Can we get rid of Engine Guardian in PvP?

divnyi · June 24

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Sporigudinai wrote: »

I never used tab target on PvP. Is it WOW?

Yeah it's known from there, you highlight an enemy with the tab key, now your attacks should target that enemy.

It doesn't work like that. Your attacks will only target that enemy if you are looking straight at him.
The difference is that it will pick him among other targets that lie under that crosshair.
So say some tank would randomly runs before your target, if you didn't have target selected, it would be hitting tank, but with target selected, you are hitting your target.

Amottica · June 25

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Details are important

I provided the details you requested. I answered your question in good faith. Yes, targeting problems are the only problem with that set, and have been for a decade. You did not need the OP personally to say that. Any PvPer can say that.

And I fail to see the point here since that post was me replying to the accusation that "all I did was attack the poster" which I pointed out how that was incorrect.

Amottica wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I know how it works. Thank you, though. That was not the point of my post. The original post of this thread just asks to get rid of the set in PvP. That is a guaranteed way to get the devs to ignore the thread since it offers nothing.

All you did was attack the other poster. I explained why Engine Guardian can be seen a problem. You're welcome.

No. I asked if the reason they posted was the only reason. They may have had more to add. Details are important, and if there is more information, it may help tilt any interest the devs may have with this. The devil is in the details.

That is not attacking. Not even remotely close to that.

I will include the post I had replied to.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I know how it works. Thank you, though. That was not the point of my post. The original post of this thread just asks to get rid of the set in PvP. That is a guaranteed way to get the devs to ignore the thread since it offers nothing.

All you did was attack the other poster. I explained why Engine Guardian can be seen a problem. You're welcome.

These details are important, and my post contains some very important details beyond just saying details are important, including why I created the post that is clearly not attacking anyone.

xylena_lazarow · June 25

divnyi wrote: »

The difference is that it will pick him among other targets that lie under that crosshair.

This is the problem in PvP though, it does NOT do this. The pet will ignore the tab target and body block anyway.

Amottica · June 25

divnyi wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Sporigudinai wrote: »

I never used tab target on PvP. Is it WOW?

Yeah it's known from there, you highlight an enemy with the tab key, now your attacks should target that enemy.

It doesn't work like that. Your attacks will only target that enemy if you are looking straight at him.
The difference is that it will pick him among other targets that lie under that crosshair.
So say some tank would randomly runs before your target, if you didn't have target selected, it would be hitting tank, but with target selected, you are hitting your target.

For the most part, that is how things work in PvP. Without getting into anything complicated it is important to keep the crosshairs on the target for the "preferred" selection to be meaningful where there are multiple targets. It is part of the reason players move and hop while in combat. It makes it difficult for those not used to it to hit the target.

It is because it is a "preferred" target vs the tab targeting we have in some other MMORPGs.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Amottica · June 25

SandandStars wrote: »

i’d love if they could implement targetting priority

(10 yr old stuck in combat bug shrugs)

i think i’m in the vast minority that doesnt enjoy having gear and cheese doing the fighting

everyone’s running tarnished, way of fire, and good old flames of oblivion hitting pretty hard for doing… nothing

it’s just the way ppl like the game

We have targeting priority. Target someone with the reticles and hit the tab. It is not the hard tab targeting like in games where such things are more like they are on rails. In ESO it requires the player to actively try to keep the targeted in the reticle. We have to remain active in combat in keep the target in our crosshairs to fight.

@divnyi discusses this above.

xylena_lazarow · June 25

Amottica wrote: »

We have to remain active in combat in keep the target in our crosshairs to fight.

You can execute perfectly and the pet will still body block. If you have never had this problem, you must have no lag.

Amottica · June 25

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

We have to remain active in combat in keep the target in our crosshairs to fight.

You can execute perfectly and the pet will still body block. If you have never had this problem, you must have no lag.

One cannot "execute perfectly" if lag is interfering with their ability to execute skills in a timely manner and keep the target in their reticle.

So if we are complaining about lag then that is a different topic.

SandandStars · June 25

i’m on an xbox controller…

divnyi · June 25

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

We have to remain active in combat in keep the target in our crosshairs to fight.

You can execute perfectly and the pet will still body block. If you have never had this problem, you must have no lag.

I'm BG player so yeah I have no lag, I use tab targeting very often on ranged classes, it just works for me.

xylena_lazarow · June 25

Amottica wrote: »

One cannot "execute perfectly" if lag is interfering with their ability to execute skills in a timely manner and keep the target in their reticle. So if we are complaining about lag then that is a different topic.

Semantics are the last refuge of a scoundrel. If lag completely warps the function of a mechanic like that, then yes there is a problem with the mechanic, no it is not some genius take to say "just fix the lag, bro" or whatever.

TybaltKaine · June 25

No Proc exists

SandandStars wrote: »

i’m on an xbox controller…

Holding down R3(right stick) should outline the target. The problem is lining them up in the first place

SandandStars · June 25

Thanks Tybalt! so do i need to hold it down to “lock on” before each individual attack/cast, or will it stay locked on the player (and ignore the engine guardian) for the duration of the fight? And if the engine guardian respawns, will I need to lock on with the right stick again?

