Not happy with the new daedric prince

FelisCatus · January 19

She's basically just a slightly different version of hermaeus mora, like how boethiah and mephala are fairly similar.

Kendaric · January 19

I hope we get to banish her eventually and never have to deal with her again, the established daedric princes are already enough. She is/was interesting in concept, but I'm not interested in yet another daedric prince.

And the last thing I want is to see her added to the older TES games retroactively or appear in TES 6.

Syldras · January 19

Kendaric wrote: »

I hope we get to banish her eventually and never have to deal with her again, the established daedric princes are already enough. She is/was interesting in concept, but I'm not interested in yet another daedric prince.
And the last thing I want is to see her added to the older TES games retroactively or appear in TES 6.

Banning her again is most probably what this whole story is about, not to conflict with the other TES games already published.

FelisCatus · January 19

Syldras wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

I hope we get to banish her eventually and never have to deal with her again, the established daedric princes are already enough. She is/was interesting in concept, but I'm not interested in yet another daedric prince.
And the last thing I want is to see her added to the older TES games retroactively or appear in TES 6.

Banning her again is most probably what this whole story is about, not to conflict with the other TES games already published.

I wouldn't mind so much if she was a one of those lesser/minor daedra like the Fa-Nuit-Hen from Maelstrom arena but to introduce a whole new prince who is already too similar to Mora is just strange.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · January 19

Jyggalag wants his "crystal" and being worrisome to other princes theme back. ...Are we gonna turn her into Jyggalag?

I also found her look...bland, to say the least. And having this big end of a story spoiler just smacked down as a big sticker on the coming chapter is a weird and kinda bad choice.

Lugaldu · January 19

Above all, I'm not thrilled that she was mentioned... because I haven't finished playing the main storyline of Necrom yet...

NotaDaedraWorshipper · January 19

Lugaldu wrote: »

Above all, I'm not thrilled that she was mentioned... because I haven't finished playing the main storyline of Necrom yet...

Same. I had been spoiled about her existence beforehand, but I'm sure many has not, so this must have been even stranger for them.

OtarTheMad · January 19

I am curious where this story will go and how it’ll end, like super curious, because the way it was portrayed Ithelia is out and she is a Daedric Prince and the world knows now. She has her minions and shardborn and just has to gain her powers and memories.

So I am curious how this will go because you can’t kill a daedra or a Prince so she can be defeated but will still be alive. Mora can erase everyone’s memories again but Torsvard will still exist so it’s just setting this up again. They could have Ithelia re-established as a Daedric Prince and in TES 6 Bethesda could have her involved and just have her say something like “getting involved in those other events wasn’t my path or the path of my worshippers.”

Danikat · January 19

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Jyggalag wants his "crystal" and being worrisome to other princes theme back. ...Are we gonna turn her into Jyggalag?

I also found her look...bland, to say the least. And having this big end of a story spoiler just smacked down as a big sticker on the coming chapter is a weird and kinda bad choice.

Don't they normally end one chapter with a hint about the story and location of the next release? I thought it was expected at this point.

umagon · January 19

I don’t like her myself she seems to be just a knock off version of Padomay. I mean what does she do? Spread random change everywhere; which is exactly what Padomay is. And Padomay already has a physical form which is the Adversary.

Syldras · January 19

OtarTheMad wrote: »

So I am curious how this will go because you can’t kill a daedra or a Prince so she can be defeated but will still be alive. Mora can erase everyone’s memories again but Torsvard will still exist so it’s just setting this up again.

Maybe some kind of permanent imprisonment, also for Torvesard. Actually it has been done to daedra before, as killing them would be useless because of their ability to rematerialize.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

They could have Ithelia re-established as a Daedric Prince and in TES 6 Bethesda could have her involved and just have her say something like “getting involved in those other events wasn’t my path or the path of my worshippers.”

Unlikely, as witnesses of her appearance would tell their ancestors about it; also, there would be written records of some kind. Maybe ZOS will just throw in some "Boom! Everything is now back as it was before" magic event at the end of the chapter. Not the first time either, if you remember the people of Markarth. Which wasn't exactly a good idea, but that's a different topic.

