Stop speedrunning in dungeons!

KapiteinBoterham · January 16

Guys i know the secret to stopping fake-role speedrunners in dungeons and make the dungeon running experience less annoying!

Increase the transmute reward for Random Vet. Dungeons OR (the less popular option) decrease the transmute reward for normal dungeons.

Yes the solution is that simple! We all met the burnt out/toxic/fake-role/doesn't wait for the group person that is just there for the transmutes. Increasing/decreasing the transmute reward would increase the incentive to play a veteran dungeons and encourage actually participating with the group.

React · January 16

As someone who queues random normals on a DPS and runs straight through the whole dungeon for my daily transmutes, I approve of the first suggestion.

Hapexamendios · January 16

I would prefer a solo/duo queue for a random

Elsonso · January 16

Uh. No, thank you.

I don't speed run, but I am also not going to do Vet dungeons to get transmute rewards.

Tannus15 · January 16

vet dungeons need better transmute rewards. lets face it, the only PVE rewards actually worth anything are transmutes. for those of us who don't PVP banking transmutes for the inevitable meta shift next update is important and one of the few rewards in the game i care about.

that said, in my experience "speed runners" come in 2 forms.
the first can handle the the dungeon and their speed run just gets it done quickly. good for them. thank you for your service.
the other can't and dies to their shock and horror when the rest of the group ignores them and just continues at their own pace.
i find the second one highly amusing.

baratron · January 16

Is there an option in the Group Finder for "Do the dungeon quickly" vs "Listen to the story"?

If not, there should be.

MidniteOwl1913 · January 16

Joining encounter makes it hard to ignore them...

ZOS_Hadeostry · January 16

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's dungeon related.

Thank you for your understanding

Soarora · January 16

I wouldn't mind trying a raise in vet transmute to see what happens.

Nihilr · January 16

Agree with the preference of making a solo-duo version of dungeons, even with less rewards, including half the transmute crystals. They've already began this by re-doing boss mechanics in InfArch. Some bosses may be a little buggy still, but we love it.

Rowjoh · January 16

I know ! simply reduce running speed to minimum !

Braffin · January 16

Agreed. Raising the transmute reward for vet dungeons is at least promising enough to solve the issues with rnd to give it a try.

Hard no tho for solo/duo dungeons earning the players transmutes. We get substantial transmute rewards for keeping the population (dungeon queues as well as cyrodiil) somewhat healthy, otherwise transmutes are restricted to vet content and leaderboards exclusively.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Transmute_Crystals

If players would be able to earn for example 5 transmutes for running a fg 1 solo mode, they get more transmutes out of it than helping someone doing normal fg 1 on a pledge day (earning each player 1 transmute, or 2 if hm is done). That would be ridiculous and broken as hell.

Ph1p · January 16

Maybe worth a try. But I wonder how much you need to change the rewards before a "speedrunner" would be willing to go for a much longer vet dungeon PUG with all its risks and issues instead of sticking to easy RNDs. And you'd better hope these people then change their behavior, otherwise the negative experience is just shifted to vet queues and Undaunted pledges...

svendf · January 16

Wanna lose speedrunners ? Level scale dungeons and the character with it. Running FG1 you will be lvl 15 again, and make it so the, whole dungeon have to be cleared.

Make a system, where you get good treansmute and gold rewards for helping low lvl players doing the dungeon quest. The higher level you have the bigger the rewards.

The system they have in FFxiv is really good. You help with a clear/quest.

The Roulette system in FFxiv is a very good systems and the rewards are darn good. The roulette system is the all over the best system I have ever seen in a Mmo - Ever. Use it alot an love it.

Add to that the full blown trinity to get every one onboard, and you will start to see a better community and all over better player quality cross the board.

ClowdyAllDay · January 16

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I would prefer a solo/duo queue for a random

Yes if these players who are farming either exp or transmutes or both wish to have a solo random, please give it to them. They are highly disruptive to those who wish to actually play the dungeon with 4 people in total. Give them their own dungeons so they stop ruining ours.

ClowdyAllDay · January 16

svendf wrote: »

Wanna lose speedrunners ? Level scale dungeons and the character with it. Running FG1 you will be lvl 15 again, and make it so the, whole dungeon have to be cleared.

Make a system, where you get good treansmute and gold rewards for helping low lvl players doing the dungeon quest. The higher level you have the bigger the rewards.

The system they have in FFxiv is really good. You help with a clear/quest.

The Roulette system in FFxiv is a very good systems and the rewards are darn good. The roulette system is the all over the best system I have ever seen in a Mmo - Ever. Use it alot an love it.

