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Nerf Artic Blast/Polar Wind and buff Spores/Enchanted Growth
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Melzo✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Having a ping of 220, I managed to dodge the nb arrow when he was invisibility and I did not expect him. Focusing only on sound. I'm not a super top player. And I often find it difficult to play. I also defeated top players and often died from noobs. But it is unnecessary to brag about your great experience here. I told you how it is. That it is much easier for me to defeat the strongest class than a class that cannot be blocked or dodged. You talk about prejudice but look in the mirror. In each post outside of the sorcerer, you have one suggestion for nerfing any skill, but only offer a buff to the sorcerer.
When playing against the NB you have a countermeasure. I was against nb only when nb could kill with one shot of a power attack. It was a miserable and not fair meta, but now, despite the fact that he is clearly stronger than my necromancer, I say that the necromancer should be given a buff, but I didn’t write a word to give an NB nerf. Because this class works correctly.
On the other hand, you write to give the sorcerer a buff and nerf to hell everything that does not apply to the sorcerer. That's the whole difference between me and you and why I'm biased against you, and not the sorcerer. I don't search on every topic and don't write under every post related to sorcerers.1 -
Weckless✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Having a ping of 220, I managed to dodge the nb arrow when he was invisibility and I did not expect him. Focusing only on sound. I'm not a super top player. And I often find it difficult to play. I also defeated top players and often died from noobs. But it is unnecessary to brag about your great experience here. I told you how it is. That it is much easier for me to defeat the strongest class than a class that cannot be blocked or dodged. You talk about prejudice but look in the mirror. In each post outside of the sorcerer, you have one suggestion for nerfing any skill, but only offer a buff to the sorcerer.
When playing against the NB you have a countermeasure. I was against nb only when nb could kill with one shot of a power attack. It was a miserable and not fair meta, but now, despite the fact that he is clearly stronger than my necromancer, I say that the necromancer should be given a buff, but I didn’t write a word to give an NB nerf. Because this class works correctly.
On the other hand, you write to give the sorcerer a buff and nerf to hell everything that does not apply to the sorcerer. That's the whole difference between me and you and why I'm biased against you, and not the sorcerer. I don't search on every topic and don't write under every post related to sorcerers.
Im pretty sure he's lashing out in frustration at this point. Basically saying "well if you aren't going to make sorc stronger then make everything else weaker" which I understand. Sorc is in a bad spot basically pigeonholed into running cheese builds to be competitive enough in the damage department to counter balance their weakness in healing. It's meh0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Have you guys read about the new buffs for sorc and NB in the new patch notes?0
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StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Stamsorcs survive only by putting enough pressure on someone to prevent them from doing damage back lol
Once a stam sorc is on the back foot its over. There is no playing defensive on stam sorc and no real way to recover once youve hit that red zone. Wardens can live for as long as their resources last
Sorc really is the only class that can have full resources and not be able to recover lol
Precisely this. I duel in stormhaven while waiting for BG queues and the amount of stamsorcs in meta proc set builds getting destroyed by Ice Staff Wardens is hilarious.
They think they can just slot mDW, Vate Ice, and Maarselok on a stamsorc and think they can beat a decent Warden lol. Warden without those sets will still pull top DPS while having better survivability. There’s no contest here.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Stamsorcs survive only by putting enough pressure on someone to prevent them from doing damage back lol
Once a stam sorc is on the back foot its over. There is no playing defensive on stam sorc and no real way to recover once youve hit that red zone. Wardens can live for as long as their resources last
Sorc really is the only class that can have full resources and not be able to recover lol
Precisely this. I duel in stormhaven while waiting for BG queues and the amount of stamsorcs in meta proc set builds getting destroyed by Ice Staff Wardens is hilarious.
They think they can just slot mDW, Vate Ice, and Maarselok on a stamsorc and think they can beat a decent Warden lol. Warden without those sets will still pull top DPS while having better survivability. There’s no contest here.
Why don't you use a restoration staff back bar instead of vate ice staff??
You can then slot blessing of restoration.0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Stamsorcs survive only by putting enough pressure on someone to prevent them from doing damage back lol
Once a stam sorc is on the back foot its over. There is no playing defensive on stam sorc and no real way to recover once youve hit that red zone. Wardens can live for as long as their resources last
Sorc really is the only class that can have full resources and not be able to recover lol
Precisely this. I duel in stormhaven while waiting for BG queues and the amount of stamsorcs in meta proc set builds getting destroyed by Ice Staff Wardens is hilarious.
