How to fix PVP in one fell swoop.

Bushido2513

Galeriano wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

4. The entire BATTLEGROUND were getting nuked by this player, I think he had upwards of 63 kills in the match.

Those 1shot builds fall apart in high MMR battlegrounds. They would be killed as soon as they leave spawn.

Were you using stealth detection pots?

While 63 is a high number I will say that 1 shot builds can still be very effective in high MMR depending on composite of all teams.

The one doing the 1 shotting could be getting heals and buffs, the match type could be something where teams are just doing the objective or where the chaos ball is putting them in easy kill range etc.

I've been on both sides where team composition makes me able to get a ton of kills and also where the other team are now getting high kills, all while in high MMR

Not arterial burst gankers though. Getting heals in their case is casuing them to loose their burst because they need to stay under 50% HP to have auto crit during arterial burst spam. And 63 kills in high MMR is not just a high number it's a number that is not achievable. It's low MMR exclusive value.

Arterial builds would have a hard time for sure but I was speaking more of a no proc hard hitting nbs.

I know of a player that regularly had an amazing I'd with a 20k health NB with a 28k spec bow tooltip according to them. This person was really just amazingly good with their damage combo and shade so the bird could be focused into two tapping people. They even got me when I had shields and over 35k resistance with all impen.

Highest I've seen in high MMR was 50ish kills so 63 isn't impossible.

High MMR doesn't always mean you're in the room with the coldest sweatiest players in the game for a few reasons.

So I've group queued with friends that aren't as good at me and where I feel it's just a normal match they feel like it's much higher pressure than their used to so sometimes you can have lower MMR players in high MMR.

Also sometimes a dynamic can develop where your team and the other team pick on the third team and the third team doesn't care and just keeps on coming out but they objective is something like relic so with nobody playing it the timer runs out.

Here's the thing I personally at this point have played tens of thousands of bgs, maybe more and I've seen rare numbers in kills that happen for different reasons.

But let's take the feeling out of it and just say mathematically is it even n possible , a kill every 14 seconds. The answer is yes so we can debate for fun but it could happen and over enough sample size is definitely possible so that just is what it is.

Also you could say well these players wouldn't just like up to be executed but that's where I speak of team composition and random dynamics. It's quite possible to be in a match where you're just getting a lot of killing blows and not that you're actually dealing 30k damage every 14 seconds.

Nb has ranged execute, spec bow and could go for multiple kills with tether and spin to win and still survive if played correctly.

So while mathematically likely a very rare occurrence it in is still quite possible.

CrazyKitty

First and most important fix PvP needs is to at least double the pop cap to 120/faction, and that would still be too low, but at least it would be a start.

Galeriano

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

4. The entire BATTLEGROUND were getting nuked by this player, I think he had upwards of 63 kills in the match.

Those 1shot builds fall apart in high MMR battlegrounds. They would be killed as soon as they leave spawn.

Were you using stealth detection pots?

While 63 is a high number I will say that 1 shot builds can still be very effective in high MMR depending on composite of all teams.

The one doing the 1 shotting could be getting heals and buffs, the match type could be something where teams are just doing the objective or where the chaos ball is putting them in easy kill range etc.

I've been on both sides where team composition makes me able to get a ton of kills and also where the other team are now getting high kills, all while in high MMR

Not arterial burst gankers though. Getting heals in their case is casuing them to loose their burst because they need to stay under 50% HP to have auto crit during arterial burst spam. And 63 kills in high MMR is not just a high number it's a number that is not achievable. It's low MMR exclusive value.

Arterial builds would have a hard time for sure but I was speaking more of a no proc hard hitting nbs.

I know of a player that regularly had an amazing I'd with a 20k health NB with a 28k spec bow tooltip according to them. This person was really just amazingly good with their damage combo and shade so the bird could be focused into two tapping people. They even got me when I had shields and over 35k resistance with all impen.

Highest I've seen in high MMR was 50ish kills so 63 isn't impossible.

High MMR doesn't always mean you're in the room with the coldest sweatiest players in the game for a few reasons.

