Allow continuation of Infinite Archive progression

KaironBlackbard

I also wish the set visions and verses, and pieces you don't yet have the achievement for, would pop up more often.
That and more useful ones.
If you don't have world skills, don't summon the world skill verse choice.
If you don't have a weapon skill, or your weapon skills aren't effected by the verse (ie resto staff) then don't summon the weapon skill verse choice.
Unless you need it for achievement.
Etc.

KaironBlackbard

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Mathius_Mordred well, technically the portals to the unknown save your progress and make the challenges harder, but I know what you mean ... it would be nice to continue from a certain point in the archive, but the problem would be the visions you collected before that ... I see 2 problems with that
1. if you continue from, say, Arc 4, what visions do you get from before? Will they be the ones you had when you started the run, or some random ones?

Just to address this, they could simply have a script where if you skip to a higher arc (that you reached once before), you just get a series of vision selections that uses the same logic as the vision selection after defeating a boss.

That way, people can choose their visions, and it would be just the same as if they went through (but without the rewards), so no worries about people getting visions they shouldn't be getting due to not having the requirements for them, or whatever.

I like this suggestion.

Syiccal

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

The entire point of the archive is to start over a fresh run every time.

Sorry, but that's just utterly boring. Most players like the feeling of progressing, which is what ZOS is counting on to keep them playing to later arcs. Some of us, however, are thankfully equipped with a sense of self-preservation, and know that remaining glued to your computer is anything but healthy.

If they think they need to revise fortune rewards for saved progress, I don't really care, but I'm not shortening my irl lifespan to try to get further in IA.

This seems like a bit of and overreaction, just go as far as you can and don't stretch it to the extreme. Just start over next time. A save would change the entire dynamic of the IA.

And I would mind if everything buyable for fortunes became more expensive due to a save function. As that would effectively devalue my time in the archive, by me having to spend more time in the IA to get more fortunes for the higher priced items. A save function would only let the elite/strong players farm more fortunes faster, while the players stuck in lower arcs would now have to spend more time in those lower arc to get the same results/buy the same items for a higher fortune price.

Personally I think the way ZOS made the IA without saves is good and fair for everyone. Equal start equal finish.

Edit: What if continuing from a saved point does not only stop any leaderboard submissions, but also stops all fortune drops from that point on? Could be a solution.

I disagree that it's an overreaction. It is widely reported that sedentary lifestyles are associated with serious health problems and an increased risk of premature death.

Being forced to sit for hours at your computer in order to reach the later arcs is actually bad for one's health (sorry, but 4-5 minute breaks are nothing), and starting over from arc 1 on another day would do nothing to improve it.

I also think that a save function would actually benefit the less elite players; after all, the current design ensures ONLY the stronger players can reach higher levels. The rest of us only have a very slim chance of attempting the higher arcs.

As I said before, tweak the fortune drops if necessary, but I think it's a) healthier, and b) more fair for the lower level players if we have a save function. Perhaps you could freeze the fortune drops (and disable leaderboards) at the level you saved at.

Why freeze fortune drops? its only 200 per crate.
Every time ive run it, the highest was 200 per muniment.
Once I get to arc 3, I find it more profitable to reset and go again. It's the same value from muniment at a much slower pace, so reset to gain it fast again.

Save it if you have threads left so you can continue another day, shouldn't hurt the scoring. It's the same playtime either way, just split between multiple days.

I see no reason to alter prices or gains. I see no reason why a save system would hurt.

If you're running for fortunes, I see no reason why you'd torture yourself in higher arcs when you get the same stuff in lower arcs much swifter.

It does go up the further you go.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syiccal wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

The entire point of the archive is to start over a fresh run every time.

Sorry, but that's just utterly boring. Most players like the feeling of progressing, which is what ZOS is counting on to keep them playing to later arcs. Some of us, however, are thankfully equipped with a sense of self-preservation, and know that remaining glued to your computer is anything but healthy.

If they think they need to revise fortune rewards for saved progress, I don't really care, but I'm not shortening my irl lifespan to try to get further in IA.

This seems like a bit of and overreaction, just go as far as you can and don't stretch it to the extreme. Just start over next time. A save would change the entire dynamic of the IA.

And I would mind if everything buyable for fortunes became more expensive due to a save function. As that would effectively devalue my time in the archive, by me having to spend more time in the IA to get more fortunes for the higher priced items. A save function would only let the elite/strong players farm more fortunes faster, while the players stuck in lower arcs would now have to spend more time in those lower arc to get the same results/buy the same items for a higher fortune price.

Personally I think the way ZOS made the IA without saves is good and fair for everyone. Equal start equal finish.

Edit: What if continuing from a saved point does not only stop any leaderboard submissions, but also stops all fortune drops from that point on? Could be a solution.

