Allow continuation of Infinite Archive progression

Mathius_Mordred · December 2023

I love the idea behind the Iinfinite Archive, but what I don't like is the three threads and you're out. The problem is that I can get quite a long way in, playing for 45 minutes or an hour, if I then use up my threads I have to start again from scratch. This is boring, very boring, and is the reason I and others I have spoken to no longer play it. I think a good solution would be to keep the three threads but if you use them up you are placed on a 24-hour cooldown before you can then continue with a further 3 threads. If this was implemented I would be playing it far more often. As it is now, I only play for about 10 minutes just to build up some fortunes then leave anyway whether my threads are gone or not, which I don't believe would have been the original objective behind the design of the IA.

Interested in your guys thoughts on this.

Elvenheart · December 2023

In my opinion, not allowing threads for 24 hours is not the best solution. I think that, simply at the loss of your third thread, your leader board progress should be stopped at that point, but you should be allowed to keep going for as long as you like (or restart with new threads if you prefer), this would give you an opportunity to at least learn and practice the harder Arcs. I suspect though that the main reason we cannot do this is that people may get tired of the IA more quickly than they otherwise would so it would lose some replayability factor.

Treeshka · December 2023

They just need to figure out a way to save progress at least in solo. Also upgraded Threads are four and you can even get one extra during the run, which makes total thread count five. Long runs already took up to six or seven hours.

Either saving the run or one thread so when you die it is over.

Braffin · December 2023

I think this idea is unnecessarily complicated and it would be much more efficient to allow saving and to be able to start at already cleared Arcs (both would lock you out of leaderboards of course).

Elvenheart · December 2023

I’ve always liked the idea of being able to save your progress and continue later - around the fourth arc I get so tired that in itself becomes the biggest reason it’s hard to go on. And in the beginning I thought there should be a way to start at higher arcs, but now that I’ve done the IA as much as I have, I’ve realized I enjoy getting the visions and trying to stack them to see what happens, so I would probably never use that feature if it caused me to miss out on the easier-to-get visions. But it would be nice for people who didn’t care about visions.

Braffin · December 2023

Elvenheart wrote: »

I’ve always liked the idea of being able to save your progress and continue later - around the fourth arc I get so tired that in itself becomes the biggest reason it’s hard to go on. And in the beginning I thought there should be a way to start at higher arcs, but now that I’ve done the IA as much as I have, I’ve realized I enjoy getting the visions and trying to stack them to see what happens, so I would probably never use that feature if it caused me to miss out on the easier-to-get visions. But it would be nice for people who didn’t care about visions.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat here. I most probably also wouldn't use it often.

Starting at higher Arcs wouldn't give us the full experience of course, but it would enable us to play a comparably quick run at a specifically chosen difficulty.

Loiann · August 24

The attitude of Infinite Archive not providing opportunities to save progress is very discriminatory. The Infinite Archive should be available to all, just like the rest of the game. There are many disabilities that prevent sitting for extended periods of time. I find it to be very short sighted of the developers to allow only able bodied persons to even attempt Infinite Archive.
I should be able to save my progress until I have no more threads.
I hope you reconsider.

valenwood_vegan · August 24

Yeah it sucked a lot of the fun out of IA for me, knowing that I have never and will never be able to see how far I can actually progress in there. Real life prevents some of us from spending many hours in one sitting playing a video game, and even if I didn't have more important things to do, I would not risk my health sitting in front of the computer like that. And as mentioned, others may have disabilities and medical issues that prevent gaming for that amount of time in one sitting.

I personally do still sometimes enjoy IA and am enjoying the new stuff for now, but my runs always end because of time elapsed, and that gets old... especially when a chunk of the time each run is spent repeating the same early arcs that pose no challenge and are not at all engaging for a more experienced player.

XSTRONG · August 24

If Zos decide to have a save or skip option in Infinite Archive they should also consider that some players will exploit it to get Archival Fortunes faster.

