Mail changes

peacenote

Ilumia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

People usually only go away for vacation once a year. Just prepare for this by clearing all mail and removing any items already up for sale until back home.

Just because that's the only example you can imagine, it doesn't mean that anyone else might not have a different life where this change presents problems. That's what this thread is about, and people have given plenty of examples and make complaints about a system that's getting a QoL deterioration/worsening.

Agreed. I mean, there's vacations, business trips, illnesses, people visiting YOU, technology issues, etc. All kinds of reasons why you can't always log in and why, when you can, there isn't time for inventory management.

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

People, PLEASE do read the PTS Patch Notes precisely !!!!

The whole thing we need to worry about is - as far as I can tell atm - only the mails related to the Guild Trader and here from my pov only the one for *Returns / Sales*. This timer with its 14 days is too short!!!

Completely disagree although I appreciate what you're trying to highlight. I read the notes carefully. I often need to log in to a character for a second without having time to go through all of its mail. I am just as concerned about the mails triggered by login as for the ones that aren't. Examples as to why in my previous post.

Ilumia

@peacenote
Yes exactly. One of my own cases (and there are more ofc, but this one I didn't know was going to be as long as it was), was during covid working at a hospital:
My husband receives immunosupressant treatment, so I was offered one of the rooms for students who live to far away to commute, so I could keep working without risking bringing infection home to him. It was only supposed to be 5 days, but endned up being almost 3 weeks, because so many people got sick and couldn't work. As I remember it, my husband was sweet enough to log on and secure everything.
Doing this to the mail system is just another one of those things that pushes me to take a break when my real life is too busy, or actually just successful, because the game has so many fomo/time limited mechanics. I mean I get the log-on statistics and time-played. But, man, these mechanics burn me out and makes me hate parts of the game so much that it can definitely ruin the entire thing for me - it just turns sour.

Anifaas

Cool, more restrictions.

evymyu233

It will cause inconvenience to players.This is a computer game, not a mobile game,people cannot log in once they are on a business trip or have other matters to attend to.

Nestor

7 Days is too short of a time. I don't need to go into some lengthy discussion about why this is Bad.

30 Days should be the shortest duration.

Thank you.

ShadowPaladin

peacenote wrote: »

Completely disagree although I appreciate what you're trying to highlight. I read the notes carefully. I often need to log in to a character for a second without having time to go through all of its mail. I am just as concerned about the mails triggered by login as for the ones that aren't. Examples as to why in my previous post.

Just asking out of curiosity.

Won't it be easier for you going through your ingame mails and claiming them with the new *Mail Categories* and *Mail Sorting* introduced with the upcoming chapter, as well as the * "Take All” Function* coming too? With that it should be possible to better handle ingame mails, even if you will only log in for a short time.

daim

Well this sucks if it's implemented.

Elsonso

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

• Guild Trader Purchases: 7 days
• Guild Trader Returns / Sales: 14 days

Those exceptions I marked RED. Those are the ones where the timer(s) will start the moment the mail is generated by the system!

Honestly, looking at this from how people likely use the mail, the only one that seems to be of concern to me is the 14 day trader returns and sales timer. I think that should be 30 days, just to avoid potential issues. Players have little control over when those get sent.

Trader purchases are probably going to be fine at 7 days. The player controls when it gets sent, and they are in control of when it is received. I usually get the email as soon as I can, and that would seem to me to be the typical use case. The limit of 7 days should be enough to resolve any issues with receiving the mail, given that the player is in control of when it is sent.

SilverBride

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

Jaraal

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

Completely disagree although I appreciate what you're trying to highlight. I read the notes carefully. I often need to log in to a character for a second without having time to go through all of its mail. I am just as concerned about the mails triggered by login as for the ones that aren't. Examples as to why in my previous post.

Just asking out of curiosity.

Won't it be easier for you going through your ingame mails and claiming them with the new *Mail Categories* and *Mail Sorting* introduced with the upcoming chapter, as well as the * "Take All” Function* coming too? With that it should be possible to better handle ingame mails, even if you will only log in for a short time.

Tell me what part of this will be easier / more intuitive?

Mail Sorting

Player Mail is now sorted based on expiration with the most recently received message displayed at the top.

