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Ramping Cost for Nightblade Cloak
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StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.
https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
Not true. You are not wasting 45 seconds. The new buff to pots is awful. If you can't kill the nb when you reveal them then that's on bad players.
Asking for yet another nerf to cloak is absurd.
Most nbs hiding in stealth and using cloak are squishy like glass. [snip]
Nobody's saying anything about not being able to kill squishy NBs. Don't use a strawman argument against me dude.
My argument is the counters for Streak/Mist are more effective and require less sacrifice than the counters for Cloak. Movement speed is abundant and easy to get without sacrificing a lot, and gap closer is useful for all scenarios, not just against Streak. Meanwhile, a detect potion is only useful against NB, and I have to sacrifice Major Prophecy because I'm getting it from pots. Camo Hunter/Inner Light is only useful against NB and don't even work most of the time. I can use a gap closer to chase someone down, or use it with Rushing Agony or other sets to deal extra damage. I can't do that with Camo Hunter/Inner Light.
Cloak needs a ramping cost, and it's long overdue. If you can't play a NB without Cloak, then I could say it's something you need to improve on.
[edited to remove quote]
Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
If your saying you have no trouble killing nbs then why are you asking for a nerf? Survive the opening. Pop a detect pot, mage light, camo hunter, or any or the other nerfs in game. How exactly is the nb getting away? Especially if it's a detect pot? You can literally see them anywhere. Streak towards/through them and they dead.
Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
You straw manned me by saying it's a L2P issue to kill squishy NBs. Did I ever say anything about having difficulty killing squishy NBs?
The argument is about Cloak. You don't need to be a squishy NB to use Cloak. I can be in 30k resistance with 3.4k crit resist and still be able to use Cloak. Now I'm much harder to kill, and I can also disappear when I want. That's what many brawlerblades will be doing next patch with Cloak buff.
I'm sorry, but people like you add to the problem. Using strawman arguments to make yours appear more credible is a shameful tactic to try shutting down a legitimate balance request.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc1 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Said it once I'll say it again:
If you use streak 4+ times in a row, you will most likely get away from a fight.
No, you don't. Even if you do, you've just spent 20k worth of magicka for maybe 8-9 seconds of breathing room, then whoever was chasing you will be right up your arse, like me in this video:https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
He streaked 3x in a row, and I caught up to him in 7 seconds. Make it 9 seconds if he streaked 4 times. He probably wasted 15k mag right there. I wasted 2k stam from sprinting. I wasn't even in 3x swift, nor should I have refreshed Hurricane that early, but the point is I wasted much less resources than he did.
The argument that Streaking multiple times in a row allows you to get away is outdated. You could in the past. You can't in the present.
You’re wasting your time, I’ve been trying to get these guys onto the PTS to test some of their examples paired against ours and I’m hitting dead ends.6 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowProc wrote: »Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
Cloak is getting buffed next patch, allowing brawlerblades with 30k armor and 3.4k crit resistance access to one of the best defensive abilities in the game. That's a pretty strong reason to justify a ramping cost for NB. If you choose to play a squishy NB and rely completely on Cloak, that's not my problem.
I post balance request aiming at the current issues of PvP. I posted a thread asking for Relequen nerf because it can double proc, and got a lot of backlash telling me to l2p. Guess what? People are now calling for Relequen nerf. I mean, I told you so? Lol. People are quick to shut others down until it happens to them.ShadowProc wrote: »Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
Have you actually played other classes? I'm not trying to be toxic, but from my experience, NB mains who rely too much on Cloak develop this skewed view of balance and think any attempt at adjusting Cloak is bad.
Sorc mains do the same thing, but I also play other classes, including NB which I've mained for 6 months and reached Alliance Rank 32, and I've gotten out of the bubble. I know how strong Cloak is, and what counters it. You don't have to tell me that. But I can assure you that I 1vX much easier with Cloak than with Streak, despite my stamsorc being a Grand Overlord. I can also assure you that countering Streak is much easier than countering Cloak. You don't have to waste a potion or a bar space. You just need to use 3x Swift and Celerity CP lol.
Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc5 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Seriously? PvE players have at least some understanding of PvP issues, is it so hard to at least try to understand that eso also has a PvE element to it as well?
You really don’t understand the circumstances that cloak is used in PvE?
•••
Anyone doing any sort of criminal activity (pve) knows the benefits of cloak. And before you say something like “that’s just a small part of the game” please understand there were two dlcs that were “criminal activity” based.
There are also guards and npc residences that can be broken into.
So, yes, it’s used in pve.
In fact, since we all see the dwindling intrest in pvp, I would say more players use cloak in pve than pvp.3 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Seriously? PvE players have at least some understanding of PvP issues, is it so hard to at least try to understand that eso also has a PvE element to it as well?
You really don’t understand the circumstances that cloak is used in PvE?
•••
Anyone doing any sort of criminal activity (pve) knows the benefits of cloak. And before you say something like “that’s just a small part of the game” please understand there were two dlcs that were “criminal activity” based.
There are also guards and npc residences that can be broken into.
So, yes, it’s used in pve.
In fact, since we all see the dwindling intrest in pvp, I would say more players use cloak in pve than pvp.
So what's the purpose of Major Savagery on Cloak if you're trying to hide from Guards and NPCs and not actually fighting them?Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc4 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Make ramping block cost, ramping healing cost then talk
Nah, don't make block ramp in cost. Instead, make burst heals reduce in value when casted repeatedly while blocking. First cast is at 100% tooltip value, then each subsequent cast heals for 10-15% less. This won't affect PvE because heals aren't cut in half and it only requires 1-2 heals to get to full HP, but it would punish PvPers who block heal away from execute range. People who don't block won't get the penalty, so they're safe anyways.
