ZOS what is YOUR problem with WEREWOLF?! (balance change review)

Jaraal

Yeah it's funny how they want to add all these layers and conditions that may or may not work, yet always have to be calculated... but they're so worried about server load that they have to delete people's mail a few days earlier.

Erickson9610

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah it's funny how they want to add all these layers and conditions that may or may not work, yet always have to be calculated... but they're so worried about server load that they have to delete people's mail a few days earlier.

Honestly, the "Terrified" debuff should just be reworked into a self buff instead. Rather than give enemies the agency to purge the bonus damage, just give Werewolves a boost to their own damage any time they cast Ferocious Roar — make it apply to grouped allies if the concern is that players who use Deafening Roar are missing out. Really, both morphs of Roar should get this bonus.

Then you can apply effects like Stealth Detection or that outline effect from Blood Scion to players who have that buff. And if it also applies to grouped non-Werewolves, then it's a reason to include a Werewolf in your group composition in PvE or PvP.

Panderbander

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Yeah it's funny how they want to add all these layers and conditions that may or may not work, yet always have to be calculated... but they're so worried about server load that they have to delete people's mail a few days earlier.

Honestly, the "Terrified" debuff should just be reworked into a self buff instead. Rather than give enemies the agency to purge the bonus damage, just give Werewolves a boost to their own damage any time they cast Ferocious Roar — make it apply to grouped allies if the concern is that players who use Deafening Roar are missing out. Really, both morphs of Roar should get this bonus.

I have a great idea: using Roar can spawn a tiny werewolf that, after a short delay, leaps at the casting werewolf and explodes, giving a short buff to the casting werewolf's damage! It can be called something like "huntmaster's sacrifice" or something else of the sort, but can only be cast in combat and the tiny werewolf can be stunned, killed, and LOS'd.

huskandhunger

😆

soelslaev

https://images.uesp.net/0/09/ON-hat-Werewolf_Hunter_Hat.jpg

autocookies

A flat 10-15% increase to all damage would probably do what we need. No gimmicks, No jump through hoop X to perform Y. Its not fancy, but it will do what we need at least for PVE as a DPS. We will still be bad at healing ourselves. We will still juggle the double press of pounce, and be upset that we wasted a precious heal and didn't receive major berserk... Still be outraged at how horrendous the first heavy attack is... But at least we would be able to be closer to completive with the other classes in our role as a damage dealer.

As for increasing all damage.. 15% probably isn't even enough yet.. but that is the reason we have pts to test it before it goes live so we don't have it go live in a horrible state.

I feel there is absolutely no reason the best werewolf parser, parsing perfectly should be capped at a 100k - when me a so-so parser can do 100k on both zenkosh and ec-cro support builds.

Wuuffyy

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I think Deafening Roar should have some more utility for PvP scenarios, in addition to making Heavy Attacks taunt while slotted. I'd like to see Deafening Roar be given Detect, which is a valuable effect to have in PvP — that way it's still useful in PvP as well as in PvE.

That, and the Terrified debuff should actually apply a tracking effect to enemies, like the effect Blood Scion has that allows them to see enemies through walls, like what the patch notes heavily implied would happen.

Right. I just remembered as well, the terrified debuff would also be purifiable. So not only is our damage conditional, it's entirely dependent on our enemy.

Our 'howl' tooltips+buffs itself the way it does (for efficiency), because we lack a 'burst move' or even an ultimate (to burst like dawny, incap, leap, etc.). I cannot believe that we are giving up everything to require other wolves and then still falling short of the mark like this.

Terrified shouldn't be cleansable. It was bad enough when enemy players in PvP could just turn away from you to reduce the bonus damage of your Piercing Howl, but this makes it much easier for non-Werewolf enemies to mitigate that extra damage.

Werewolf has no cleanse. The human form has access to the Purge skill in the Support skill line, and can cleanse the Terrified effect. If you're dueling another Werewolf, you might be able to keep them Terrified, but otherwise that 10% extra damage from your Piercing Howl is viable to be completely removed by a competent player in PvP.

Thank you for that, I'm going to add this to the main post/the one right under it and tag you as well!

If anyone is to check this out and reflect, they can't say EVERYTHING wasn't there for them to make the appropriate changes.

