Cyrodiil Population Cap Testing

Turtle_Bot

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo All!

Next week, we will be running some tests in Cyrodiil where we’ll be periodically adjusting the population caps. The first realm being tested is PC EU on Wednesday, December 6. During this time, we will increase population caps and monitor throughout the day through prime-time hours; if all goes well, we will do the same on PC NA and consoles later in the week.

We encourage everyone willing to fight for their Alliance to hop into their respective Campaigns because throughout the testing period until December 12, everyone in Cyrodiil will earn Double AP!

Thanks in advance for joining this population test for Cyrodiil and enjoy the double AP while the test is active. See you on the field!

First off, I want to say thank you for at least looking at how to improve cyrodiil again. Fingers crossed this test produces some good results and we players (customers) can get at least a brief run down of what the results were and what the tests are hoping to achieve.

I do want to add to the voices concerning the many bugs, balance and performance issues that have been raised by others on this thread and many other threads on the forums. I hope that these issues won't affect this test, but wanted to share the concerns that many have where this may be a possibility.

I will try to jump on if I can, I would love to see a return of the old huge chaotic battles in cyro if its possible to bring those back.

reazea

flubber77 wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo All!

Next week, we will be running some tests in Cyrodiil where we’ll be periodically adjusting the population caps. The first realm being tested is PC EU on Wednesday, December 6. During this time, we will increase population caps and monitor throughout the day through prime-time hours; if all goes well, we will do the same on PC NA and consoles later in the week.

We encourage everyone willing to fight for their Alliance to hop into their respective Campaigns because throughout the testing period until December 12, everyone in Cyrodiil will earn Double AP!

Thanks in advance for joining this population test for Cyrodiil and enjoy the double AP while the test is active. See you on the field!

So, what is the cap today? and how much will it be raised? i miss the release cap, wherever you did go you ran into a zerg or 2, keeps was under siege all the time, but today we end up with small groups trying and fail cause the lack of players. maybe get back full group also?

Today's pop cap is right about 80/faction. Three years ago the pop cap was 200-250/faction, and group size was 24 players, not 12.

I sincerely hope these "tests" aren't going to end up being an excuse to further reduce pop caps in the future.

RoxyPhoenix

Very few ppl play cyro during the week, Wednesday is like the least populated day, you want lots of ppl do it on weekends when we have to wait 30min+ to get in during primetime. But.. I guess Devs don't work on the weekends.

chessalavakia_ESO

Do you want players to stack on the most populated campaign for the test?

Do you want players to play normally or do you want players to join the biggest zerg they can find to stress the servers?

Reverb

I look forward to this. The map is much less dynamic with a smaller pop. I really miss the days of having multiple large fights per faction at the same time.

TechMaybeHic

Reverb wrote: »

I look forward to this. The map is much less dynamic with a smaller pop. I really miss the days of having multiple large fights per faction at the same time.

Not sure you get multiple large fights with a bigger cap any more. More likely larger stacks of players.

fred4

Well, this is very welcome. It's long felt to me like population caps are at a historic low and that's why Cyrodiil feels so empty and not very epic. On the other hand the testing is moot. I can already tell you right now that the relative absence of lag on PC EU has been due to both the new servers and the current population cap. As a perma-cloaking nightblade, my main build is and has always been very sensitive to detecting lag. If you just spam cloak, there seems to be a certain amount of client server optimisation or prediction going on that makes it feel quite smooth, even in lag. However, if you frequently intersperse Shadowy Disguise with Race Against Time or Siphoning Attacks, you feel lag as soon as there is any hint of it, whether you are actively in combat, or not. The skill casts inbetween cloaking start to fail. Based on that, I can tell you that the current servers are already teetering on the edge of lag in and around bigger battles. Yes, I'm watching my ping when that happens. Also, bad ping is inconsistent. It feels different to the consistent lag that creeps in when it's due to the server. Yes, I have a decent PC, e.g. 5800X3D CPU now. I, therefore, hope this is a prelude to more optimisation work being done, rather than just increasing the caps and leaving it at that.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

You had me at double AP!

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Do you want players to stack on the most populated campaign for the test?

Do you want players to play normally or do you want players to join the biggest zerg they can find to stress the servers?