Sounds right, but you can unhold block and repeat)
One way this could be worked around, is that tanks generally have an ice staff and a shield, which use different resources.
Assuming the ramp in cost reset for each resource type, it would be similar to Cloak if it got a ramp because it functions like a better roll dodge but instead of stamina, it’s with magicka…
What Nightblade veterans would do with a Cloak ramp is roll dodge and block for a second or roll dodge twice before going back into Cloak once or twice, effectively playing off of each other’s cost cooldowns. Which is something most Brawlers already do, effectively changing nothing about their playstyle.1 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Seriously? PvE players have at least some understanding of PvP issues, is it so hard to at least try to understand that eso also has a PvE element to it as well?
You really don’t understand the circumstances that cloak is used in PvE?
•••
Anyone doing any sort of criminal activity (pve) knows the benefits of cloak. And before you say something like “that’s just a small part of the game” please understand there were two dlcs that were “criminal activity” based.
There are also guards and npc residences that can be broken into.
So, yes, it’s used in pve.
In fact, since we all see the dwindling intrest in pvp, I would say more players use cloak in pve than pvp.
All this has done is point out the disparity in trying to complete Heists and Dark Brotherhood Contracts as any class other than Nightblade.
Maybe all classes should have access to a spammable invisibility to completely coin the crime system like Nightblade.4 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Said it once I'll say it again:
If you use streak 4+ times in a row, you will most likely get away from a fight.
No, you don't. Even if you do, you've just spent 20k worth of magicka for maybe 8-9 seconds of breathing room, then whoever was chasing you will be right up your arse, like me in this video:https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
He streaked 3x in a row, and I caught up to him in 7 seconds. Make it 9 seconds if he streaked 4 times. He probably wasted 15k mag right there. I wasted 2k stam from sprinting. I wasn't even in 3x swift, nor should I have refreshed Hurricane that early, but the point is I wasted much less resources than he did.
The argument that Streaking multiple times in a row allows you to get away is outdated. You could in the past. You can't in the present.
You’re wasting your time, I’ve been trying to get these guys onto the PTS to test some of their examples paired against ours and I’m hitting dead ends.
Yea, this is what happens when anyone tries to make any balance suggestions about NB. Their thread gets bombarded with “l2p” comments from NB mains who clearly never played other classes or tried non cloak builds.
I saw this coming anyways. When ZoS designed a class around stealth, people are naturally inclined to crutch on it and defend it at all cost. What they fail to realize is NB benefitted tremendously from hybridization and the class is no longer squishy.
There’s nothing stopping tanky brawlerblades from using Cloak next patch and be nigh unkillable.
I can’t wait to fight good brawlerblades like @React and @Alchimiste1 who will now have stealth on top of their 30k armor, 4k+ crit resist, Major Evasion, and all kinds of debuffs making them even tankier
Sounds very fun! Edited by StaticWave on 15 July 2023 06:12Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc5 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Said it once I'll say it again:
If you use streak 4+ times in a row, you will most likely get away from a fight.
No, you don't. Even if you do, you've just spent 20k worth of magicka for maybe 8-9 seconds of breathing room, then whoever was chasing you will be right up your arse, like me in this video:https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
He streaked 3x in a row, and I caught up to him in 7 seconds. Make it 9 seconds if he streaked 4 times. He probably wasted 15k mag right there. I wasted 2k stam from sprinting. I wasn't even in 3x swift, nor should I have refreshed Hurricane that early, but the point is I wasted much less resources than he did.
The argument that Streaking multiple times in a row allows you to get away is outdated. You could in the past. You can't in the present.
And neither does cloak. With these new detect pots in counters all nbs in the area. They are constantly up. There is no pot that counters all sorcs in the area is there?
Trying to get away while being detected burns all our resources too.2 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
Not true. You are not wasting 45 seconds. The new buff to pots is awful. If you can't kill the nb when you reveal them then that's on bad players.
Asking for yet another nerf to cloak is absurd.
Most nbs hiding in stealth and using cloak are squishy like glass. [snip]
Nobody's saying anything about not being able to kill squishy NBs. Don't use a strawman argument against me dude.
My argument is the counters for Streak/Mist are more effective and require less sacrifice than the counters for Cloak. Movement speed is abundant and easy to get without sacrificing a lot, and gap closer is useful for all scenarios, not just against Streak. Meanwhile, a detect potion is only useful against NB, and I have to sacrifice Major Prophecy because I'm getting it from pots. Camo Hunter/Inner Light is only useful against NB and don't even work most of the time. I can use a gap closer to chase someone down, or use it with Rushing Agony or other sets to deal extra damage. I can't do that with Camo Hunter/Inner Light.
Cloak needs a ramping cost, and it's long overdue. If you can't play a NB without Cloak, then I could say it's something you need to improve on.
[edited to remove quote]
Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
If your saying you have no trouble killing nbs then why are you asking for a nerf? Survive the opening. Pop a detect pot, mage light, camo hunter, or any or the other nerfs in game. How exactly is the nb getting away? Especially if it's a detect pot? You can literally see them anywhere. Streak towards/through them and they dead.
Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
You straw manned me by saying it's a L2P issue to kill squishy NBs. Did I ever say anything about having difficulty killing squishy NBs?
The argument is about Cloak. You don't need to be a squishy NB to use Cloak. I can be in 30k resistance with 3.4k crit resist and still be able to use Cloak. Now I'm much harder to kill, and I can also disappear when I want. That's what many brawlerblades will be doing next patch with Cloak buff.
I'm sorry, but people like you add to the problem. Using strawman arguments to make yours appear more credible is a shameful tactic to try shutting down a legitimate balance request.