Add to that the full blown trinity to get every one onboard, and you will start to see a better community and all over better player quality cross the board.

a lot

tincanman · January 16

Could anyone please explain why people who continue to use an exclusively random tool will not choose instead to pre-form groups when they clearly get so upset by what that random tool provides them with?

I mean, you know that speed-runners exist, you know there's a high probability at least one will be selected by the purely random group finder, zos have provided everyone with a way to leverage our own types of pre-formed group for any style of content and yet...?

Genuinely curious.

tincanman · January 16

Also, don't think the random reward should be changed for veteran dungeons as it would dilute the pool of decent players available to back-fill groups.

A more useful proposal would be to shift the transmute crystal reward on a dlc/main game dungeon basis and/or with undaunted pledges, if at all.

fizl101 · January 16

tincanman wrote: »

Could anyone please explain why people who continue to use an exclusively random tool will not choose instead to pre-form groups when they clearly get so upset by what that random tool provides them with?

I mean, you know that speed-runners exist, you know there's a high probability at least one will be selected by the purely random group finder, zos have provided everyone with a way to leverage our own types of pre-formed group for any style of content and yet...?

Genuinely curious.

The thing is, not everyone is necessarily queuing for a random. If someone queues for Elden Hollow 2 and there aren't others specifically queued for that dungeon it will pull from the list of people who have queued for a random. Its 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, it could also be said why don't the speedrunners preform a group. Its the nature of the queues merging and the benefits of doing the random means all different types of people are going to end up in the same place.

Cooperharley · January 16

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

Guys i know the secret to stopping fake-role speedrunners in dungeons and make the dungeon running experience less annoying!

Increase the transmute reward for Random Vet. Dungeons OR (the less popular option) decrease the transmute reward for normal dungeons.

Yes the solution is that simple! We all met the burnt out/toxic/fake-role/doesn't wait for the group person that is just there for the transmutes. Increasing/decreasing the transmute reward would increase the incentive to play a veteran dungeons and encourage actually participating with the group.

First off, there's just going to be a fundamental problem with this argument. If you are queueing for a random dungeon - that also means you are queueing with a random group of people with random intentions and random ideas about what they want to do in said dungeon. Is it polite to allow people to do the quests? Absolutely. Are they obligated to slow down? No of course not. Some people just wants transmutes and the XP as fast as possible. This isn't their fault, this is a design problem.

Transmutes come around fairly sparsely. How can we get them currently? You get 10 per random dungeon (whether normal or vet), through tales of tribute (big yuck personally), you can get 4-25 from the daily BG, 50 or so from hitting tier 1 rewards in a 30 day pvp campaign, 1-5 from daily pledges, etc. As such, the most efficient method is to run a random normal daily dungeon. There are some people that complain about having too many transmutes - I and many others never have enough, on the contrary. So to farm transmutes, since i'm experimenting with builds and such, the easiest is to farm random normal dungeons. Now, i'm polite in dungeons and slow down if the group needs it, if there's a new player, etc. But some people want to do this on 4, 5 maybe 6 or more characters right? The problem is we need more diversification in how we earn transmutes.

Number one, the fact that you get the EXACT same rewards for a random normal dungeon and a random veteran dungeon is simply confusing. I can do normal fungal grotto in under 7 minutes or I can get a veteran lair of maarselok run with a pug. I get rewarded the same for both, so why waste the time doing the latter? This is the issue. I guarantee you if you gave the community 2 - 2.5x the xp and transmutes in a random veteran, you'd see many more doing this instead. So i'm totally with you on that. Another alternative - outside of the dungeon argument - is to give transmutes in a variety of other activities. Have them drop as a reward in your daily crafting motifs, have them drop in zone daily quest turn-ins, have them drop with bosses in infinite archive, have them drop all over the place in varying amounts. And also, to appease those that have too many, simply remove the cap or give us another way to spend transmutes.

This argument should never be centered solely around players, but rather always around a design philosophy. If the reward structure was designed properly to gain the transmutes and xp, you'd have a lot less people running them. I don't enjoy normal dungeon content. I only want to run veteran, but it's not efficient even remotely to do so if i'm there for the purpose of transmutes. It ends up hurting the new players, casual players and story-driven players and I absolutely agree it's a problem, but totally disagree on putting any blame on players - unless they are intentionally toxic.

Ph1p · January 16

tincanman wrote: »

Could anyone please explain why people who continue to use an exclusively random tool will not choose instead to pre-form groups when they clearly get so upset by what that random tool provides them with?

I mean, you know that speed-runners exist, you know there's a high probability at least one will be selected by the purely random group finder, zos have provided everyone with a way to leverage our own types of pre-formed group for any style of content and yet...?

Genuinely curious.