I disagree that it's an overreaction. It is widely reported that sedentary lifestyles are associated with serious health problems and an increased risk of premature death.

Being forced to sit for hours at your computer in order to reach the later arcs is actually bad for one's health (sorry, but 4-5 minute breaks are nothing), and starting over from arc 1 on another day would do nothing to improve it.

I also think that a save function would actually benefit the less elite players; after all, the current design ensures ONLY the stronger players can reach higher levels. The rest of us only have a very slim chance of attempting the higher arcs.

As I said before, tweak the fortune drops if necessary, but I think it's a) healthier, and b) more fair for the lower level players if we have a save function. Perhaps you could freeze the fortune drops (and disable leaderboards) at the level you saved at.

Why freeze fortune drops? its only 200 per crate.
Every time ive run it, the highest was 200 per muniment.
Once I get to arc 3, I find it more profitable to reset and go again. It's the same value from muniment at a much slower pace, so reset to gain it fast again.

Save it if you have threads left so you can continue another day, shouldn't hurt the scoring. It's the same playtime either way, just split between multiple days.

I see no reason to alter prices or gains. I see no reason why a save system would hurt.

If you're running for fortunes, I see no reason why you'd torture yourself in higher arcs when you get the same stuff in lower arcs much swifter.

It does go up the further you go.

The thing is, as far as I know, it goes up the further you go, but so does the difficulty. Which makes sense as to why you get more rewards.

Saving and/or being able to start from a higher arc would still mean that the enemies are stronger than those in the arcs below, so I also don't really see why it should be tweaked to drop less or freeze the drops (not saying you are saying that, just addressing that issue)

gamma71

People that are fine with the way it is now obviously don't have jobs. It's easy to be fine with it when you don't have anything else to do 😁

katanagirl1

I don’t care about starting at higher arcs, but I don’t understand why that would be a problem to implement.

Can’t they just autogenerate some visions to choose from all at once and give you the score bonus you would have for completing each level? I don’t think that score changes from run to run.

It’s only the visions that matter from level to level, right? So you can hopefully get the 3/3 for the same one. Verses don’t last more than one stage or whatever it’s called, so they are irrelevant.

Horny_Poney

Why generate new visions when the previous ones can be saved?

Dragonnord

For the ones that say "but lock you out of leaderboards". Who cares about leaderboars? Leadearboards are nothing. Mean nothing. Even get deleted after some tme.

So locking a player out of leaderboards would be no punishing.

Yes, do it, lock me out of leaderbords, who cares about something that is wiped out after a few days?

Imaging removing all records from the Olympics after a few weeks or months?

Bad system.
 

KaironBlackbard

I thought there was an all time leaderboard and a weekly leaderboard

Frostee_rucker

Elvenheart wrote: »

In my opinion, not allowing threads for 24 hours is not the best solution. I think that, simply at the loss of your third thread, your leader board progress should be stopped at that point, but you should be allowed to keep going for as long as you like (or restart with new threads if you prefer), this would give you an opportunity to at least learn and practice the harder Arcs. I suspect though that the main reason we cannot do this is that people may get tired of the IA more quickly than they otherwise would so it would lose some replayability factor.

No. The current system has the element of the risk involved. Having the risk of your archive run ending because of death is what's so valuable. It adds adrenalin games are looking for because of the intense moments in the deeper rounds.


.

BananaBender

Dragonnord wrote: »

For the ones that say "but lock you out of leaderboards". Who cares about leaderboars? Leadearboards are nothing. Mean nothing. Even get deleted after some tme.

So locking a player out of leaderboards would be no punishing.

Yes, do it, lock me out of leaderbords, who cares about something that is wiped out after a few days?

Imaging removing all records from the Olympics after a few weeks or months?

Bad system.
 

For me it's the other way around. Who cares about going into the later arcs if not for the leaderboards? There is no point since the whole place doesn't change after arc 5, the adds just get more tanky.

Having the option to save your runs would be nice but it also has some problems which ZoS is not too keen fixing. Right now bunch of the visions break if you leave the instance or enter one of the smaller portals, the whole place also breaks down after you've collected all the available visions etc. I don't even want to know how insanely buggy a save feature would be considering how buggy this current patch already is.

But yeah, some sort of a save system would be good since the biggest threat in pushing into the late arcs (especially as solo) is the servers. If you get disconnected your run is most likely over and there is nothing you can do. And when the current record took 72h the chances of crashing are very high.

XSTRONG

I much would like there to be a save/skip option in Infinite Archive but I think that would need some kind of penalty or cost to it.

[Example 1:
you lose all your threads at Arc 5, you are able to restart at that Arc but not playing for leaderboard anymore and you wont get any more Archival Fortunes until you clear Arc 5, when you enter Arc 6 you now are getting Archival Fortunes again.