This is laughable. You post daily nerf threads. I have seen one of them be close to reasonable. There is one person spamming for nerfs daily. And it's not me.3 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
Cloak is getting buffed next patch, allowing brawlerblades with 30k armor and 3.4k crit resistance access to one of the best defensive abilities in the game. That's a pretty strong reason to justify a ramping cost for NB. If you choose to play a squishy NB and rely completely on Cloak, that's not my problem.
I post balance request aiming at the current issues of PvP. I posted a thread asking for Relequen nerf because it can double proc, and got a lot of backlash telling me to l2p. Guess what? People are now calling for Relequen nerf. I mean, I told you so? Lol. People are quick to shut others down until it happens to them.ShadowProc wrote: »Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
Have you actually played other classes? I'm not trying to be toxic, but from my experience, NB mains who rely too much on Cloak develop this skewed view of balance and think any attempt at adjusting Cloak is bad.
Sorc mains do the same thing, but I also play other classes, including NB which I've mained for 6 months and reached Alliance Rank 32, and I've gotten out of the bubble. I know how strong Cloak is, and what counters it. You don't have to tell me that. But I can assure you that I 1vX much easier with Cloak than with Streak, despite my stamsorc being a Grand Overlord. I can also assure you that countering Streak is much easier than countering Cloak. You don't have to waste a potion or a bar space. You just need to use 3x Swift and Celerity CP lol.
I have played every class since launch. And have mained each class at one point or another. I have never asked for a nerf that would kill a playstyle. The last thing we need is less ayers on this game.
The smarter players call for buffs to other classes to being them up to par. Not nerf everything to make the tank meta tankier2 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Said it once I'll say it again:
If you use streak 4+ times in a row, you will most likely get away from a fight.
No, you don't. Even if you do, you've just spent 20k worth of magicka for maybe 8-9 seconds of breathing room, then whoever was chasing you will be right up your arse, like me in this video:https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
He streaked 3x in a row, and I caught up to him in 7 seconds. Make it 9 seconds if he streaked 4 times. He probably wasted 15k mag right there. I wasted 2k stam from sprinting. I wasn't even in 3x swift, nor should I have refreshed Hurricane that early, but the point is I wasted much less resources than he did.
The argument that Streaking multiple times in a row allows you to get away is outdated. You could in the past. You can't in the present.
And neither does cloak. With these new detect pots in counters all nbs in the area. They are constantly up. There is no pot that counters all sorcs in the area is there?
Trying to get away while being detected burns all our resources too.
You still don't get it do you?
Wasting 45s of sustain from Tri pot, Spell/Weapon Crit pot, or even Armor pot for 15s of detect is a HUGE sacrifice compared to say, using 3x Swift and Celerity CP.
You clearly don't play other classes or Sorc. If you did, you would know how easy it is to counter Streak and how difficult it is to counter Cloak without making major sacrifices.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc4 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
Cloak is getting buffed next patch, allowing brawlerblades with 30k armor and 3.4k crit resistance access to one of the best defensive abilities in the game. That's a pretty strong reason to justify a ramping cost for NB. If you choose to play a squishy NB and rely completely on Cloak, that's not my problem.
Skilled and experienced NBs do not rely on cloak to escape because it is not one of the best defensive abilities in the game. Experienced NBs have other skills to help them escape similarly skilled players that know how to use the counters.
The only time it is a surefire escape is when against players who choose to not use a counter. It is so easy to pawn a NB that relies on cloak to escape.
4 -
warm_blanket✭✭Any spammable that can stall fights should have some form of ramping cost. Cloak is no exception (neither are burst heals).
There is one caveat with applying ramping to cloak. NB is already tilted towards stacking mag since nearly all their best skills are mag / use mag morphs. Increasing the mag consumption on cloak would dumpster stam specs even harder.
Before applying ramp up it makes sense to split the cost of cloak into 50/50 mag+stam, like molten whip.0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
Not true. You are not wasting 45 seconds. The new buff to pots is awful. If you can't kill the nb when you reveal them then that's on bad players.
Asking for yet another nerf to cloak is absurd.
Most nbs hiding in stealth and using cloak are squishy like glass. [snip]
Nobody's saying anything about not being able to kill squishy NBs. Don't use a strawman argument against me dude.
My argument is the counters for Streak/Mist are more effective and require less sacrifice than the counters for Cloak. Movement speed is abundant and easy to get without sacrificing a lot, and gap closer is useful for all scenarios, not just against Streak. Meanwhile, a detect potion is only useful against NB, and I have to sacrifice Major Prophecy because I'm getting it from pots. Camo Hunter/Inner Light is only useful against NB and don't even work most of the time. I can use a gap closer to chase someone down, or use it with Rushing Agony or other sets to deal extra damage. I can't do that with Camo Hunter/Inner Light.
Cloak needs a ramping cost, and it's long overdue. If you can't play a NB without Cloak, then I could say it's something you need to improve on.
[edited to remove quote]
Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
If your saying you have no trouble killing nbs then why are you asking for a nerf? Survive the opening. Pop a detect pot, mage light, camo hunter, or any or the other nerfs in game. How exactly is the nb getting away? Especially if it's a detect pot? You can literally see them anywhere. Streak towards/through them and they dead.
Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
You straw manned me by saying it's a L2P issue to kill squishy NBs. Did I ever say anything about having difficulty killing squishy NBs?
The argument is about Cloak. You don't need to be a squishy NB to use Cloak. I can be in 30k resistance with 3.4k crit resist and still be able to use Cloak. Now I'm much harder to kill, and I can also disappear when I want. That's what many brawlerblades will be doing next patch with Cloak buff.