If there was a save/skip option in IA you can just play to a certain high Arc that you can clear pretty fast then clear, restart to farm it endlessly.

I still think that IA should have a save/skip option but it should not only remove that run from leaderboard it should also have a penalty on Archival Fortunes earned or have a cost to it.

Ph1p · August 26

I think there should be a save function that let’s you continue a run from the stage you left. It should cost one thread and stop the leaderboard progress for that run. That way, an IA run isn’t restricted by how long one can stay up all night and people don’t resort to leaving their PCs on and putting something heavy on the mouse key to keep the instance going.

However, it shouldn’t be possible to skip to a higher arc in a new run. As someone else mentioned, that would upset the rewards structure. It would also be a headache with visions. Either you are forced to start with none, which means you’re seriously underpowered in higher arcs. Or you are assigned random ones, which will lead to people re-rolling them until they get 3 Focused Efforts or whatever they need for their build.

Sarannah · August 26

Not sure if I feel there needs to be a save function to be honest, as this would allow players to gain more fortunes than normal when having to start over.

The entire point of the archive is to start over a fresh run every time. Even the fortune currency drops and the fortune prices for IA items are based on this.

A save would take away from fresh runs, even if you are easily able to get that far.

GuuMoonRyoung · August 26

Elvenheart wrote: »

In my opinion, not allowing threads for 24 hours is not the best solution. I think that, simply at the loss of your third thread, your leader board progress should be stopped at that point, but you should be allowed to keep going for as long as you like (or restart with new threads if you prefer), this would give you an opportunity to at least learn and practice the harder Arcs. I suspect though that the main reason we cannot do this is that people may get tired of the IA more quickly than they otherwise would so it would lose some replayability factor.

Now that is a great idea! I would also suggest buffing the leaderboard rewards if such a change is made.

BretonMage · August 26

Sarannah wrote: »

The entire point of the archive is to start over a fresh run every time.

Sorry, but that's just utterly boring. Most players like the feeling of progressing, which is what ZOS is counting on to keep them playing to later arcs. Some of us, however, are thankfully equipped with a sense of self-preservation, and know that remaining glued to your computer is anything but healthy.

If they think they need to revise fortune rewards for saved progress, I don't really care, but I'm not shortening my irl lifespan to try to get further in IA.

Ph1p · August 26

Sarannah wrote: »

The entire point of the archive is to start over a fresh run every time. Even the fortune currency drops and the fortune prices for IA items are based on this.

I think the point of IA is to start over if you lose all your threads. But why should I lose all progress when I still have all threads and just want to go to sleep after 3 hours of playing?

I agree that skipping arcs on a new run is not right, but continuing a previous run that had threads left over makes sense to me. A bit like the save function in Maelstrom Arena.

Syiccal · August 26

Ph1p wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

The entire point of the archive is to start over a fresh run every time. Even the fortune currency drops and the fortune prices for IA items are based on this.

I think the point of IA is to start over if you lose all your threads. But why should I lose all progress when I still have all threads and just want to go to sleep after 3 hours of playing?

I agree that skipping arcs on a new run is not right, but continuing a previous run that had threads left over makes sense to me. A bit like the save function in Maelstrom Arena.

Wait, malstrom saves...
For me I don't have the time to sit there for hours on end so progress is stopped by real world which I think could be the case for alot of ppl. The way IA works right now locks is out of further progress into the higher arcs

Sarannah · August 26

BretonMage wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

The entire point of the archive is to start over a fresh run every time.

Sorry, but that's just utterly boring. Most players like the feeling of progressing, which is what ZOS is counting on to keep them playing to later arcs. Some of us, however, are thankfully equipped with a sense of self-preservation, and know that remaining glued to your computer is anything but healthy.

If they think they need to revise fortune rewards for saved progress, I don't really care, but I'm not shortening my irl lifespan to try to get further in IA.

This seems like a bit of an overreaction, just go as far as you can and don't stretch it to the extreme. Just start over next time. A save would change the entire dynamic of the IA.