ModernSilver1

I'm curious, isn't this the second time this year we were promised buffs on a class and instead got heavy handed nerfs? First Necro with GLS and now Werewolf. Hard to tell if that's deliberate bait and switch or if the balance team is just that incompetent.

Jaraal

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

This point just allow werewolves to have weapon passives it will lower the discussions of werewolf power creep. One bar okansoul can hand weapon passives. Werewolf has very small amount of psssives used in combat.

Is anyone seriously discussing werewolf power creep right now? We have a werewolf power extraction issue, I'll agree with you on that one, if that's what you meant.

Beyond that, if we can't properly balance a 1-bar spec hardly anyone plays that is wildly underperforming, then werewolf is more than just the problem in terms of balancing.

It's mostly jokes above but could you please elaborate on what you meant? (jokes aside)

I find it hard to believe, but there are people who are appalled that Werewolf is receiving any "buffs" at all, even if overall Werewolf is getting nerfed this update. Some people genuinely believe Werewolf is unkillable and overperforming — but I've never seen a dedicated Werewolf player say that Werewolf is overpowered.

I hope Werewolf will be allowed to have weapon passives for build diversity, but it won't solve all of their problems.

Let's take a look at these blanket nerfs from Update 42.

Werewolf

Werewolf Transformation:

This Ultimate and its morphs' Light and Heavy Attacks now deal Bleed Damage, rather than Physical.
These attacks now have a chance to apply their status effect (now Hemorrhaging), with Light Attacks at 3%, partially charged Heavy Attacks at 5%, and fully charged Heavy Attacks at 10%.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

Lacking a second ability bar, those with the beast within them have a harder time interacting with status effects and have fallen a bit further behind in damage production than we'd like. We're throwing them a bone by letting these attacks have a small passive chance to apply them, while making their build paths slightly more diverse with status effect chance being a bit more enticing. This won't be a silver bullet to solve their damage deficits, but werewolves don't like silver.

So now instead of doing direct physical damage, werewolf is now nerfed into doing easily cleansable bleed and status effect damage. Strike one.

Roar: This ability and the Ferocious Roar morph now apply a unique debuff called "Terrified" to enemies they hit for 10 seconds. Terrified doesn't do anything outright other than place a tracking effect on enemies, to help Werewolves mark their prey.

Translation: Terrified doesn't do anything but add another effect to the stack of six effects that procs Mara's Balm's total cleanse, and is yet another heal generated from the same set. Strike two.

Deafening Roar (morph): This morph now grants Major Protection for slotting, rather than Major Prophecy and Savagery. While slotted, it also causes your Heavy Attacks to taunt enemies for 15 seconds.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

Since our fix to Tormentor, some Werewolves have been barking up a storm at the loss of their way to pounce into the tank scene. We're adding some love back to the mix with a simple way to gain a taunt, while simultaneously differentiating the morphs here further for those who wish to lead the pack versus those who just want to go berserk.

Werewolf loses access to Major Breach and Minor Maim. Strike three.

Piercing Howl: This ability and its morphs no longer deal 10% bonus damage to enemies that are facing them, and instead deal 10% bonus damage to enemies that are Terrified.

Howl of Agony (morph):

This morph now adds an additional 10% bonus damage to off balance enemies, stacking up to 20% when they are also Terrified, rather than dealing 25% to enemies that are facing you or are feared.
This morph now also ranks up with cost reduction, rather than ranking up the bonus damage effect.

So instead of doing an instant 25% bonus damage to enemies who are Feared or facing you, this skill requires your target to be off a 15 second Off Balance cooldown, AND have an uncleansed Terrified effect on them to do ANY bonus damage. Strike four.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

We've heard the howling from Werewolf players that have been struggling to engage with these abilities' bonus effects, so we're changing things up to allow for more interaction between PvE and PvP playstyles, while simultaneously adding more reasons to use all of your Werewolf abilities, or work together with other Werewolves to set the pack up for success.

Translation: We know you've been struggling to apply bonus effects, so we're going to make the bonus effects even more convoluted to apply, even more conditional, and much easier for enemies to discard/avoid.

In summary: this is probably the worst set of werewolf nerfs since Wolfhunter was revoked.

IncultaWolf

Jaraal wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

This point just allow werewolves to have weapon passives it will lower the discussions of werewolf power creep. One bar okansoul can hand weapon passives. Werewolf has very small amount of psssives used in combat.