So I've group queued with friends that aren't as good at me and where I feel it's just a normal match they feel like it's much higher pressure than their used to so sometimes you can have lower MMR players in high MMR.

Also sometimes a dynamic can develop where your team and the other team pick on the third team and the third team doesn't care and just keeps on coming out but they objective is something like relic so with nobody playing it the timer runs out.

Here's the thing I personally at this point have played tens of thousands of bgs, maybe more and I've seen rare numbers in kills that happen for different reasons.

But let's take the feeling out of it and just say mathematically is it even n possible , a kill every 14 seconds. The answer is yes so we can debate for fun but it could happen and over enough sample size is definitely possible so that just is what it is.

Also you could say well these players wouldn't just like up to be executed but that's where I speak of team composition and random dynamics. It's quite possible to be in a match where you're just getting a lot of killing blows and not that you're actually dealing 30k damage every 14 seconds.

Nb has ranged execute, spec bow and could go for multiple kills with tether and spin to win and still survive if played correctly.

So while mathematically likely a very rare occurrence it in is still quite possible.

Well this thread is about arterial burst ganker.

I mean yeah good nightblades can one shot even good players but they won't be doing it like a machine gun without any preparation by just running forward and deleting everything on their way like it happened in this case.

I highly doubt that this 50ish kills was in high MMR and You would be suprised how much more effort it takes to go from 50ish to 60ish kills in BG. Most propably it was a match with 2-3 people from high MMR and rest being just mid/low MMR. Matches like that happen.

High MMR usually means people atleast have proper gear, food buffs and know about core combat mechanics which stops them from continously being run over by a single player in 2 seconds. If You have high MMR on Your character but You're in a match where people had like 15 deaths than this wasn't a high MMR match You were just queued with mid/low MMR players due to shortage of high MMR people.

Yes due to how MMR system works if a player with noticably higher MMR than rest of the group joins a team than MMR of that group gets higher but that works in both ways and that player with noticably higher MMR will often also be queued against teams that have players with way lower skill level.

With dynamic like that it's even more impossible for someone to get 60+ kills since now it's 8v4 and to get 60+ kills You need to go in opposite direction.

I also played thousands of BG and I can say with full certainity that in high MMR match, where by high MMR I mean all players in it having high MMR You will never see 60+ kills unless it's some staged match where 12 people joined at the same time.

Fact that it's mathematically possible doesn't mean it's realistically possible in high MMR. You can rarely get it against very low MMR people and TTK just goes up with MMR increase. Let's assume it takes a player on average 10 seconds after death to respawn and reengage in fight so You need to be able to run over through every enemy in that match in 4 seconds or less. And every more tanky enemy that will take longer than 4 seconds to kill will make that average time to kill on all the other enemies even shorter. For example even if You have 1 enemy that will take 10 seconds to kill Your average TTK on all 7 other enemies is now 1,9 second so You need to basically just jump on them and kill them instantly without even performing a combo or they just need to continously die to passive AoE while You're focusing someone else. You get two players that take more than 4 seconds on average to kill and that average for remaining 6 people goes even lowewr. Things like that don't happen in high MMR.

Thing is You won't be able to kill steal 63 kills. If You have allies in Your team that are good enough to blast quickly through enemies they will be getting some of the kills. Strong allies make it even harder to get that high score.

All that tricks still won't let You get 63 kills against highr MMR players. LIke I said previously they would have to literally die to whatever You're doing without reacting to it.

Including human factor to the calculations it's impossible to get 63/0 in a high MMR match. It's mathematically possible for a large solid object like a ball, human etc to phase through a brick wall, have You ever heard of that actually happening?

xHotguy6pack

Or just completely remove CP and damage proc sets from pvp as they have no place. At the very least remove damage proc sets. Zos made the best patch ever when they removed proc from cyrodiil. Showed which classes and cp passives over/underperformed. Also showed which players were actually good at pvp and not carried by proc sets. Not to mention it was actually enjoyable not being on life support from 5 or 6 proc sets whenever you get in a fight. Example of the type I'm talking about would be procs that do damage like way of fire or vateshran destro.