System Mail and System Alerts are sorted based on expiration with the soonest-to-expire message displayed at the top.

Does anybody think that having one category of mail posting from newest to oldest, and another category posting from oldest to newest is a good idea? And is anybody actually looking forward to scrolling through all your old mail to see the new mail at the bottom of the page?

Narvuntien

Holy I didn't notice that, I am critically dependent on my mail storage.
I don't have enough inventory or bank space to function and no way beyond paying real money to expand it.

So I list things to sell, if they don't sell I leave them in my mail for 30 days before often looping them back into a guild store giving me 60 days of "storage"

You limit my mail to 7 days and I will be completely unable to play PVP, or Tales of Tribute because I don't have the inventory space to deal with all the stuff those activities generate.

I tend to only open one rewards for the worthy a day for maximum transmutation gems.

JavaRen

My reading comprehension is failling, could someone point out to me which part of this impacts the use of mail as storage?

SilverBride

JavaRen wrote: »

My reading comprehension is failling, could someone point out to me which part of this impacts the use of mail as storage?

If the mail disappears after 7 days then it's not as secure of a storage method like it was before.

Desiato

IMO

Hireling Mails: 7 days

Fair

Activity Finder Rewards: 7 days

Fair

Rewards for the Worthy: 7 days

Should be longer for PVP enthusiasts who like to deal with these in batches. It's already so much of a hassle for players who only like to PVP to be able spend their time doing that.

Guild Trader Purchases: 7 days

Fair

Guild Trader Returns / Sales: 14 days

This needs to be longer as we can't control when items are sold and it's possible for anyone to have an unforeseen absence from the game.

Weekly Leaderboard Rewards: 14 days

If the timer begins after the player is first notified of the message after logging in, then I think it's fair.

The items I listed as fair are things I think players should reasonably be expected to take care of when they perform the activity resulting in the mail, such as buying an item.

If I read the items quoted from pts patch notes correctly, it seems player to player mail will continue to behave as it always has.

Ilumia

SilverBride wrote: »

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

I think that's inconsiderate. But maybe this wouldn't be a problem if zos did more to mitigate the endless inventory management game. Personally I don't use my mail as storage, it causes more issues for me than it solves, but I really get using all the means available to try to deal with having too little storage (which people can definitely have for lots of ligitimate reasons, though I won't derail the thread by listing here).
Also if zos wanted to deal with the mail-as-storage, they could keep a 30 day expiration time for sold item mail + expired mail from guild stores. Purchases left in mail are not likely to expire on people in most cases as they can easily be looted before not playing for a while for whatever reason.
For most of the other problems people present here, it'd be helped a lot by more inventory/ bank space.

Allthough honestly I think this qol "improvement" should be dropped, it just sucks.

wolfie1.0.

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

Completely disagree although I appreciate what you're trying to highlight. I read the notes carefully. I often need to log in to a character for a second without having time to go through all of its mail. I am just as concerned about the mails triggered by login as for the ones that aren't. Examples as to why in my previous post.

Just asking out of curiosity.

Won't it be easier for you going through your ingame mails and claiming them with the new *Mail Categories* and *Mail Sorting* introduced with the upcoming chapter, as well as the * "Take All” Function* coming too? With that it should be possible to better handle ingame mails, even if you will only log in for a short time.

Sometimes, sorting makes things more complicated. Honestly I would rather zos implement different mail boxes for each category that have different pools. Rather than one box with categories that I can't manage myself.

SilverBride

Ilumia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

I think that's inconsiderate.

I find it inconsiderate for someone to expect a friend to fill up their mail to store their items.

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

Back when antiquities first dropped and the different zones had motif pages, I bought 500+ treasure maps. If the maps had been able to stack, I'd not have needed to hold them in my mail for two weeks while I worked through them. Same happens when buying maps for new zone farming, the mail just becomes a useful tool to fix their stacking issues.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

...the mail just becomes a useful tool to fix their stacking issues.

Players shouldn't purchase items they don't have storage space for. That is not the purpose of in game mail.

kringled_1

SilverBride wrote: »

Ilumia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

I think that's inconsiderate.

I find it inconsiderate for someone to expect a friend to fill up their mail to store their items.

