraysontheGray wrote: »

What is the fascination with tying the warden to the ice staff?? The ice staff should have its own damage passives so that other classes can use it as a dps weapon, after all necro and arc both have frost skills. Since apparently zos can make passives do different things based off max stats why not make the Ancient Knowledge passive a damage increase if your health is under say 30k and a tanking passive if your health is 30k or higher. This way other classes can use the ice staff and warden isnt being balanced around a specific weapon.

Despite my earlier post regarding Frost Staffs and Wardens, I'd definitely prefer it if a change like this was made so that a Frost Staff would be more viable for each class instead. Considering that Scribing adds more Frost Damage skills to the game, a Warden wouldn't have to be the sole class that can be turned into a decent Frost Mage.

Edit: Spelling

I really hope they do this too.

The whole background of my main (sorc) was a combination of 2 different elemental mage characters from another game, 1 is an ice mage, the other is a fire mage that also uses lightning spells and that's what I wanted my character to be (an elemental mage with fire, ice and lightning spells with a focus on lightning, hence why I picked sorc instead of DK).

Durham · July 21

Saturday night I put my warden set-up on my Night blade.
Results
Highest Warden none crit heal 9k Highest Crit heal 14k (Artic)
Night blade heal was 9.5 slightly stronger Crit heal was 18k, vigors were stronger, and was stronger at self-healing.
However, my nightblade has a burst that my Warden can not possibly do.
My Sorc can have people effectively parsing on him while at any moment I can just dump them and I can just streak away.

Warden in my opinion is #3 class right now, why are we adjusting them and not even addressing the 2 Elephants in the room which are clealy 1 and 2.

People like to role-play also you are destroying the Ice Mage.

The health requirement for damage is not a fair adjustment. 30k is 28k on a warden.

Suggestion requiring an ability that gives you the 12% on your bar instead of having a passive.

Warden seem strong but they are only strong when with other Wardens with Polar stacking heals. If they are solo any equally skilled Night blade or Sorc will take them out.

BasP · July 21

techprince wrote: »

One suggestion to allow Necromancer's Agony Totem to do AOE damage and Remote Totem to heal or vice versa.

Yeah, it'd be great if one of those morphs would be changed into an AOE DOT so that more skills in the Necromancer's class kit would benefit from the Rapid Rot passive. The skill looks nice as well - it'd be fun to actually use it (if it dealt damage).

Edit: I suppose that another ground AOE would be pretty useless for PvP'ers however. Perhaps that would work better if it was centered on your character like Arctic Blast, though it wouldn't be a totem anymore ("Agony Aura"?).

xylena_lazarow · July 22

Ranged proc set stacks are playing the game for you, 10k burst added to a single bow heavy attack. No stat set does that. This happens constantly in PvP and it's ridiculous, on top of the horrid eardrum shattering sound effect.

ZOS has been pretty against this kind of thing in the past, nerfing many sets, adding delays, converting to dots, and so on. Tarnished, Anthelmir, Winterborn, even Caluurion (again) need to be on the curated delay list. Tarnished itself should probably be converted to a dot like Viper was, or moved into melee only like Savage Werewolf, something idk.

Durham · July 22

BasP wrote: »

GraysontheGray wrote: »

What is the fascination with tying the warden to the ice staff?? The ice staff should have its own damage passives so that other classes can use it as a dps weapon, after all necro and arc both have frost skills. Since apparently zos can make passives do different things based off max stats why not make the Ancient Knowledge passive a damage increase if your health is under say 30k and a tanking passive if your health is 30k or higher. This way other classes can use the ice staff and warden isnt being balanced around a specific weapon.

Despite my earlier post regarding Frost Staffs and Wardens, I'd definitely prefer it if a change like this was made so that a Frost Staff would be more viable for each class instead. Considering that Scribing adds more Frost Damage skills to the game, a Warden wouldn't have to be the sole class that can be turned into a decent Frost Mage.

Edit: Spelling

/agree however why not take block off of a staff.. There is no need for it! You have skill line dedicated specifically for block! I would be for taking block off of ICE and give it some damage it deserves. Currently sword and shield makes a better tank So why do we put block on a stick, which is still inferior to S/B. We also give it no damage lol.

BananaBender · July 22

Durham wrote: »

/agree however why not take block off of a staff.. There is no need for it! You have skill line dedicated specifically for block! I would be for taking block off of ICE and give it some damage it deserves. Currently sword and shield makes a better tank So why do we put block on a stick, which is still inferior to S/B. We also give it no damage lol.

Double ice staff is used a lot in tanking and is the better choice in most content compared to S&B. If you could put the decisive trait on a shield the comparison would be slightly closer, but ice staff would still probably win over S&B.

FoJul · July 22

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Ramping cost on shadowy disguise when?

Considering most NB were against this proposed change to cloak because of these 2 DoTs breaking cloak, I don't see a reason it cannot be implemented now. The DoTs have been reworked, so should be zero issues giving it a ramping cost right?

Want to see a ward adjustment first. Hardened ward is more of a problem than cloak rn.

FoJul · July 22

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Ranged proc set stacks are playing the game for you, 10k burst added to a single bow heavy attack. No stat set does that. This happens constantly in PvP and it's ridiculous, on top of the horrid eardrum shattering sound effect.

ZOS has been pretty against this kind of thing in the past, nerfing many sets, adding delays, converting to dots, and so on. Tarnished, Anthelmir, Winterborn, even Caluurion (again) need to be on the curated delay list. Tarnished itself should probably be converted to a dot like Viper was, or moved into melee only like Savage Werewolf, something idk.

Yeah and viper, good ole days. Viper selene light attack nukes.

Skjaldbjorn · July 22

Durham wrote: »

/agree however why not take block off of a staff.. There is no need for it! You have skill line dedicated specifically for block! I would be for taking block off of ICE and give it some damage it deserves. Currently sword and shield makes a better tank So why do we put block on a stick, which is still inferior to S/B. We also give it no damage lol.

As Banana already mentioned, double ice staff tanking is now incredibly common - in fact, I see plenty of cores that straight up require it.

Fantalior · July 22

Aren't you making it a bit too easy with regard to the Arcanist nerf by saying: "Ok, this class just doesn't have a finnisher anymore." Especially with regard to other PvP variations that don't want to choose this ultimate tanking orientation, that's just a shame. They should have reduced the base damage and the percentage buff a bit, for example the finnisher could have only granted his additional effects from 15% health...