Major_Toughness

xHotguy6pack wrote: »

Or just completely remove CP and damage proc sets from pvp as they have no place. At the very least remove damage proc sets. Zos made the best patch ever when they removed proc from cyrodiil. Showed which classes and cp passives over/underperformed. Also showed which players were actually good at pvp and not carried by proc sets. Not to mention it was actually enjoyable not being on life support from 5 or 6 proc sets whenever you get in a fight. Example of the type I'm talking about would be procs that do damage like way of fire or vateshran destro.

The current no proc rules are ass. Two decent players will never kill eachother 1v1 because there's not enough damage tools to do so.

The only thing that matters in current Ravenwatch campaign is numbers. You have more numbers you win. Skill has very little factor.

Bushido2513

Galeriano wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

4. The entire BATTLEGROUND were getting nuked by this player, I think he had upwards of 63 kills in the match.

Those 1shot builds fall apart in high MMR battlegrounds. They would be killed as soon as they leave spawn.

Were you using stealth detection pots?

While 63 is a high number I will say that 1 shot builds can still be very effective in high MMR depending on composite of all teams.

The one doing the 1 shotting could be getting heals and buffs, the match type could be something where teams are just doing the objective or where the chaos ball is putting them in easy kill range etc.

I've been on both sides where team composition makes me able to get a ton of kills and also where the other team are now getting high kills, all while in high MMR

Not arterial burst gankers though. Getting heals in their case is casuing them to loose their burst because they need to stay under 50% HP to have auto crit during arterial burst spam. And 63 kills in high MMR is not just a high number it's a number that is not achievable. It's low MMR exclusive value.

Arterial builds would have a hard time for sure but I was speaking more of a no proc hard hitting nbs.

I know of a player that regularly had an amazing I'd with a 20k health NB with a 28k spec bow tooltip according to them. This person was really just amazingly good with their damage combo and shade so the bird could be focused into two tapping people. They even got me when I had shields and over 35k resistance with all impen.

Highest I've seen in high MMR was 50ish kills so 63 isn't impossible.

High MMR doesn't always mean you're in the room with the coldest sweatiest players in the game for a few reasons.

So I've group queued with friends that aren't as good at me and where I feel it's just a normal match they feel like it's much higher pressure than their used to so sometimes you can have lower MMR players in high MMR.

Also sometimes a dynamic can develop where your team and the other team pick on the third team and the third team doesn't care and just keeps on coming out but they objective is something like relic so with nobody playing it the timer runs out.

Here's the thing I personally at this point have played tens of thousands of bgs, maybe more and I've seen rare numbers in kills that happen for different reasons.

But let's take the feeling out of it and just say mathematically is it even n possible , a kill every 14 seconds. The answer is yes so we can debate for fun but it could happen and over enough sample size is definitely possible so that just is what it is.

Also you could say well these players wouldn't just like up to be executed but that's where I speak of team composition and random dynamics. It's quite possible to be in a match where you're just getting a lot of killing blows and not that you're actually dealing 30k damage every 14 seconds.

Nb has ranged execute, spec bow and could go for multiple kills with tether and spin to win and still survive if played correctly.

So while mathematically likely a very rare occurrence it in is still quite possible.

Well this thread is about arterial burst ganker.

I mean yeah good nightblades can one shot even good players but they won't be doing it like a machine gun without any preparation by just running forward and deleting everything on their way like it happened in this case.

I highly doubt that this 50ish kills was in high MMR and You would be suprised how much more effort it takes to go from 50ish to 60ish kills in BG. Most propably it was a match with 2-3 people from high MMR and rest being just mid/low MMR. Matches like that happen.

High MMR usually means people atleast have proper gear, food buffs and know about core combat mechanics which stops them from continously being run over by a single player in 2 seconds. If You have high MMR on Your character but You're in a match where people had like 15 deaths than this wasn't a high MMR match You were just queued with mid/low MMR players due to shortage of high MMR people.