Example 2:
You can save your progress as long as you have threads left, when you save and re enter you will have a penalty on Archival fortunes earned in that Arc you saved in, next Arc should give the normal amount. No leaderboard progress after the save.

Example 3:
Buyable SkipCoins at vendor that lets you skip Stages/Cycles/Arcs to a Cost, the higher the Arc the higher the SkipCoin cost.
Now a problem with that are you get no visions and verses if you skip Cycles.

Mik195

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Ph1p wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

I don't understand the argument about leaderboards just because of saves. If everyone has the same option to save what difference does it make

I agree. I've referred to it because one of the previous posters argumented against save because it's somehow unfair. The only potential unfairness I could think of was comparing scores between saved and unsaved runs. But since we would all have the same choices...

That’s a fair argument and there is a precedent for this with Maelstrom Arena: If you save your progress and return later, it disqualifies you from leaderboards and the Perfect Run achievement. I see no problem with applying the same logic to IA.

Maelstrom arena takes half an hour.

Tbh I don't really care about what they do with scores and leaderboards. Just give me some time saving solution.

Edit after giving it more thought:
The leaderboard thing is a bit complicated. It's hard to disagree that doing something like 16 arcs at one sitting is insanely more difficult than doing it with a save in between. If we want to compare these runs, score should somehow reflect the difference.

On the other hand though, with those long runs it feels like irl factors are contributing to the score a bit too much. If I'd wanted my physical endurance to be scored, I would play sports instead of a video game.

In general I think that the specifics about whether and how skip/saved runs should be scored need to be discussed mostly between devs and those players that actually scorepush IA. I have a feeling that most of the players here asking for a save do not fall into this category.

For you Maelstrom takes less . I've nevthan a hal hour

Frostee_rucker wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

In my opinion, not allowing threads for 24 hours is not the best solution. I think that, simply at the loss of your third thread, your leader board progress should be stopped at that point, but you should be allowed to keep going for as long as you like (or restart with new threads if you prefer), this would give you an opportunity to at least learn and practice the harder Arcs. I suspect though that the main reason we cannot do this is that people may get tired of the IA more quickly than they otherwise would so it would lose some replayability factor.

No. The current system has the element of the risk involved. Having the risk of your archive run ending because of death is what's so valuable. It adds adrenalin games are looking for because of the intense moments in the deeper rounds.


.

No one is trying to stop you playing like this, but for those of us more focused on figuring out how to master content (for me, this is early arc 3), the risk you value is harmful to us.

KaironBlackbard

BananaBender wrote: »

But yeah, some sort of a save system would be good since the biggest threat in pushing into the late arcs (especially as solo) is the servers. If you get disconnected your run is most likely over and there is nothing you can do. And when the current record took 72h the chances of crashing are very high.

WOAH. I didn't know that.
Considering I crash at least once per hour (Centurylink bad) there's no way I stand a chance at achieving anywhere near that.
Not like that means anything considering I can't really survive Arc 3 without assistance.
Most of my characters can hardly survive arc 1.

BTW: How does a level 25 deal 5k damage, but a level 30 deal only 1.2k? What's with that scaler? I'm heartbroken that my templar got nuked by leveling 5 levels. He was INSANE, now he's almost useless. Nothing really changed with his heals though, so I'm not THAT worried, I just can't solo archive as him anymore. He used to solo into arc 2, now he can't even reach the first boss alone. And he seems to get one-tapped by every boss, not much of a revive master if he can't take a few hits while reviving someone. Kagrenac's Hope is his main set for that. Connection issues don't justify going purely heals as half the time I get a lag spike when I'm supposed to heal and my ally dies because of it. Better to be prepared to pick them up instead.

Mathius_Mordred

Many have said, the solution is simple, if you use the save option it removes you from the leaderboard. When you restart it resets everything to how it was, no need to lose threads at all. Until they make this change I will continue to avoid this time sink as I spend most of my evenings running events with the guild and clearly IA is not a guild friendly addition to the game.

I also agree that the entire premise is potentially harmful to some people who just will not stop, I mean 72 hours, for real? This is dangerous unless there was a team of them in the same house taking turns. I'm sure ZOS will make changes when the game finally kills someone, I know it sounds like hyperbole but it is possible, gamers have died before making extended runs.

So, as it stands now, I, along with many of our guild members, just don't bother playing it. I have about 20K fortunes since it started and I've never spent them, that total hasn't changed for at least a month. Nice idea but a very flawed concept, adding the save function would massively increase the IA's appeal for many.