I would also like to know the answer to this, I usually run around solo but I can join a zerg if it’s helpful for test purposes.

Chilly-McFreeze

How do you monitor throughout the day if you take the servers off for maintenance? Couldn't you just take any other day for the test?

Erissime

Yay ! pvp gets some attention! ( and am going to leave it at that!) - looking forward to it!

SkaraMinoc

There's already an immense delay in skills firing during large, 3-faction keep sieges (Ash, BRK, etc). Increasing the player cap will only lead to more players in the same area, which will only make the experience worse.

Reverb

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I look forward to this. The map is much less dynamic with a smaller pop. I really miss the days of having multiple large fights per faction at the same time.

Not sure you get multiple large fights with a bigger cap any more. More likely larger stacks of players.

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

I look forward to this. The map is much less dynamic with a smaller pop. I really miss the days of having multiple large fights per faction at the same time.

Not sure you get multiple large fights with a bigger cap any more. More likely larger stacks of players.

Good point. @ZOS_BrianWheeler what we really want is more people in cyrodiil at one time but NOT more people in one place. To consider raising the pop cap without performance impact please consider ways to discourage faction stacking. Maybe reduced AP earned by 5% for each player over 12 engaged in a fight for your faction. Or increase the effectiveness of siege by 1% for each enemy player over 12 in the vicinity.

Janni

Well I least I know I shouldn't even bother to visit Cyrodiil next week then. Thanks for the heads up. Like @React said there are so many issues with the game lately. And it already feels terribly laggy as it is.

Rhaegar75

excellent new. The fact that PvP is being looked at cannot be a bad thing and hopefully...hopefully..hopefully...zenimax may well be baking something for us poor neglected PvPers

Galeriano

Based on this game history it looks like it's yet another attempt to bring people into PvP by pretending that something is being done to help Cyrodill performance when in reality noting is and nothing will be done.

Lately numbers are dwindling due to horrible performance and balance so it seems like devs decided to make some move to reencourage people by throwing them a bone but a cheap one. We had similar tests already and things just changed for worse and looking at current state of the game nothing is suggesting this time will be different.

It's beyod silly to claim that increased population cap will be tested when servers can't even handle current cap. Let's face it, it's propably just another copium that we've been fed with for years just to keep us in the game with minimal effort.

Reverb

Galeriano wrote: »

Based on this game history it looks like it's yet another attempt to bring people into PvP by pretending that something is being done to help Cyrodill performance when in reality noting is and nothing will be done.

Lately numbers are dwindling due to horrible performance and balance so it seems like devs decided to make some move to reencourage people by throwing them a bone but a cheap one. We had similar tests already and things just changed for worse and looking at current state of the game nothing is suggesting this time will be different.

It's beyod silly to claim that increased population cap will be tested when servers can't even handle current cap. Let's face it, it's propably just another copium that we've been fed with for years just to keep us in the game with minimal effort.

In zeni’s defense there have been a lot of complaints about the pop cap having been lowered with the hardware upgrades. And while performance isn’t great in large battles it’s much much better than it used to be.

I appreciate them doing testing to validate whether raising the cap back will keep the performance gains of the new hardware or not.

Galeriano

Reverb wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Based on this game history it looks like it's yet another attempt to bring people into PvP by pretending that something is being done to help Cyrodill performance when in reality noting is and nothing will be done.

Lately numbers are dwindling due to horrible performance and balance so it seems like devs decided to make some move to reencourage people by throwing them a bone but a cheap one. We had similar tests already and things just changed for worse and looking at current state of the game nothing is suggesting this time will be different.

It's beyod silly to claim that increased population cap will be tested when servers can't even handle current cap. Let's face it, it's propably just another copium that we've been fed with for years just to keep us in the game with minimal effort.

In zeni’s defense there have been a lot of complaints about the pop cap having been lowered with the hardware upgrades. And while performance isn’t great in large battles it’s much much better than it used to be.

I appreciate them doing testing to validate whether raising the cap back will keep the performance gains of the new hardware or not.

