Hardened Ward heal making it to live is a mistake and needs to be changed

Desiato · May 2

StaticWave wrote: »

Also, Ward is the only ability right now that allows you to just ignore core combat mechanics if you have a decent tooltip. You don’t need to roll dodge or block when 1v1ing on a Sorc. Every other class has to if they don’t want to die. It was fine back then without the burst heal, but now it isn’t. If you can’t see the problem created by having a big shield + a decent heal in 1 GCD, then nobody can discuss balancing issues with you.

No one with a clue truly believes the change is OK. They're just like the result and don't want to lose it. It was exactly the same in 2014 when the original DK was over the top OP, but many of those who played it would never admit it even though it was obvious.

It's true in every game when something is OP.

It's so funny watching all the mediocre fotm players playing sorc these days. At least an OP nb takes a little more ability IMO.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

StaticWave · May 2

Desiato wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Also, Ward is the only ability right now that allows you to just ignore core combat mechanics if you have a decent tooltip. You don’t need to roll dodge or block when 1v1ing on a Sorc. Every other class has to if they don’t want to die. It was fine back then without the burst heal, but now it isn’t. If you can’t see the problem created by having a big shield + a decent heal in 1 GCD, then nobody can discuss balancing issues with you.

No one with a clue truly believes the change is OK. They're just like the result and don't want to lose it. It was exactly the same in 2014 when the original DK was over the top OP, but many of those who played it would never admit it even though it was obvious.

It's true in every game when something is OP.

It's so funny watching all the mediocre fotm players playing sorc these days. At least an OP nb takes a little more ability IMO.

[snip]

To be honest with you, I'm ok if someone admits they know an ability/set is overperforming but want it to stay. At least it's an honest opinion.

What I think isn't ok is knowing an ability is overperforming but denying that it is, or refusing to understand why it's overperforming lol. There are a couple ppl like that in this thread and it's hard to have an honest discussion with them, especially when they try to use tactics to make their argument sound better.

I know I'm guilty of that too, but I specifically only use those tactics against those people. Fight fire with fire basically. Anyone who's open to an honest discussion will have an honest argument from me.

[edited to remove quote]

xylena_lazarow · May 2

StaticWave wrote: »

Also, Ward is the only ability right now that allows you to just ignore core combat mechanics if you have a decent tooltip. You don’t need to roll dodge or block when 1v1ing on a Sorc. Every other class has to if they don’t want to die. It was fine back then without the burst heal, but now it isn’t. If you can’t see the problem created by having a big shield + a decent heal in 1 GCD, then nobody can discuss balancing issues with you.

They see this, but they think it's a good thing, because they can now stalemate fights they used to get smoked in. But it's really only a narrow band of mid-tier Sorc players being "helped" here (the ones who think a stalemate is a win), casual Sorcs are as clueless and fragile as ever, and competitive Sorcs all seem to agree Ward is horrible for competitive play.

StaticWave · May 2

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Also, Ward is the only ability right now that allows you to just ignore core combat mechanics if you have a decent tooltip. You don’t need to roll dodge or block when 1v1ing on a Sorc. Every other class has to if they don’t want to die. It was fine back then without the burst heal, but now it isn’t. If you can’t see the problem created by having a big shield + a decent heal in 1 GCD, then nobody can discuss balancing issues with you.

They see this, but they think it's a good thing, because they can now stalemate fights they used to get smoked in. But it's really only a narrow band of mid-tier Sorc players being "helped" here (the ones who think a stalemate is a win), casual Sorcs are as clueless and fragile as ever, and competitive Sorcs all seem to agree Ward is horrible for competitive play.

Last patch I dueled a few above average and top tier magsorcs. The above average ones were mid diff, and the top tier ones were high diff. This patch, the above average ones are high diff, and the top tier ones are borderline impossible to kill. All because of Ward change and 10% extra max mag. The same magsorcs who I usually won against, are now difficult to kill and can 100-0 me in 2 GCDs. The same magsorcs who I had difficulty fighting, are now nigh unkillable.