Yes due to how MMR system works if a player with noticably higher MMR than rest of the group joins a team than MMR of that group gets higher but that works in both ways and that player with noticably higher MMR will often also be queued against teams that have players with way lower skill level.

With dynamic like that it's even more impossible for someone to get 60+ kills since now it's 8v4 and to get 60+ kills You need to go in opposite direction.

I also played thousands of BG and I can say with full certainity that in high MMR match, where by high MMR I mean all players in it having high MMR You will never see 60+ kills unless it's some staged match where 12 people joined at the same time.

Fact that it's mathematically possible doesn't mean it's realistically possible in high MMR. You can rarely get it against very low MMR people and TTK just goes up with MMR increase. Let's assume it takes a player on average 10 seconds after death to respawn and reengage in fight so You need to be able to run over through every enemy in that match in 4 seconds or less. And every more tanky enemy that will take longer than 4 seconds to kill will make that average time to kill on all the other enemies even shorter. For example even if You have 1 enemy that will take 10 seconds to kill Your average TTK on all 7 other enemies is now 1,9 second so You need to basically just jump on them and kill them instantly without even performing a combo or they just need to continously die to passive AoE while You're focusing someone else. You get two players that take more than 4 seconds on average to kill and that average for remaining 6 people goes even lowewr. Things like that don't happen in high MMR.

Thing is You won't be able to kill steal 63 kills. If You have allies in Your team that are good enough to blast quickly through enemies they will be getting some of the kills. Strong allies make it even harder to get that high score.

All that tricks still won't let You get 63 kills against highr MMR players. LIke I said previously they would have to literally die to whatever You're doing without reacting to it.

Including human factor to the calculations it's impossible to get 63/0 in a high MMR match. It's mathematically possible for a large solid object like a ball, human etc to phase through a brick wall, have You ever heard of that actually happening?

Sorry I missed the arterial post and yes you are correct if we define a high MMR match as one where everyone is high MMR then it would likely be very hard for an arterial build to hot those numbers.

I go with the definition of high MMR match based on your own rank since we can't really know everyone else's rank.

So if someone says high MMR I can only really say they joined a match on a high MMR character which as you pointed out can lead to all kinds of pairings.

SandandStars

if it’s not a deathmatch, the k-d ratio is kind of meaningless

some players are trying to play objectives while others are focused solely on kills

theres always the low score high kills player who get significantly less kills and more deaths when its deathmatch

Bushido2513

SandandStars wrote: »

if it’s not a deathmatch, the k-d ratio is kind of meaningless

some players are trying to play objectives while others are focused solely on kills

theres always the low score high kills player who get significantly less kills and more deaths when its deathmatch

It's not as significant that's for sure but not meaningless in ops example because actually this might be worse if you're trying to play the objective and someone is two tapping people at a high rate.

It's all part of the game as is but I also know I play for kills so I'm trying to see it from the perspective of someone that's trying to play objective or that isn't as kill focused.

Iriidius

DrNukenstein wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

There are plenty of counters to being ganked/nbs in general, this was noted in an above comment and there are some lengthy discussion posts about that very subject...and about cc's etc....what do you think a pvp environment would look like without them? Then snowball effect of things/builds that would become brokenly op without them and being cried about for nerfs would be overwhelming.

It's true. Stealth one shots keep the squishies in line in ways that other playstyles can't. If it wasn't the stealth gankers, it would be the mag sorcs with 17k hp, 50k mag, and as much damage as they can fit in their build.

Mag sorcs with 17k hp and 50k mag would not be a problem today even without stealth oneshots, because stacking magicka became very unpopular after ZoS replaced 0-12% magicka by race and 20% magicka by cp with flat stat boni, magicka is not viable as alternative to weapon damage anymore, only a faction of magsorcs is still stacking max magicka because they dont have a good burst heal to replace shields and even they stack 30k hp now. When magsorcs could survive with 17k hp, other classes also could also survive with much lower hp than now, spectral bows weren‘t hitting for 30k, purifying lights/pots not for 18k(u32-35), dawnbreakers not for 12k and there werent as many undodgeable und unblockable skills and stuns.