Name atleast one aspect of the PvP that didn't have lot of complaints. There is many things that have been complained more than this particular subject. Most of the campaings don't even reach current population cap. Performance is bad. We just got so used to years beyond horrible performance that current horrible performance seems good for some people. it's nothing more than a copium.

There is nothing to appreciate. It's their job that should be done years ago and let's be honest if they would care, this job would've been done years ago instead of tests that ended up with nothing being improved. If past have shown anything it's that ZoS will do every cheap move just to keep PvP numbers at some desired level without actually spending time and money on improving PvP.

As it is right now it's looking like yet another attempt to keep us in the game with minimal effort. This year was supposed to be yet another year of performance improvements however unsuprisingly game is still a buggy unstable mess and bugs are present even in PvE. The newest PvE content is full of bugs despite the fact it was the only new content added to the game in this half of the year and they had plenty of time to make it. Let's face it after 10 years there is no reason to belive this time will be different than all the other times but as always it will work because the power of copium is too strong for many.

Joy_Division

4 years overdue, but nice to see the attempt.

The test would work out better if there were additional tests done to try and encourage people to actually spread out.

ADawg

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Yes but can we get rid of No proc Ravenwatch already.

The [snip] you will!

If Ravenwatch gets deleted, ESO gets deleted off my hard drive!

NO PROC is true CHAD PVP!

[edited for profanity bypass]

Jsmalls

I think it's a cool concept but I think it's extremely optimistic...

The PvP playerbase is shrinking. Unless you just plan on closing all but one server (not the worst idea but also has a lot of cons), this move doesn't make too much sense.

Unless we're getting serious PvP content additions that will drive up the population!?!??! (Unlikely since it's like 1% of your playerbase) Can I hold my breath for that!?

Or maybe cross play? Might be unfair for console but I'm also sure they wouldn't mind the population increase as well....

Can we get a hint?

Also please rescue No-proc No-CP campaigns... They are fun but entirely dead.... Spread awareness? Something?

maboleth

gronoxvx wrote: »

Ummmmm. Really?

Lets increase the pop cap while the servers cant even handle the current population?

Understand this is a "test", but seems like more smoke and mirrors compared to better performance in cyrodil. Especially since all the other testing that has happened over the years has led to nothing.

Led to server upgrade - which was needed from the day 1. But hey - devs cannot allocate money for hardware, so they try to optimize the code first, even though they know the main culprit is somewhere else.

Still, I don't understand this cap rising test. When there are two or three ball groups in the same area, servers are still stressed. So either do something about ball groups (the right approach) or just quit enlarging cyrodiil altogether before finding a solution for the first problem.

TechMaybeHic

I still see lag now albeit not as bad as before server upgrades. I still see position desync that sometimes feel as bad. Hard to tell as you don't know where everything really is for comparison, but you know you're getting hit by melee with nobody near; or not hitting targets right next to you.

I actually kind of think the input lag people still see are really their targets out of range or LOS when you don't know it because you don't see the tru position

TonyH196

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo All!

Next week, we will be running some tests in Cyrodiil where we’ll be periodically adjusting the population caps. The first realm being tested is PC EU on Wednesday, December 6. During this time, we will increase population caps and monitor throughout the day through prime-time hours; if all goes well, we will do the same on PC NA and consoles later in the week.

We encourage everyone willing to fight for their Alliance to hop into their respective Campaigns because throughout the testing period until December 12, everyone in Cyrodiil will earn Double AP!

Thanks in advance for joining this population test for Cyrodiil and enjoy the double AP while the test is active. See you on the field!

out of curiosity, What is the current cap for Cyrodill?

Mall0ry

TonyH196 wrote: »

out of curiosity, What is the current cap for Cyrodill?

They refuse to tell us specific numbers, but we assume it is 80 per faction.

Asmelia

finally they try to revamp cyro for something better or new, it was about time. Its cool to work on new sets but cyro isnt just about sets and cap keep/outpost and rss it need rework, new stuffs. keep it fresh its like if you keep the same menu during more than 5 years in row, people will get bored and stop to order it since its always the same old stuff. Same with cyro. It need revamp it need to have significant changes not put only few desserts on the menu or some kind of salads with different sauces.Keep it fresh, change the menu significantly, make people to be willing to come and try out the new things on the menu. It will give you more customers, more happy people and the regular people that come will be more than happier seeing significant changes.It mean you care of your menu (in that case it will mean you care of cyrodil and people that is in there).