The matchup completely yoyoed from being fairly balanced to one-sided in their favor. I have a lot of experience in dueling, and I still struggle against this new iteration of magsorc. Now imagine the newbies and average players having to go against these magsorcs lol. There’s absolutely ZERO chance they are winning.

Bushido2513 · May 2

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Also, Ward is the only ability right now that allows you to just ignore core combat mechanics if you have a decent tooltip. You don’t need to roll dodge or block when 1v1ing on a Sorc. Every other class has to if they don’t want to die. It was fine back then without the burst heal, but now it isn’t. If you can’t see the problem created by having a big shield + a decent heal in 1 GCD, then nobody can discuss balancing issues with you.

They see this, but they think it's a good thing, because they can now stalemate fights they used to get smoked in. But it's really only a narrow band of mid-tier Sorc players being "helped" here (the ones who think a stalemate is a win), casual Sorcs are as clueless and fragile as ever, and competitive Sorcs all seem to agree Ward is horrible for competitive play.

ESO and competitive in the same thought process is just as relevant as casuals being happy with this change.

Any competition in this game is purely in the head of someone playing the game because it's not actually supported by the game itself.

For anyone that hasn't noticed yet, this game has become a game that caters to casuals. In that light and with that understanding I can see why the ward changes make sense especially given what's coming in the future.

I don't think this is the best change they could have done by far but I do think it probably works well for the target audience, casual players.

xylena_lazarow · May 3

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I don't think this is the best change they could have done by far but I do think it probably works well for the target audience, casual players.

Let's try to avoid semantics over what "casual" means, Hardened Ward isn't doing anything for the hard cast frag guy who runs 28k max mag Mad Tinkerer and blames all his deaths on macros, it's buffing the mid tier or better player who knows enough to put together a coherent 50k+ max mag stack build and the basics of piloting it.

StaticWave · May 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I don't think this is the best change they could have done by far but I do think it probably works well for the target audience, casual players.

Let's try to avoid semantics over what "casual" means, Hardened Ward isn't doing anything for the hard cast frag guy who runs 28k max mag Mad Tinkerer and blames all his deaths on macros, it's buffing the mid tier or better player who knows enough to put together a coherent 50k+ max mag stack build and the basics of piloting it.

Right. When an overperforming ability/set is introduced, it usually goes like this:

Newbie => still dies
Anything higher than average => can punch above their own weight

Average players can now compete with above average players. Above average players can now compete with decent players. Decent players can now compete with top tier players. Top tier players are almost unkillable

If we're using newbie players as an argument then it doesn't matter. They're going to die regardless of what they put on. For everything else, balance issue applies. If a skill/set is allowing average or better players to punch above their own weight, then don't you think there's a problem?

Bushido2513 · May 4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I don't think this is the best change they could have done by far but I do think it probably works well for the target audience, casual players.

Let's try to avoid semantics over what "casual" means, Hardened Ward isn't doing anything for the hard cast frag guy who runs 28k max mag Mad Tinkerer and blames all his deaths on macros, it's buffing the mid tier or better player who knows enough to put together a coherent 50k+ max mag stack build and the basics of piloting it.

Honestly I count most people playing this game as casuals because as I said this game doesn't take itself seriously in a competitive sense so there's no real way to know the overall difference between player levels in a standardized way.

But ok let's say it this way, to the general population in gvg I don't see this change as a really big issue. It won't help someone that was always going to die but it will help general population against some of the current and soon to come threats.

Bushido2513 · May 4

StaticWave wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

I don't think this is the best change they could have done by far but I do think it probably works well for the target audience, casual players.

Let's try to avoid semantics over what "casual" means, Hardened Ward isn't doing anything for the hard cast frag guy who runs 28k max mag Mad Tinkerer and blames all his deaths on macros, it's buffing the mid tier or better player who knows enough to put together a coherent 50k+ max mag stack build and the basics of piloting it.