Danikat wrote: »

Don't they normally end one chapter with a hint about the story and location of the next release? I thought it was expected at this point.

In this case, there was no hint on Skingrad (there was on in the Markarth dlc, though, a remark made by Lyris). The problem mentioned is, that there are people who haven't finished Necrom yet, or not even played it at all so far. And the return of Ithelia was the one big mystery of that chapter, which is now spoiled for these players.

Kendaric · January 19

Syldras wrote: »

Unlikely, as witnesses of her appearance would tell their ancestors about it; also, there would be written records of some kind. Maybe ZOS will just throw in some "Boom! Everything is now back as it was before" magic event at the end of the chapter. Not the first time either, if you remember the people of Markarth. Which wasn't exactly a good idea, but that's a different topic.

Now I'm curious... I played through Markath (defeated Lady Belain) but didn't finish the epilogue quest (I couldn't beat the boss). What happens after you beat the boss in the epilogue?

UGotBenched91 · January 19

You all seem to be going a little hard based off very little information.

spartaxoxo · January 19

Lugaldu wrote: »

Above all, I'm not thrilled that she was mentioned... because I haven't finished playing the main storyline of Necrom yet...

Yeah. NGL I was very annoyed by that. I hadn't played it yet, although I did all the side quests. I was waiting to "binge" it so to speak closer to the time the new chapter came out so I'd have an easier time remembering what happened. They hadn't spoiled the story that drastically before and I had chat turned off, so I was surprised (unpleasantly) that they basically told the biggest reveal of last chapter.

Nihilr · January 19

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Above all, I'm not thrilled that she was mentioned... because I haven't finished playing the main storyline of Necrom yet...

Yeah. NGL I was very annoyed by that. I hadn't played it yet, although I did all the side quests. I was waiting to "binge" it so to speak closer to the time the new chapter came out so I'd have an easier time remembering what happened. They hadn't spoiled the story that drastically before and I had chat turned off, so I was surprised (unpleasantly) that they basically told the biggest reveal of last chapter.

Are you new players? If so, that's understandable.

If you've been playing, there's almost no reason you haven't finished it. We finished the main Necrom storyline in a couple of casual evenings together. It's been months and months now. That's like being mad at a sequel movie trailer because you didn't watch the first movie years ago. 🤷‍♀️

TaSheen · January 19

I'm not a new player and I just started Necrom today. I had other stuff to do (including finishing Galen) and needed to do a lot in the events so I can get the last indrik I need. My hours in game are limited (early morning to just after lunch time).

So I almost never get around to the current chapter as soon as it's released. Not only because of whatever else is going on either - I really hate questing with a bajillion other people around. Today there were only a couple of others on the same quest as I was.

emilyhyoyeon · January 19

Not to mention, a lot of us had the quest bug introduced with the Necrom chapter that made it literally impossible to do most quests including the Necrom main story until it was finally patched in the Q3 update.

Thankfully I did the main story already and didn't get it spoiled. But the choice to be so open about last chapter's main plot reveal is pretty strange... Especially when their whole thing is that you can do the stories in any order. Like what?

CameraBeardThePirate · January 19

FelisCatus wrote: »

She's basically just a slightly different version of hermaeus mora, like how boethiah and mephala are fairly similar.

She's the Prince of Paths and Untraveled Roads - not really similar to Mora at all.

She's all about alternate timelines/realities - that's why Fate-Changer is another one of her names. If anything she's closer to a mix between Peryite (natural order) and Azura (change).

I for one, am glad they're doing something fresh and new.

And to anyone being upset that this is a "retcon" (it's not), retconning is pretty much the life-blood of TES Lore. Something that could be considered a retcon has been in every TES game to date, and part of the draw of TES lore is that much of it is told to the player secondhand through unreliable narrators.

FelisCatus · January 19

Lugaldu wrote: »

Above all, I'm not thrilled that she was mentioned... because I haven't finished playing the main storyline of Necrom yet...

