Where are the QoL improvements for Sorcerer?

Pelanora

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644972/the-bear-the-birb-and-the-basement-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-bothering-and-love-the-suck#latest

Never played a warden but the similar tale to sorc is thought provoking.

Hypotheses.
1. Difficulties with maths. Just can't calculate what the changes will do to classes.
2. New classes mean money. Nerf old classes to force the switch.
3. Noone in the company actually wants a multi class mmo, only the players do.

Turtle_Bot

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Realistically sorc is a class that stomps on bad players even when it isn't that good, so I doubt it will ever be on the top of the food chain again.

Overwhelming majority of this game is very bad players, so this would be a nightmare situation for them and zos. The concept of delayed burst has eluded the high IQ playerbase of this game always, it's hacking as far as they're concerned.

Tbf, one of the biggest reasons for this is due to the players that are left playing the class after all the nerfs its gotten over the years.

They are either top 1% players that can make any class, even necro/werewolf, look S-tier, or they are part of a large group and still clinging to the old kill-steal with fury playstyle (which plar is just flat out better at doing now with beam) or are a negate + streak bot for ball groups.

Those are the only types of sorcs I come across sadly, especially magsorcs. As for stamsorcs, its either top 1% players or its meta proc sets carrying the class which frankly any and every class can (and do) use.

Delayed burst on sorc needs looking at, sorcs kit has gone too far into delayed burst, it has no balance to its damage options.

Looking at sorcs kit:
- Frags/weapon = delayed burst (this is how this ability is used in PvP)
- curse = delayed burst
- fury = delayed burst
- bound armaments = delayed burst
- mines = delayed "burst"
- hurricane = upfront pressure (but only at melee range)
- boundless storm is useless since its radius is less than all melee attacks since the range increase to them last patch
- Liquid lightning is a ground based AoE DoT, its supposed to be upfront pressure, but its such a weak ability that also suffers from lack of secondary effects and also being ground based DoT and not a sticky DoT meaning everyone will just walk out of it after taking 1 tick of <1k damage.
- Overload = mix of upfront damage and delayed burst (this is the closest thing sorc has in its kit for upfront damage)
- Atro = pressure, its a strong ultimate, but it suffers from being essentially a ground based AoE (people just walk away from it)

This design for sorcs kit makes for some nice clickbait clips where everything lines up perfectly to instantly nuke someone down (which as you said, "is great against bad players"), but really doesn't do anything against players who even remotely know what they are doing defensively, especially once the carry proc sets are taken out of the equation which deletes sorcs pressure and the vast majority of sorcs healing from crit surge.

CP is the other factor, it provides far too much mitigation, its why sorcs seem ok in no-proc/no-CP campaign, there the pets are much more viable since there's no CP to mitigate their damage and no proc sets to help instantly nuke them down. Unfortunately pets are horrible in the rest of PvP outside of cheese dueling builds, since procs and CP power creep has far outpaced the pets stats for combat and everything sorc is lacking is tied up in those pets (decent sticky damage over time and the burst heal, no dark deal is not a burst heal, it is a sustain ability first and foremost and is only used as the burst heal because the pets are really that bad in PvP outside of those 2 specific scenarios).

Pelanora

Does read suspiciously like devs want sorc to be hit and run

Turtle_Bot

Pelanora wrote: »

Does read suspiciously like devs want sorc to be hit and run

I'd be fine with that being the direction sorcs go, as long as they make sure the run part is possible.

However, since they seemed to hand out movement speed and teleporting like candy over the past few years such that even a heavy armor tank can still reach speed cap without much effort or drawbacks, that run factor has just become much harder, especially against competent players who can easily chase down a streaking sorc with no issue at all.

Right now NB is the hit and run class, but also the stealth class and just for laughs it has insane healing too, and sorc just feels like its the hit and pray they don't have any movement speed to chase you class.

Bushido2513

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Right now NB is the hit and run class, but also the stealth class and just for laughs it has insane healing too, and sorc just feels like its the hit and pray they don't have any movement speed to chase you class.

Recently got repeatedly chased and caught up with after using upwards of 4 streaks.