Is anyone seriously discussing werewolf power creep right now? We have a werewolf power extraction issue, I'll agree with you on that one, if that's what you meant.

Beyond that, if we can't properly balance a 1-bar spec hardly anyone plays that is wildly underperforming, then werewolf is more than just the problem in terms of balancing.

It's mostly jokes above but could you please elaborate on what you meant? (jokes aside)

I find it hard to believe, but there are people who are appalled that Werewolf is receiving any "buffs" at all, even if overall Werewolf is getting nerfed this update. Some people genuinely believe Werewolf is unkillable and overperforming — but I've never seen a dedicated Werewolf player say that Werewolf is overpowered.

I hope Werewolf will be allowed to have weapon passives for build diversity, but it won't solve all of their problems.

Let's take a look at these blanket nerfs from Update 42.

Werewolf

Werewolf Transformation:

This Ultimate and its morphs' Light and Heavy Attacks now deal Bleed Damage, rather than Physical.
These attacks now have a chance to apply their status effect (now Hemorrhaging), with Light Attacks at 3%, partially charged Heavy Attacks at 5%, and fully charged Heavy Attacks at 10%.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

Lacking a second ability bar, those with the beast within them have a harder time interacting with status effects and have fallen a bit further behind in damage production than we'd like. We're throwing them a bone by letting these attacks have a small passive chance to apply them, while making their build paths slightly more diverse with status effect chance being a bit more enticing. This won't be a silver bullet to solve their damage deficits, but werewolves don't like silver.

So now instead of doing direct physical damage, werewolf is now nerfed into doing easily cleansable bleed and status effect damage. Strike one.

Roar: This ability and the Ferocious Roar morph now apply a unique debuff called "Terrified" to enemies they hit for 10 seconds. Terrified doesn't do anything outright other than place a tracking effect on enemies, to help Werewolves mark their prey.

Translation: Terrified doesn't do anything but add another effect to the stack of six effects that procs Mara's Balm's total cleanse, and is yet another heal generated from the same set. Strike two.

Deafening Roar (morph): This morph now grants Major Protection for slotting, rather than Major Prophecy and Savagery. While slotted, it also causes your Heavy Attacks to taunt enemies for 15 seconds.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

Since our fix to Tormentor, some Werewolves have been barking up a storm at the loss of their way to pounce into the tank scene. We're adding some love back to the mix with a simple way to gain a taunt, while simultaneously differentiating the morphs here further for those who wish to lead the pack versus those who just want to go berserk.

Werewolf loses access to Major Breach and Minor Maim. Strike three.

Piercing Howl: This ability and its morphs no longer deal 10% bonus damage to enemies that are facing them, and instead deal 10% bonus damage to enemies that are Terrified.

Howl of Agony (morph):

This morph now adds an additional 10% bonus damage to off balance enemies, stacking up to 20% when they are also Terrified, rather than dealing 25% to enemies that are facing you or are feared.
This morph now also ranks up with cost reduction, rather than ranking up the bonus damage effect.

So instead of doing an instant 25% bonus damage to enemies who are Feared or facing you, this skill requires your target to be off a 15 second Off Balance cooldown, AND have an uncleansed Terrified effect on them to do ANY bonus damage. Strike four.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

We've heard the howling from Werewolf players that have been struggling to engage with these abilities' bonus effects, so we're changing things up to allow for more interaction between PvE and PvP playstyles, while simultaneously adding more reasons to use all of your Werewolf abilities, or work together with other Werewolves to set the pack up for success.

Translation: We know you've been struggling to apply bonus effects, so we're going to make the bonus effects even more convoluted to apply, even more conditional, and much easier for enemies to discard/avoid.

In summary: this is probably the worst set of werewolf nerfs since Wolfhunter was revoked.

Werewolf is getting the necromancer treatment, amazing.

Dragonredux

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

This point just allow werewolves to have weapon passives it will lower the discussions of werewolf power creep. One bar okansoul can hand weapon passives. Werewolf has very small amount of psssives used in combat.

Is anyone seriously discussing werewolf power creep right now? We have a werewolf power extraction issue, I'll agree with you on that one, if that's what you meant.

Beyond that, if we can't properly balance a 1-bar spec hardly anyone plays that is wildly underperforming, then werewolf is more than just the problem in terms of balancing.