TybaltKaine · June 25

It should keep them highlighted until you change it, you'll get the white outline around the character and it sticks through all attacks as far as I know. It's the closest you can get to Tab targeting with gamepad.

SandandStars · June 26

Awesome, I will try it. Thank you!

TybaltKaine · June 26

If R3 Doesn't work, try holding X. The keybind for it under controls is "Cycle Preferred Target" and mine defaults to holding X on the B style preset.

Amottica · June 27

divnyi wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

We have to remain active in combat in keep the target in our crosshairs to fight.

You can execute perfectly and the pet will still body block. If you have never had this problem, you must have no lag.

I'm BG player so yeah I have no lag, I use tab targeting very often on ranged classes, it just works for me.

Thank you for clearing that up. So, if one executes perfectly, it works just fine.

xylena_lazarow · June 27

Amottica wrote: »

So, if one executes perfectly, it works just fine.

Time for me to git gud and remove all my lag. Thanks for the tip. Let it be known, lag is a skill issue.

Amottica · June 27

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

So, if one executes perfectly, it works just fine.

Time for me to git gud and remove all my lag. Thanks for the tip. Let it be known, lag is a skill issue.

At no point did I say or suggest that lag was an issue with the player's capability. I did note, very clearly, might I add, that one cannot execute perfectly if lag is interfering with that ability to do so.

We can add that @divnyi supported that comment by pointing out that the targeting system works just fine for him in BGs where lag is not present. With that, Cyrodiil does have lag, but it is not constantly present.

LittlePinkDot · June 29

TybaltKaine wrote: »

No Proc exists

SandandStars wrote: »

i’m on an xbox controller…

Holding down R3(right stick) should outline the target. The problem is lining them up in the first place

Isn't R3 sneak??? I'm on PS5 though. If tab targeting and sneak are the same button there's no point in using it since it's going to put you in sneak everytime you miss target and push R3 at the wrong time.

It's probably better just to free aim.

Amottica · June 29

Amottica wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

So, if one executes perfectly, it works just fine.

Time for me to git gud and remove all my lag. Thanks for the tip. Let it be known, lag is a skill issue.

At no point did I say or suggest that lag was an issue with the player's capability. I did note, very clearly, might I add, that one cannot execute perfectly if lag is interfering with that ability to do so.

We can add that @divnyi supported that comment by pointing out that the targeting system works just fine for him in BGs where lag is not present. With that, Cyrodiil does have lag, but it is not constantly present.

Adding to this comment, we have demonstrated it is not an engine guardian problem.

If a player targets properly and "executes perfectly," as was noted before, targeting the player behind the engine guardian works just fine. Lag can interfere with being able to target perfectly.

Gilvoth · June 29

engine guardian makes it impossible to target the player, it absorbs all your attacks in pvp.
it needs to be untargetable.
make it so we cant target the pet, the same goes for ALL pets.
please make the engine guardian and all pets untargettable

Why is the nightblade summon pet "shade" untargettable and All other pets including the engine guardian targettable?

fred4 · June 30

Who is using it? It was always a decent option on sorc, not least due to Dark Deal / Conversion, but it counts as a pet and high magicka magsorc is meta now. Pets shift mag to health, due to the revised sorc passives. You won't, or at least you shouldn't, currently see EG on your average sorc for that reason.

You also shouldn't see it on a nightblade. I don't think I've ever seen it on one. Balorgh or a damage proc is meta for them.

That's two of the current top classes off the table. Leave EG to the others, who may need it, I say. Again: Who's using it?

ToRelax · July 1

fred4 wrote: »

[...]Pets shift mag to health, due to the revised sorc passives. You won't, or at least you shouldn't, currently see EG on your average sorc for that reason.

[...]

Bigger reason is losing the heal on ward. Either way such a strange set to complain about. Haven't used it since 2015.

Then again, there exist people using Roksa, so EG must look godlike in comparison.

ClowdyAllDay · July 1

Lets get rid of EG because... someone killed me with it and i got sour grapes?

fred4 · July 1

ToRelax wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

[...]Pets shift mag to health, due to the revised sorc passives. You won't, or at least you shouldn't, currently see EG on your average sorc for that reason.

[...]

Bigger reason is losing the heal on ward.

Oops. Didn't even realise. Only knew that EG was bad.

divnyi · July 1

ToRelax wrote: »

Then again, there exist people using Roksa, so EG must look godlike in comparison.

I'd take 300 regens of every type over a pet that restores a random bar any day.

xylena_lazarow · July 1

ClowdyAllDay wrote: »

Lets get rid of EG because... someone killed me with it and i got sour grapes?

Engine doesn't kill anything, it randomly saves the user from being killed, not unlike the old version of Shuffle with the RNG dodge effect that ZOS wisely decided was bad for the game.

edward_frigidhands · July 2

SandandStars wrote: »

no offense, but do you play pvp?

if u do, it’s pretty annoying. it acts like a shield and soaks up damage.

robot cheatball, ive heard it called

Robot cheatball. That's kinda cute tbh.