Granted my engagement was off and I made some mistakes but it doesn't matter when you have NB, DK, etc that can and do build into speed knowing they won't lose as much damage as I will if I did the same.

Streak should be a braindead get out of jail free card but at this point it's just too easy to counter with minimal trade-off.

Duke_Falcon

Every week I play Sorc and play Sorc and play Sorc, thinking I can make this work, I just got to figure it out. Then after great frustration I come here thinking, okay for sure there are changes coming. lol ...and I see nothing. lol

Duke_Falcon

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Realistically sorc is a class that stomps on bad players even when it isn't that good, so I doubt it will ever be on the top of the food chain again.

Overwhelming majority of this game is very bad players, so this would be a nightmare situation for them and zos. The concept of delayed burst has eluded the high IQ playerbase of this game always, it's hacking as far as they're concerned.

I think the basic delayed damage set up is fine, even if you have to set it up with some Crushing Shock spamming to get the targets health low enough for it to proc the mages wrath w/ a well timed curse/streak.

The thing that's making me crazy about the class is the lack of a viable healing rotation, or if you can make a viable healing rotation then you have to give up so many skills needed to make a viable damage set up.

RoxyPhoenix

ya know, the thing with sorc is that it is in fact quite balanced. Depending on the playstyle you ALWAYS have to give up something. You want damage - give up ur defence, you want defence - give up your damage, you want healing - give up mobility, you want mobility - give up crit and so on and on.

sorc players inherently seek out ways to fill the missing link in their builds, whether it's survivability or dps there is always something we need to address, therefore we often crouch on proc sets to fill out the gap. That is our strength and our weakness, I mean there are sets in the game that were nerfed just because they were too strong on Sorcs.

I think that's why we don't see much changes to our class. A slightly little tweak to it and people will find a way to abuse it.

IZZEFlameLash

Pelanora wrote: »

Does read suspiciously like devs want sorc to be hit and run

This went out the window when Streak got ramping cost.

ZhuJiuyin

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

ya know, the thing with sorc is that it is in fact quite balanced. Depending on the playstyle you ALWAYS have to give up something. You want damage - give up ur defence, you want defence - give up your damage, you want healing - give up mobility, you want mobility - give up crit and so on and on.

sorc players inherently seek out ways to fill the missing link in their builds, whether it's survivability or dps there is always something we need to address, therefore we often crouch on proc sets to fill out the gap. That is our strength and our weakness, I mean there are sets in the game that were nerfed just because they were too strong on Sorcs.

I think that's why we don't see much changes to our class. A slightly little tweak to it and people will find a way to abuse it.

If sorc is as balanced as claimed, then why is sorc so uncompetitive in PVE, especially in HM trials? Why can sorc only rely on certain sets in PVP otherwise it will be difficult to fight against others?
Those sets that have been weakened can be used with other classes to achieve equally powerful or even better effects.
No, sorc is not balanced at all, magica sorc is very weak, lacks healing, lacks buffs, bad executions and passives, outdated or ineffective skills, etc. sorc has so many problems that need to be solved, it is not balanced at all.

What is a truly balanced class?
Just look at the classes toolkit of DK and Arcanist.
Versatile, comprehensive, and powerful.

I would not recommend nerfing DK or Arcanist because they are really perfect.
But other classes, especially sorc, will undoubtedly need adjustments and buffs.

Trejgon

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

ya know, the thing with sorc is that it is in fact quite balanced. Depending on the playstyle you ALWAYS have to give up something. You want damage - give up ur defence, you want defence - give up your damage, you want healing - give up mobility, you want mobility - give up crit and so on and on.

sorc players inherently seek out ways to fill the missing link in their builds, whether it's survivability or dps there is always something we need to address, therefore we often crouch on proc sets to fill out the gap. That is our strength and our weakness, I mean there are sets in the game that were nerfed just because they were too strong on Sorcs.

I think that's why we don't see much changes to our class. A slightly little tweak to it and people will find a way to abuse it.

If sorc is as balanced as claimed, then why is sorc so uncompetitive in PVE, especially in HM trials?