And I would mind if everything buyable for fortunes became more expensive due to a save function. As that would effectively devalue my time in the archive, by me having to spend more time in the IA to get more fortunes for the higher priced items. A save function would only let the elite/strong players farm more fortunes faster, while the players stuck in lower arcs would now have to spend more time in those lower arc to get the same results/buy the same items for a higher fortune price.

Personally I think the way ZOS made the IA without saves is good and fair for everyone. Equal start equal finish.

Edit: What if continueing from a saved point does not only stop any leaderboard submissions, but also stops all fortune drops from that point on? Could be a solution.

BretonMage · August 26

Sarannah wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

The entire point of the archive is to start over a fresh run every time.

Sorry, but that's just utterly boring. Most players like the feeling of progressing, which is what ZOS is counting on to keep them playing to later arcs. Some of us, however, are thankfully equipped with a sense of self-preservation, and know that remaining glued to your computer is anything but healthy.

If they think they need to revise fortune rewards for saved progress, I don't really care, but I'm not shortening my irl lifespan to try to get further in IA.

This seems like a bit of and overreaction, just go as far as you can and don't stretch it to the extreme. Just start over next time. A save would change the entire dynamic of the IA.

And I would mind if everything buyable for fortunes became more expensive due to a save function. As that would effectively devalue my time in the archive, by me having to spend more time in the IA to get more fortunes for the higher priced items. A save function would only let the elite/strong players farm more fortunes faster, while the players stuck in lower arcs would now have to spend more time in those lower arc to get the same results/buy the same items for a higher fortune price.

Personally I think the way ZOS made the IA without saves is good and fair for everyone. Equal start equal finish.

Edit: What if continueing from a saved point does not only stop any leaderboard submissions, but also stops all fortune drops from that point on? Could be a solution.

I disagree that it's an overreaction. It is widely reported that sedentary lifestyles are associated with serious health problems and an increased risk of premature death.

Being forced to sit for hours at your computer in order to reach the later arcs is actually bad for one's health (sorry, but 4-5 minute breaks are nothing), and starting over from arc 1 on another day would do nothing to improve it.

I also think that a save function would actually benefit the less elite players; after all, the current design ensures ONLY the stronger players can reach higher levels. The rest of us only have a very slim chance of attempting the higher arcs.

As I said before, tweak the fortune drops if necessary, but I think it's a) healthier, and b) more fair for the lower level players if we have a save function. Perhaps you could freeze the fortune drops (and disable leaderboards) at the level you saved at.

alpha_synuclein · August 26

BretonMage wrote: »

Being forced to sit for hours at your computer in order to reach the later arcs is actually bad for one's health (sorry, but 4-5 minute breaks are nothing), and starting over from arc 1 on another day would do nothing to improve it.

I also think that a save function would actually benefit the less elite players; after all, the current design ensures ONLY the stronger players can reach higher levels. The rest of us only have a very slim chance of attempting the higher arcs.

This. We're not all sixteen with unlimited stamina and sulprus amount of free time.

Time factor cuts a lot of players out.

Mik195 · August 26

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

Being forced to sit for hours at your computer in order to reach the later arcs is actually bad for one's health (sorry, but 4-5 minute breaks are nothing), and starting over from arc 1 on another day would do nothing to improve it.

I also think that a save function would actually benefit the less elite players; after all, the current design ensures ONLY the stronger players can reach higher levels. The rest of us only have a very slim chance of attempting the higher arcs.

This. We're not all sixteen with unlimited stamina and sulprus amount of free time.

Time factor cuts a lot of players out.

Actually it's worse than that. Starting over forces people with limited time to only play areas that they've mastered while privileging those who have unlimited time.

AzuraFan · August 26

I'd much prefer a save function. Without a save function, archive progression isn't just based on player skill. It's also based on physical endurance, how much a player is willing to abuse their body, and how much time a player has to play ESO. Right now, players who have a lot of free time to play the game, who have no RSI's or physical limitations, and/or who don't care about their health have an advantage over other players. A save function would put players on a more equal footing. Without a save function, the leaderboards are pretty meaningless.