They think they can just slot mDW, Vate Ice, and Maarselok on a stamsorc and think they can beat a decent Warden lol. Warden without those sets will still pull top DPS while having better survivability. There’s no contest here.
Why don't you use a restoration staff back bar instead of vate ice staff??
You can then slot blessing of restoration.
Then I won't have space for Major Breach, and Blessing of Restoration costs almost 1k more mag than other class burst heals for a smaller tooltip. Not to mention I also have less block mitigation. No thanks. I'm already using enough weapon skills. I would rather not become more of a blank character.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Stamsorcs survive only by putting enough pressure on someone to prevent them from doing damage back lol
Once a stam sorc is on the back foot its over. There is no playing defensive on stam sorc and no real way to recover once youve hit that red zone. Wardens can live for as long as their resources last
Sorc really is the only class that can have full resources and not be able to recover lol
Precisely this. I duel in stormhaven while waiting for BG queues and the amount of stamsorcs in meta proc set builds getting destroyed by Ice Staff Wardens is hilarious.
They think they can just slot mDW, Vate Ice, and Maarselok on a stamsorc and think they can beat a decent Warden lol. Warden without those sets will still pull top DPS while having better survivability. There’s no contest here.
Why don't you use a restoration staff back bar instead of vate ice staff??
You can then slot blessing of restoration.
Then I won't have space for Major Breach, and Blessing of Restoration costs almost 1k more mag than other class burst heals for a smaller tooltip. Not to mention I also have less block mitigation. No thanks. I'm already using enough weapon skills. I would rather not become more of a blank character.
What is your build if you don't mind me asking?
I was trying to go without major breach, just using lover mundus and sharpened for pen.
But my sorc isn't going to survive very long without a restoration staff.
I wonder if Maras balm might be good on a sorc
0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Stamsorcs survive only by putting enough pressure on someone to prevent them from doing damage back lol
Once a stam sorc is on the back foot its over. There is no playing defensive on stam sorc and no real way to recover once youve hit that red zone. Wardens can live for as long as their resources last
Sorc really is the only class that can have full resources and not be able to recover lol
Precisely this. I duel in stormhaven while waiting for BG queues and the amount of stamsorcs in meta proc set builds getting destroyed by Ice Staff Wardens is hilarious.
They think they can just slot mDW, Vate Ice, and Maarselok on a stamsorc and think they can beat a decent Warden lol. Warden without those sets will still pull top DPS while having better survivability. There’s no contest here.
Why don't you use a restoration staff back bar instead of vate ice staff??
You can then slot blessing of restoration.
Then I won't have space for Major Breach, and Blessing of Restoration costs almost 1k more mag than other class burst heals for a smaller tooltip. Not to mention I also have less block mitigation. No thanks. I'm already using enough weapon skills. I would rather not become more of a blank character.
What is your build if you don't mind me asking?
I was trying to go without major breach, just using lover mundus and sharpened for pen.
But my sorc isn't going to survive very long without a restoration staff.
I wonder if Maras balm might be good on a sorc
Mara’s Balm was actually justifiable on Sorc. Too bad they nerfed the set.
I’m using Essence Thief, Trickery, Sea Serpent’s Coil, and Balorgh/Engine Guardian.
Front bar skills:
Arterial Burst, Crystal Wep, Curse, Rally, Surge
Back bar:
Streak, Dark Deal, Vigor, Elesus, Hurricane
For BG or openworld I swap Elesus with Caltrops.0 -
Weckless✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Stamsorcs survive only by putting enough pressure on someone to prevent them from doing damage back lol
Once a stam sorc is on the back foot its over. There is no playing defensive on stam sorc and no real way to recover once youve hit that red zone. Wardens can live for as long as their resources last
Sorc really is the only class that can have full resources and not be able to recover lol
Precisely this. I duel in stormhaven while waiting for BG queues and the amount of stamsorcs in meta proc set builds getting destroyed by Ice Staff Wardens is hilarious.
They think they can just slot mDW, Vate Ice, and Maarselok on a stamsorc and think they can beat a decent Warden lol. Warden without those sets will still pull top DPS while having better survivability. There’s no contest here.
Why don't you use a restoration staff back bar instead of vate ice staff??
You can then slot blessing of restoration.