For whole duration of the post you were responding to I was looking for "the issue is that every other class is not as well balanced", but that sentence never happened >.>

Turtle_Bot

Trejgon wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

ya know, the thing with sorc is that it is in fact quite balanced. Depending on the playstyle you ALWAYS have to give up something. You want damage - give up ur defence, you want defence - give up your damage, you want healing - give up mobility, you want mobility - give up crit and so on and on.

sorc players inherently seek out ways to fill the missing link in their builds, whether it's survivability or dps there is always something we need to address, therefore we often crouch on proc sets to fill out the gap. That is our strength and our weakness, I mean there are sets in the game that were nerfed just because they were too strong on Sorcs.

I think that's why we don't see much changes to our class. A slightly little tweak to it and people will find a way to abuse it.

If sorc is as balanced as claimed, then why is sorc so uncompetitive in PVE, especially in HM trials?

For whole duration of the post you were responding to I was looking for "the issue is that every other class is not as well balanced", but that sentence never happened >.>

That's where the conflict lies though, sorc is designed for a balanced game (like it used to be), where every class had their own strengths and weaknesses and sorc still has those designed decisions when you build the class.

The issue is that the other classes are not being designed around that same principle of give and take balance. DK, NB and Arcanist don't have that enforced decision making design when building them put into their class kits and there has been no real deviation away from that current "able to do anything" design philosophy, except for when it comes to discussing sorcerer changes.

For example; If we were to apply that same design philosophy of balance around give and take choices to NB, DK and Arcanist that we apply when discussing sorcerers:
NB
- NB's healthy offering would have a 1 second cast time and have half its heal value
- cloak would never have been given its prophecy/savagery buff from last patch
- blur would not be granting both evasion and dodge roll cost reduction
- power extraction would not be granting courage and inflicting cowardice
and many other things in the NB kit would not exist as they currently do.

DK
DK would not have the battle roar passive granting it such insane sustain power that makes dark exchange look pathetic by comparison.
It would not have easy access to things like RaT/mist form to grant it constant top tier mobility that easily matches streak.
The fix to corrosive (preventing ult gen while in corrosive form) would have been done years ago to match the other "transform" ultimates.

Arcanist
It's healing would not be there or it would have massive drawbacks such as cast times or a killable summon that provides it.
Beam wouldn't be providing huge shields and interrupt immunity while dealing ultimate levels of damage.
It's execute would not also inflict both unique increased damage taken on top of an immobilize (CC).


But as we can clearly see, NB, DK and arcanist do not follow this same design philosophy that is being forced onto sorcerers, so clearly that philosophy is not what the game is currently being designed and balanced around, as such, why is sorcerer being forced to still adhere to that same outdated design philosophy?

So yes, technically sorc is balanced, but the rest of the classes (with the exception of plar and cro) are not balanced and this is causing the issues.

ZOS needs to decide, either:
- make all classes OP and able to do anything and everything
- or go back their old design philosophy and apply it to ALL classes and force ALL classes to make those decisions and trade-offs in their builds.

IZZEFlameLash

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Trejgon wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

ya know, the thing with sorc is that it is in fact quite balanced. Depending on the playstyle you ALWAYS have to give up something. You want damage - give up ur defence, you want defence - give up your damage, you want healing - give up mobility, you want mobility - give up crit and so on and on.

sorc players inherently seek out ways to fill the missing link in their builds, whether it's survivability or dps there is always something we need to address, therefore we often crouch on proc sets to fill out the gap. That is our strength and our weakness, I mean there are sets in the game that were nerfed just because they were too strong on Sorcs.

I think that's why we don't see much changes to our class. A slightly little tweak to it and people will find a way to abuse it.

If sorc is as balanced as claimed, then why is sorc so uncompetitive in PVE, especially in HM trials?

For whole duration of the post you were responding to I was looking for "the issue is that every other class is not as well balanced", but that sentence never happened >.>

That's where the conflict lies though, sorc is designed for a balanced game (like it used to be), where every class had their own strengths and weaknesses and sorc still has those designed decisions when you build the class.

The issue is that the other classes are not being designed around that same principle of give and take balance. DK, NB and Arcanist don't have that enforced decision making design when building them put into their class kits and there has been no real deviation away from that current "able to do anything" design philosophy, except for when it comes to discussing sorcerer changes.