Syiccal · August 26

AzuraFan wrote: »

I'd much prefer a save function. Without a save function, archive progression isn't just based on player skill. It's also based on physical endurance, how much a player is willing to abuse their body, and how much time a player has to play ESO. Right now, players who have a lot of free time to play the game, who have no RSI's or physical limitations, and/or who don't care about their health have an advantage over other players. A save function would put players on a more equal footing. Without a save function, the leaderboards are pretty meaningless.

Exactly this, I don't have time to sit there for hours on end so il never know how far I could get

joseayalac · August 26

A better idea would be to keep each run limited to the 3-4 threads you get, but let you continue your progress on a subsequent login. This way players wouldn't be restricted by time, as it takes a lot of time to get to the point where you loose all your threads. You can continue your progress later when you have time to play again.

The thing about OP's idea about letting you get additional threads indefinitely for the same run, is that you would, sooner than later, reach a point where you no longer can progress any further because it's gotten too hard, so you would stop playing the Archive altogether. Replayability is a biggie with the Infinite Archive.

SkaraMinoc · August 26

Or allow a bypass of earlier arcs. I'm not wasting 2+ hours grinding out easy arcs just to get to the challenging ones.

Ren_TheRedFox · August 26

@Mathius_Mordred well, technically the portals to the unknown save your progress and make the challenges harder, but I know what you mean ... it would be nice to continue from a certain point in the archive, but the problem would be the visions you collected before that ... I see 2 problems with that
1. if you continue from, say, Arc 4, what visions do you get from before? Will they be the ones you had when you started the run, or some random ones?
2. if you get, say, more than 5 “ focused efforts”, it won't be too hard to continue in the archive if you have good gear, which is nice. Even with a tank who just blocks and taunts, you can do so much damage with this vision that after a while it gets boring in the archive and you just have to block to get the rewards after kills. I think it was @SkaraMinoc, if I'm not mistaken, who was able to get a massive amount of block mitigation with one of their setups, and imagine what that would be like if you're in, say, Arc 10 and have, say, 8 focused efforts and the block mitiagion vision. All you have to do at that point is just place some AoEs and block... that's all ....
And I'm sorry if some of you disagree with me but personally I would find it too boring to continue from that point and to be honest I think the scoreboard needs a rework as well because it would be extremely interesting to see what visions the top 3 players had to be so high up.

Lugaldu · August 27

I enjoy playing the archive sometimes, but the fact that there is still no way to save and continue another time still bothers me a lot.
I'm also one of those people who never have more than two hours to play at a time, and I'll probably never see Tho'at beyond Arc 2. Of course I feel like I'm missing out on something, I'd also like to go beyond Arc 2, but it's just not possible. Besides, after 2 hours of wildly clicking on the mouse, my hand is starting to cramp (sorry, I'm not 16 anymore) and the constant flashing of the effects isn't exactly the most pleasant thing after such a long time without a break either....

There should really be two modes introduced here - one for the competitive players with their leader boards and one for those who just want to play the content.

Tyrion87 · August 27

What I would like to see is if you use all 3 threads, you can still play but you don't get into the leaderboards anymore. But at least you can experience and master harder arcs. In other words, the solution I see is that threads only matter for the leaderboards and score.

Otherwise I won't be bothering with IA at all, even with a save option. I just don't see myself wasting my precious (and limited) gaming time on these trivial and tedious first arcs.

Sarannah · August 27

Personally I feel personal health is an individual's own responsibility. You do not have to play for a gazillion hours, even if the content allows this. Just see how far you get, and start over next time.

The idea about continueing after losing all threads is a 100% no in my opinion. As that removes the entire IA idea of seeing how far you can go, including devalues the fortunes.