Then I won't have space for Major Breach, and Blessing of Restoration costs almost 1k more mag than other class burst heals for a smaller tooltip. Not to mention I also have less block mitigation. No thanks. I'm already using enough weapon skills. I would rather not become more of a blank character.
What is your build if you don't mind me asking?
I was trying to go without major breach, just using lover mundus and sharpened for pen.
But my sorc isn't going to survive very long without a restoration staff.
I wonder if Maras balm might be good on a sorc
Mara’s Balm was actually justifiable on Sorc. Too bad they nerfed the set.
I’m using Essence Thief, Trickery, Sea Serpent’s Coil, and Balorgh/Engine Guardian.
Front bar skills:
Arterial Burst, Crystal Wep, Curse, Rally, Surge
Back bar:
Streak, Dark Deal, Vigor, Elesus, Hurricane
For BG or openworld I swap Elesus with Caltrops.
You use spell crit pots?0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Stamsorcs survive only by putting enough pressure on someone to prevent them from doing damage back lol
Once a stam sorc is on the back foot its over. There is no playing defensive on stam sorc and no real way to recover once youve hit that red zone. Wardens can live for as long as their resources last
Sorc really is the only class that can have full resources and not be able to recover lol
Precisely this. I duel in stormhaven while waiting for BG queues and the amount of stamsorcs in meta proc set builds getting destroyed by Ice Staff Wardens is hilarious.
They think they can just slot mDW, Vate Ice, and Maarselok on a stamsorc and think they can beat a decent Warden lol. Warden without those sets will still pull top DPS while having better survivability. There’s no contest here.
Why don't you use a restoration staff back bar instead of vate ice staff??
You can then slot blessing of restoration.
Then I won't have space for Major Breach, and Blessing of Restoration costs almost 1k more mag than other class burst heals for a smaller tooltip. Not to mention I also have less block mitigation. No thanks. I'm already using enough weapon skills. I would rather not become more of a blank character.
What is your build if you don't mind me asking?
I was trying to go without major breach, just using lover mundus and sharpened for pen.
But my sorc isn't going to survive very long without a restoration staff.
I wonder if Maras balm might be good on a sorc
Mara’s Balm was actually justifiable on Sorc. Too bad they nerfed the set.
I’m using Essence Thief, Trickery, Sea Serpent’s Coil, and Balorgh/Engine Guardian.
Front bar skills:
Arterial Burst, Crystal Wep, Curse, Rally, Surge
Back bar:
Streak, Dark Deal, Vigor, Elesus, Hurricane
For BG or openworld I swap Elesus with Caltrops.
You use spell crit pots?
Yea. A bar slot is worth sacrificing tri pots.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Stamsorcs survive only by putting enough pressure on someone to prevent them from doing damage back lol
Once a stam sorc is on the back foot its over. There is no playing defensive on stam sorc and no real way to recover once youve hit that red zone. Wardens can live for as long as their resources last
Sorc really is the only class that can have full resources and not be able to recover lol
Precisely this. I duel in stormhaven while waiting for BG queues and the amount of stamsorcs in meta proc set builds getting destroyed by Ice Staff Wardens is hilarious.
They think they can just slot mDW, Vate Ice, and Maarselok on a stamsorc and think they can beat a decent Warden lol. Warden without those sets will still pull top DPS while having better survivability. There’s no contest here.
Why don't you use a restoration staff back bar instead of vate ice staff??
You can then slot blessing of restoration.
Then I won't have space for Major Breach, and Blessing of Restoration costs almost 1k more mag than other class burst heals for a smaller tooltip. Not to mention I also have less block mitigation. No thanks. I'm already using enough weapon skills. I would rather not become more of a blank character.
What is your build if you don't mind me asking?
I was trying to go without major breach, just using lover mundus and sharpened for pen.
But my sorc isn't going to survive very long without a restoration staff.
I wonder if Maras balm might be good on a sorc
Mara’s Balm was actually justifiable on Sorc. Too bad they nerfed the set.
I’m using Essence Thief, Trickery, Sea Serpent’s Coil, and Balorgh/Engine Guardian.
Front bar skills:
Arterial Burst, Crystal Wep, Curse, Rally, Surge
Back bar:
Streak, Dark Deal, Vigor, Elesus, Hurricane
For BG or openworld I swap Elesus with Caltrops.
That sounds like a difficult to play build. How do you catch anybody? Especially with streak on your back bar.
