Block Mitigation Errors

KaironBlackbard

My block mitigation isn't being calculated as I thought it would. I'm missing a few percents that should be present.

A while Back: (CP 120 [below 160]) I had 72%. My calculation below. Immovable made 87.
Base = 30
Shield = 20
Guarded Stance = 10
6 piece heavy = 6
R3 Anchored CP = 12
Total = 78 - that's 6% more than what it claimed
Immovable = +30, but effectively only added +15
Active = 93/108, again higher than its claim

Current (CP160): 77. Immovable makes 94.5.
Base+Shield+GS = 60
R3 Anchored CP = 12
7 Heavy = 7
Footmans = 8
Total = 87, 10% more than its claim.

The math isn't adding up. I'd like to see the detailed calculation of how it makes the number, so I can see what I'm missing, or what it's missing.
Sometimes I feel like it's failing to add my armor, other times like it's failing to account for Guarded Stance.

KaironBlackbard

Current:
Remove GS only, lose nothing
Remove Shield only, lose 10% only
Remove both GS and Shield, lose only 10%
Remove Footmans Greaves, lose 5% - that's confusing considering it claims 8% when set full, that maths as 1% heavy and 4% footmans, hmm
Remove Bracing Anchor only, and lose 6%, it's Rank 3.
Remove all gear, shield skills, and champion perks, and it becomes 50.
hmm

KaironBlackbard

Almost like the shield passive of 20 is affecting all, and GS effects whether or not GS is slotted, and shield adds the 10 from GS by being equipped or not is not equipped.
A little confusing? *sigh* I did it again...
Shield passive of 20 block mitigation gets added to BM at all times, even if shield isn't equipped.
Guarded Stance

Ok, with all this stuff equipped, I swap to Ice Staff on alt bar and lose only 5%, 72 instead of 77. Would expect to lose 10%, due to no Guarded Stance passive effect, nor shield to proc the effect.

It's really confusing me.

Retest: Forgot to remove backbar's Ice Staff.
Yeah, it still calculated as 50. So apparently, by having all Destro and Shield passives, your base mitigation goes from 30 to 50, but most later bonusses are halved.
Footmans, halved.
Anchor, halved.
Guarded Stance, Halved.
Passives for Ice/Shield, disabled.
Heavy per-piece bonus, granted.
Immovable, halved.

That seems to be what's going on here... somewhat.

KaironBlackbard

anchored gives 6
footmans gives 4
guarded gives 5
heavy is 7
ok, now a mystery 5...

Ice totals 72, shield 77...
Wish I knew how this bloody thing was calculating this

virtus753

Your base blocking mitigation is 50%. Much of what you've listed there increases your block mitigation total by whatever percentage it claims of that 50% base. That's why it looks like it's being halved to you - because it's X% of the 50%.

For example, your Bracing Anchor at stage 3 gives 12% extra of that 50% base, or 0.12 * 50% = 6%. It will look like an additive 6% now and an additive 10% when you max it out at stage 5.

The one exception I know for sure is heavy armor's passive (1% per piece), which is purely additive but isn't reflected in the advanced stats page at all. (The advanced stats page wasn't properly updated for those always-on passives - as another example, the extra bash damage from heavy armor and the reduced bash damage from light armor aren't reflected either.)

When I tested it in August, the block mitigation from Ancient Knowledge and Defensive Stance is not reflected on the advanced stats page at all but does work (provided you are not over the 90% block mitigation cap). UPDATE: see below.

ETA: I will test again now and post results.

Heavy armor's passive blocking mitigation is now accurately reflected. Nice to see that change.
Ancient Knowledge and Sword and Board passive bonuses are now reflected. As above.
Defensive Stance's passive bonus (with sword and shield equipped) is still not reflected at all. Same mitigation with it slotted or without.
Deflect Bolts passive also not reflected, since there is not a separate projectile vs. non-projectile blocking mitigation stat.