For example; If we were to apply that same design philosophy of balance around give and take choices to NB, DK and Arcanist that we apply when discussing sorcerers:
NB
- NB's healthy offering would have a 1 second cast time and have half its heal value
- cloak would never have been given its prophecy/savagery buff from last patch
- blur would not be granting both evasion and dodge roll cost reduction
- power extraction would not be granting courage and inflicting cowardice
and many other things in the NB kit would not exist as they currently do.

DK
DK would not have the battle roar passive granting it such insane sustain power that makes dark exchange look pathetic by comparison.
It would not have easy access to things like RaT/mist form to grant it constant top tier mobility that easily matches streak.
The fix to corrosive (preventing ult gen while in corrosive form) would have been done years ago to match the other "transform" ultimates.

Arcanist
It's healing would not be there or it would have massive drawbacks such as cast times or a killable summon that provides it.
Beam wouldn't be providing huge shields and interrupt immunity while dealing ultimate levels of damage.
It's execute would not also inflict both unique increased damage taken on top of an immobilize (CC).


But as we can clearly see, NB, DK and arcanist do not follow this same design philosophy that is being forced onto sorcerers, so clearly that philosophy is not what the game is currently being designed and balanced around, as such, why is sorcerer being forced to still adhere to that same outdated design philosophy?

So yes, technically sorc is balanced, but the rest of the classes (with the exception of plar and cro) are not balanced and this is causing the issues.

ZOS needs to decide, either:
- make all classes OP and able to do anything and everything
- or go back their old design philosophy and apply it to ALL classes and force ALL classes to make those decisions and trade-offs in their builds.

Previously, it was DK that was left behind the time for a while. Then joined by post-nerf Warden. Now, it is Sorc and Necro that are left behind while other classes move on. Maybe Templar too. Only class that had been consistently moving forward with time has been NB imo.

Turtle_Bot

I miss back when DK wasn't as strong. It was so much fun to play back then.

Also tbf, it wasn't as weak as everyone thought, I had a 26-28k health magdk and it was fine for the most part, decently tanky, even without corrosive, with more than enough damage.

Now everyone is a DK with corrosive and its become quite boring to play.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Right now NB is the hit and run class, but also the stealth class and just for laughs it has insane healing too, and sorc just feels like its the hit and pray they don't have any movement speed to chase you class.

Recently got repeatedly chased and caught up with after using upwards of 4 streaks.

Granted my engagement was off and I made some mistakes but it doesn't matter when you have NB, DK, etc that can and do build into speed knowing they won't lose as much damage as I will if I did the same.

Streak should be a braindead get out of jail free card but at this point it's just too easy to counter with minimal trade-off.

I remember posting a video of myself chasing down a hybrid sorc streaking 3x in a row in another thread, and another video of myself getting chased down in a NB thread. Hate to see this ability losing its value over the years lol

Pelanora

I guess if you build a hit and run class, and then you give away the run, to everyone else, and you can't then boost the hit..... you have to either boost the run again OR rethink the whole thing. And they just don't seem to want to do either.

StaticWave

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

ya know, the thing with sorc is that it is in fact quite balanced. Depending on the playstyle you ALWAYS have to give up something. You want damage - give up ur defence, you want defence - give up your damage, you want healing - give up mobility, you want mobility - give up crit and so on and on.

sorc players inherently seek out ways to fill the missing link in their builds, whether it's survivability or dps there is always something we need to address, therefore we often crouch on proc sets to fill out the gap. That is our strength and our weakness, I mean there are sets in the game that were nerfed just because they were too strong on Sorcs.

I think that's why we don't see much changes to our class. A slightly little tweak to it and people will find a way to abuse it.

I really want to agree with this because I think you do have a good point, especially about Sorc being a balanced class. However, 3-4 classes are overperforming without slotting those proc sets, and 2 classes are doing pretty bad even with proc sets.