I lean heavily into ranged or AOE attacks otherwise it's hard to hit anybody.Edited by LittlePinkDot on 14 July 2023 13:530 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »Well the major mending thing really is a non-factor because I'd assume every warden is already using Living Trellis and Lotus Blossom-- which proc whatever passives need proccing simply by light attacking and by taking damage. So whether or not the heal on spores is or would be bigger is kinda up for debate. It isn't as though the green balance tree is underutilized.
Spores (haven't used the skill literally in like 5 years, since I was stam-healing on a Bowden, so just slap me if I'm wrong,) hits multiple people and that is what makes it viable if a Warden ever wanted to be a true healer. It doesn't need buffing for that-- it already is that. It heals in a decently large cone I believe, kinda like Blessing.
For healing oneself spores will never match Polar Wind, nor should it, because it is multitarget. And it doesn't have the HoT. So if from hearing this you think to yourself, "well jeez noob, then I guess polar Wind shouldn't reach out and heal one extra person." And bam. I agree.
But this is basically the only nerf I would want to see. Because an HP scaling heal being found in a class's tank tree isn't that strange at all. Wardens give themselves minor toughness. Having things scale off of max HP is clearly supposed to be a thing for them. While the game as a whole may be suffering from this tactic, we should be careful, because if polar Wind is nerfed too hard AND then we get what the game really needs which is some sort of battlespirit nerf to HP-- then we've just neutered an entire spec.
So to me this thread just seems like putting the cart before the horse. Let's ask for what we actually need and then see where Polar Wind stands.
And if we nerf both morphs at the same time then what do they have to fall back on? Spores? Okay spores takes the place of Arctic, no big deal (not a big enough deal to be proposing,) except now we have wardens running around no longer stacking max health, no longer having a stun, still having a bad spammable, and still needing to go out of class for an execute. Which is impossible if you're using an ice staff.
You've just got a rotten mess of a class that can only heal in PvP.
So. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else-- and your responses to other people might or might not be pretty accurate @Weckless -- but as a whole I think this is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
Polar Wind is overperforming-- absolutely. Arctic is literally just fine. And the thing that really made me roll my eyes was in the original post when it was said that "Arctic shouldn't scale off offensive stats, period." Umm, okay? Why? Doesn't everything else? So it can't scale off weapon damage and it shouldn't scale off max HP, what the heck is it gonna scale with??
Wardens have been adjusted multiple times recently, and a lot of it has had to do with this exact thing. Isn't it time to just move on? For chrissake we're talking about the 3rd best class. The 3rd. I implore you to see it my way. Who knows, maybe you're both right, it just isn't super important.
The HP thing can and should be fixed for the entire game, not just for wardens. Please let's focus on that.
Artic just needs to be a reliable stun that also deals damage, not do 3 things for 1 bar slot. Have you not noticed how every other class does not have a burst heal that can do 3 things?
Warden already saves a ton of bar space with Scorch giving Major + Minor Breach and a delayed burst, Bird of Prey giving Major Expedition + Snare cleanse + Minor Berserk, Green Lotus giving Major Prophecy + heal on light/heavy attacks, Netch giving Major Sorcery + a cleanse and mini heal, and Ice Fortress giving Major Resolve + Minor Protection. That’s 5 abilities providing every basic necessary buffs for the cost of 5 bar slots. The remaining 5 can be dedicated to a stun, a spammable, a burst heal, an extra damage ability, and an extra heal.
Currently, Artic Blast fills 3 slots in that remaining 5. Removing the burst heal from Artic and buffing Spores would make it lose 1 extra slot, but it’s not like Warden will suddenly be weaker.
Nonsensical argument that a skill does three things at once. It's like comparing netch or a similar sorcerer skill that gives the same buff only heals every 0.5 -1 second. The sorcerer's skill is clearly stronger. I even kick the netch out of the bar a lot in many builds. You can also compare the skills that give the Major Resolve buff. Who has the best skill? A necromancer or a sorcerer? For a sorcerer, the skill gives three effects at once, but for a necromancer, only two, and even then the second is worse than any of the remaining buffs of the sorcerer.
It's pretty stupid to compare one particular skill to another. It is necessary to compare the class as a whole or combinations of several skills.
For comparison, two skills that give Major Resolve.
Warden's Ice Fortress skill grants Major Resolve and Minor Protection buffs.