It's mostly jokes above but could you please elaborate on what you meant? (jokes aside)

I find it hard to believe, but there are people who are appalled that Werewolf is receiving any "buffs" at all, even if overall Werewolf is getting nerfed this update. Some people genuinely believe Werewolf is unkillable and overperforming — but I've never seen a dedicated Werewolf player say that Werewolf is overpowered.

I hope Werewolf will be allowed to have weapon passives for build diversity, but it won't solve all of their problems.

Let's take a look at these blanket nerfs from Update 42.

Werewolf

Werewolf Transformation:

This Ultimate and its morphs' Light and Heavy Attacks now deal Bleed Damage, rather than Physical.
These attacks now have a chance to apply their status effect (now Hemorrhaging), with Light Attacks at 3%, partially charged Heavy Attacks at 5%, and fully charged Heavy Attacks at 10%.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

Lacking a second ability bar, those with the beast within them have a harder time interacting with status effects and have fallen a bit further behind in damage production than we'd like. We're throwing them a bone by letting these attacks have a small passive chance to apply them, while making their build paths slightly more diverse with status effect chance being a bit more enticing. This won't be a silver bullet to solve their damage deficits, but werewolves don't like silver.

So now instead of doing direct physical damage, werewolf is now nerfed into doing easily cleansable bleed and status effect damage. Strike one.

Roar: This ability and the Ferocious Roar morph now apply a unique debuff called "Terrified" to enemies they hit for 10 seconds. Terrified doesn't do anything outright other than place a tracking effect on enemies, to help Werewolves mark their prey.

Translation: Terrified doesn't do anything but add another effect to the stack of six effects that procs Mara's Balm's total cleanse, and is yet another heal generated from the same set. Strike two.

Deafening Roar (morph): This morph now grants Major Protection for slotting, rather than Major Prophecy and Savagery. While slotted, it also causes your Heavy Attacks to taunt enemies for 15 seconds.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

Since our fix to Tormentor, some Werewolves have been barking up a storm at the loss of their way to pounce into the tank scene. We're adding some love back to the mix with a simple way to gain a taunt, while simultaneously differentiating the morphs here further for those who wish to lead the pack versus those who just want to go berserk.

Werewolf loses access to Major Breach and Minor Maim. Strike three.

Piercing Howl: This ability and its morphs no longer deal 10% bonus damage to enemies that are facing them, and instead deal 10% bonus damage to enemies that are Terrified.

Howl of Agony (morph):

This morph now adds an additional 10% bonus damage to off balance enemies, stacking up to 20% when they are also Terrified, rather than dealing 25% to enemies that are facing you or are feared.
This morph now also ranks up with cost reduction, rather than ranking up the bonus damage effect.

So instead of doing an instant 25% bonus damage to enemies who are Feared or facing you, this skill requires your target to be off a 15 second Off Balance cooldown, AND have an uncleansed Terrified effect on them to do ANY bonus damage. Strike four.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

We've heard the howling from Werewolf players that have been struggling to engage with these abilities' bonus effects, so we're changing things up to allow for more interaction between PvE and PvP playstyles, while simultaneously adding more reasons to use all of your Werewolf abilities, or work together with other Werewolves to set the pack up for success.

Translation: We know you've been struggling to apply bonus effects, so we're going to make the bonus effects even more convoluted to apply, even more conditional, and much easier for enemies to discard/avoid.

In summary: this is probably the worst set of werewolf nerfs since Wolfhunter was revoked.

Werewolf is getting the necromancer treatment, amazing.

Getting? It was already there.

I cannot understand why it's so hard to design a subclass that have 5 skills max to be somewhat competent in pve and pvp without jumping through hoops.

Erickson9610

Dragonredux wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

This point just allow werewolves to have weapon passives it will lower the discussions of werewolf power creep. One bar okansoul can hand weapon passives. Werewolf has very small amount of psssives used in combat.

Is anyone seriously discussing werewolf power creep right now? We have a werewolf power extraction issue, I'll agree with you on that one, if that's what you meant.

Beyond that, if we can't properly balance a 1-bar spec hardly anyone plays that is wildly underperforming, then werewolf is more than just the problem in terms of balancing.

It's mostly jokes above but could you please elaborate on what you meant? (jokes aside)

I find it hard to believe, but there are people who are appalled that Werewolf is receiving any "buffs" at all, even if overall Werewolf is getting nerfed this update. Some people genuinely believe Werewolf is unkillable and overperforming — but I've never seen a dedicated Werewolf player say that Werewolf is overpowered.