What I find most frustrating on this class is limited theorycrafting, whether due to bar space issues or a lack of buffs/debuffs. On the 3-4 overperforming classes, you don't really have this issue. Their abilities are pretty efficient and up to date. For example, DK gets Major Savagery and Breach on 2 strong offensive abilities. NB gets Major Sorcery and Cowardice on a strong AoE offensive ability, and Major Savagery on a strong defensive ability. Warden gets Major Minor Breach on a strong AoE burst and Major Resolve + Minor Protection in 1 skill.

Necro, Sorc, and Plar have fewer skills that provide a strong active component and a decent Major/Minor Buff/Debuff. The only good non-class Major Debuff ability is Ele Sus, but it's broken and an outlier. Other sources of Major Savagery/Brutality are not as good as class counterparts.

A simple solution could just be fixing the bar space issue for the class.

Pelanora

@Turtle_Bot @StaticWave Probably without going into sorcs issues lol you guys should come in on this.... on good roadmaps.....

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7980987#Comment_7980987

Zabagad

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Right now NB is the hit and run class, but also the stealth class and just for laughs it has insane healing too, and sorc just feels like its the hit and pray they don't have any movement speed to chase you class.

Recently got repeatedly chased and caught up with after using upwards of 4 streaks.

Granted my engagement was off and I made some mistakes but it doesn't matter when you have NB, DK, etc that can and do build into speed knowing they won't lose as much damage as I will if I did the same.

Streak should be a braindead get out of jail free card but at this point it's just too easy to counter with minimal trade-off.

I remember posting a video of myself chasing down a hybrid sorc streaking 3x in a row in another thread, and another video of myself getting chased down in a NB thread. Hate to see this ability losing its value over the years lol

So maybe it's time to give Streak "a bit" more distance?

It is 14 or 15m now and maybe it should be 22m like gapcloser? Or at least 18m-20m if that would bring up "no counter" arguments?
Would that be a valid request? I mean streak is anyway #1 complain from other classes, but in my opinion the argumentation that speed is out of control is a valid reason to ask for that!?

Turtle_Bot

Pelanora wrote: »

@Turtle_Bot @StaticWave Probably without going into sorcs issues lol you guys should come in on this.... on good roadmaps.....

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7980987#Comment_7980987

I had been following that thread, I didn't realise Kevin had gotten back to it again.

StaticWave

Zabagad wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Right now NB is the hit and run class, but also the stealth class and just for laughs it has insane healing too, and sorc just feels like its the hit and pray they don't have any movement speed to chase you class.

Recently got repeatedly chased and caught up with after using upwards of 4 streaks.

Granted my engagement was off and I made some mistakes but it doesn't matter when you have NB, DK, etc that can and do build into speed knowing they won't lose as much damage as I will if I did the same.

Streak should be a braindead get out of jail free card but at this point it's just too easy to counter with minimal trade-off.

I remember posting a video of myself chasing down a hybrid sorc streaking 3x in a row in another thread, and another video of myself getting chased down in a NB thread. Hate to see this ability losing its value over the years lol

So maybe it's time to give Streak "a bit" more distance?

It is 14 or 15m now and maybe it should be 22m like gapcloser? Or at least 18m-20m if that would bring up "no counter" arguments?
Would that be a valid request? I mean streak is anyway #1 complain from other classes, but in my opinion the argumentation that speed is out of control is a valid reason to ask for that!?

Streak is actually fine as an ability. It's balanced and has strengths and weaknesses. The problem is movement speed became widely accessible over the years. Movement speed is also a soft counter to Streak. Remember CP 1.0 and pre-Summerset? Movement speed was really hard to get. Most people only had access to Major Expedition and that was it. If you wanted more speed, you'd have to use Steed Mundus, be an Orc, and play medium armor. Only certain classes could reach the speed cap, like stamsorc.

Now, every class can reach the speed cap quite easily. For example, I can wear 5 medium, slot Celerity CP, run 3x Swift, and be at 196% speed. The speed cap is 200% lol. You don't even need to be an Orc or have Major/Minor Expedition.

Personally, I would just nerf movement speed lol, but that won't be favored by the community. Only thing left is buffing Streak itself, which is going to be difficult because it's already balanced, so any buffing would need to be done carefully.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Right now NB is the hit and run class, but also the stealth class and just for laughs it has insane healing too, and sorc just feels like its the hit and pray they don't have any movement speed to chase you class.