The sorcerer's Hurricane skill grants Major Resolve and Major Expedition buffs and deals AoE damage that increases by 20% over time. AoE damage deals the same amount of damage as DK claws or necromancer skeleton only they are separate skills and are worse in effectiveness than sorcerer AoE damage.
Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. It is necessary to remove the AoE damage from the skill and put it in a new skill so that you use two whole slots for the place of one. So will it be fair?
Dude just stop. You clearly hate Sorc and every argument of yours is indicative of that. I actually will have to put you on ignore this time.
And for the record, I was specifically talking about the burst heal. No burst heal in the game is doing 3 things at once, that's a fact. I don't even care if you remove Minor Expedition or the damage from Hurricane. Most magsorcs don't even slot it, and losing the damage or Expedition won't hurt my stamsorc.
Direct healing dk. Gives healing. + bonus to healing from lost health + plus buff to health regeneration + dot damage + damage when you are hit. I play without a vampire and use health regeneration.
I don't see the point in your argument because skills can only have 10 effects at a time. For a necromancer, if you combine the skeleton of a mage and a skill that gives a buff that gives 6 armor, then it will still be worse than a sorcerer's hurricane. Conclusion: you need to nerf the sorcerer. Exactly your logic.
If you remove the dot effect or direct healing from the polar wind, then it will be put into another skill, since the warden will become much weaker. And you will again come to the forum to tell which your sorcerer is weak and which warden is strong. The class was crap for a long time and people wrote every day to strengthen the class and that it would not be crap like a necromancer now and you come and tell that the class is too strong even though in fact it is in the middle. This is not even the strongest class and does not go into the top 2. This is ridiculous.
I've said before and I'll say it now. You are a hypocrite. Trying to strengthen the sorcerer and weaken everyone else.
Lmao ok I’m a hypocrite for asking for nerfs to one of the strongest classes in the game and wanting buffs for one of the weakest specs in the game.
You clearly have a negative agenda towards Sorc, and weirdly, to me. So let’s end it here since it’s not going to be any more constructive, if it ever was. Please move on to another thread 🤣
Your comment above shows how hard it is to kill a warden but have you ever thought that killing a stam sorcerer is even harder?? Dk and nb are considered in the first place, but they are much easier to kill. They do not stun crowds of enemies every 7 seconds and do not run away from combat when they want.
I offered obvious solutions to many problems. It doesn't seem to interest you. But you are very interested in nerfing to hell with everything that does not suit you and that does not suit you too much. Because of people like you, pvp suffers. Because there were so many nerfs in the game that it’s almost impossible to play without certain sets, and the meta has become the only possible way to play otherwise you won’t kill anyone.
I played both dk and warden. And it is very difficult to fight against a stam sorcerers. With warden, I have never been able to kill a stam sorcerer for the event. His combo destroys in 5-6 seconds. I fought for the event and killed both dk and nb and wardens, but never at all so that I could kill a stam sorcerer .
Only playing as DK I was able to kill a stam sorcerer, but because of the ring and the skill that heals due to crits, this sorcerer and most sorcerers heal more than any other class and at the same time he does not need to press healing skills every 6-10 seconds.
I am very much dissatisfied with this specification of the sorcerer. Why does another sorcerer enter the bg and kill 20 players each and no one can catch up with him or kill him. I don't remember any class that they are capable of. And you do not need to bring dk or nb.
You can say that this cyber cutlet came to play, but why do these cyber cutlets come to the stam of the sorcerer?? And even dk and nb are hardly capable of this. Nb is considered top 1 class but I was the least likely to die from them as they are so predictable that it is easy to avoid damage. But it is impossible to avoid Wrath of Elements and curse and streak with stun. Each sorcerer uses three skills at the start of combat and nothing can be dodged or blocked. Is this honest?? I don't remember that warden's stun worked so well or any other skill.
Due to the popularity of the DK, he is considered to be the strongest class, but in fact, the fight against the sorcerer is the most difficult.
I kill stamsorcs faster than I kill Wardens, and I see Wardens killing stamsorcs everyday.
Your experience is not the same as mine, we can end that here
Stamsorcs survive only by putting enough pressure on someone to prevent them from doing damage back lol
Once a stam sorc is on the back foot its over. There is no playing defensive on stam sorc and no real way to recover once youve hit that red zone. Wardens can live for as long as their resources last
Sorc really is the only class that can have full resources and not be able to recover lol
Precisely this. I duel in stormhaven while waiting for BG queues and the amount of stamsorcs in meta proc set builds getting destroyed by Ice Staff Wardens is hilarious.