I hope Werewolf will be allowed to have weapon passives for build diversity, but it won't solve all of their problems.

Let's take a look at these blanket nerfs from Update 42.

Werewolf

Werewolf Transformation:

This Ultimate and its morphs' Light and Heavy Attacks now deal Bleed Damage, rather than Physical.
These attacks now have a chance to apply their status effect (now Hemorrhaging), with Light Attacks at 3%, partially charged Heavy Attacks at 5%, and fully charged Heavy Attacks at 10%.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

Lacking a second ability bar, those with the beast within them have a harder time interacting with status effects and have fallen a bit further behind in damage production than we'd like. We're throwing them a bone by letting these attacks have a small passive chance to apply them, while making their build paths slightly more diverse with status effect chance being a bit more enticing. This won't be a silver bullet to solve their damage deficits, but werewolves don't like silver.

So now instead of doing direct physical damage, werewolf is now nerfed into doing easily cleansable bleed and status effect damage. Strike one.

Roar: This ability and the Ferocious Roar morph now apply a unique debuff called "Terrified" to enemies they hit for 10 seconds. Terrified doesn't do anything outright other than place a tracking effect on enemies, to help Werewolves mark their prey.

Translation: Terrified doesn't do anything but add another effect to the stack of six effects that procs Mara's Balm's total cleanse, and is yet another heal generated from the same set. Strike two.

Deafening Roar (morph): This morph now grants Major Protection for slotting, rather than Major Prophecy and Savagery. While slotted, it also causes your Heavy Attacks to taunt enemies for 15 seconds.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

Since our fix to Tormentor, some Werewolves have been barking up a storm at the loss of their way to pounce into the tank scene. We're adding some love back to the mix with a simple way to gain a taunt, while simultaneously differentiating the morphs here further for those who wish to lead the pack versus those who just want to go berserk.

Werewolf loses access to Major Breach and Minor Maim. Strike three.

Piercing Howl: This ability and its morphs no longer deal 10% bonus damage to enemies that are facing them, and instead deal 10% bonus damage to enemies that are Terrified.

Howl of Agony (morph):

This morph now adds an additional 10% bonus damage to off balance enemies, stacking up to 20% when they are also Terrified, rather than dealing 25% to enemies that are facing you or are feared.
This morph now also ranks up with cost reduction, rather than ranking up the bonus damage effect.

So instead of doing an instant 25% bonus damage to enemies who are Feared or facing you, this skill requires your target to be off a 15 second Off Balance cooldown, AND have an uncleansed Terrified effect on them to do ANY bonus damage. Strike four.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

We've heard the howling from Werewolf players that have been struggling to engage with these abilities' bonus effects, so we're changing things up to allow for more interaction between PvE and PvP playstyles, while simultaneously adding more reasons to use all of your Werewolf abilities, or work together with other Werewolves to set the pack up for success.

Translation: We know you've been struggling to apply bonus effects, so we're going to make the bonus effects even more convoluted to apply, even more conditional, and much easier for enemies to discard/avoid.

In summary: this is probably the worst set of werewolf nerfs since Wolfhunter was revoked.

Werewolf is getting the necromancer treatment, amazing.

Getting? It was already there.

I cannot understand why it's so hard to design a subclass that have 5 skills max to be somewhat competent in pve and pvp without jumping through hoops.

The push to force Werewolf damage dealers to use all 5 skills works against the idea that tanks are the ones who should put enemies on crowd control immunity.

ZOS should revert the changes to Piercing Howl and Roar because damage dealers shouldn't be casting a fear ability every 10 seconds in order to maintain optimal DPS.


I'd welcome a 6th skill in the form of a Grimoire that damage dealer Werewolves can swap Roar out with, but the current solution isn't working out.

mb10

Mate I stopped playing years ago because of how badly this game’s combat is balanced. I come to the forums from time to time and I’m always in disbelief that they’re STILL this bad at balancing their game. It’s quite funny at this stage

huskandhunger

remember that time Templar's lost a jab off their jabs and essentially lost 25% damage, well now this is Werewolf's time to get nerfed lol xD

IncultaWolf

mb10 wrote: »

Mate I stopped playing years ago because of how badly this game’s combat is balanced. I come to the forums from time to time and I’m always in disbelief that they’re STILL this bad at balancing their game. It’s quite funny at this stage

It's sad, funny for the people who moved on from the game I'm sure. The last time werewolf could be considered competitive/viable was about 4 years ago during Greymoor.

