Ward Changes are a huge QoL improvement in PvE!

Dracane

What the hell. It scales with magicka afterall? No way.
I haven't noticed. The heal is pretty low in pvp considering how much magicka I have. Well, that's very interesting.

xylena_lazarow

Dracane wrote: »

What the hell. It scales with magicka afterall? No way.
I haven't noticed. The heal is pretty low in pvp considering how much magicka I have. Well, that's very interesting.

Yeah lol. With 60k+ max mag in PvP the heal is around 11k in Cyro, rivaling standalone unshielded burst heals on the traditionally tanky classes. There's no reason a DD needs that, they can slot Vigor or Vibrant Shroud if they need extra healing so badly. The hp scaling heal for PvE tanks does sound like it was much needed.

It's also a bit odd to call this "QoL" when it's a direct buff to combat power, not a UI shortcut or whatever.

Dracane

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

What the hell. It scales with magicka afterall? No way.
I haven't noticed. The heal is pretty low in pvp considering how much magicka I have. Well, that's very interesting.

Yeah lol. With 60k+ max mag in PvP the heal is around 11k in Cyro, rivaling standalone unshielded burst heals on the traditionally tanky classes. There's no reason a DD needs that, they can slot Vigor or Vibrant Shroud if they need extra healing so badly. The hp scaling heal for PvE tanks does sound like it was much needed.

It's also a bit odd to call this "QoL" when it's a direct buff to combat power, not a UI shortcut or whatever.

Okay with crits and probably some extra crit modifiers, but not normally. Let's not take crit heals as the standard.

With 72k magicka, the heal is 4.8k tooltip for me. This does not sound unbalanced whatsoever. Most Sorcs run around 48k magicka, so for them the heal is just about 3.3k. Kind of hard to see how this would even turn into an 11k crit heal. Magsorcs do not stack crit damage/heal.

xylena_lazarow

Dracane wrote: »

With 72k magicka, the heal is 4.8k tooltip for me

This is at 62k max mag in Cyro, there's a thread in the PvP Combat section with build details.

To relate back to the PvE topic, across classes PvE DDs have long been fine with LA Annulment if they needed to run a damage shield, including for solo content, no heal was needed on it. The buff was justified for tanks, but not DDs.

Dracane

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

With 72k magicka, the heal is 4.8k tooltip for me

This is at 62k max mag in Cyro, there's a thread in the PvP Combat section with build details.

To relate back to the PvE topic, across classes PvE DDs have long been fine with LA Annulment if they needed to run a damage shield, including for solo content, no heal was needed on it. The buff was justified for tanks, but not DDs.

Ah yes, I think we were mistaking. Tooltips don't account for Battle Spirit it seems.

This is my ward.



But when using it whilst missing health, you see the real heal.
Actual heal: 5093 (again, I stack obscene magicka. For most people it will be 2 thirds of this, probably less)
Crit heal: 7741

So whoever tells you they heal for 11k ward, are either just a tooltip warrior and don't actually play the class, or have some gimped build with obscene amounts of healing %s.

StaticWave

I do solo PvP content with Surge and Vigor and still be fine. Burst heal on Ward is not needed and was a PvP buff lol

Turtle_Bot

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

With 72k magicka, the heal is 4.8k tooltip for me

This is at 62k max mag in Cyro, there's a thread in the PvP Combat section with build details.

To relate back to the PvE topic, across classes PvE DDs have long been fine with LA Annulment if they needed to run a damage shield, including for solo content, no heal was needed on it. The buff was justified for tanks, but not DDs.

Just FYI, this heal is only a 5.3k actual heal, not the 11k of the tooltip.

I have gone over this is detail in that other thread, but the TL//DR is that the tooltips for heals are not adjusted for battle spirit, while the tooltips for shields are adjusted for battle spirit.

RomanRex

Well, this is a PvE post. If you have experience with how this has impacted PvE play, please share. I don’t particularly care about PvP complaints here and don’t need attempts to derail the intended focus.

The heals have been a huge boost for tanky builds. This is especially true for when I am in Infinite Archive. Tanky builds reign supreme there, especially later Arcs. It has helped improve my sustain and made IA much more enjoyable.

Turtle_Bot

Now if only the sorc class set was actually worth farming from IA...

RomanRex

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Now if only the sorc class set was actually worth farming from IA...