Right. When an overperforming ability/set is introduced, it usually goes like this:

Newbie => still dies
Anything higher than average => can punch above their own weight

Average players can now compete with above average players. Above average players can now compete with decent players. Decent players can now compete with top tier players. Top tier players are almost unkillable

If we're using newbie players as an argument then it doesn't matter. They're going to die regardless of what they put on. For everything else, balance issue applies. If a skill/set is allowing average or better players to punch above their own weight, then don't you think there's a problem?

This argument works if there aren't already outliers that allow players to do this on other classes.

And no I'm not saying don't do anything but how about we tackle the issues in the order they were introduced vs targeting the most recent issue?

Not to mention ZOS is clearly ready to double down vs reverse this change which might actually be needed due to what's coming.

Gonna need all the heals you can get when oblivion damage with execution scaling is common

Vaqual · May 4

I absolutely don't get why you are trying to relativate clear balancing issues by basically saying that some players are not good enough to understand how unbalanced PvP is and therefore think the imbalances are acceptable. What kind of game experience does a premise like this promise? How do you define casuals? Most casuals I know play the things they like and are punished for it, because a few classes/sets/skills just pack disproportionate levels of power. The players that actually benefit from cheesy builds are petty FOTM kids that are neither interested in actually becoming good at the game and winning in a dignified way, nor do they care about the roleplay aspects of build design. The level of depth PvP has under these circumstances is so pathetic that some browser games offer more enjoyable PvP experiences.
I am not saying that PvP is beyond repair, but this perspective on player effort and class balance that you have been bringing forward, despite all the good arguments that have been posted, is surely the fastest way to get rid of all serious players. Be it that they are serious about the RPG aspect or the PvP aspect, be it that they are serious now or in a few months when they have figured out the game. It is just bad.

Offering other spells through spell crafting (the system with variety as selling point) only to be pigeonholed into another OP pick, to cancel out balancing messes, is clearly not going to make for a much more enjoyable experience. That is a non-argument.

IV_Deity · May 4

PvP has become stale as now there are many sorcs who are damn near unkillable unless you dog pile them. The sad part is they think they're good.

Hardened ward needs to be reverted back to its previous state. Whoever thought of it should be demoted to janitorial duties.

Gilvoth · May 4

IV_Deity wrote: »

PvP has become stale as now there are many sorcs who are damn near unkillable unless you dog pile them. The sad part is they think they're good.

Hardened ward needs to be reverted back to its previous state. Whoever thought of it should be demoted to janitorial duties.

it has been this way since beta.
does eso favor sorcerers in pvp? i think only the developers can answer that.

Gilvoth · May 4

Bring back the Strength and original design that the shield breaker set was created with.
shield breaker set should never have been changed to what it is now.

it will solve this problem with sorcerers and make pvp healthy if put the shield breaker set back to its original state.

Mansquito · May 4

The class has everything now. Unkillable in 1v1 on my plar, has significantly more pressure, better burst, better resource pools, better manoeuvrability, better sustain, better survivability.

[snip]

Same old ZOS, they either need something into oblivion or turn something into god tier, there's rarely anything in between.

So boring.

[edited for baiting]

Bushido2513 · May 4

Vaqual wrote: »

I absolutely don't get why you are trying to relativate clear balancing issues by basically saying that some players are not good enough to understand how unbalanced PvP is and therefore think the imbalances are acceptable. What kind of game experience does a premise like this promise? How do you define casuals? Most casuals I know play the things they like and are punished for it, because a few classes/sets/skills just pack disproportionate levels of power. The players that actually benefit from cheesy builds are petty FOTM kids that are neither interested in actually becoming good at the game and winning in a dignified way, nor do they care about the roleplay aspects of build design. The level of depth PvP has under these circumstances is so pathetic that some browser games offer more enjoyable PvP experiences.
I am not saying that PvP is beyond repair, but this perspective on player effort and class balance that you have been bringing forward, despite all the good arguments that have been posted, is surely the fastest way to get rid of all serious players. Be it that they are serious about the RPG aspect or the PvP aspect, be it that they are serious now or in a few months when they have figured out the game. It is just bad.