Recently got repeatedly chased and caught up with after using upwards of 4 streaks.

Granted my engagement was off and I made some mistakes but it doesn't matter when you have NB, DK, etc that can and do build into speed knowing they won't lose as much damage as I will if I did the same.

Streak should be a braindead get out of jail free card but at this point it's just too easy to counter with minimal trade-off.

I remember posting a video of myself chasing down a hybrid sorc streaking 3x in a row in another thread, and another video of myself getting chased down in a NB thread. Hate to see this ability losing its value over the years lol

Yup at the time I wasn't playing in the game but now I'm back and seeing this on full display. When I was a stam sorc I built into speed to be able to somewhat get away as needed. It's more challenging with mag sorc because I'm not supposed to exactly run that much.

I'm trying to compensate by embracing fighting at maximum range but with speed being what it is opponents seem to easily enter melee range if I can't find a gap to cross or a corner to turn.

Magsorc is hard pressed to keep up in this environment.

Aces-High-82

StaticWave wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Right now NB is the hit and run class, but also the stealth class and just for laughs it has insane healing too, and sorc just feels like its the hit and pray they don't have any movement speed to chase you class.

Recently got repeatedly chased and caught up with after using upwards of 4 streaks.

Granted my engagement was off and I made some mistakes but it doesn't matter when you have NB, DK, etc that can and do build into speed knowing they won't lose as much damage as I will if I did the same.

Streak should be a braindead get out of jail free card but at this point it's just too easy to counter with minimal trade-off.

I remember posting a video of myself chasing down a hybrid sorc streaking 3x in a row in another thread, and another video of myself getting chased down in a NB thread. Hate to see this ability losing its value over the years lol

So maybe it's time to give Streak "a bit" more distance?

It is 14 or 15m now and maybe it should be 22m like gapcloser? Or at least 18m-20m if that would bring up "no counter" arguments?
Would that be a valid request? I mean streak is anyway #1 complain from other classes, but in my opinion the argumentation that speed is out of control is a valid reason to ask for that!?

Streak is actually fine as an ability. It's balanced and has strengths and weaknesses. The problem is movement speed became widely accessible over the years. Movement speed is also a soft counter to Streak. Remember CP 1.0 and pre-Summerset? Movement speed was really hard to get. Most people only had access to Major Expedition and that was it. If you wanted more speed, you'd have to use Steed Mundus, be an Orc, and play medium armor. Only certain classes could reach the speed cap, like stamsorc.

Now, every class can reach the speed cap quite easily. For example, I can wear 5 medium, slot Celerity CP, run 3x Swift, and be at 196% speed. The speed cap is 200% lol. You don't even need to be an Orc or have Major/Minor Expedition.

Personally, I would just nerf movement speed lol, but that won't be favored by the community. Only thing left is buffing Streak itself, which is going to be difficult because it's already balanced, so any buffing would need to be done carefully.

Decreased ramping cost...like 10%?! Tho i can't see why the ramping cost is justified anymore at all as how the game developed.

StaticWave

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Right now NB is the hit and run class, but also the stealth class and just for laughs it has insane healing too, and sorc just feels like its the hit and pray they don't have any movement speed to chase you class.

Recently got repeatedly chased and caught up with after using upwards of 4 streaks.

Granted my engagement was off and I made some mistakes but it doesn't matter when you have NB, DK, etc that can and do build into speed knowing they won't lose as much damage as I will if I did the same.

Streak should be a braindead get out of jail free card but at this point it's just too easy to counter with minimal trade-off.

I remember posting a video of myself chasing down a hybrid sorc streaking 3x in a row in another thread, and another video of myself getting chased down in a NB thread. Hate to see this ability losing its value over the years lol

So maybe it's time to give Streak "a bit" more distance?

It is 14 or 15m now and maybe it should be 22m like gapcloser? Or at least 18m-20m if that would bring up "no counter" arguments?
Would that be a valid request? I mean streak is anyway #1 complain from other classes, but in my opinion the argumentation that speed is out of control is a valid reason to ask for that!?