Agreed. Maybe the next batch of class sets will be better. 🙂

The loot and other drops are still worth the runs for me.

Turtle_Bot

As long as the class set for the dark magic line is actually good (and not just because of some stupid OP tooltip or effect, but through actual synergy, fun yet simple mechanics and thematically relevant with the abilities in that line), I'll be somewhat happy (although Monolith of Storms still desperately needs a complete redesign from scratch).

Honestly the Monolith set seems like it should have been made for the Daedric Summoning line, since it summons things and has more to do with creating additional units to help kill enemies, where the Storm Calling line active abilities themselves are far more focused around utility, buffs, AoE, damage over time and mobility.

StaticWave

RomanRex wrote: »

Well, this is a PvE post. If you have experience with how this has impacted PvE play, please share. I don’t particularly care about PvP complaints here and don’t need attempts to derail the intended focus.

The heals have been a huge boost for tanky builds. This is especially true for when I am in Infinite Archive. Tanky builds reign supreme there, especially later Arcs. It has helped improve my sustain and made IA much more enjoyable.

Turn it into a HoT so PvP isn't infested with overly tanky magsorcs.

Dracane

StaticWave wrote: »

That screenshot over there is a 32k shield in PvE and a 11k burst heal. 32k shield is PLENTY in PvE. I don't understand why a 11k burst heal is needed when you can just spam shield and let Vigor/Surge do the work.

This is untrue. I don't think you understand as much about the skill as you say. Certainly not when it comes to pve.
Ward has an HP cap, so you need both very high magicka and very high health to make it stronger.

For instance my pve tank has about 34k health, 45k magicka, and my ward is like 22kish without vitalities.
I think you just want to rage for the sake of it, about things you do not truly know much about. I love your theorycrafting, and your builds, but this is too much theory.

Dracane

StaticWave wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

Well, this is a PvE post. If you have experience with how this has impacted PvE play, please share. I don’t particularly care about PvP complaints here and don’t need attempts to derail the intended focus.

The heals have been a huge boost for tanky builds. This is especially true for when I am in Infinite Archive. Tanky builds reign supreme there, especially later Arcs. It has helped improve my sustain and made IA much more enjoyable.

Turn it into a HoT so PvP isn't infested with overly tanky magsorcs.

Indeed, it should be a HoT, or mix between a smaller direct heal and a higher HoT.

StaticWave

Dracane wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

Well, this is a PvE post. If you have experience with how this has impacted PvE play, please share. I don’t particularly care about PvP complaints here and don’t need attempts to derail the intended focus.

The heals have been a huge boost for tanky builds. This is especially true for when I am in Infinite Archive. Tanky builds reign supreme there, especially later Arcs. It has helped improve my sustain and made IA much more enjoyable.

Turn it into a HoT so PvP isn't infested with overly tanky magsorcs.

Indeed, it should be a HoT, or mix between a smaller direct heal and a higher HoT.

Yes, but the OP doesn't want it to be a HoT. He wants to keep it a burst heal which is broken in PvP lol.

StaticWave

Dracane wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

That screenshot over there is a 32k shield in PvE and a 11k burst heal. 32k shield is PLENTY in PvE. I don't understand why a 11k burst heal is needed when you can just spam shield and let Vigor/Surge do the work.

This is untrue. I don't think you understand as much about the skill as you say. Certainly not when it comes to pve.
Ward has an HP cap, so you need both very high magicka and very high health to make it stronger.

For instance my pve tank has about 34k health, 45k magicka, and my ward is like 22kish without vitalities.
I think you just want to rage for the sake of it, about things you do not truly know much about. I love your theorycrafting, and your builds, but this is too much theory.

That's a fair point about the HP cap. But are you going to address the fact that stamsorc doesn't even have a shield but can still do most solo PvE content with just Surge and occasionally Vigor?

What makes magsorc so much harder in comparison?

Turtle_Bot

StaticWave wrote: »

What makes magsorc so much harder in comparison?

A lot of it is:
- the weapon and armor passives (daggers crit chance and medium armors raw damage specifically)
- the way that sorcs abilities have been split between mag/stam (bound armaments especially)
- the fact that the pets are just objectively the superior way to play sorc in PvE (even stamsorc runs them for PvE) so proccing crit surge is unreliable at the best of times.