KaironBlackbard

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Many have said, the solution is simple, if you use the save option it removes you from the leaderboard. When you restart it resets everything to how it was, no need to lose threads at all. Until they make this change I will continue to avoid this time sink as I spend most of my evenings running events with the guild and clearly IA is not a guild friendly addition to the game.

I also agree that the entire premise is potentially harmful to some people who just will not stop, I mean 72 hours, for real? This is dangerous unless there was a team of them in the same house taking turns. I'm sure ZOS will make changes when the game finally kills someone, I know it sounds like hyperbole but it is possible, gamers have died before making extended runs.

So, as it stands now, I, along with many of our guild members, just don't bother playing it. I have about 20K fortunes since it started and I've never spent them, that total hasn't changed for at least a month. Nice idea but a very flawed concept, adding the save function would massively increase the IA's appeal for many.

Aye.
My appeal isn't in leaderboard, as none of my toons really make it past arc 3, but in the fortunes and achievements.
I wish I could have better chances at making the 3 vision combo for verse achievements. Er, better chances at them since I don't have achievement. Of course, in having the achievement, the chances would drop till you have all related achievements, but still. Achievement hunting is a pain.
I made 2/3 and 2/3 and ally made 3/3 but didn't progress to vision. She had to run and do IRL things, therefore ending our run. We had just beat the Arc 3 boss.
We had all threads.
Had there been a save function, we could have paused there and continued later, when she had time again.
WITH OUR VISIONS. That is key!
If we're gonna lose all our visions in save, might as well just reset. No point if there are no visions. I do it solely for vision hunting.
I've already done the verse hunting trio, excluding the ones requiring visions to claim. Best was 2/3 visions before party wipe or member needing to leave.
How people can survive to Arc 5 is beyond me.
Perhaps it's just that I have laggy internet and therefore the lag spikes are what kill me.
It's definitely lag spikes that kill me in PvP.
So it's probably that. Oh wells.

Horny_Poney

Do you really think that the people who spent 72 hours in the archive didn’t sleep? They simply blocked their controller to not be disconnected, ate, slept, and came back the day after (doesn’t this look like a save option?). Did they lose a thread by doing so? No. So tell us again why exactly a save option would be bad?

Necrotech_Master

Dragonnord wrote: »

For the ones that say "but lock you out of leaderboards". Who cares about leaderboars? Leadearboards are nothing. Mean nothing. Even get deleted after some tme.

So locking a player out of leaderboards would be no punishing.

Yes, do it, lock me out of leaderbords, who cares about something that is wiped out after a few days?

Imaging removing all records from the Olympics after a few weeks or months?

Bad system.
 

out of the 2 leaderboards, only 1 is reset weekly

the other one is rarely reset

the weekly one is mainly for the freebie gold gear rewards, there is no rewards for the long term leaderboard

theres quite a few people who do care about the leaderboard, but if you dont care about the leaderboard then why does it matter?

maelstrom for example disqualifies you from the leaderboard if you dont complete the whole thing in 1 sitting, but you can take months to progress it and still get the clear, someone who is just going for completion wont care about the leaderboard, but it doesnt change the rewards of the maelstrom arena itself

the game shouldnt punish you if you wanted to pick up where you left off

Kappachi

Elvenheart wrote: »

In my opinion, not allowing threads for 24 hours is not the best solution. I think that, simply at the loss of your third thread, your leader board progress should be stopped at that point, but you should be allowed to keep going for as long as you like (or restart with new threads if you prefer), this would give you an opportunity to at least learn and practice the harder Arcs. I suspect though that the main reason we cannot do this is that people may get tired of the IA more quickly than they otherwise would so it would lose some replayability factor.

Would devalue the currency massively if you could keep going regardless of leaderboard. Right now things like aetherial dust still hold some value despite being more common drops from sack of provisions, but if you could go infinite you'd get way too much of these floating in economy.

Necrotech_Master

Kappachi wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

In my opinion, not allowing threads for 24 hours is not the best solution. I think that, simply at the loss of your third thread, your leader board progress should be stopped at that point, but you should be allowed to keep going for as long as you like (or restart with new threads if you prefer), this would give you an opportunity to at least learn and practice the harder Arcs. I suspect though that the main reason we cannot do this is that people may get tired of the IA more quickly than they otherwise would so it would lose some replayability factor.

Would devalue the currency massively if you could keep going regardless of leaderboard. Right now things like aetherial dust still hold some value despite being more common drops from sack of provisions, but if you could go infinite you'd get way too much of these floating in economy.

i dont think thats the thing people are complaining about

there would actually be no real way to go forever because everything gets more and more difficult, eventually you will lose all of your threads and you would have to restart

its hard to practice the content when the mob spawns are somewhat random, a wave that has an ascendant bulwark + brewmaster + mystic is going to be massively harder than one which has a dwarven centurion and 2 sun eaters