There are also some other issues with a save function:
-Visions and verses: how would those be handled with a save function? If they get standard visions/verses, if any, the runs would all become similar or even unfair if granted good ones. Also taking away the unexpectedness from the IA. And if players do not get visions/verses when continueing from a save point, they would be at a serious disadvantage in the later arcs. There does not seem to be a fair way to do this.
-Duo's: The IA is designed for duo's. So how would this save function work with duo's? Have to wait for the same player to continue? Replace a player when continueing a save, basically pushing one player out of their higher arcs. Forcing the previously grouped with player to have to start over. Can see this getting quite a few players upset/angry.
-PUGs: If the IA had a save function, pugs would become less likely. As players would always find those they can run to the higher arcs with, instead of trying to see how far they can get with a pug player.
-Devalueing fortunes: Elite players spending more time in the higher arcs would massively devalue fortunes for the entire playerbase. As these are now generally gained at a much higher rate. Meaning those stuck in the lower arcs will have to do the same lower arcs even more often to gain the same fortune value from it.
-Cheesing content: Some players cheese their way to the higher arcs by using various methods that seem 'unfair'. This would only get worse if they could stay in those higher arcs and cheese on.
-Requirements: What are the requirements for where a save is placed? Finishing the previous arc? Finishing that arc? That would allow anyone who ever gets lucky with completing an arc to immediately jump to that higher arc, even if they basically cannot handle that higher arc. Allowing players to basically bruteforce their way to even higher arcs.
Risk: Skipping lower arcs also means missing mess ups. Allowing players to skip hard random bosses, skipping hard random marauder encounters, skipping errors made. A savingpoint would basically become a freepass to the higher arcs. Removing the infinite from the infinite archive.

BretonMage wrote: »

I also think that a save function would actually benefit the less elite players; after all, the current design ensures ONLY the stronger players can reach higher levels. The rest of us only have a very slim chance of attempting the higher arcs.

As I said before, tweak the fortune drops if necessary, but I think it's a) healthier, and b) more fair for the lower level players if we have a save function. Perhaps you could freeze the fortune drops (and disable leaderboards) at the level you saved at.

How would a save function benefit the lower/less elite players? If you top out at arc 1, a save function isn't going to magically let you reach arc 2 or further. If you top out at arc 3, you aren't going to get further with a save function. As in both cases you are stuck with x threads, and losing them means starting over. A save function does/would/should not change this.
The only thing a save function would guarantee is elite players spending more time in the higher arcs, which would massively devalue fortunes for the entire playerbase. And would devalue those fortunes gains for those stuck in the lower arcs even more. As those less elite players would now have to run their highest possible lower arcs xx times instead of once.

Artim_X · August 27

Make it so that when you lose your threads, you can pay with archival fortunes to reset your lives, but now you are no longer accumulating points for the scoreboard.

This will permit peeps to train against new bosses, train against harder difficulties, and add a new archival fortunes sink.

alpha_synuclein · August 27

Sarannah wrote: »

Personally I feel personal health is an individual's own responsibility. You do not have to play for a gazillion hours, even if the content allows this. Just see how far you get, and start over next time.

The idea about continueing after losing all threads is a 100% no in my opinion. As that removes the entire IA idea of seeing how far you can go, including devalues the fortunes.