Offering other spells through spell crafting (the system with variety as selling point) only to be pigeonholed into another OP pick, to cancel out balancing messes, is clearly not going to make for a much more enjoyable experience. That is a non-argument.

You have some valid points and I think it's important to understand that while also looking at the idea that this game is still profitable as is. People still play it and still give money to ZOS. Are people voting with their wallets or just more accepting than most in this thread?

StaticWave · May 5

IV_Deity wrote: »

PvP has become stale as now there are many sorcs who are damn near unkillable unless you dog pile them. The sad part is they think they're good.

Hardened ward needs to be reverted back to its previous state. Whoever thought of it should be demoted to janitorial duties.

Mansquito wrote: »

The class has everything now. Unkillable in 1v1 on my plar, has significantly more pressure, better burst, better resource pools, better manoeuvrability, better sustain, better survivability.

[snip]

Same old ZOS, they either need something into oblivion or turn something into god tier, there's rarely anything in between.

So boring.

The crazy part is some ppl like me who tested Ward on PTS tried to bring up the concern and got shot down by ppl who don’t even test the changes 🤣🤣

[edited to remove quote]

StaticWave · May 5

Vaqual wrote: »

I absolutely don't get why you are trying to relativate clear balancing issues by basically saying that some players are not good enough to understand how unbalanced PvP is and therefore think the imbalances are acceptable. What kind of game experience does a premise like this promise? How do you define casuals? Most casuals I know play the things they like and are punished for it, because a few classes/sets/skills just pack disproportionate levels of power. The players that actually benefit from cheesy builds are petty FOTM kids that are neither interested in actually becoming good at the game and winning in a dignified way, nor do they care about the roleplay aspects of build design. The level of depth PvP has under these circumstances is so pathetic that some browser games offer more enjoyable PvP experiences.
I am not saying that PvP is beyond repair, but this perspective on player effort and class balance that you have been bringing forward, despite all the good arguments that have been posted, is surely the fastest way to get rid of all serious players. Be it that they are serious about the RPG aspect or the PvP aspect, be it that they are serious now or in a few months when they have figured out the game. It is just bad.

Offering other spells through spell crafting (the system with variety as selling point) only to be pigeonholed into another OP pick, to cancel out balancing messes, is clearly not going to make for a much more enjoyable experience. That is a non-argument.

Yea, imagine a new PvPer eager to learn about PvP in the game, only to realize a few months into PvP that there's so much imbalance, and he leaves. Kinda hard to retain PvP players if we treat everything as casual lol.

StaticWave · May 5

Mansquito wrote: »

The class has everything now. Unkillable in 1v1 on my plar, has significantly more pressure, better burst, better resource pools, better manoeuvrability, better sustain, better survivability.

[snip]

Same old ZOS, they either need something into oblivion or turn something into god tier, there's rarely anything in between.

So boring.

Yesterday I watched a PvP streamer duel a magsorc. Screenshot below:

You can look at the top left corner and see the CMX live report. The streamer was in a full proc DK with 5.6k DPS. The magsorc was in Crafty/Wretched. The fight stalemated after 10+ minutes. I don't think I have ever seen a full light armor class tank a 5.5k DPS full proc DK for 10+ minutes and not break a sweat until this iteration of magsorc. It's pathetic that people actually defend this ability.

[edited to remove quote]

StaticWave · May 5

For the people saying that Wield Soul's oblivion damage will affect Sorc next patch, this is what Pelican has to say about it:

For the people who may not understand what Pelican is talking about, a typical magsorc build with 50k max mag will have around 13-14k shield and 3k heal in PvP. The burst heal mechanic will cancel the oblivion damage mechanic from Wield Soul, and since there is a 3s cooldown for Wield Soul's oblivion mechanic, a Sorc can use Ward 3 times within that window and heal back to full HP. Basically, Sorc is not affected by it as badly as other classes.