After they straight up deleted magicka blastbones to do 0 damage recently, I shouldn't be surprised they are nerfing werewolf dps with the intention of "helping" like they did with necromancer. After actually getting on the pts and doing testing/parses, not a single werewolf player I know is happy about these upcoming changes.

Panderbander

It is amazing how quickly after these "buffs" were made that we were forgotten again. I love it. Really warms my heart to see. /s

So uh @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno was the feedback of the five remaining werewolves ever taken into account? I know the team has big, pressing issues to deal with like scribing, but werewolf has been effectively removed from any serious content with these changes as they are and we haven't heard a peep about it after giving evidence-backed feedback.

Erickson9610

We saw major threads about the Scribing Script time investment or the Scribing Oblivion Damage being problems, but those were both addressed. Other resolved problems include the Templar Class Mastery Script, the Scribing DoT component being too weak, and so on.

Players have been giving feedback on the Werewolf changes since week 1 on how badly the changes ruin the playstyle in all aspects of the game, but there haven't been any adjustments to Werewolf aside from a bug fix for the controversial change to Deafening Roar. It seems like if anything, ZOS is doubling down on these unpopular changes.

Is Werewolf feedback being heard? Clearly feedback about Scribing is being considered, but nothing is being done regarding the feedback in the numerous major threads about Werewolf.

IncultaWolf

Erickson9610 wrote: »

We saw major threads about the Scribing Script time investment or the Scribing Oblivion Damage being problems, but those were both addressed. Other resolved problems include the Templar Class Mastery Script, the Scribing DoT component being too weak, and so on.

Players have been giving feedback on the Werewolf changes since week 1 on how badly the changes ruin the playstyle in all aspects of the game, but there haven't been any adjustments to Werewolf aside from a bug fix for the controversial change to Deafening Roar. It seems like if anything, ZOS is doubling down on these unpopular changes.

Is Werewolf feedback being heard? Clearly feedback about Scribing is being considered, but nothing is being done regarding the feedback in the numerous major threads about Werewolf.

No, you're being ignored like necromancer players are. Welcome to the club

sneakymitchell

Should just boost the damage on all the skills by 10% then add something in than minor adjustments.

Erickson9610

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Should just boost the damage on all the skills by 10% then add something in than minor adjustments.

A damage boost would be nice, but that doesn't solve the design problems with the Werewolf skill line — like this new Terrified mechanic.

The Terrified mechanic is put onto Ferocious Roar, the morph for damage dealers, and not put onto Deafening Roar, the morph for tanks. The Terrified mechanic is meant to get Werewolf damage dealers to use all 5 skills in a rotation (Werewolf didn't need to use Roar at all before) and it's excluded from one of the morphs of Roar which splits the Werewolf damage dealer playstyle from the Werewolf tank playstyle in order to reinforce the need to group up together.

And of course, since Terrified was designed to remove the positional requirement that Piercing Howl had before, the primary focus of Terrified has to be to act as a damage buff, but since damage dealers would pick Deafening Roar if it also applied Terrified, ZOS had to remove it from that morph. The Inner Beast skill had this problem, where damage dealers picked a skill that could taunt in order to get bonus damage for their other abilities, but ZOS changed this so that the bonus damage only applied to Inner Beast itself. Applying the same fix for Terrified would effectively remove +10% bonus damage from Piercing Howl.


The alternative had its own problems. The positional requirement for the +25% bonus damage to Piercing Howl meant that you had to stand in front of the boss in PvE, or that in PvP, the enemy could just turn away from you to mitigate the bonus damage. Nowadays, you get a very small uptime of the bonus damage for Howl of Agony (+10% when the enemy is Off Balance, which is active for 7 seconds with a 15 second cooldown, or a 31.82% uptime, and +10% when the enemy is Terrified, which requires Ferocious Roar, the damage dealer morph of an AoE fear ability, to be cast once every 10 seconds) and the Terrified effect can be purged in PvP, so the overall bonus damage is nerfed from 25% to 20% and the overall uptime of the bonus damage is nerfed from a maximum of 100% to a maximum of 31.82%.