I'm sorry, but people like you add to the problem. Using strawman arguments to make yours appear more credible is a shameful tactic to try shutting down a legitimate balance request.
This is laughable. You post daily nerf threads. I have seen one of them be close to reasonable. There is one person spamming for nerfs daily. And it's not me.
I made a thread about Relequen being broken and it got a bunch of backlash. Guess what? Now everyone is realizing it's broken.
Most of my threads are legitimate complaints. I am also open to discussion, but people just don't want to discuss.Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc1 -
ebix_✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
Did you read the whole thread before commenting that? @NyassaV?you can counter cloak and you cannot counter streak nearly as easily. Consider carrying detect potions.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Or pop a speed pot and catch any escaping player with ease, rendering Streak useless defensively.
You can find sets, and abilities, that counter ANYTHING in this game, completely.
The difference is that you can passively build against Streak and Mist Form by building movement speed, only one class benefits from stealth gameplay so you’re suggesting everyone build specifically into shutting down Cloak?
What about all 6 other classes you come across?
Just drop Major Sorcery for 50 seconds to fit a few seconds of Detect? It’s the same argument you’re going to make about chugging Speed pots.
You described Streak as “most likely” allowing you to escape after use in comparison to Cloak having “no guarantee” to escape, are you aware that “most likely” is “no guarantee”?
That you have “no guarantee” to escape a player by using Streak while easily countering it by adding any increase of movement speed to your build or slotting any gap closer for the innumerable other buffs that they provide while building into Cloak detect you are putting abilities that are extremely lacking against the 6 other classes onto your bar, taking up much needed bar space.
I understand why you would have that opinion though, as a Nightblade you don’t have a want for bar space like every other class. Even Dragonknights have to have internal battles about where to put Molten Armaments.
So do what every decent player does. Pop a detect pot. Good players have no trouble tackling and killing a nb with a pot.
I’m not a decent player? Do you have PTS?
My in-game is Tyrant_Tim, kill my MagBlade with any of your characters.
Damn!! [snip] Thx for openning my eyes dude.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 15 July 2023 10:140 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
Did you read the whole thread before commenting that? @NyassaV?you can counter cloak and you cannot counter streak nearly as easily. Consider carrying detect potions.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Or pop a speed pot and catch any escaping player with ease, rendering Streak useless defensively.
You can find sets, and abilities, that counter ANYTHING in this game, completely.
The difference is that you can passively build against Streak and Mist Form by building movement speed, only one class benefits from stealth gameplay so you’re suggesting everyone build specifically into shutting down Cloak?
What about all 6 other classes you come across?
Just drop Major Sorcery for 50 seconds to fit a few seconds of Detect? It’s the same argument you’re going to make about chugging Speed pots.
You described Streak as “most likely” allowing you to escape after use in comparison to Cloak having “no guarantee” to escape, are you aware that “most likely” is “no guarantee”?
That you have “no guarantee” to escape a player by using Streak while easily countering it by adding any increase of movement speed to your build or slotting any gap closer for the innumerable other buffs that they provide while building into Cloak detect you are putting abilities that are extremely lacking against the 6 other classes onto your bar, taking up much needed bar space.
I understand why you would have that opinion though, as a Nightblade you don’t have a want for bar space like every other class. Even Dragonknights have to have internal battles about where to put Molten Armaments.
So do what every decent player does. Pop a detect pot. Good players have no trouble tackling and killing a nb with a pot.
I’m not a decent player? Do you have PTS?
My in-game is Tyrant_Tim, kill my MagBlade with any of your characters.
Damn!! [snip] Thx for openning my eyes dude.
It’s an open invite, feel free to take it. PTS is dead, you have to motivate people to get on and test builds out apparently, instead of talking in circles with people about things they insist are right when they are far from it, it’s an invite to prove your point.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 15 July 2023 10:161 -
ebix_✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
Did you read the whole thread before commenting that? @NyassaV?you can counter cloak and you cannot counter streak nearly as easily. Consider carrying detect potions.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Or pop a speed pot and catch any escaping player with ease, rendering Streak useless defensively.
You can find sets, and abilities, that counter ANYTHING in this game, completely.
The difference is that you can passively build against Streak and Mist Form by building movement speed, only one class benefits from stealth gameplay so you’re suggesting everyone build specifically into shutting down Cloak?
What about all 6 other classes you come across?
Just drop Major Sorcery for 50 seconds to fit a few seconds of Detect? It’s the same argument you’re going to make about chugging Speed pots.
You described Streak as “most likely” allowing you to escape after use in comparison to Cloak having “no guarantee” to escape, are you aware that “most likely” is “no guarantee”?
That you have “no guarantee” to escape a player by using Streak while easily countering it by adding any increase of movement speed to your build or slotting any gap closer for the innumerable other buffs that they provide while building into Cloak detect you are putting abilities that are extremely lacking against the 6 other classes onto your bar, taking up much needed bar space.
I understand why you would have that opinion though, as a Nightblade you don’t have a want for bar space like every other class. Even Dragonknights have to have internal battles about where to put Molten Armaments.
So do what every decent player does. Pop a detect pot. Good players have no trouble tackling and killing a nb with a pot.
I’m not a decent player? Do you have PTS?
My in-game is Tyrant_Tim, kill my MagBlade with any of your characters.
Damn!! [snip] Thx for openning my eyes dude.
It’s an open invite, feel free to take it. PTS is dead, you have to motivate people to get on and test builds out apparently, instead of talking in circles with people about things they insist are right when they are far from it, it’s an invite to prove your point.
Imagine being asked to provide proof of a claim.
dont have pts but if it can be tested in live I'm in EU, can help you with it.
I dont know what do you want to test tho!