They think they can just slot mDW, Vate Ice, and Maarselok on a stamsorc and think they can beat a decent Warden lol. Warden without those sets will still pull top DPS while having better survivability. There’s no contest here.
Why don't you use a restoration staff back bar instead of vate ice staff??
You can then slot blessing of restoration.
Then I won't have space for Major Breach, and Blessing of Restoration costs almost 1k more mag than other class burst heals for a smaller tooltip. Not to mention I also have less block mitigation. No thanks. I'm already using enough weapon skills. I would rather not become more of a blank character.
What is your build if you don't mind me asking?
I was trying to go without major breach, just using lover mundus and sharpened for pen.
But my sorc isn't going to survive very long without a restoration staff.
I wonder if Maras balm might be good on a sorc
Mara’s Balm was actually justifiable on Sorc. Too bad they nerfed the set.
I’m using Essence Thief, Trickery, Sea Serpent’s Coil, and Balorgh/Engine Guardian.
Front bar skills:
Arterial Burst, Crystal Wep, Curse, Rally, Surge
Back bar:
Streak, Dark Deal, Vigor, Elesus, Hurricane
For BG or openworld I swap Elesus with Caltrops.
That sounds like a difficult to play build. How do you catch anybody? Especially with streak on your back bar.
I lean heavily into ranged or AOE attacks otherwise it's hard to hit anybody.
You catch people by moving fast. I’m an Orc wearing 5 medium with Celerity CP and 3x Swift. When Sea Serpent doesn’t proc, my maximum speed including sprint is 211%, or 11% over the speed cap. This is not including Major Expedition. I can chase down pretty much anyone without needing a gap closer.
Normally, people just chase me down lol, so I don’t really need to chase the fight. The fight comes to me.
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SandandStars✭✭✭✭✭To adress OP’s original point: yes, those 45k hp warden polar wind spammers are super annoying; however, as others pointed out, Warden has no execute or class spammable (birds are useless).
The strong heal depends on committing exclusively to high health. Those guys shouldn’t be getting many kills unless you have low ping and they dizzy swing you to death (happens to me sometimes).
So, while I agree polar has the potential to be overpowered and abused by blocking tanks, that comes at the expense of mediocre/non-existent class offensive options. If you nerf warden’s survivability, they’ll go back to C-tier.
Their offense is not on par with DK or NB. And their sustain is pretty bad as well.
Not sure what a good solution is, but I feel there are worse offenders to PvP class balance at the moment.Edited by SandandStars on 18 July 2023 17:291 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭Spores is a group heal snd not a solo heal.Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Polar wouldn't be a 15k burst heal if there was a hard cap on how many attribute points you could put into health.
Wouldn't have 50k HP DK's either for that matter.
2 birds with 1 stone.
The problem is that you’d be making things difficult for PvE tanks, who often need every drop of HP they can get. Besides, high HP isn’t the issue. Try putting all your attributes into HP, then going into a No Proc/No CP with an off-meta build and you’ll see that high HP just means it takes an extra second to melt you.
The issue is the absolutely ludicrous amount of sustain you can maintain with nothing invested into your offensive stats. When you can hold block while hammering the heal button and not run out of juice, that’s when things get ridiculous.
I agree on this. People wouldn't be comfortable running 18k stamina if they didn't have such an easy time recovering it.
Dont know where this narrative that sustain is so easy to get comes from. Having to use expensive tristat/heroism pots, orzargas smoked bearhauch/ juwels of misrule and/or wretchet vitality/other sustain set is not exactly what I would call easy to sustain. Orzargas smoked bearhauch costs 20k per unit and gives 700 max hp and 4250 max stam/mag less than sugarskulls for about 400 stam/mag regen. Without this investment in sustain you dont have an easy time recovering it.
The more important reason for people stacking HP is probably that max stamina is seen as a worthless stat especially since introduction of new cp system. 2019 race passive change and 2021 cp change converted percent stat boni to flat stat boni, not only decreases the effektiveness of stamina/magicka stacking but also the missing stamina/magicka to get a decent pool. Race passives increased max stamina/magicka by about 10%, cp by 20%. Althought max health was also affected by percent increase removal, health cant be replaced by resistance or other stats as easy as stamina/magicka can be replaced by wpn/spell dmg and stam/mag regen.