Freilauftomate wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Remove nightblades from the game.
[...] This is the only way to solve the stealth gameplay issue.

No, and please stop trying to remove things from this game! "The stealth gameplay" is not an "issue".

When a sniper hits you, you should be dead before you can hear a sound. You think real snipers send a warning letter to their targets and then need 3 headshots to kill someone?

And it's not like gankers and snipers can run into a zerg and just oneshot everyone in this game.

There are pros and cons to every playstyle, please stop trying to reduce ESO to naked fist fights. Thank you.

A real sniper also has to aim himself, calculate the influence of gravity, wind, rain usw and the movement of the target and when the target moves in a way the sniper didn‘t calculate, he misses the shot, while an ESO sniper just has to press the key for snipe skill, the arrow auto aims for him, changes direction and even flies threw walls when the target moves. Also a ESO sniper can finish his 3rd snipe before a real sniper can shoot a second time, because reloading takes a few seconds and thanks to desync, lag and connection often all 3 snipes hit at the same millisecond before they are shown on the targets screen. And why are snipe skills the player doesnt even aim compared to headshots, the in popular opinion best aimed most precise an deadly shots? A sniper hitting non vital body parts might really need 3 shots. Actually a real sniper doesn‘t aim for the head but for the centre of mass except the target has bullet proof vest(but usually it is not bullet proof against snipers). And even when sniper can kill you without giving you a chance to react doesn‘t mean it is a fun mechanic in a game.

Freilauftomate wrote: »

I am not sure what kinds of games you are playing and designing, but almost every PvP game i ever played had snipers, gankers or other forms of high risk high damage builds in it. As long as they have to sacrifice survivability etc., and have to hide and wait for their moment to strike, i think this playstyle has the same right to exist as all the others. No matter if it's a "one shot build" or a bomber.

ESO PvP was designed to be a group game. Massive battles in the big alliance war in Cyrodiil. Hundreds of players and 24 player groups. You can buff each other to be stronger and more tanky. Your friends can heal you when you need it. (For example when you get stuck in a stun.) You can help each other out and focus on specific tasks. Like someone putting up a ram, while someone else is using flare, while someone else is using siege shield, another one is purging, healing, giving speed buffs, killing the guards, negating enemy negates, while a sneaky ganker is guarding your camp/ burning enemy camps... It would be impossible to do all of that on your own. The ram doesn't even work with only 1 or two players standing in it. You can't look at this game without reminding yourself that it's a group game. Even if you are an overpowered Rambo/youtuber/streamer/genius.

Almost all problems can be solved better in a group. You get ganked? No problem, someone will revive you. We even have a champion point and a set for faster revive. And let's not forget about the Necro Ulti that can resurrect up to 3 allies at once. Your whole group gets zerged? You can revive in a camp and try again. Your alliance gets zerged down all day? Form a ballgroup and farm the zerg. Ballgroups are a problem? Bomb and gank their players with some friends to shake things up. Gankers and bombers become a problem? Start using more detecting abilities and pay extra attention in situations where they might want to hit you. Dying doesn't necessarily mean you did something wrong, you can never feel 100% safe in a warzone.

Now you could try to change the whole game to make it fit better for solo players, but i don't think that's possible without sacrificing the group feeling in the big war, and messing up the entire game. Solo players will just keep asking for changes, until playing in a group doesn't make any sense anymore. Unfortunately ESO has already changed way too much. Group size has been reduced to 12, max population (players allowed in Cyrodiil at the same time) keeps shrinking and reaching a point where the whole concept of a big war is starting to crumble. There are barely any guilds and groups left and not much going on on the map anymore. But that's not the fault of the concept, it's a consequence of performance issues and bugs.

Battlegrounds came 3 years (?) after ESO was released, and i think it was a big mistake to release (and keep) Bgs in this unfinished state. You can't have the big alliance war in a room of 12 players... I find it very strange to have Bg weekends, because almost no PvP player i know likes to play them. Maybe they are already working on updating Bgs and will give us more options to make it more playable for solo players and smaller groups. Who knows.