The staff passives have typically just not been as generically good as the DW/2h/bow passives for DPS, especially for crit chance (to proc crit surge more reliably). Medium armor is just much stronger to use for DPS, since light armors main DPS stat (pen) is hard capped to 18k which most groups will reach without any light armor (or maybe 1 piece at most). Raw damage has no cap on it so it can be increased exponentially.

Pets don't proc crit surge (they don't count as player sourced damage) or proc sets.

Sorcs mag options for good DoTs and AoEs are also more limited than stamsorc. Hurricane is objectively better than boundless, lightning splash is completely useless, bound armaments is technically a delayed burst DoT (4 chances to proc crit surge as well as inflict sundered which is another chance per hit) that is stamlocked (the max stam does nothing when building for max mag), wall is decent now with status effect changes, same with ele sus (although in PvE the breach from this is useless in group content), but things like carve, stampede, rain of arrows, barbed trap (until this patch), blade cloak, etc have typically just been the superior options.


It's not so much that sorc requires a big heal on the shield for PvE or even a significant amount more healing, but having some slightly more reliable passive healing over time would allow magsorc to have that same level of passive healing that stamsorc gets naturally via crit surge procs while ward would act more like vigor for those big hits, just pre-emptively instead of reactively.
So whether that's via a HoT on ward, fixing the discrepancies between light and medium armor for damage and stamina/magicka weapons for crit chance access or increasing the reliability/strength/frequency/utility of the mag DoTs (such as liquid lightning), increasing access to crit chance, or allowing "burst" DoTs like armaments to be used effectively by both mag and stamsorcs, to more reliably proc crit surge, there is just that gap there that needs something to be addressed (not all of them, but pick one (or 2)).

ZhuJiuyin

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

As long as the class set for the dark magic line is actually good (and not just because of some stupid OP tooltip or effect, but through actual synergy, fun yet simple mechanics and thematically relevant with the abilities in that line), I'll be somewhat happy (although Monolith of Storms still desperately needs a complete redesign from scratch).

Honestly the Monolith set seems like it should have been made for the Daedric Summoning line, since it summons things and has more to do with creating additional units to help kill enemies, where the Storm Calling line active abilities themselves are far more focused around utility, buffs, AoE, damage over time and mobility.

To be fair, Monolith of Storms' tooltips are pretty much the same as post-nerf Nirn. But the bad thing is that in Sorc's Storm Calling line, except for Streak (in the PVP), other skills are not very good. Lightning Splash has poor DPS, too high Cost, and too long casting animation. Lightning Form only has 1 tick every two seconds and cannot proc Monolith of Storms very well. Mages' Fury only has enough damage during execution.
Obviously, what needs BUFF more is the Storm Calling line. Lightning Splash needs to fix the DPS and animation and reduce the Cost. Lightning Form needs to change the range to 7 or 8 feet, and at least one version of magic or endurance needs to be changed to 1 tick per second. Mages 'Fury should have a morph that's spam.

Dracane

StaticWave wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

That screenshot over there is a 32k shield in PvE and a 11k burst heal. 32k shield is PLENTY in PvE. I don't understand why a 11k burst heal is needed when you can just spam shield and let Vigor/Surge do the work.

This is untrue. I don't think you understand as much about the skill as you say. Certainly not when it comes to pve.
Ward has an HP cap, so you need both very high magicka and very high health to make it stronger.

For instance my pve tank has about 34k health, 45k magicka, and my ward is like 22kish without vitalities.
I think you just want to rage for the sake of it, about things you do not truly know much about. I love your theorycrafting, and your builds, but this is too much theory.

That's a fair point about the HP cap. But are you going to address the fact that stamsorc doesn't even have a shield but can still do most solo PvE content with just Surge and occasionally Vigor?

What makes magsorc so much harder in comparison?

Stamsorc is the best single target dps in the game, and wanted in most raid groups. Magicka Sorcerer does simply not exist in pve. You see them as healers sometimes, or as tanks for specific tasks.
This shield change has absolutely helped Magsorc secure a stronger role in those. Not having to waste 2 slots for the Clannfear allows us much needed utility for groups. Or it allows us to use the Matriarch instead, which also helps the group.

Magsorc definitely needed help in more serious pve.