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 15 July 2023 10:170 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
Did you read the whole thread before commenting that? @NyassaV?you can counter cloak and you cannot counter streak nearly as easily. Consider carrying detect potions.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Or pop a speed pot and catch any escaping player with ease, rendering Streak useless defensively.
You can find sets, and abilities, that counter ANYTHING in this game, completely.
The difference is that you can passively build against Streak and Mist Form by building movement speed, only one class benefits from stealth gameplay so you’re suggesting everyone build specifically into shutting down Cloak?
What about all 6 other classes you come across?
Just drop Major Sorcery for 50 seconds to fit a few seconds of Detect? It’s the same argument you’re going to make about chugging Speed pots.
You described Streak as “most likely” allowing you to escape after use in comparison to Cloak having “no guarantee” to escape, are you aware that “most likely” is “no guarantee”?
That you have “no guarantee” to escape a player by using Streak while easily countering it by adding any increase of movement speed to your build or slotting any gap closer for the innumerable other buffs that they provide while building into Cloak detect you are putting abilities that are extremely lacking against the 6 other classes onto your bar, taking up much needed bar space.
I understand why you would have that opinion though, as a Nightblade you don’t have a want for bar space like every other class. Even Dragonknights have to have internal battles about where to put Molten Armaments.
So do what every decent player does. Pop a detect pot. Good players have no trouble tackling and killing a nb with a pot.
I’m not a decent player? Do you have PTS?
My in-game is Tyrant_Tim, kill my MagBlade with any of your characters.
Damn!! [snip] Thx for openning my eyes dude.
It’s an open invite, feel free to take it. PTS is dead, you have to motivate people to get on and test builds out apparently, instead of talking in circles with people about things they insist are right when they are far from it, it’s an invite to prove your point.
Imagine being asked to provide proof of a claim.
dont have pts but if it can be tested in live I'm in EU, can help you with it.
I dont know what do you want to test tho!
I don’t play ESO on PC, but I installed the PTS on my desktop to help test new patches.
If you don’t believe how broken Cloak is when you have no Stealth Detection, I can show you.
Even with Camo Hunter or Inner Light, it won’t matter. You specifically have to run the increased radius stealth pulls or detect pots to get a heavy attack off on someone using Cloak, especially after the Lightning Staff and Restoration Staff changes where you can dodge the final tick from a few patches ago. You have be faster than the Nightblade to stay on top of them with Stealth pullers which MagBlade gets Minor and Major Expedition through it’s in-class kit so good luck.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 15 July 2023 10:173 -
Tyrant_Tim✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I digress, it doesn’t matter how much evidence you’re willing to provide, if people are going to avoid discussion points when you’re engaged in a debate due to bias, there’s no point to the conversation.
Anyone that opens this thread up and reads the whole thing from an impartial view would share the same opinion which is, that having to go so drastically out of your way to fight against one variant of one specific class in a game with seven of them, each with their own separate build variants, while sacrificing your efficiency against those other six classes, is too much of a cost for the majority of people.
I’ve made my stance and point very clear, and I’m done participating in this discussion, good luck @StaticWave.Edited by Tyrant_Tim on 15 July 2023 08:293 -
ebix_✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
Did you read the whole thread before commenting that? @NyassaV?you can counter cloak and you cannot counter streak nearly as easily. Consider carrying detect potions.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Or pop a speed pot and catch any escaping player with ease, rendering Streak useless defensively.
You can find sets, and abilities, that counter ANYTHING in this game, completely.
The difference is that you can passively build against Streak and Mist Form by building movement speed, only one class benefits from stealth gameplay so you’re suggesting everyone build specifically into shutting down Cloak?
What about all 6 other classes you come across?
Just drop Major Sorcery for 50 seconds to fit a few seconds of Detect? It’s the same argument you’re going to make about chugging Speed pots.
You described Streak as “most likely” allowing you to escape after use in comparison to Cloak having “no guarantee” to escape, are you aware that “most likely” is “no guarantee”?
That you have “no guarantee” to escape a player by using Streak while easily countering it by adding any increase of movement speed to your build or slotting any gap closer for the innumerable other buffs that they provide while building into Cloak detect you are putting abilities that are extremely lacking against the 6 other classes onto your bar, taking up much needed bar space.
I understand why you would have that opinion though, as a Nightblade you don’t have a want for bar space like every other class. Even Dragonknights have to have internal battles about where to put Molten Armaments.
So do what every decent player does. Pop a detect pot. Good players have no trouble tackling and killing a nb with a pot.
I’m not a decent player? Do you have PTS?
My in-game is Tyrant_Tim, kill my MagBlade with any of your characters.
Damn!! [snip] Thx for openning my eyes dude.
It’s an open invite, feel free to take it. PTS is dead, you have to motivate people to get on and test builds out apparently, instead of talking in circles with people about things they insist are right when they are far from it, it’s an invite to prove your point.
Imagine being asked to provide proof of a claim.
dont have pts but if it can be tested in live I'm in EU, can help you with it.
I dont know what do you want to test tho!
I don’t play ESO on PC, but I installed the PTS on my desktop to help test new patches.
If you don’t believe how broken Cloak is when you have no Stealth Detection, I can show you. Even with Camo Hunter or Inner Light, it won’t matter. You specifically have to run the increased radius stealth pulls or detect pots to get a heavy attack off on someone using Cloak, especially after the Lightning Staff and Restoration Staff changes where you can dodge the final tick from a few patches ago. You have be faster than the Nightblade to stay on top of them with Stealth pullers which MagBlade gets Minor and Major Expedition through it’s in-class kit so good luck.