This is also my experience when dueling magsorcs on the live server with an infused 2h and oblivion enchant. My oblivion enchant damage is practically negated by the burst heal, and since there is a 2.5s cooldown for my glyph, the Sorc is usually unaffected.

StaticWave · May 5

Here is @IncultaWolf friend who is new to PvP and he also agrees Ward is busted:

Keep in mind, his friend is playing at a low MMR, which is correspondent with his skill level.

Bushido2513 · May 5

StaticWave wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

I absolutely don't get why you are trying to relativate clear balancing issues by basically saying that some players are not good enough to understand how unbalanced PvP is and therefore think the imbalances are acceptable. What kind of game experience does a premise like this promise? How do you define casuals? Most casuals I know play the things they like and are punished for it, because a few classes/sets/skills just pack disproportionate levels of power. The players that actually benefit from cheesy builds are petty FOTM kids that are neither interested in actually becoming good at the game and winning in a dignified way, nor do they care about the roleplay aspects of build design. The level of depth PvP has under these circumstances is so pathetic that some browser games offer more enjoyable PvP experiences.
I am not saying that PvP is beyond repair, but this perspective on player effort and class balance that you have been bringing forward, despite all the good arguments that have been posted, is surely the fastest way to get rid of all serious players. Be it that they are serious about the RPG aspect or the PvP aspect, be it that they are serious now or in a few months when they have figured out the game. It is just bad.

Offering other spells through spell crafting (the system with variety as selling point) only to be pigeonholed into another OP pick, to cancel out balancing messes, is clearly not going to make for a much more enjoyable experience. That is a non-argument.

Yea, imagine a new PvPer eager to learn about PvP in the game, only to realize a few months into PvP that there's so much imbalance, and he leaves. Kinda hard to retain PvP players if we treat everything as casual lol.

If they play solo yes they will quickly see imbalance. If they group up, likely not so much. Also the goal of ZOS seems to be general retention of the mass of players while making the game as easy as possible to get into.

Retention of long term players and especially long term pvp players seems to have not been a priority for somek time now.

Bushido2513 · May 5

StaticWave wrote: »

For the people saying that Wield Soul's oblivion damage will affect Sorc next patch, this is what Pelican has to say about it:

For the people who may not understand what Pelican is talking about, a typical magsorc build with 50k max mag will have around 13-14k shield and 3k heal in PvP. The burst heal mechanic will cancel the oblivion damage mechanic from Wield Soul, and since there is a 3s cooldown for Wield Soul's oblivion mechanic, a Sorc can use Ward 3 times within that window and heal back to full HP. Basically, Sorc is not affected by it as badly as other classes.

This is also my experience when dueling magsorcs on the live server with an infused 2h and oblivion enchant. My oblivion enchant damage is practically negated by the burst heal, and since there is a 2.5s cooldown for my glyph, the Sorc is usually unaffected.

I don't think the idea was meant to be an exact answer for this 1v1 scenario but maybe just an answer for gvg where you could better focus down other players as a team.

xylena_lazarow · May 5

StaticWave wrote: »

Yea, imagine a new PvPer eager to learn about PvP in the game, only to realize a few months into PvP that there's so much imbalance, and he leaves. Kinda hard to retain PvP players if we treat everything as casual lol.

Imbalances like this heavily favor the meta player, widening the gap between meta builds and unoptimized casual builds. If anything, casual players and builds are more dependent on a well balanced PvP game to have any chance at all to succeed, while hardcore competitive players can easily drop whatever they're doing to go abuse the new broken thing.

One angle I'm not sure has been covered is the way stacking max mag is not only a buff to both defense and offense, but also a massive sustain buff, your 50k max mag pool lasts twice as long as the 25k mag pools everyone else is running. You simply cannot say that about stacking pen or wd/sd, only max mag sorcs efficiently get 3 entire build pillars from 1 stat.

StaticWave · May 5

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Yea, imagine a new PvPer eager to learn about PvP in the game, only to realize a few months into PvP that there's so much imbalance, and he leaves. Kinda hard to retain PvP players if we treat everything as casual lol.