KaironBlackbard

From what I've heard and read they reduced base mitigation from 50% to 30% and all modifiers were additive. The shield/ice passives increased it to 50, because 30+20=50. From there guarded+shield made 60, and then my stuff got bugged and refuses to show the proper numbers.
That was back when I was level 30, A couple weeks ago.
Now I'm 160 and having issues.
Maybe this is a bug based off old system code still in the background?
My heavy armor is reflected in the advanced stats.
I used that to see my numbers when removing/changing gear and CP perks.
However, I have a 5% that I cannot account for when I have gear equipped.
None: 50
All, Greataxe: 72
All, Ice Staff: 72
All, Shield: 77
Guarded Stance disregarded in advanced stats, but may be a passive effect that doesn't need to be slotted to work?
A bit confused as to why it's calculating like that.

virtus753

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

From what I've heard and read they reduced base mitigation from 50% to 30% and all modifiers were additive. The shield/ice passives increased it to 50, because 30+20=50. From there guarded+shield made 60, and then my stuff got bugged and refuses to show the proper numbers.
That was back when I was level 30, A couple weeks ago.
Now I'm 160 and having issues.
Maybe this is a bug based off old system code still in the background?
My heavy armor is reflected in the advanced stats.
I used that to see my numbers when removing/changing gear and CP perks.
However, I have a 5% that I cannot account for when I have gear equipped.
None: 50
All, Greataxe: 72
All, Ice Staff: 72
All, Shield: 77
Guarded Stance disregarded in advanced stats, but may be a passive effect that doesn't need to be slotted to work?
A bit confused as to why it's calculating like that.

Where did you read that they reduced block mitigation to 30% and made all modifiers additive? That is a major combat change and would have been mentioned in patch notes. I would be very curious to see an official source for that, especially as it isn't consistent with how the game actually functions.

When you remove all your gear and CP and everything else, you have 50% block mitigation. The same is true for me. That should tell you that base blocking mitigation is 50%. The majority of block mitigation increases apply to that 50% value. The heavy armor always-on passive bonuses and penalties were added later and operate differently from the rest.

Defensive Stance only grants its passive bonuses when slotted, as per the green bit in the tooltip that describes what this particular morph does when you go to morph it from the base form: "While slotted, you reduce the cost of block and increase the amount of damage you can block." That is also verifiable in testing.

KaironBlackbard

When I slot/unslot guarded stance with shield equipped, it does not change my mitigation. It remains 77.
But when I remove shield, it becomes 72.

When I started this character, my mitigation was 30 and increased additively as I gained shield/destro perks.
It wasn't until I unlocked Guarded Stance that it locked at 50 and quit recognizing my passives.
When I originally unlocked anchor it functioned additively as 12, now its doing only 6.
When I originally filled my Footmans set, it sent me from 72 to 80. Now the numbers are bugged.

Base has been 30 for over a year. I haven't gotten word of a reversion on that.
They reduced base mitigation because many players were reaching over 108% on classes that don't have block bonusses, at all times. Without Immovable.
I never heard of a block cap.
Also, it is greater than 90 because when I use Immovable, I hit 94.5. Can't wait to max anchor and passive cp. 150 levels to go. Needs 50 warrior points.
Speaking of, when I had passive, it was additive, before I moved it into anchor because 12 is better than 4.

virtus753

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

When I slot/unslot guarded stance with shield equipped, it does not change my mitigation. It remains 77.
But when I remove shield, it becomes 72.

When I started this character, my mitigation was 30 and increased additively as I gained shield/destro perks.
It wasn't until I unlocked Guarded Stance that it locked at 50 and quit recognizing my passives.
When I originally unlocked anchor it functioned additively as 12, now its doing only 6.
When I originally filled my Footmans set, it sent me from 72 to 80. Now the numbers are bugged.

Base has been 30 for over a year. I haven't gotten word of a reversion on that.
They reduced base mitigation because many players were reaching over 108% on classes that don't have block bonusses, at all times. Without Immovable.
I never heard of a block cap.
Also, it is greater than 90 because when I use Immovable, I hit 94.5. Can't wait to max anchor and passive cp. 150 levels to go. Needs 50 warrior points.
Speaking of, when I had passive, it was additive, before I moved it into anchor because 12 is better than 4.

I have no recollection of any word regarding a 30% base and can see no evidence of it in game. I would ask again for official notes regarding that change.