I have been playing blade mostly with Dark Cloak but recently I'm using Shadow Cloak and I'm gonna give you detail of my experience with it against other classes. Mind thats my perspective of a melee blade since cloak for ranged blades is harder to counter.
Dragon knight: which I played alot as well is probably the best counter to blade. When I played Vs blade on my dk I kept them mostly on defense because of dot pressure And constantly break their cloak with Volatile Armor or Breath, and when I play against a Dk I have to know that healing that pressure gonna cost alot and I cant afford to cast multipe cloaks if its going to break.
MagSorc: If they are good I probably have 2-3 second to reach them and attack them unless they dont know I'm around but when they know I'm about to run they either break my cloak with streak or keep casting Curse for the faster explosion part and if I keep Cloaking I will be out of mag Sooner than them.
StamSorc: recently feels like a squishy Dk with more movement, and not only they have Curse and Streak they also have CamoHunter so Probably the best to break your Stealth. Now one common mistake I see is People cast CamoHunter after a Blade uses Cloak which can work but the best way is to Cast it before they cast Cloak.
Blade: Blade vs blade comes down to which one Read opponents combo better, Cloak can be a problem if one is trying to run but in my experience a blade with Shadow Image is harder to kill and punish than a blade with Cloak.
Warden: Now Warden is the only class that is allowed to complain about cloak, other than potion they dont have a reliable tool to counter Cloak.
Templar: they have Purifying Light and Jabs and Toppling charge that uncloaks you here and there, but I think templar is Very effective against blade with a detect pot. I rely alot on Breaking their beam with cloak but when they have detection and I'm not aware of it I'm gonna be in a situation very hard to recover.
Arcanist: I dont have much experience against good ones other than a few ones who knew how to counter cloak by precasting CamoHunter. I'm not familiar with their toolkit so I dont know what they can use to counter Cloak.
Necro: RIP.
All that said, I think Camohunter and magelight need a reduce to cost. Also Cloak should break when you cast a damaging skill rather than when your damage lands to counter ranged blades who can abuse this delay to get away easier, For example this helps you to see where you are getting snipped from rather than looking for attacker after you got hit.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 15 July 2023 10:186 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShadowProc wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
Did you read the whole thread before commenting that? @NyassaV?you can counter cloak and you cannot counter streak nearly as easily. Consider carrying detect potions.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Or pop a speed pot and catch any escaping player with ease, rendering Streak useless defensively.
You can find sets, and abilities, that counter ANYTHING in this game, completely.
The difference is that you can passively build against Streak and Mist Form by building movement speed, only one class benefits from stealth gameplay so you’re suggesting everyone build specifically into shutting down Cloak?
What about all 6 other classes you come across?
Just drop Major Sorcery for 50 seconds to fit a few seconds of Detect? It’s the same argument you’re going to make about chugging Speed pots.
You described Streak as “most likely” allowing you to escape after use in comparison to Cloak having “no guarantee” to escape, are you aware that “most likely” is “no guarantee”?
That you have “no guarantee” to escape a player by using Streak while easily countering it by adding any increase of movement speed to your build or slotting any gap closer for the innumerable other buffs that they provide while building into Cloak detect you are putting abilities that are extremely lacking against the 6 other classes onto your bar, taking up much needed bar space.
I understand why you would have that opinion though, as a Nightblade you don’t have a want for bar space like every other class. Even Dragonknights have to have internal battles about where to put Molten Armaments.
So do what every decent player does. Pop a detect pot. Good players have no trouble tackling and killing a nb with a pot.
Maybe NB should do what every good NB does and dodge roll an additional time and/or slot healthy offering and use it instead of relying ONLY on cloak for defense. Good NB have no trouble easily evading, out ranging and out healing during the limited reveal window that the detect pots provide.2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »
Seriously? PvE players have at least some understanding of PvP issues, is it so hard to at least try to understand that eso also has a PvE element to it as well?
You really don’t understand the circumstances that cloak is used in PvE?
•••
Anyone doing any sort of criminal activity (pve) knows the benefits of cloak. And before you say something like “that’s just a small part of the game” please understand there were two dlcs that were “criminal activity” based.
There are also guards and npc residences that can be broken into.
So, yes, it’s used in pve.
In fact, since we all see the dwindling intrest in pvp, I would say more players use cloak in pve than pvp.
So what's the purpose of Major Savagery on Cloak if you're trying to hide from Guards and NPCs and not actually fighting them?
You do know guards can’t be harmed, right? So the addition of major savegry is exactly what the developers claim it’s for. To make the so we lol serve a purpose when stealth is not needed.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
Seriously? PvE players have at least some understanding of PvP issues, is it so hard to at least try to understand that eso also has a PvE element to it as well?
You really don’t understand the circumstances that cloak is used in PvE?
•••
Anyone doing any sort of criminal activity (pve) knows the benefits of cloak. And before you say something like “that’s just a small part of the game” please understand there were two dlcs that were “criminal activity” based.
There are also guards and npc residences that can be broken into.
So, yes, it’s used in pve.
In fact, since we all see the dwindling intrest in pvp, I would say more players use cloak in pve than pvp.
All this has done is point out the disparity in trying to complete Heists and Dark Brotherhood Contracts as any class other than Nightblade.
Maybe all classes should have access to a spammable invisibility to completely coin the crime system like Nightblade.
All classes have some situational Utility that makes them unique. Sorcs thrive in Vateshran Hollows because their teleport ability negates an important mechanic.
Warden bears can lock down (tank) an opponent. (Etc)
All classes are special.
••••
Here is an unpleasant fact about pvp that players probably don’t want to hear.
Ready?
In a perfectly balanced pvp setting, players should be dying at 50% of all encounters.
If you kill more players then you are dying to, you have no right to complain. In fact, you probably need a nerf.