StaticWave

Dracane wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

That screenshot over there is a 32k shield in PvE and a 11k burst heal. 32k shield is PLENTY in PvE. I don't understand why a 11k burst heal is needed when you can just spam shield and let Vigor/Surge do the work.

This is untrue. I don't think you understand as much about the skill as you say. Certainly not when it comes to pve.
Ward has an HP cap, so you need both very high magicka and very high health to make it stronger.

For instance my pve tank has about 34k health, 45k magicka, and my ward is like 22kish without vitalities.
I think you just want to rage for the sake of it, about things you do not truly know much about. I love your theorycrafting, and your builds, but this is too much theory.

That's a fair point about the HP cap. But are you going to address the fact that stamsorc doesn't even have a shield but can still do most solo PvE content with just Surge and occasionally Vigor?

What makes magsorc so much harder in comparison?

Stamsorc is the best single target dps in the game, and wanted in most raid groups. Magicka Sorcerer does simply not exist in pve. You see them as healers sometimes, or as tanks for specific tasks.
This shield change has absolutely helped Magsorc secure a stronger role in those. Not having to waste 2 slots for the Clannfear allows us much needed utility for groups. Or it allows us to use the Matriarch instead, which also helps the group.

Magsorc definitely needed help in more serious pve.

And I agree that Sorc needs some healing, but definitely not a burst heal underneath a shield as that is insanely broken in PvP.

It's more so the fact that we're criticizing the OP of this thread when he has openly stated his stance on Ward, which is:

RomanRex wrote: »

The changes are important to make non-pet mag sorcs viable without being over powered.

Even you are more reasonable than the OP when it comes to combat balance, as you've stated Ward should be a HoT or a mix of both.

Dracane

StaticWave wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

That screenshot over there is a 32k shield in PvE and a 11k burst heal. 32k shield is PLENTY in PvE. I don't understand why a 11k burst heal is needed when you can just spam shield and let Vigor/Surge do the work.

This is untrue. I don't think you understand as much about the skill as you say. Certainly not when it comes to pve.
Ward has an HP cap, so you need both very high magicka and very high health to make it stronger.

For instance my pve tank has about 34k health, 45k magicka, and my ward is like 22kish without vitalities.
I think you just want to rage for the sake of it, about things you do not truly know much about. I love your theorycrafting, and your builds, but this is too much theory.

That's a fair point about the HP cap. But are you going to address the fact that stamsorc doesn't even have a shield but can still do most solo PvE content with just Surge and occasionally Vigor?

What makes magsorc so much harder in comparison?

Stamsorc is the best single target dps in the game, and wanted in most raid groups. Magicka Sorcerer does simply not exist in pve. You see them as healers sometimes, or as tanks for specific tasks.
This shield change has absolutely helped Magsorc secure a stronger role in those. Not having to waste 2 slots for the Clannfear allows us much needed utility for groups. Or it allows us to use the Matriarch instead, which also helps the group.

Magsorc definitely needed help in more serious pve.

And I agree that Sorc needs some healing, but definitely not a burst heal underneath a shield as that is insanely broken in PvP.

It's more so the fact that we're criticizing the OP of this thread when he has openly stated his stance on Ward, which is:

RomanRex wrote: »

The changes are important to make non-pet mag sorcs viable without being over powered.

Even you are more reasonable than the OP when it comes to combat balance, as you've stated Ward should be a HoT or a mix of both.

I am glad that even "I" am granted the title of reasonable. All I see is that OP has not criticised me or anyone for suggestion a HoT. I even believe that he specifically clicked "Agree" on several of mine. That's merely an assumption though.

My stance on the matter is that I am extremely extremely tired of Stamsorc being the outright better spec in all aspects of the game for what feels like years? I am sure it's been years. They are the much much better pve dps (Magsorc still irrelevant in that aspect) and for so long now, Stamsorc was also the much stronger pvp spec.

Now they feel more leveled, although I still always struggle more against Stamsorcs, both in terms of killing them and surviving them, as they have much more pressure and dodging. Maybe I just know Magsorc too well to struggle against them. It could be anything; but I think Stamsorc is still more effective.

StaticWave

Dracane wrote: »

I am glad that even "I" am granted the title of reasonable. All I see is that OP has not criticised me or anyone for suggestion a HoT. I even believe that he specifically clicked "Agree" on several of mine. That's merely an assumption though.