Also keep in mind that underleveled characters can show battle-scaled stats that change over time as you level up to 50. At one point, and it may still be the case, Major Brutality and Sorcery granted 25%+ Weapon and Spell damage on a very underleveled character. It decreased as the character leveled up to level 50, down to its normal value of 20%. I watched it scale down as my character leveled up.

The block mitigation cap of 90% was mentioned in these patch notes:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488626/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-1-5-scalebreaker-update-23

"Block mitigation now has a cap of 90%. This was done to prevent situations where you could reach 100% damage mitigation, which is not okay, m’kay?"

The Advanced Stats page is known to return values of higher than 90%, which is not accurate when you actually test it. See here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-21-03-2021/p1

virtus753

I cannot reproduce what you’re seeing with shields.

When I unequip my shield or ice staff, I lose 10% of my blocking mitigation in Advanced Stats, which is exactly the 20% quoted in the Sword and Board/Ancient Knowledge passives when considered with respect to the 50% base. I cannot get the number to change by 5% for equipping or unequipping a shield.

code65536

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

From what I've heard and read they reduced base mitigation from 50% to 30% and all modifiers were additive.

That is 100% incorrect, and whatever source you heard or read is wrong.

KaironBlackbard

I'm pretty sure the base reduction was made Before Necromancer existed.
Thanks for the link to the cap notifier, now I can use different sets once I get it capped.
Might even have been before Summerset, actually it might've been within a Summerset update.
If only I knew which updates were what I could pinpoint it easier.

KaironBlackbard

They should really add in-game the cap for block when you hover over the advanced stat.
Would help reduce stress of trying to make 100 if it's not possible because cap.
Also, a breakdown of how the number is generated, for pinpointing errors, because I know mine's having some.

KaironBlackbard

ok, retested
apparently my Destro isn't maxed yet
Guarded Stance isn't effecting the mitigation value.
Ice 72->67
Shield 77->67, GS Slotted
"While you have a shield equipped, the damage you can block is increased by 10% and the cost of block is reduced by 10%"
Doesn't say it has to be slotted, but even with it slotted it still doesn't modify my mitigation.

Ok, recalculating
Using what you keep claiming
Shield
50
20% (10)
R3 Anchor (12%[6])
Heavy 7
Footmans 8% (4)
That's 77, which is what it's claiming...
GS 10% (5) should be 82

Ice
50
10% (5)
17 R3,H,Ftmns
72...
Ok then, guess that's what it's doing...
Whish it broke that down when hovering over Mitigation

virtus753

Defensive Stance only says it has to be slotted in the green part of the tooltip when you have the base form and go to morph it. I think it should be updated to say “when slotted and with a shield equipped” in its normal tooltip.

While its blocking mitigation is not reflected in the Advanced Stats page, the mitigation does actually work when you test it by taking incoming damage. You just have to remember to add the 10% (or 5% additive) to your figure in Advanced Stats, just like with the projectile bonus from Deflect Bolts.

KaironBlackbard

I still want to know
A} Why does Guarded Stance not show in mitigation, since it's general not specific (like bolts is specific)
and B} When did they revert back to 50% base? I remember they reduced it to 30 because people were reaching cap too easily.
Actually, it might've been before summerset, before psijic and jewelry crafts were added to the game...
If only I could remember exactly when, I'd be able to pinpoint.

virtus753

A) Presumably a UI bug, like Ancient Knowledge and Sword and Board were. Hopefully they can fix that (I submitted another report yesterday) like they did with the others.

B ) I have no recollection of the game ever having a 30% base blocking mitigation or of any language suggesting a reversion to 50%, so I cannot help there. There was a way to reach 100% blocking mitigation, but that was why the 90% cap was introduced with Scalebreaker.

If the base mitigation had been 30% and everything made additive, it would actually have been easier to reach or exceed 100%:
30% base
20% sword and board or ice staff
20% bracing anchor active cp
4% fortification passive cp
7% all heavy armor
10% defensive stance
35% immovable with all heavy armor
8% Footman’s
30% Syrabane’s Ward

Ignoring class mitigation (Sorcs can get 40%; Templars and DKs 10%), you could reach 134% without someone providing you Syrabane’s (164% with it). Meanwhile, with the 50% base and all but heavy armor being multiplicative with that base, the same setup would be 109.5% (124.5% with Syrabane’s). There would still be a need for a cap because of that, but it is demonstrably harder to reach 100% or above with the 50% base and most things being multiplicative than 30% base with everything being additive.

code65536

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

When did they revert back to 50% base?