So a nb killed you. How many arcanists, wardens, and necros do you die to in 1v1. Because if you have a greater than 50% success rate you are more of a problem than some random nbs.
Rock says: “Nerf paper, scissors are fine.”4 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Said it once I'll say it again:
If you use streak 4+ times in a row, you will most likely get away from a fight.
No, you don't. Even if you do, you've just spent 20k worth of magicka for maybe 8-9 seconds of breathing room, then whoever was chasing you will be right up your arse, like me in this video:https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
He streaked 3x in a row, and I caught up to him in 7 seconds. Make it 9 seconds if he streaked 4 times. He probably wasted 15k mag right there. I wasted 2k stam from sprinting. I wasn't even in 3x swift, nor should I have refreshed Hurricane that early, but the point is I wasted much less resources than he did.
The argument that Streaking multiple times in a row allows you to get away is outdated. You could in the past. You can't in the present.
You’re wasting your time, I’ve been trying to get these guys onto the PTS to test some of their examples paired against ours and I’m hitting dead ends.
Agreed, it would be more tolerable if the countless NB mains trolling the forums stayed off threads asking for buffs to sorcs instead of screaming, shouting and crying about sorcs getting anything resembling a fix, buff or QoL improvement that is a mere fraction of what NBs have received over the past year.3 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Said it once I'll say it again:
If you use streak 4+ times in a row, you will most likely get away from a fight.
No, you don't. Even if you do, you've just spent 20k worth of magicka for maybe 8-9 seconds of breathing room, then whoever was chasing you will be right up your arse, like me in this video:https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
He streaked 3x in a row, and I caught up to him in 7 seconds. Make it 9 seconds if he streaked 4 times. He probably wasted 15k mag right there. I wasted 2k stam from sprinting. I wasn't even in 3x swift, nor should I have refreshed Hurricane that early, but the point is I wasted much less resources than he did.
The argument that Streaking multiple times in a row allows you to get away is outdated. You could in the past. You can't in the present.
And neither does cloak. With these new detect pots in counters all nbs in the area. They are constantly up. There is no pot that counters all sorcs in the area is there?
Trying to get away while being detected burns all our resources too.
You still don't get it do you?
Wasting 45s of sustain from Tri pot, Spell/Weapon Crit pot, or even Armor pot for 15s of detect is a HUGE sacrifice compared to say, using 3x Swift and Celerity CP.
You clearly don't play other classes or Sorc. If you did, you would know how easy it is to counter Streak and how difficult it is to counter Cloak without making major sacrifices.
No. You still don't get it. Its a I win button against most nightblades. There is no comparison to others. Give me a pot that renders your class useless.
Again, I have played since launch. I have 18 toons.
Giving up three traits and a CP is a huge sacrifice and it doesn't guarantee a kill. A pot does almost guarantee a kill.4 -
Bokila✭✭✭Make it so the guards don't chase me for 500 meters while i am trying to escape them then? Do 2 streaks and you are out of the detection radius but you literally have to spam cloak till you run out of resources to escape some random guards.3 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭StaticWave wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Said it once I'll say it again:
If you use streak 4+ times in a row, you will most likely get away from a fight.
No, you don't. Even if you do, you've just spent 20k worth of magicka for maybe 8-9 seconds of breathing room, then whoever was chasing you will be right up your arse, like me in this video:https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
He streaked 3x in a row, and I caught up to him in 7 seconds. Make it 9 seconds if he streaked 4 times. He probably wasted 15k mag right there. I wasted 2k stam from sprinting. I wasn't even in 3x swift, nor should I have refreshed Hurricane that early, but the point is I wasted much less resources than he did.
The argument that Streaking multiple times in a row allows you to get away is outdated. You could in the past. You can't in the present.
You’re wasting your time, I’ve been trying to get these guys onto the PTS to test some of their examples paired against ours and I’m hitting dead ends.
Yea, this is what happens when anyone tries to make any balance suggestions about NB. Their thread gets bombarded with “l2p” comments from NB mains who clearly never played other classes or tried non cloak builds.
I saw this coming anyways. When ZoS designed a class around stealth, people are naturally inclined to crutch on it and defend it at all cost. What they fail to realize is NB benefitted tremendously from hybridization and the class is no longer squishy.
There’s nothing stopping tanky brawlerblades from using Cloak next patch and be nigh unkillable.
I can’t wait to fight good brawlerblades like @React and @Alchimiste1 who will now have stealth on top of their 30k armor, 4k+ crit resist, Major Evasion, and all kinds of debuffs making them even tankier Sounds very fun!
yeah, same here. I'm just glad I managed to lock in the perfect name for my NB and you can bet I will be abusing these buffs to NB like crazy when I get the chance to play next patch.0 -
Foxtrot39✭✭✭✭
Either to avoid trash fight or like me have fun getting easy position with blade of woe on valid targets
More usefull use is the daily thief/DB mission or to escape guardsEdited by Foxtrot39 on 15 July 2023 11:081 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Shadowy Disguise is not any close to mechanic of streak and mist form. Besides game give you many ways to counter it. Its like adding ramping cost to any other skill, that you dont like such as Elemental Susceptibility (still 0 cost lol), Vigor etc.
And only 1 of them is actually reliable enough to be used, which is Detect Potions, which just recently got buffed. Even then, you are wasting 45s of better potions like Tripots or Armor pots, or an entire skill slot that has no use out side of countering 1 class that so happens to be obnoxiously common in Cyrodiil PvP
Meanwhile, Streak and Mist Form are easily countered by slotting a gap closer, which also has multiple uses outside of countering Streak and Mist users (for example, Rushing Agony with Stampede is widely used to bomb zergs). Heck, even sprinting is sufficient to counter a Streak/Mist user. I mean just look at this video where I chased down a magsorc with just sprinting.https://youtu.be/tfWfyBZbFfg
Not true. You are not wasting 45 seconds. The new buff to pots is awful. If you can't kill the nb when you reveal them then that's on bad players.