My stance on the matter is that I am extremely extremely tired of Stamsorc being the outright better spec in all aspects of the game for what feels like years? I am sure it's been years. They are the much much better pve dps (Magsorc still irrelevant in that aspect) and for so long now, Stamsorc was also the much stronger pvp spec.

Now they feel more leveled, although I still always struggle more against Stamsorcs, both in terms of killing them and surviving them, as they have much more pressure and dodging. Maybe I just know Magsorc too well to struggle against them. It could be anything; but I think Stamsorc is still more effective.

I said you're more reasonable because you're willing to compromise your stance for the sake of balance. If I really wanted Ward nerfed to the ground, I would just ask them to remove the burst heal altogether. Instead, we've agreed that a HoT is more balanced than a burst heal on Ward.

You should have seen his responses on my thread when I raised the concern about Ward change making magsorc too tanky in PvP. Even when I suggested that the burst heal be converted to a HoT, he refused to accept that magsorc is too tanky and would rather leave the change as is. He only agrees with people who doesn't want Ward nerfed, and would pick small parts of people's arguments to agree with them.

Dracane

StaticWave wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I am glad that even "I" am granted the title of reasonable. All I see is that OP has not criticised me or anyone for suggestion a HoT. I even believe that he specifically clicked "Agree" on several of mine. That's merely an assumption though.

My stance on the matter is that I am extremely extremely tired of Stamsorc being the outright better spec in all aspects of the game for what feels like years? I am sure it's been years. They are the much much better pve dps (Magsorc still irrelevant in that aspect) and for so long now, Stamsorc was also the much stronger pvp spec.

Now they feel more leveled, although I still always struggle more against Stamsorcs, both in terms of killing them and surviving them, as they have much more pressure and dodging. Maybe I just know Magsorc too well to struggle against them. It could be anything; but I think Stamsorc is still more effective.

I said you're more reasonable because you're willing to compromise your stance for the sake of balance. If I really wanted Ward nerfed to the ground, I would just ask them to remove the burst heal altogether. Instead, we've agreed that a HoT is more balanced than a burst heal on Ward.

You should have seen his responses on my thread when I raised the concern about Ward change making magsorc too tanky in PvP. Even when I suggested that the burst heal be converted to a HoT, he refused to accept that magsorc is too tanky and would rather leave the change as is. He only agrees with people who doesn't want Ward nerfed, and would pick small parts of people's arguments to agree with them.

I am digging through your thread as we speak. I have been reading on and off all morning.
It's certainly interesting to see all the different opinions in there. I am still in March, and am curious to see if and how the perception changes as I approach current day.

I don't even think a HoT is a nerf. It might even be a buff. Maybe we get awarded with a larger total heal per cast, just spread out over some seconds. I don't see it as a big deal, because I doubt they would just outright nerf the skill without giving anything back.

Zenimax has correctly stated in their commentry that this skill is Sorc's identity and main line of defense. Like every good class main skill, it has to be mighty and competitive. The game will never be balanced around 1v1, and defense options will always be way too strong. But we will see what time brings.

StaticWave

Dracane wrote: »

I am digging through your thread as we speak. I have been reading on and off all morning.
It's certainly interesting to see all the different opinions in there. I am still in March, and am curious to see if and how the perception changes as I approach current day.

I don't even think a HoT is a nerf. It might even be a buff. Maybe we get awarded with a larger total heal per cast, just spread out over some seconds. I don't see it as a big deal, because I doubt they would just outright nerf the skill without giving anything back.

Zenimax has correctly stated in their commentry that this skill is Sorc's identity and main line of defense. Like every good class main skill, it has to be mighty and competitive. The game will never be balanced around 1v1, and defense options will always be way too strong. But we will see what time brings.

The HoT can be a buff for offense since it allows you to stay on the offense for longer. It's definitely not going to be a buff for defense though, which is my main concern about Ward.

It's just like U40 Ward + Vigor, but you get to save a GCD. Afaik, U40 magsorc was not as difficult to kill as U41 magsorc, so that's a fair defensive change.

Dracane

StaticWave wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I am digging through your thread as we speak. I have been reading on and off all morning.
It's certainly interesting to see all the different opinions in there. I am still in March, and am curious to see if and how the perception changes as I approach current day.