They never did. Because it was never changed from 50. I've been a tank main in this game for 8 years, and I have closely followed every single PTS in that time, and there has never, ever been a change to the base block mitigation. Never. It was never reverted to 50 because there has never been anything to revert.

KaironBlackbard

virtus753 wrote: »

A) Presumably a UI bug, like Ancient Knowledge and Sword and Board were. Hopefully they can fix that (I submitted another report yesterday) like they did with the others.

B ) I have no recollection of the game ever having a 30% base blocking mitigation or of any language suggesting a reversion to 50%, so I cannot help there. There was a way to reach 100% blocking mitigation, but that was why the 90% cap was introduced with Scalebreaker.

If the base mitigation had been 30% and everything made additive, it would actually have been easier to reach or exceed 100%:
30% base
20% sword and board or ice staff
20% bracing anchor active cp
4% fortification passive cp
7% all heavy armor
10% defensive stance
35% immovable with all heavy armor
8% Footman’s
30% Syrabane’s Ward

Ignoring class mitigation (Sorcs can get 40%; Templars and DKs 10%), you could reach 134% without someone providing you Syrabane’s (164% with it). Meanwhile, with the 50% base and all but heavy armor being multiplicative with that base, the same setup would be 109.5% (124.5% with Syrabane’s). There would still be a need for a cap because of that, but it is demonstrably harder to reach 100% or above with the 50% base and most things being multiplicative than 30% base with everything being additive.

Syrabanes does NOT apply to the wearer, only to their allies while they are blocking.
You need a friend also rocking syrabanes for you to gain the effect.
Paraphrased:
While blocking, you cannot move, but your nearby allies gain 30% more block mitigation.
I doubt it stacks though, otherwise 3/4 together would grant everyone capped mitigation.
Imagine them all also using block to heal and block to damage with infused bracing enchanted jewelry... Unkillable.
Oh I can't wait to get Clockwork and Summerset on Epic PC version... That'll be fun!

virtus753

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

A) Presumably a UI bug, like Ancient Knowledge and Sword and Board were. Hopefully they can fix that (I submitted another report yesterday) like they did with the others.

B ) I have no recollection of the game ever having a 30% base blocking mitigation or of any language suggesting a reversion to 50%, so I cannot help there. There was a way to reach 100% blocking mitigation, but that was why the 90% cap was introduced with Scalebreaker.

If the base mitigation had been 30% and everything made additive, it would actually have been easier to reach or exceed 100%:
30% base
20% sword and board or ice staff
20% bracing anchor active cp
4% fortification passive cp
7% all heavy armor
10% defensive stance
35% immovable with all heavy armor
8% Footman’s
30% Syrabane’s Ward

Ignoring class mitigation (Sorcs can get 40%; Templars and DKs 10%), you could reach 134% without someone providing you Syrabane’s (164% with it). Meanwhile, with the 50% base and all but heavy armor being multiplicative with that base, the same setup would be 109.5% (124.5% with Syrabane’s). There would still be a need for a cap because of that, but it is demonstrably harder to reach 100% or above with the 50% base and most things being multiplicative than 30% base with everything being additive.

Syrabanes does NOT apply to the wearer, only to their allies while they are blocking.
You need a friend also rocking syrabanes for you to gain the effect.
Paraphrased:
While blocking, you cannot move, but your nearby allies gain 30% more block mitigation.
I doubt it stacks though, otherwise 3/4 together would grant everyone capped mitigation.
Imagine them all also using block to heal and block to damage with infused bracing enchanted jewelry... Unkillable.
Oh I can't wait to get Clockwork and Summerset on Epic PC version... That'll be fun!

That is exactly why I said “without someone providing you Syrabane’s.”

No, it doesn’t stack, and no, I didn’t count it in the initial figures. The figures of 134% and 109.5% represent no Syrabane’s whatsoever, which you can check if you combine the other sources in the list.

KaironBlackbard

ok