Same.

FelisCatus · January 19

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I am curious where this story will go and how it’ll end, like super curious, because the way it was portrayed Ithelia is out and she is a Daedric Prince and the world knows now. She has her minions and shardborn and just has to gain her powers and memories.

So I am curious how this will go because you can’t kill a daedra or a Prince so she can be defeated but will still be alive. Mora can erase everyone’s memories again but Torsvard will still exist so it’s just setting this up again. They could have Ithelia re-established as a Daedric Prince and in TES 6 Bethesda could have her involved and just have her say something like “getting involved in those other events wasn’t my path or the path of my worshippers.”

Likely we will help mora banish her and her minions and she'll be forgotten about by everyone but the vestige and will never be mentioned again in future content.

OtarTheMad · January 19

Syldras wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

So I am curious how this will go because you can’t kill a daedra or a Prince so she can be defeated but will still be alive. Mora can erase everyone’s memories again but Torsvard will still exist so it’s just setting this up again.

Maybe some kind of permanent imprisonment, also for Torvesard. Actually it has been done to daedra before, as killing them would be useless because of their ability to rematerialize.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

They could have Ithelia re-established as a Daedric Prince and in TES 6 Bethesda could have her involved and just have her say something like “getting involved in those other events wasn’t my path or the path of my worshippers.”

Unlikely, as witnesses of her appearance would tell their ancestors about it; also, there would be written records of some kind. Maybe ZOS will just throw in some "Boom! Everything is now back as it was before" magic event at the end of the chapter. Not the first time either, if you remember the people of Markarth. Which wasn't exactly a good idea, but that's a different topic.

Danikat wrote: »

Don't they normally end one chapter with a hint about the story and location of the next release? I thought it was expected at this point.

In this case, there was no hint on Skingrad (there was on in the Markarth dlc, though, a remark made by Lyris). The problem mentioned is, that there are people who haven't finished Necrom yet, or not even played it at all so far. And the return of Ithelia was the one big mystery of that chapter, which is now spoiled for these players.

We will have to see. The story could take us down any path and I think it’d be fine. She and her minions could be imprisoned, like you said, or erased again. She also could be just defeated and “free” but mysterious disappears, it could also be a Jyggalag/Sheo moment and she turns back into who she is most of the time. Rich did say during the reveal, even thanked, Bethesda for helping them with the story so it’s not like ZOS went rogue.

I’m very curious and I am excited to see where it goes.

Syldras · January 19

Kendaric wrote: »

Now I'm curious... I played through Markath (defeated Lady Belain) but didn't finish the epilogue quest (I couldn't beat the boss). What happens after you beat the boss in the epilogue?

You remember Markarth being invaded and many people killed to fuel the Dark Heart, right? At the end of the story, Verandis just manipulated the Dark Heart to basically spew out all souls again, and everyone who had been killed before just returns back to life. And the whole thing is called the "Miracle in Markarth", which, weirdly, no one on the future is able to remember

I found that ending awfully kitschy.

Nihilr wrote: »

If you've been playing, there's almost no reason you haven't finished it. We finished the main Necrom storyline in a couple of casual evenings together. It's been months and months now. That's like being mad at a sequel movie trailer because you didn't watch the first movie years ago.

I played Necrom in June already, but there are so many reasons I can think of for people not having finished it yet, including lack of time, saving up the story so it's not too long until the next chapter, wanting to play all chapters in their order of release, etc. Also, no chapter so far was that directly related to the last chapter (let alone spoiled the only one big mystery the chapter was about).

CameraBeardThePirate · January 19

Syldras wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Now I'm curious... I played through Markath (defeated Lady Belain) but didn't finish the epilogue quest (I couldn't beat the boss). What happens after you beat the boss in the epilogue?

You remember Markarth being invaded and many people killed to fuel the Dark Heart, right? At the end of the story, Verandis just manipulated the Dark Heart to basically spew out all souls again, and everyone who had been killed before just returns back to life. And the whole thing is called the "Miracle in Markarth", which, weirdly, no one on the future is able to remember I found that ending awfully kitschy.