Was this taken into consideration when designing the Terrified effect? Why doesn't Terrified do anything more than serve as a purgeable damage buff, when the original patch notes implied it would be a tracking effect? Why are damage dealer werewolves required to fear enemies? Werewolf is getting severely nerfed this update (I lost 7k DPS compared to Live!), and there's no way of knowing whether the team at ZOS knows about these issues. @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno

Wuuffyy

I think we may be doomed... I just took a look at the latest patch notes; it's not looking great.

IncultaWolf

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I think we may be doomed... I just took a look at the latest patch notes; it's not looking great.

You THINK?

huskandhunger

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I think we may be doomed... I just took a look at the latest patch notes; it's not looking great.

I've always felt that the PTS notes we get in the first week tend to be what will go live, things rarely change once they put them in motion. I think update 43 will be just housing stuff so it will be important to create many threads sharing each of our perspectives with the upcoming changes going into the later year of update 44 into December before the long snooze where no changes happen.

sneakymitchell

Look in the end ZoS doesn’t like 1 bar build even if you are forced in playstyle as werewolf. Thinking it could be cool and lore story wise.You can say the same for vampire with people using undeath passive which should be removed from the game cause how broken it can be. Since now they are removing additive defense and making it multiple. Reason why there been tanky meta in pvp. There so many different elements to make things additives.


For werewolf we mostly choose pack leader for the weapon damage boost and mitigation. While staying in form longer cause there isn’t pack of werewolf.

I remember how back then during greymoar both morphs were great. But zos nerf the bleed from beserker and remove bleed all together unless you go beserker morph. Least now you can apply hemorrhage from the light and heavy attacks. But it isn’t going cut it when you remove more damage sources for werewolf.

Bring back the light attack bleed is great and buff the bleed of beserker

Erickson9610

I've made many threads about Werewolf this PTS — perhaps more than I ought to have made. There's a lot of really cool features like Scribing and Skill Styling that would benefit Werewolf tremendously, and I even made mock-up images of what Werewolf Grimoires or Skill Styles could look like, for when/if they're implemented down the line. I also went on the PTS and tested the Werewolf combat changes, providing parse screenshots and general feedback about what those changes will do.

I wish I had some acknowledgement from ZOS that my feedback was seen to justify the effort I put into trying to communicate to them this PTS. I know the same handful of players have seen my threads, but they're not the people I'm trying to reach when I make posts on the PTS section of the forums.

Skoomah

Bottom line is that:
- Werewolf is less fun to play
- Werewolf damage is being reduced
- Werewolf set selection is reduced
- Werewolf skill selection is pick your poison, because we get less power no matter what combination of skills we choose
- Werewolf is extremely weak in solo play
- Werewolf is far behind every class and playstyle for every role

Skoomah

Really, whenever I play my Dragonknight, Arcanist, or Warden... It’s just way more fun to play. I don’t have to work so hard for kills. I’m way more useful to my teammates when I build for a group build in ways a werewolf cannot.

The only reason I like playing my werewolf is to RP as a beast ripping people’s heads off. With the changes next patch, the last sliver between enough damage to kill stuff in PvP will be gone. I already have to work extra hard to be okay competitive on the Live servers.

This is really depressing. I wish werewolf was just left alone. Whenever werewolf is modified, it’s been one nerf after another for years now. And honestly, the community still ignorantly thinks werewolf is somehow competitive. It’s not at all. These changes makes werewolf really just for beginners going forward.

Red99

Werewolf need a good heal over time like vigor+minor resolve like everyone have or it is unplayable in pvp

Panderbander

I'm pretty sure this is just a ploy to sell more werewolf cures and vampire bites in the crown store at this point.

C_Inside

At least we now know necros aren't the only ones getting special treatment. These changes just feel like someone on the combat team thought one day "Hey let's make werewolves do bleeds!". Sadly since no one from the dev team plays werewolf there was nobody there to explain what side effects that would cause. And since the devs are way too stubborn to admit they effed up we're now getting nonsensical changes like this pushed to live despite all the feedback.

Maybe you guys can create a "master" werewolf thread in General and just refuse to let it die until someone at ZOS addresses your concerns like what necros are doing. Perhaps with both player bases spamming General we might get some attention eh? If templars and PVE nightblades join in on the fun as well we might even have @ZOS_Kevin or @ZOS_GinaBruno bless us with a reply!