IZZEFlameLash

doabhi wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo All!

Next week, we will be running some tests in Cyrodiil where we’ll be periodically adjusting the population caps. The first realm being tested is PC EU on Wednesday, December 6. During this time, we will increase population caps and monitor throughout the day through prime-time hours; if all goes well, we will do the same on PC NA and consoles later in the week.

We encourage everyone willing to fight for their Alliance to hop into their respective Campaigns because throughout the testing period until December 12, everyone in Cyrodiil will earn Double AP!

Thanks in advance for joining this population test for Cyrodiil and enjoy the double AP while the test is active. See you on the field!

Hoping this leads to some good balance on performance server side.
On a side note though, there are a few glaring issues that really need addressing in Cyrodiil, I can list a few that are real issues and not just me complaining..

• Investigate/Fix stuck negative status effects - Status effects like burning, Bleed and poisoned have a bad habit of sticking to your character even after death, any addon that displays status effects (Buffs/Debuffs) will often show them on the bar and they do not clear until you exit the zone and re-enter (Visiting cheese monger) it's been a problem for a while and may be related to the same issue that caused the negate bug recently, but that's speculation on my part as it pre-dates this.
• Properly fix 'In-combat' issues - This ones old, but it's extremely annoying when the game insists you are in combat when you very obviously aren't. it can last up to half an hour or more in extreme cases and affects your ability to mount and any other mechanics that pivot on your current combat status (Sprint speed, mount stamina etc)
• Guard Chains - The Chain mechanic on NPC guards is really broken, you can often get chained from across a courtyard, sometimes even through buildings and the chain speed is super slow, leaving you unable to break free and stunned anywhere up to 10 seconds while being dragged through oils, DOTs, Negates etc. Very annoying.
• Transitus (Still) puts you under the floor of the keep/outpost sometimes, especially prevalent when a lot of people port to the same location at the same time (E.G. Large groups) leaving you stuck there. Since /stuck only works once per hour, the only way to really escape it is to enter a different campaign or Imperial City and back, this isn't ideal especially during prime time when there's a queue.

All of these, yes please. Especially chains. That one is so annoying whenever that happens. In-combat glitch is annoying but not completely exclusive to Cyrodiil alone. PvE zone has that too and I am surprised this hasn't been fixed already. I am beginning to think this has to do with engine itself... given their non-response pretty much.

StackonClown

10 hours to implement:

pop_cap = pop_cap * 0.50

nbksaske

I'd love to see 1k vs 1k vs 1k at Alessia and the bridge 😍

ValarMorghulis1896

nbksaske wrote: »

I'd love to see 1k vs 1k vs 1k at Alessia and the bridge 😍

Yes, those epic Alessia-bridge-fights in 2014...

BahometZ

I was about to say, great news, I'm cautiously optimistic, but that's a lie. I was optimistic about this game for a long time till I learned better. Now I'm caustically cynical.

Without us knowing what the pops actually are in any official way, relying only on speculation, how are we to trust in this process?

Additionally, with the smaller pops *and crucially* the reduction in group size from 24 to 12, cyrodiil frequently devolved into one grand melee at an obvious location. As it became easier for many to just follow the zerg. Effective 12-person groups have become far more selective. With a limit of 24 it used to be that one proficient leader steering a variety of player types could achieve some semblance of cohesion. A 24 man group of middling players could level the playing field against a smaller well organised group. Halving group size meant you need twice as many crowns for half the potential efficacy. Coupled with new sets and skill imbalance, and ball groups make mince meat of any motley crew no matter the size.

(Reducing group size to 12 always felt like a step back, a defeat, the game just giving up on itself.)

There are little scrimmages around, but nothing like how it used to be, where you could regularly find sizeable battles between semi-organised groups spread across the map.

Genpop player behaviour has been shaped now to zerg.. Increasing the pop is just going to mean bigger zergs in one over-crowded location, until enough people get sick of it and try to kick off something elsewhere.

Its going to take a lot to regain the chemistry of classic cyro. Increasing group size to 24 might be crucial to this.