Nihilr wrote: »

If you've been playing, there's almost no reason you haven't finished it. We finished the main Necrom storyline in a couple of casual evenings together. It's been months and months now. That's like being mad at a sequel movie trailer because you didn't watch the first movie years ago.

I played Necrom in June already, but there are so many reasons I can think of for people not having finished it yet, including lack of time, saving up the story so it's not too long until the next chapter, wanting to play all chapters in their order of release, etc. Also, no chapter so far was that directly related to the last chapter (let alone spoiled the only one big mystery the chapter was about).

I mean they didn't spoil it in promo material, but Morrowind > Clockwork City > Summerset were all direct continuations of each other.

Kendaric · January 19

Syldras wrote: »

You remember Markarth being invaded and many people killed to fuel the Dark Heart, right? At the end of the story, Verandis just manipulated the Dark Heart to basically spew out all souls again, and everyone who had been killed before just returns back to life. And the whole thing is called the "Miracle in Markarth", which, weirdly, no one on the future is able to remember I found that ending awfully kitschy.

Thanks for the update @Syldras . I always wondered what I missed, good to know I didn't miss much by not being able to finish the epilogue.:)
And yes, the ending does sound awful.

Syldras · January 19

Nihilr wrote: »

I mean they didn't spoil it in promo material, but Morrowind > Clockwork City > Summerset were all direct continuations of each other.

The stories were related as a story arc, but self-contained. When you play the Summerset chapter you learn nothing about what happens in the Morrowind chapter.

FelisCatus · January 19

Syldras wrote: »

Nihilr wrote: »

I mean they didn't spoil it in promo material, but Morrowind > Clockwork City > Summerset were all direct continuations of each other.

The stories were related as a story arc, but self-contained. When you play the Summerset chapter you learn nothing about what happens in the Morrowind chapter.

Yeah exactly. This is probably different this time as they changed the update formula.

Kalle_Demos · January 19

While I've had my issues on how ESO has handled Lore, there has never been an established or set number of Daedric Princes. And the mortals of Nirn only know about them because they choose to directly interact. It is entirely plausible that there are Princes out there that want nothing to do with Nirn or their problematic peers. There is nothing Lore breaking about there being Princes we've never heard of. None of this is surprising considering the Lore with Sheogorath.

TaSheen · January 20

The kicker is that Bethesda helped bring Ithelia to "birth".

spartaxoxo · January 20

Nihilr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Above all, I'm not thrilled that she was mentioned... because I haven't finished playing the main storyline of Necrom yet...

Yeah. NGL I was very annoyed by that. I hadn't played it yet, although I did all the side quests. I was waiting to "binge" it so to speak closer to the time the new chapter came out so I'd have an easier time remembering what happened. They hadn't spoiled the story that drastically before and I had chat turned off, so I was surprised (unpleasantly) that they basically told the biggest reveal of last chapter.

Are you new players? If so, that's understandable.

If you've been playing, there's almost no reason you haven't finished it. We finished the main Necrom storyline in a couple of casual evenings together. It's been months and months now. That's like being mad at a sequel movie trailer because you didn't watch the first movie years ago. 🤷‍♀️

No. It's not like that. Because the devs have generally managed to avoid direct spoilers in their global reveals. So, people who like to do the continuous parts of the story at once can do so unspoiled. It's not an unreasonable expectation to think devs will do the global reveal the same they'd been doing it for years.

BlueViolet · January 20

I'm actually quite intrigued about another Daedric Prince and am really looking forward to that.

TaSheen wrote: »

So I almost never get around to the current chapter as soon as it's released. Not only because of whatever else is going on either - I really hate questing with a bajillion other people around.

I feel that same. I probably wont get this chapter until the initial furore has died down. I always hate getting into an overcrowded new zone.

Jaraal · January 20

Wait, Ithelia is in the Necrom chapter? And Hermaeus Mora wipes out memories?

Guess I don't need to play that one now.