You said you don't want to play in groups, so you miss out on a lot of what ESO has to offer.

One big problem with ESO is that it doesn't really give you all the information you need to be successful in PvP. You have to find the info somewhere else, or let someone show you. If you join a guild to play (and train) with others, you might be surprised by how much you didn't know already. Even the best players can always learn something new. (Like dealing with gankers.) I wouldn't give up on PvP if i were you. It might be different than other games, but it can be extremely entertaining and rewarding. When it works. (I got kicked from the game 10 times last week, and i am starting to have bigger performance issues again...)

Noone in this thread asked to change the whole game to make it fit better for solo players but you still tell everyone that ESO is a group game and even want to remove battlegrounds because they give PvP players an alternative to alliance war althought still with 4man groups and not solo, but probably it is not really group pvp if you can queue solo and get group created by game insteat of having to search for players and create one yourself. Necrotech_Master only mentioned that he plays solo himself and Pixie said he doesn‘t play Cyrodiil because he doesn‘t find group without comms, so he even accepts not beeing able to play Cyro without group, but you still have to scare everyone with your nightmare of solo
player apocalypse and blame all problems on solo play.

ZoS confirmed in an interview that there would be also duells in Cyrodiil and the Cinematic shows a duell of the EP Nord DK versus the DC Breton NB cinematic characters.
A few years ago the game was actually much more solo friendly, but ZoS added much more undodgeable and unblockable dmg and allowed Zerglings to build to be unkillable by one player and made the game much more solo player unfriendly. A lot of former 1vXers that used to troll groups without ever dying now deny entering Cyrodiil without a group. So actually the PvP is moving more and more away from solo PvP and towards group PvP despite despite low population numbers and cap. Reducing maximum group size to 12 killed PuG groups and made a lot of PvP players unable to PvP practically excluding them from PvP.

Heals_With_Orbs

Theres a reason why NB's are so popular.

It's because it's easy kills and a cowardly playstyle, and whos going to not find that appealing?

In my view it shouldnt be called PVP, when the half the population is hiding behind a rock.

It used to be a high risk high reward playstyle but because of broken sets, over powered mythics and that dreadful undeath passive that everyone keeps complaining about, even if you use detect pots etc, they disappear in flash.

So I dont agree with anyone who defends this garbage. NB's are OP and the issue isnt always because other player are weak, its because theres a handful of factors to contribute to making it an unfair playstyle

Such a terrible game design, and no wonder they are used in ballgroups

Its also no wonder why Cyro is so stale, tank meta and nbs dot com toxic rubbish

JustLovely

Heals_With_Orbs wrote: »

Theres a reason why NB's are so popular.

It's because it's easy kills and a cowardly playstyle, and whos going to not find that appealing?

In my view it shouldnt be called PVP, when the half the population is hiding behind a rock.

It used to be a high risk high reward playstyle but because of broken sets, over powered mythics and that dreadful undeath passive that everyone keeps complaining about, even if you use detect pots etc, they disappear in flash.

So I dont agree with anyone who defends this garbage. NB's are OP and the issue isnt always because other player are weak, its because theres a handful of factors to contribute to making it an unfair playstyle

Such a terrible game design, and no wonder they are used in ballgroups

Its also no wonder why Cyro is so stale, tank meta and nbs dot com toxic rubbish

I don't find the NB gank while invisible appealing at all. I find it so unsporting that I won't do it. A game design that allows a player to be invisible for more than a 2-3 seconds is just bad game design IMO.

SandandStars

Ive also always found nb the most unappealing class for the reasons you mention @JustLovely , so now that they are grossly overpowered and ruining pvp, it’s just not worth the time anymore

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Remove nightblades from the game.

Remove Dark Convergence, Poisons & nerf Vampires, should have been your proposal if you wanted to truly to make PVP better.

Writing a dumb comment "Remove nightblades from the game", you know is not possible and just trolling.

Vaqual

SandandStars wrote: »

Ive also always found nb the most unappealing class for the reasons you mention @JustLovely , so now that they are grossly overpowered and ruining pvp, it’s just not worth the time anymore

You can play NB without invis.