Imbalances like this heavily favor the meta player, widening the gap between meta builds and unoptimized casual builds. If anything, casual players and builds are more dependent on a well balanced PvP game to have any chance at all to succeed, while hardcore competitive players can easily drop whatever they're doing to go abuse the new broken thing.

One angle I'm not sure has been covered is the way stacking max mag is not only a buff to both defense and offense, but also a massive sustain buff, your 50k max mag pool lasts twice as long as the 25k mag pools everyone else is running. You simply cannot say that about stacking pen or wd/sd, only max mag sorcs efficiently get 3 entire build pillars from 1 stat.

Yea I’ve already covered that in an earlier comment when someone said stacking max mag isn’t as good as stacking spell damage. Due to the fact that stacking max mag provides effective sustain, max HP shield Sorc stacking spell damage is not as good as max mag. You can stack enough weapon dmg on HP sorc to have similar damage tooltips as a max mag sorc, but your mag pool is going to be 24-25k top. 3-4 shield casts and you’re gassed out, not to mention the Streaks you did before that. Magsorc doesn’t have this issue at all. That’s why I have to heavy attack a lot more on my HP sorc whereas a magsorc can spam shield for a decent amount of time before they gas out.

Bushido2513 · May 5

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Yea, imagine a new PvPer eager to learn about PvP in the game, only to realize a few months into PvP that there's so much imbalance, and he leaves. Kinda hard to retain PvP players if we treat everything as casual lol.

Imbalances like this heavily favor the meta player, widening the gap between meta builds and unoptimized casual builds. If anything, casual players and builds are more dependent on a well balanced PvP game to have any chance at all to succeed, while hardcore competitive players can easily drop whatever they're doing to go abuse the new broken thing.

One angle I'm not sure has been covered is the way stacking max mag is not only a buff to both defense and offense, but also a massive sustain buff, your 50k max mag pool lasts twice as long as the 25k mag pools everyone else is running. You simply cannot say that about stacking pen or wd/sd, only max mag sorcs efficiently get 3 entire build pillars from 1 stat.

Well to be fair you won't gas out as fast but your recovery can potentially be delayed. It can also come down to playstyle. Some simply don't like or know how to work with less recovery just like some are better at using raw damage numbers combined with specific well timed attack rotations.

I see what you're getting at, I just wanted to put it out there that resource management preferences also play a part

Caecus0 · May 6

I find it as a massive cope that the justification for how strong the new Hardened Ward is now is because of upcoming changes in the expansion.

Here's an idea: maybe they should made the changes at the same time. Now Sorcs are going to get free reign in PvP in the meantime.

Jsmalls · May 6

StaticWave wrote: »

For the people saying that Wield Soul's oblivion damage will affect Sorc next patch, this is what Pelican has to say about it:

For the people who may not understand what Pelican is talking about, a typical magsorc build with 50k max mag will have around 13-14k shield and 3k heal in PvP. The burst heal mechanic will cancel the oblivion damage mechanic from Wield Soul, and since there is a 3s cooldown for Wield Soul's oblivion mechanic, a Sorc can use Ward 3 times within that window and heal back to full HP. Basically, Sorc is not affected by it as badly as other classes.

This is also my experience when dueling magsorcs on the live server with an infused 2h and oblivion enchant. My oblivion enchant damage is practically negated by the burst heal, and since there is a 2.5s cooldown for my glyph, the Sorc is usually unaffected.

This is only considering 1v1s. While yes I agree that the oblivion damage script isn't a death sentence to a Sorc in a 1v1, in Open world this quickly changes (and I'm not saying it's a death sentence open world).

If you're using a Shield at let's say 20% of your health (6k), each oblivion proc will be doing ~4500 damage to you. Any class that uses a burst heal as their main defensive "heal' would stand a better chance against let's say two players using the scribe against them than a Sorc would.