Most of the time when I've run into this, the intent is that the mails are returned almost immediately, so most of the mail being filled is on the original requestor.

Ilumia

SilverBride wrote: »

Ilumia wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

I think that's inconsiderate.

I find it inconsiderate for someone to expect a friend to fill up their mail to store their items.

Ok fair, if the friend expected you to keep the mail for a while I get declining the request. But returns can always be done even if the person you're returning it to has a full inbox, thankfully

jaws343

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

...the mail just becomes a useful tool to fix their stacking issues.

Players shouldn't purchase items they don't have storage space for. That is not the purpose of in game mail.

But like, you literally cannot store more of the same map. So, are you saying that players should go to a trader, buy Auridon Treasure Map 1. Then go farm the map. Then go back to the trader and buy another copy of Auridon Treasure Map 1? Because that is absurd. It is far more efficient to buy hundreds of maps in a go and farm them. Than bounce back and forth.

SilverBride

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

...the mail just becomes a useful tool to fix their stacking issues.

Players shouldn't purchase items they don't have storage space for. That is not the purpose of in game mail.

But like, you literally cannot store more of the same map. So, are you saying that players should go to a trader, buy Auridon Treasure Map 1. Then go farm the map. Then go back to the trader and buy another copy of Auridon Treasure Map 1? Because that is absurd. It is far more efficient to buy hundreds of maps in a go and farm them. Than bounce back and forth.

I have never purchased maps to farm so I can't answer to that. I just never accumulate more of anything than I have storage space for.

That being said, I do think maps should stack.

JavaRen

SilverBride wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

My reading comprehension is failling, could someone point out to me which part of this impacts the use of mail as storage?

If the mail disappears after 7 days then it's not as secure of a storage method like it was before.

Was anyone using anyof the 7 day groups as storage? I guess I'm stuck on how some use RTS mail as storage, and that seems unaffected.

ArchangelIsraphel

If they plan on doing this, then they absolutely NEED to resolve many of the pain points concerning rewards in the mail system.

Especially Rewards for the Worthy. Make the reward boxes stack so that a PVP player can clear their mail box efficiently! PVP moves fast- we don't have time to stop to clean out when we get going, especially during Whitestrakes Mayhem.

And please, consider making transmutes stack! At least let us stack the stones to 20 or something. Half the reason we're holding onto all this mail is to store transmutes should we need them for gear crafting.

Ilumia

Assuming server storage reduction is the reason for this change, I can see 2 options to achieve this, while mitigating some of the worst consequences for the players:
1) Create some sort of holiday mode that expands the time it takes before mail is deleted. Allow activation twice per year or something like that.
2) A simpler method would be that instead of deleting mail when it expires, it is automatically transferred to your bank inventory, if there is space, and otherwise deleted. This would allow players to prepare for a decently long holiday without missing out on mail.

Btw these suggestions were proposed by my husband who is solution oriented, and always sweetly interested in my hobbies even though he doesn't play anymore

demonology89

As others have stated, ZOS needs to make a lot more coffers and items (I'm looking at you treasure maps) stackable. If you don't want players using mail as storage, then ease the inventory management!!

SilverBride

I don't know if players using mail as storage was one of their motivations or not. But I do know there are some that do this and was speculating if that could have anything to do with it.

wolfie1.0.

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Maybe players using the mail for storage is part of the problem. I had a friend once ask me if he could mail me a bunch of items then return the mail to him when he had room to accept them. I declined.

...the mail just becomes a useful tool to fix their stacking issues.

Players shouldn't purchase items they don't have storage space for. That is not the purpose of in game mail.

But like, you literally cannot store more of the same map. So, are you saying that players should go to a trader, buy Auridon Treasure Map 1. Then go farm the map. Then go back to the trader and buy another copy of Auridon Treasure Map 1? Because that is absurd. It is far more efficient to buy hundreds of maps in a go and farm them. Than bounce back and forth.

I have never purchased maps to farm so I can't answer to that. I just never accumulate more of anything than I have storage space for.

That being said, I do think maps should stack.

If they didn't stack it would be nice to not be limited to a single map of a type per character.

Duplicates are annoyingly difficult to manage.

wolfie1.0.

It does look like they are doubling down. Due to database issues.