Bushido2513

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Remove nightblades from the game.

Remove Dark Convergence, Poisons & nerf Vampires, should have been your proposal if you wanted to truly to make PVP better.

Writing a dumb comment "Remove nightblades from the game", you know is not possible and just trolling.

Maybe it's dumb maybe it's not but reading it literally with no understanding of what the point of view might be doesn't help.

Also something not being possible doesn't negate the person's ability to have an opinion and expressing that. I know people that literally want xyz removed from the game. Yeah it's probably never going to happen but sometimes you can say things in frustration and see if people feel the same.

I don't really want anything removed, just rebalanced.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Bushido2513 wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Remove nightblades from the game.

Remove Dark Convergence, Poisons & nerf Vampires, should have been your proposal if you wanted to truly to make PVP better.

Writing a dumb comment "Remove nightblades from the game", you know is not possible and just trolling.

Maybe it's dumb maybe it's not but reading it literally with no understanding of what the point of view might be doesn't help.

Also something not being possible doesn't negate the person's ability to have an opinion and expressing that. I know people that literally want xyz removed from the game. Yeah it's probably never going to happen but sometimes you can say things in frustration and see if people feel the same.

I don't really want anything removed, just rebalanced.

You will find that NB is not the problem.

The combination of what I mentioned are in conjunction with the class.

If you pop to ESO subreddit you will see a video with one NB using Rune (from Mages guild) and Dark Convergence, killing 30 players in 2 seconds.
None of the skills involved are related to NB, anyone could have done it.

Bushido2513

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Remove nightblades from the game.

Remove Dark Convergence, Poisons & nerf Vampires, should have been your proposal if you wanted to truly to make PVP better.

Writing a dumb comment "Remove nightblades from the game", you know is not possible and just trolling.

Maybe it's dumb maybe it's not but reading it literally with no understanding of what the point of view might be doesn't help.

Also something not being possible doesn't negate the person's ability to have an opinion and expressing that. I know people that literally want xyz removed from the game. Yeah it's probably never going to happen but sometimes you can say things in frustration and see if people feel the same.

I don't really want anything removed, just rebalanced.

You will find that NB is not the problem.

The combination of what I mentioned are in conjunction with the class.

If you pop to ESO subreddit you will see a video with one NB using Rune (from Mages guild) and Dark Convergence, killing 30 players in 2 seconds.
None of the skills involved are related to NB, anyone could have done it.

That's not really the nightblade people have. Any class can bomb at this point, that's fine. Being able to go in and out of stealth with high crit damage and auto crit tends to rub people the wrong way.

Not saying I agree but who else do you have to run special skills, pots, etc to deal with? That's if they even work well when you deploy them.

Then you have this person that attacks you and then resets the fight if it doesn't go their way.

It can all be annoying at times. The game is what it is. I just don't blame anyone for getting annoyed and wanting to have some aspects of the game straight up removed even if it isn't likely to happen

xHotguy6pack

Major_Toughness wrote: »

The current no proc rules are ass. Two decent players will never kill eachother 1v1 because there's not enough damage tools to do so.

The only thing that matters in current Ravenwatch campaign is numbers. You have more numbers you win. Skill has very little factor.

Absolutely wrong. I keep seeing people say this. I have over 20k pen and 6k spell damage. I play on console and PC and there has yet to be any player I have encountered that I haven't been able to kill in ravenwatch even if they are good. You have to build correctly and actually know your burst combo. Not spam skills and hope for the best.

Numbers do not equal a win. There have been multiple times me and a buddy have fought 2v5+ and won. It's not that hard you just need to actually be good at the game. No proc cyrodiil takes more skill which is why nobody plays it cause they can't crutch on the game playing for them.

SandandStars

Vaqual wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

Ive also always found nb the most unappealing class for the reasons you mention @JustLovely , so now that they are grossly overpowered and ruining pvp, it’s just not worth the time anymore

You can play NB without invis.

Vaqual wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

Ive also always found nb the most unappealing class for the reasons you mention @JustLovely , so now that they are grossly overpowered and ruining pvp, it’s just not worth the time anymore

You can play NB without invis.