And same goes for if you pop a shield at super low health like 5% (1500). You will die next patch against this ability, where as someone with a true burst heal like Coagulating or Healthy offering will survive.

I just think it's disingenuous to target 1v1 in this scenario, as considering the 3 second cooldown it's not as relevant as open world. Think old shield breaker but 3-5x stronger... Sorc would literally be unplayable with traditional ward if it wasn't for the small burst heal come the scribing patch.

And just wait for the new NB gankers next patch. Incap, Tarnished, Mage Scribe ability with AoE and direct damage, oblivion soul burst. Whatcha gonna do about that? Die... LoL.

StaticWave · May 6

Jsmalls wrote: »

This is only considering 1v1s. While yes I agree that the oblivion damage script isn't a death sentence to a Sorc in a 1v1, in Open world this quickly changes (and I'm not saying it's a death sentence open world).

If you're using a Shield at let's say 20% of your health (6k), each oblivion proc will be doing ~4500 damage to you. Any class that uses a burst heal as their main defensive "heal' would stand a better chance against let's say two players using the scribe against them than a Sorc would.

Block healing won't fair any better. You're still taking DoT pressure which goes through block, and 2 players doing 5k oblivion damage through block will kill that player.

It's definitely not disingenuous if you consider the circumstances. Or we can also acknowledge that Sorc and NB currently have the best mobility in the game with Hurricane + Streak and Cloak. At the very worst, they can just Streak or Cloak away, but pretty much every other class won't have a reliable escape option.

I mean, you’ve literally proved that yourself when we fought in a BG game. You on your 50k+ mag sorc with Hurricane, being able to tank enough damage in a 1v1 and still has the ability to Streak away at high speeds. I can’t do that on a DK or Warden or Necro. I have to tank the damage and eventually die.

That will be the case for next patch. At worst, a Sorc can just streak away if they’re fighting several Oblivion dmg users. Not so much for other classes.

StaticWave · May 6

Jsmalls wrote: »

If you're using a Shield at let's say 20% of your health (6k), each oblivion proc will be doing ~4500 damage to you. Any class that uses a burst heal as their main defensive "heal' would stand a better chance against let's say two players using the scribe against them than a Sorc would.

And same goes for if you pop a shield at super low health like 5% (1500). You will die next patch against this ability, where as someone with a true burst heal like Coagulating or Healthy offering will survive.

And you can always counter that by slotting Vigor over Bound Aegis. You will still have a decent shield and burst heal tooltip (12k shield and 6-7k burst heal), while also having Vigor, Blood Magic, and Crit Surge. Sorc is going to fair much better vs Oblivion damage than other classes due to Ward's mechanic.

It's pretty simple to test. Have 2 players apply 4+ DoTs and heavy attack you with Knight Slayer. Use a modified shield build with Vigor for 1st test and burst heal build for 2nd test. You'll see why the shield build is better defensively.

Bushido2513 · May 6

StaticWave wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

If you're using a Shield at let's say 20% of your health (6k), each oblivion proc will be doing ~4500 damage to you. Any class that uses a burst heal as their main defensive "heal' would stand a better chance against let's say two players using the scribe against them than a Sorc would.

And same goes for if you pop a shield at super low health like 5% (1500). You will die next patch against this ability, where as someone with a true burst heal like Coagulating or Healthy offering will survive.

And you can always counter that by slotting Vigor over Bound Aegis. You will still have a decent shield and burst heal tooltip (12k shield and 6-7k burst heal), while also having Vigor, Blood Magic, and Crit Surge. Sorc is going to fair much better vs Oblivion damage than other classes due to Ward's mechanic.

It's pretty simple to test. Have 2 players apply 4+ DoTs and heavy attack you with Knight Slayer. Use a modified shield build with Vigor for 1st test and burst heal build for 2nd test. You'll see why the shield build is better defensively.

Then you'd have to test what happens if you add more players doing damage because that's what happens in gvg. Whoever is there to be targeted will eventually get targeted. That's just the ebb and flow of gvg no matter how damage resistant an opponent is.