There are also some other issues with a save function:
-Visions and verses: how would those be handled with a save function? If they get standard visions/verses, if any, the runs would all become similar or even unfair if granted good ones. Also taking away the unexpectedness from the IA. And if players do not get visions/verses when continueing from a save point, they would be at a serious disadvantage in the later arcs. There does not seem to be a fair way to do this.
-Duo's: The IA is designed for duo's. So how would this save function work with duo's? Have to wait for the same player to continue? Replace a player when continueing a save, basically pushing one player out of their higher arcs. Forcing the previously grouped with player to have to start over. Can see this getting quite a few players upset/angry.
-PUGs: If the IA had a save function, pugs would become less likely. As players would always find those they can run to the higher arcs with, instead of trying to see how far they can get with a pug player.
-Devalueing fortunes: Elite players spending more time in the higher arcs would massively devalue fortunes for the entire playerbase. As these are now generally gained at a much higher rate. Meaning those stuck in the lower arcs will have to do the same lower arcs even more often to gain the same fortune value from it.
-Cheesing content: Some players cheese their way to the higher arcs by using various methods that seem 'unfair'. This would only get worse if they could stay in those higher arcs and cheese on.
-Requirements: What are the requirements for where a save is placed? Finishing the previous arc? Finishing that arc? That would allow anyone who ever gets lucky with completing an arc to immediately jump to that higher arc, even if they basically cannot handle that higher arc. Allowing players to basically bruteforce their way to even higher arcs.
Risk: Skipping lower arcs also means missing mess ups. Allowing players to skip hard random bosses, skipping hard random marauder encounters, skipping errors made. A savingpoint would basically become a freepass to the higher arcs. Removing the infinite from the infinite archive.

BretonMage wrote: »

I also think that a save function would actually benefit the less elite players; after all, the current design ensures ONLY the stronger players can reach higher levels. The rest of us only have a very slim chance of attempting the higher arcs.

As I said before, tweak the fortune drops if necessary, but I think it's a) healthier, and b) more fair for the lower level players if we have a save function. Perhaps you could freeze the fortune drops (and disable leaderboards) at the level you saved at.

How would a save function benefit the lower/less elite players? If you top out at arc 1, a save function isn't going to magically let you reach arc 2 or further. If you top out at arc 3, you aren't going to get further with a save function. As in both cases you are stuck with x threads, and losing them means starting over. A save function does/would/should not change this.
The only thing a save function would guarantee is elite players spending more time in the higher arcs, which would massively devalue fortunes for the entire playerbase. And would devalue those fortunes gains for those stuck in the lower arcs even more. As those less elite players would now have to run their highest possible lower arcs xx times instead of once.

Let's not complicate things that don't need to be complicated.
Most of eso players are adults with time constrains. None of them are after "fortune devaluing". Introducing some sort of save/skip mechanism is a very reasonable request and would not lead to any catastrophy...

What I would suggest: completing arc without death x amount of time gives an achievement that allows to purchase (with fortunes) a skip token for said arc. With separate achievements for solo/duo. At the start of the run one can choose to use skip token (for one or multiple arcs) and gets random selection of visions (let's say once per day, to avoid cheese).

JemadarofCaerSalis · August 27

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Yeah it sucked a lot of the fun out of IA for me, knowing that I have never and will never be able to see how far I can actually progress in there. Real life prevents some of us from spending many hours in one sitting playing a video game, and even if I didn't have more important things to do, I would not risk my health sitting in front of the computer like that. And as mentioned, others may have disabilities and medical issues that prevent gaming for that amount of time in one sitting.

I personally do still sometimes enjoy IA and am enjoying the new stuff for now, but my runs always end because of time elapsed, and that gets old... especially when a chunk of the time each run is spent repeating the same early arcs that pose no challenge and are not at all engaging for a more experienced player.

This is one of the reasons I don't really care if I don't get out of arc 1. I don't always have the attention span for even arc 1, and I know I wouldn't have the attention span to consistently clear arc 2+ Even when I have the attention span, I might not necssarily have the time to spend an hour or two (or more) doing it.

JemadarofCaerSalis · August 27

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Mathius_Mordred well, technically the portals to the unknown save your progress and make the challenges harder, but I know what you mean ... it would be nice to continue from a certain point in the archive, but the problem would be the visions you collected before that ... I see 2 problems with that
1. if you continue from, say, Arc 4, what visions do you get from before? Will they be the ones you had when you started the run, or some random ones?

Just to address this, they could simply have a script where if you skip to a higher arc (that you reached once before), you just get a series of vision selections that uses the same logic as the vision selection after defeating a boss.

That way, people can choose their visions, and it would be just the same as if they went through (but without the rewards), so no worries about people getting visions they shouldn't be getting due to not having the requirements for them, or whatever.