Oh I know. And it’s still ahead of every other class. That’s why plenty of ppl do it. 😉

Bushido2513

SandandStars wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

Ive also always found nb the most unappealing class for the reasons you mention @JustLovely , so now that they are grossly overpowered and ruining pvp, it’s just not worth the time anymore

You can play NB without invis.

Vaqual wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

Ive also always found nb the most unappealing class for the reasons you mention @JustLovely , so now that they are grossly overpowered and ruining pvp, it’s just not worth the time anymore

You can play NB without invis.

Oh I know. And it’s still ahead of every other class. That’s why plenty of ppl do it. 😉

I wouldn't say plenty. After the most recent changes and even before, it was just a no brainier to run cloak. At this point you passively and actively lose a lot by not running it so I'd say most everyone is even if they aren't all crutching on it.

BulletMagnetX

As someone who has spent six years trying to develop a gank Nightblade and watch the needle rise from 0 to -1 in that time, I would very much like to know how this is done.

MEBengalsFan2001

Remove armor from the game. No more proc sets.

mook-eb16_ESO

don't get stunned from stealth= Radiant Magelight

edward_frigidhands

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

@Pixiepumpkin IMHO I see issues with your crit rss, your max stam and your regens.... with those low stam and Regen numbers stunning you most likely leads to a kill. And that is not even getting into crit rss...blocking, Dodge rolling etc are all pretty good counters to a bursty nb (or any class) and stam management is kinda key for that

EDIT: Its a HA build. I queued up specifically on a tankier build because my wife was getting 1 shot by the same nightblade. We got into a match against him and he killed me in 2 seconds from steath with 3 attacks. That is why my regen etc are so low.

That aside, none of which affect my OP outside of crit resist.
No one should be getting 3 shot inside of 2 seconds with 37k armor and 30k health.

My stamina regen could be 30,000 or zero and the net result would be the same.

I wonder what exactly he was running. Perhaps oblivion damage (knight slayer with HA) or a very high amount of penetration. Both would ignore armor to a great degree. The fact that the player had so many kills makes me think there was an offensive build with the ability to ignore armor.

divnyi

I wonder what people even mean when they say 20k pen. Balorgh at 500? Two 5pc sets dedicated to pen? How else do you get pen that high?

Amottica

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah ill add to what others have said and that while i find being ganked is annoying, its literally no different than playing a first person shooter and being sniped

the only difference in here is that the "sniper" has to be right up on you to "knife" you instead of nuking your head from halfway across the map, so there is a lot more risk to them

Difference this is an MMORPG, not an FPS. The game mechanics are completely different. You are comparing apples to cheese.

But also, in an FPS, you can 1 shot the sniper as well with assault or medic carbines.

actually no, there is not a lot of difference, the vast majority of gankers are actually very weak

been many a times ive countered the ganker and ended up killing them (mostly because of quick reaction time), theres only a few times i had no chance to react which again i see as something that takes a lot of skill, not a playstyle that should be eliminated

ive also countered bombers before too, getting a magnum shot off on them right before they are able to hit a lot of players (like a NB trying to use siphon ult), it interrupts the ult, knocks them down, and 9/10 times they ended up dead

gank builds are the squishiest builds in pvp and heavily rely on stealth, if you negate the stealth part or counter them before they can do their combo, they will drop like a fly

if your running a build of 35k+ max hp then its very unlikely most gankers will even try to target you

This is so true. I have rarely been killed by a ganker. They tend to hit quickly and do little damage to a decently geared PvP player.

I often hunt gankers when I run solo. It is nice they let me know they are there by attacking me and I start looking for them and pull them out of stealth. Dead ganker.

Against unevenly matched players I can see it happening.

In the thread, the edited OP talks about not getting one shot with stealth combos. One shot means killing (or dying) from one attack. Then it talks about getting killed by three attacks with a build that has low stamina and crit resist

We do not know what hit them and for how much, if it was a crit, and if there were debuffs involved. There is a lot we do not know.