Maybe people are new and just don't know about speed-running. Maybe no one in their friend list is online. Maybe they only had 1 or 2 buddies available. Maybe they haven't made in-game friends yet. Maybe they had a bad experience with the new group finder. Maybe they just queued while farming crafting materials...

I agree that a pre-made group is often a better option, but there are plenty of scenarios where individuals or incomplete groups queue for RND.

VoidCommander · January 16

What would solve this problem is allowing for you to use your companion (and a designated role) to queue with you. At that point you could find your one buddy and their companion to burst through your daily dungeons on all your toons.

Sidonius · January 16

Maybe with next chapter they'll make it possible to queue with your companions, as they said when they brought companions into the game "people can be scary" Not the word I'd use though 😉

Necrotech_Master · January 16

i would go with the option of increasing transmute rewards for vet dungeons in many cases they are much harder than normal dungeons

however i also see the problem, with people trying to queue for random vet and being unable to handle the dungeon that it gave them, so possible that vet dungeon failure rates would increase

for myself, i never run randoms for transmutes, im normally always capped and usually get enough from pvp or leaderboard rewards to keep myself capped

and i have majority of set gear collected so transmute cost is minimal, if i dont need gear i decon to get more transmute back

pelle412 · January 18

My vote would go to reduce crystals from random normal and give a higher amount for random vet. Maybe 5 for random normal and 15 for random vet.

El_Borracho · January 18

Ahh, this again. Where jumping off the waterfall in FG1 means you are a very bad person. The solution to playing with players who play the style of the group already exists: do a premade or kick the speed runner. If the group does not want to kick the speed runner, maybe that means the group doesn't want to slog through every boss in the game's oldest dungeon for the thousandth time.

Forcing your style of play on everyone is no different than speed running. Demanding that the group do every boss, side boss, and add pull in the dungeon when the other 3 do not want to is not "polite" or "courteous." Its akin to breaking the statues in VHRC because you want to do hard mode, so everyone has to do hard mode, regardless of what the majority of the group want.

If you don't want to join a guild or form premades with friends, that's not the game's problem, nor is it the fault of other players.

AvalonRanger · January 21

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

Guys i know the secret to stopping fake-role speedrunners in dungeons and make the dungeon running experience less annoying!

Increase the transmute reward for Random Vet. Dungeons OR (the less popular option) decrease the transmute reward for normal dungeons.

Yes the solution is that simple! We all met the burnt out/toxic/fake-role/doesn't wait for the group person that is just there for the transmutes. Increasing/decreasing the transmute reward would increase the incentive to play a veteran dungeons and encourage actually participating with the group.

We have group finder tool now. Just use it.

" No fake role" Define CP limitation, and define playing style.
No problem all.

But, once I saw CP2300 fake healer among normal trial group finder member.
Terrible player never changes....

or being real tank yourself.

Elsonso · January 21

AvalonRanger wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

Guys i know the secret to stopping fake-role speedrunners in dungeons and make the dungeon running experience less annoying!

Increase the transmute reward for Random Vet. Dungeons OR (the less popular option) decrease the transmute reward for normal dungeons.

Yes the solution is that simple! We all met the burnt out/toxic/fake-role/doesn't wait for the group person that is just there for the transmutes. Increasing/decreasing the transmute reward would increase the incentive to play a veteran dungeons and encourage actually participating with the group.

We have group finder tool now. Just use it.
" No fake role" Define CP limitation, and define playing style.
No problem all.

Does "no fake role" actually work?

BejaProphet · January 21

Two moves would solve the dungeon problems.

1. Stop letting every alt get a first random dungeon of the day boost. Currently we get extra rewards for doing a first random dungeon. Then if you log onto a new character, you get it again. This causes people to try and run it with twelve different alts. If DD’s have a thirty minute wait time (or more) then that is 6+ hours of waiting per day. This is driving people to fake tank and rush dungeons both. It would be far better to tie first time rewards to each “role.” Not each character.

2. Simply let there be an option to accept a group without the “holy trinity” of tank, DD, healer when using group finder. A fake tank is choosing to not have a tank in exchange for faster queue time. So just give them that option! All the DD’s willing to rush with no tank will get in faster. This will relieve the incentive to fake tank AND ALSO lower the wait for DD’s who do want a tank and healer.

These two actions would solve most frustrations instantly.

Mesite · January 21

I've only used transmutes maybe twice ever. Are these the blus circles that clog up the inventory? For crafting?

Is that really why people do dungeons?

universeman444 · January 22

when you join a rnd and have a fake heal arcanist you just know it's time to hit that auto run button while they run ahead and melt everything. very fun. very engaging gameplay