Streak is actually fine as an ability. It's balanced and has strengths and weaknesses. The problem is movement speed became widely accessible over the years. Movement speed is also a soft counter to Streak. Remember CP 1.0 and pre-Summerset? Movement speed was really hard to get. Most people only had access to Major Expedition and that was it. If you wanted more speed, you'd have to use Steed Mundus, be an Orc, and play medium armor. Only certain classes could reach the speed cap, like stamsorc.

Now, every class can reach the speed cap quite easily. For example, I can wear 5 medium, slot Celerity CP, run 3x Swift, and be at 196% speed. The speed cap is 200% lol. You don't even need to be an Orc or have Major/Minor Expedition.

Personally, I would just nerf movement speed lol, but that won't be favored by the community. Only thing left is buffing Streak itself, which is going to be difficult because it's already balanced, so any buffing would need to be done carefully.

Decreased ramping cost...like 10%?! Tho i can't see why the ramping cost is justified anymore at all as how the game developed.

That could help, but it won’t solve the issue because sprinting costs much less stamina than multiple Streak casts. It’s actually a compounded issue. The widely available sources of movement speed, a reduced cost to sprinting, and a lack of adjustment to keep Streak updated are why this ability feels underwhelming when used as a defensive/escape tool, despite it being fairly balanced.

Tyrant_Tim

When suggesting a buff to Sorcerer, I would be cautious…

Currently it is in a really strong position with Stam Sorcs whipping around deleting people, whereas Mag Sorc is great, but is pretty much non-existent due to its extremely high skill curve…

Quality of life buffs to Sorc should be made in the form of lessening that skill curve.

Tyrant_Tim

Now, for how I would handle lessening the skill curve of the class, would be as simple as buffing Conjured Ward’s size and duration back to what it was originally as sticky DoTs last forever and burst is much higher now, with every player attaching a flood of negative effects to you in the form of debuffs and proc sets…

Then I would buff Critical Surge by adding Major Prophecy/Savagery when slotted on either bar or a unique increase to critical chance when activated.

IMO, these things would be enough to make playing the class more forgiving, resulting in a more enjoyable experience.

CGPsaint

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Now, for how I would handle lessening the skill curve of the class, would be as simple as buffing Conjured Ward’s size and duration back to what it was originally as sticky DoTs last forever and burst is much higher now, with every player attaching a flood of negative effects to you in the form of debuffs and proc sets…

Then I would buff Critical Surge by adding Major Prophecy/Savagery when slotted on either bar or a unique increase to critical chance when activated.

IMO, these things would be enough to make playing the class more forgiving, resulting in a more enjoyable experience.

Adding Major Prophecy/Savagery would definitely help alleviate the crowded bar space, but Sorcs are still going to lag behind in just about all endgame HM content. IMO the skill lines need to be revamped because most of the class toolkit is quite useless in comparison to other classes.

ZhuJiuyin

This is the number of Sorc in the top 100 in the trial (HM) currently (10/29)

VES: 0
VDSR: 1 (stam: 1 magic: 0)
VRG: 0
VKA: 0
VSS: 0

Can this be called balance?
From a PVE perspective, Sorc is seriously behind and almost extinct.
Improving Sorc's QoL will not make Sorc a god of death in PVP. Sorc has too many skills that need to be redone and buffed. Encase and Rune Prison are rarely used in either PVP or PVE. Lightning Splash and Mages' Fury are It is also almost non-existent in PVE.Magic sorc is an endangered animal in both PVP and PVE.
Please note that most calls for improvements to SORC are not for enhancements to skills that are already commonly used but for skills that are almost forgotten and of poor quality.

Quethrosar

wish our skills weren't dodge able so easy. can barely place a hit on people who don't even dodge roll.

Aces-High-82

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

When suggesting a buff to Sorcerer, I would be cautious…

Currently it is in a really strong position with Stam Sorcs whipping around deleting people, whereas Mag Sorc is great, but is pretty much non-existent due to its extremely high skill curve…

Quality of life buffs to Sorc should be made in the form of lessening that skill curve.

Slap that master dw/vate/marselok/PO on any other class and you'll do better.....well except on Necro