Asking for yet another nerf to cloak is absurd.
Most nbs hiding in stealth and using cloak are squishy like glass. [snip]
Nobody's saying anything about not being able to kill squishy NBs. Don't use a strawman argument against me dude.
My argument is the counters for Streak/Mist are more effective and require less sacrifice than the counters for Cloak. Movement speed is abundant and easy to get without sacrificing a lot, and gap closer is useful for all scenarios, not just against Streak. Meanwhile, a detect potion is only useful against NB, and I have to sacrifice Major Prophecy because I'm getting it from pots. Camo Hunter/Inner Light is only useful against NB and don't even work most of the time. I can use a gap closer to chase someone down, or use it with Rushing Agony or other sets to deal extra damage. I can't do that with Camo Hunter/Inner Light.
Cloak needs a ramping cost, and it's long overdue. If you can't play a NB without Cloak, then I could say it's something you need to improve on.
[edited to remove quote]
Straw man argument? I haven't heard a single reason yet that justifies what you all are asking for. I might be wrong but don't you post different daily nerf posts?
If your saying you have no trouble killing nbs then why are you asking for a nerf? Survive the opening. Pop a detect pot, mage light, camo hunter, or any or the other nerfs in game. How exactly is the nb getting away? Especially if it's a detect pot? You can literally see them anywhere. Streak towards/through them and they dead.
Straw man argument? You mean like saying you shouldn't have to use the most powerful counter because you have to wait 45 seconds to use another? Like seriously. That's as strawman as it gets.
You straw manned me by saying it's a L2P issue to kill squishy NBs. Did I ever say anything about having difficulty killing squishy NBs?
The argument is about Cloak. You don't need to be a squishy NB to use Cloak. I can be in 30k resistance with 3.4k crit resist and still be able to use Cloak. Now I'm much harder to kill, and I can also disappear when I want. That's what many brawlerblades will be doing next patch with Cloak buff.
I'm sorry, but people like you add to the problem. Using strawman arguments to make yours appear more credible is a shameful tactic to try shutting down a legitimate balance request.
This is laughable. You post daily nerf threads. I have seen one of them be close to reasonable. There is one person spamming for nerfs daily. And it's not me.
I made a thread about Relequen being broken and it got a bunch of backlash. Guess what? Now everyone is realizing it's broken.
Most of my threads are legitimate complaints. I am also open to discussion, but people just don't want to discuss.
Agree to disagree. As do most others to your posts. They are centered around all classes but your own. Hence the large amount of feedback you get to l2p. Sorry man, but it is what it is. You are entitled to your opinions but if you post that amount expect not to be taken seriously. [snip]
Clearly Zos feels its underperforming, which I disagree with, and is buffing it. Which is too bad as I feel it's fine the way it is.
The compromise should be to cancel the buff and leave it alone.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 18 July 2023 13:172 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »ShadowProc wrote: »Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
Did you read the whole thread before commenting that? @NyassaV?you can counter cloak and you cannot counter streak nearly as easily. Consider carrying detect potions.Tyrant_Tim wrote: »Or pop a speed pot and catch any escaping player with ease, rendering Streak useless defensively.
You can find sets, and abilities, that counter ANYTHING in this game, completely.
The difference is that you can passively build against Streak and Mist Form by building movement speed, only one class benefits from stealth gameplay so you’re suggesting everyone build specifically into shutting down Cloak?
What about all 6 other classes you come across?
Just drop Major Sorcery for 50 seconds to fit a few seconds of Detect? It’s the same argument you’re going to make about chugging Speed pots.
You described Streak as “most likely” allowing you to escape after use in comparison to Cloak having “no guarantee” to escape, are you aware that “most likely” is “no guarantee”?
That you have “no guarantee” to escape a player by using Streak while easily countering it by adding any increase of movement speed to your build or slotting any gap closer for the innumerable other buffs that they provide while building into Cloak detect you are putting abilities that are extremely lacking against the 6 other classes onto your bar, taking up much needed bar space.
I understand why you would have that opinion though, as a Nightblade you don’t have a want for bar space like every other class. Even Dragonknights have to have internal battles about where to put Molten Armaments.
So do what every decent player does. Pop a detect pot. Good players have no trouble tackling and killing a nb with a pot.
I’m not a decent player? Do you have PTS?
My in-game is Tyrant_Tim, kill my MagBlade with any of your characters.
Damn!! [snip] Thx for openning my eyes dude.
It’s an open invite, feel free to take it. PTS is dead, you have to motivate people to get on and test builds out apparently, instead of talking in circles with people about things they insist are right when they are far from it, it’s an invite to prove your point.
Imagine being asked to provide proof of a claim.
dont have pts but if it can be tested in live I'm in EU, can help you with it.
I dont know what do you want to test tho!
I don’t play ESO on PC, but I installed the PTS on my desktop to help test new patches.
If you don’t believe how broken Cloak is when you have no Stealth Detection, I can show you.
Even with Camo Hunter or Inner Light, it won’t matter. You specifically have to run the increased radius stealth pulls or detect pots to get a heavy attack off on someone using Cloak, especially after the Lightning Staff and Restoration Staff changes where you can dodge the final tick from a few patches ago. You have be faster than the Nightblade to stay on top of them with Stealth pullers which MagBlade gets Minor and Major Expedition through it’s in-class kit so good luck.
[edited to remove quote]
Gap closer?0