Some stat sources like attribute points or armor glyphs allow the player only to choose between the attributes health, stamina and magicka. 45k hp 7k wpn dmg wardens choose health over stamina/magicka but wpn dmg over health.
They put 64 attribute points in health but wear infused insteat of health juwelry and dmg sets like clever alchemist and rallyng cry insteat of health sets like plague doctor. They also use orzarga insteat of sugarskulls.
The dmg increase of 1 wpn dmg is equal to the one of 10.45 max stamina/magicka.
1 minor set bonus wpn dmg is 129 wpn dmg. This gets increased by 10% minor brutality, 20% major brutality, up to 14% from medium armor and a few percent fromfighters guild skills.With all these increases we end up with 155-190 wpn dmg.
1 minor set bonus max stamina/magicka is 1096 max stamina/magicka(105wpn dmg). This gets increased only by up to 6% from undaunted and only when slottet by 5% from magelight and 8% from bound aegis. With only undaunted passive we end with about 1168 max stamina/magicka(112 wpn dmg). Before they were removed cp increased stats by 20% and race passive some stats by up to 10-12%. With this increases we would reach about 1500 max stamina/magicka(143 wpn dmg).
2018 max stamina/magicka was a good dmg stat and players used sets like draugr hulk, bone pirate, necropotence, bright throat boast, alfiq, ancient grave or shacklebreaker to boost them.
2020 max stam/mag was still better than crit and before proc meta players still used stat food and 64 points in stamina or magicka.
2022 stamina/magicka is worst dmg stat and players choose almost every other stat over it.Urzigurumash wrote: »Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Polar wouldn't be a 15k burst heal if there was a hard cap on how many attribute points you could put into health.
Wouldn't have 50k HP DK's either for that matter.
2 birds with 1 stone.
The problem is that you’d be making things difficult for PvE tanks, who often need every drop of HP they can get. Besides, high HP isn’t the issue. Try putting all your attributes into HP, then going into a No Proc/No CP with an off-meta build and you’ll see that high HP just means it takes an extra second to melt you.
The issue is the absolutely ludicrous amount of sustain you can maintain with nothing invested into your offensive stats. When you can hold block while hammering the heal button and not run out of juice, that’s when things get ridiculous.
I agree on this. People wouldn't be comfortable running 18k stamina if they didn't have such an easy time recovering it.
I agree too, it's true some HP stacking was motivated by the removal of the Champion percentile bonus to Mag/Stam and the additional 1k base Weapon/Spell Damage but - along with Undeath - it might easily be fixed by a new reduction of sustain. Very few people stacked HP back when it could exceed 70k (prior to the racial revision in 2019 - and granted many would've during the Malacath era had we still had the old racial passives, since we still had unscaled procs / unpenalized Heavy / unhalved HP Regen).
So let me ask again:
Would a massive hit to Damage/Healing in Battlespirit indirectly accomplish a massive hit to sustain? Seems like it right, or no? We'd have more time to easily Heavy Attack for sustain, but, on most specs these do pitiful damage nowadays.
You admit yourself that the removal of 20% cp stat increase motivated HP stacking but insteat of buffing max stamina/magicka stacking you suggest to nerf sustain? Why? nerfing sustain is a horrible idea.StaticWave wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Ugh I hate heavy attacking.
Isn't the sustain only an issue for CP campaign?.
I'm bias but nerfing sustain just sucks the fun out of everything, not just PvP. I hate heavy attacking.
I say just disable CP for all PVP.
No point in dividing everyone into so many campaigns.
CP is PVE only. Battlegrounds has been more fun anyway.
The horse simulator has been boring.
Fun in battlegrounds ends when high health polar wind spamming wardens join the match. Nothing more boring than that.
There’s a 58k Warden on PC NA who does just that in BGs. It takes 3 people to kill him and even with 3 people it takes a while. Imagine a team with 3 45k HP Wardens in 7k WD and a 58k HP warden throwing out heals. Yea good luck dying lol.
Solving most problems.
Increase healing and damage from magic and stamina stats. Where it leads. Players who invert in hp get powerful shields and healing skills dependent on max hp but lose a lot of damage but players with 30+ stamina or magic get more healing and damage. In fact, these are solutions to most problems. This will result in stable builds through max specs and less dependency on prox sets and overclocking weapon damage.
After all, this is how classes used to exist. And the players killed due to the abilities of the class and their hands and not proc sets.
ExactlyEdited by Iriidius on 18 July 2023 11:342