I don't even think a HoT is a nerf. It might even be a buff. Maybe we get awarded with a larger total heal per cast, just spread out over some seconds. I don't see it as a big deal, because I doubt they would just outright nerf the skill without giving anything back.

Zenimax has correctly stated in their commentry that this skill is Sorc's identity and main line of defense. Like every good class main skill, it has to be mighty and competitive. The game will never be balanced around 1v1, and defense options will always be way too strong. But we will see what time brings.

The HoT can be a buff for offense since it allows you to stay on the offense for longer. It's definitely not going to be a buff for defense though, which is my main concern about Ward.

It's just like U40 Ward + Vigor, but you get to save a GCD. Afaik, U40 magsorc was not as difficult to kill as U41 magsorc, so that's a fair defensive change.

Well, all the better. This is clearly ZoS' vision anyway. They said they want to allow Sorcerer a larger offensive window, than just having to spam ward without ever getting to attack.

A HoT would serve this idea even better than the current iteration.

Galeriano2

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hardened Ward completely destroys competitive balance in PvP where you now have a spec with no weaknesses, a highly mobile ranged nuke that is also a tank with 1 funny button for survival. Obviously weaker players enjoy that it makes the game "easy" but so would literal god mode and you know darn well people would try to defend that too.

Yeah sure, we had almost 10 years of a perfect "competitive balance in PvP" until this particular change came up right? Get real

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hardened Ward completely destroys competitive balance in PvP where you now have a spec with no weaknesses, a highly mobile ranged nuke that is also a tank with 1 funny button for survival. Obviously weaker players enjoy that it makes the game "easy" but so would literal god mode and you know darn well people would try to defend that too.

Yeah sure, we had almost 10 years of a perfect "competitive balance in PvP" until this particular change came up right? Get real

You wanted NB nerfed right? Do you also want Sorc nerfed as well?

RomanRex

Dracane wrote: »

I am glad that even "I" am granted the title of reasonable. All I see is that OP has not criticised me or anyone for suggestion a HoT. I even believe that he specifically clicked "Agree" on several of mine. That's merely an assumption though.

I have never outright argued against a HoT. Maybe a good compromise would be half the heal on cast the rest over the 6 second duration.

In my experience, when a marauder surprises you in IA… you need at least a small burst heal to survive it. I find that this change (with the correct tanky build) gives just the amount needed to make it through. It isn’t dependent on a pet which can easily die and can’t be interrupted to totally negate its purpose.

StaticWave

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hardened Ward completely destroys competitive balance in PvP where you now have a spec with no weaknesses, a highly mobile ranged nuke that is also a tank with 1 funny button for survival. Obviously weaker players enjoy that it makes the game "easy" but so would literal god mode and you know darn well people would try to defend that too.

Yeah sure, we had almost 10 years of a perfect "competitive balance in PvP" until this particular change came up right? Get real

Strawman argument

Isn't brining out a "competitive balance of PvP" in a thread about PvE a strawman argument by definition? .

Ofc not. PvE and PvP are inter-related. Perfectly reasonable for PvErs to comment on a PvP thread if it affects them and vice versa. Another strawman on your part with this comment.

Nobody said anything about the game being balanced in the past. You just put words his mouth, the same way you complain about ppl putting words in your mouth.

RomanRex

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Galeriano2 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hardened Ward completely destroys competitive balance in PvP where you now have a spec with no weaknesses, a highly mobile ranged nuke that is also a tank with 1 funny button for survival. Obviously weaker players enjoy that it makes the game "easy" but so would literal god mode and you know darn well people would try to defend that too.

Yeah sure, we had almost 10 years of a perfect "competitive balance in PvP" until this particular change came up right? Get real

Strawman argument

Isn't brining out a "competitive balance of PvP" in a thread about PvE a strawman argument by definition? .

Ofc not. PvE and PvP are inter-related. Perfectly reasonable for PvErs to comment on a PvP thread if it affects them and vice versa. Another strawman on your part with this comment.

There is a PvP post already. I brought up PvE considerations there and was told I was taking it off topic. I created this post for PvE considerations. If you have any meaningful contribution about how this has impacted your PvE play, they are welcome. Otherwise, PvP issues have been throughly (often harassingly) covered in another post that I got out of for a reason.