Why don't you think they have/will adjust DK in PVP?

Mrtoobyy

As the title says, I hope they would do something to DK this chapter but it seems not.
What do you think are the reasons?

Vevvev

Because the class isn't a bad class, but it's suffering from a power overload created by hybridization.

Back when we still had a split in how things worked the mag and stam DKs were balanced separately in a sense, but now that both specs have all the tools... it's a bit problematic.

The class was originally designed for tanking, and tanks are supposed to be able to use both resources pools relatively well while being able to take a hit. On the DPS side of things it's supposed to burn out incredibly fast with sustain issues, but now you have DPS a class that can equally burn out two resources pools instead of all in on one.

Sure there's more nuisances than that, but bigger picture .... how do you even balance a class like DK and not ruin it? They already killed Templars and I think they don't know what to do with DKs.

Tradewind

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

As the title says, I hope they would do something to DK this chapter but it seems not.
What do you think are the reasons?

unless it's a DK with HA rip

Ratzkifal

From what I can tell, DKs are in a good spot right now mainly because everyone else is in a bad spot. I would hope they leave DK more or less as it is but buff the other classes to be able to compete.
Stamplar in particular has suffered greatly and still hasn't recovered from U35 when their main spammable was gutted. All the other changes made to compensate them mainly compensated magplar, not stamplar.
I'm guessing ZOS is trying exactly that, buffing the other classes, but as we know, their balance changes don't always do the things they wanted them to do.

VaranisArano

They will. Eventually. ESO is like the medieval Wheel of Fortune. Some updates you're on top, then it spins and you fall, bringing new ones to the top.

Mrtoobyy

Vevvev wrote: »

Because the class isn't a bad class, but it's suffering from a power overload created by hybridization.

Back when we still had a split in how things worked the mag and stam DKs were balanced separately in a sense, but now that both specs have all the tools... it's a bit problematic.

The class was originally designed for tanking, and tanks are supposed to be able to use both resources pools relatively well while being able to take a hit. On the DPS side of things it's supposed to burn out incredibly fast with sustain issues, but now you have DPS a class that can equally burn out two resources pools instead of all in on one.

Sure there's more nuisances than that, but bigger picture .... how do you even balance a class like DK and not ruin it? They already killed Templars and I think they don't know what to do with DKs.

Yeah it's a tough one but I think looking into their ultimates and fine tuning them would be a start. Reducing their defensive kit by just 2-4% would be a start. I don't want them hammer-nerfed since they are alot of fun to play but just some fine tuning would be great. It's way overdue IMO

SkaraMinoc

Corrosive needs a nerf. No player should have the ability to bypass enemy resists while simultaneously reducing damage taken to 3% of max health. Pick one or the other: Corrosive Weapon or Corrosive Armor. But not both.

Urzigurumash

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Corrosive needs a nerf. No player should have the ability to bypass enemy resists while simultaneously reducing damage taken to 3% of max health. Pick one or the other: Corrosive Weapon or Corrosive Armor. But not both.

Theme and Mechanics should interact and support each other, Theme shouldn't be destroyed for a Mechanical convenience.

A class Ult for DK which just gives you Max Pen is neither needed, fun, nor interesting. Corrosive should be akin to Winterborn, Ravenous Goliath, Vamp Ult, etc., but with the rock and noxious gas "Green DK" theme. Read more about it here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/608013/corrosive-armor-needs-a-nerf

Urzigurumash

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Because the class isn't a bad class, but it's suffering from a power overload created by hybridization.

Back when we still had a split in how things worked the mag and stam DKs were balanced separately in a sense, but now that both specs have all the tools... it's a bit problematic.

The class was originally designed for tanking, and tanks are supposed to be able to use both resources pools relatively well while being able to take a hit. On the DPS side of things it's supposed to burn out incredibly fast with sustain issues, but now you have DPS a class that can equally burn out two resources pools instead of all in on one.

Sure there's more nuisances than that, but bigger picture .... how do you even balance a class like DK and not ruin it? They already killed Templars and I think they don't know what to do with DKs.

Yeah it's a tough one but I think looking into their ultimates and fine tuning them would be a start. Reducing their defensive kit by just 2-4% would be a start. I don't want them hammer-nerfed since they are alot of fun to play but just some fine tuning would be great. It's way overdue IMO

Or just adjusting the Battlespirit Mitigation by like 5% and see how things go. I still believe the higher damage is in general, the better Sorcs do without any adjustment to their kit, seems to have played out over the years. At least on Xbox NA the debut of No Procrodiil was MagSorc city, and that wasn't too long ago, it was right before the buffs to DK and Templar. Not to say I'm not in favor of giving mSorc in-class Breach / Prophecy, definitely am.

DrNukenstein

I think taking away their melee range advantage is going to solve a lot of the problems.

It's going to be very different to play as or against a dk with out that 2 meters where they can do stuff and you can't.

Houshiki

In all honesty, DKs are getting a lowkey buff next patch, for pvp at least, imo. I haven't gone too in depth, but why you may ask? Well...

ZoS: I know what we can do! Let's introduce a new set that gives easy and ready access to major heroism!

If you're wondering which set, Transformative Hope.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

CompM4s

I only hope they tweak corrosive. I think it should be either offensive or defensive, not both.

Mayrael

CompM4s wrote: »

I only hope they tweak corrosive. I think it should be either offensive or defensive, not both.

I've been saying the same thing since the introduction of the hybridization we have now. Instead of making weird moves in an unspecified direction, it is necessary to bring this ult to the standard of others. Yes, I know it takes away the fun of using this ult, but at the moment, DK takes away the fun from all other classes by having a tool that no one else even comes close to having.

Mrtoobyy

CompM4s wrote: »

I only hope they tweak corrosive. I think it should be either offensive or defensive, not both.

That would be great! The current version during the latest patches is just plain stupid as alot of ZOS logic behind the "balancing" of the game is.

It's so sad thinking of how PVP could be in this game.

Rogue_WolfESO

Stop asking for everything to be nerfed into uselessness.
How about we get rid of NB's cloak ability? Tired of getting slammed by a player who just disappears instead of toe to toe fighting with me.
Let's end this crap op Jesus beam spamming from templars, tired of getting killed by that.
Let's get rid of poison injection hitting for 15k!
Seige is too strong, frigging cold fire shouldn't hit for 50k.
Sounds like some players need to find a new game 🤷‍♂️
I wish the devs would undo every nerf ever made and let us just all run buck wild.

olsborg

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Corrosive needs a nerf. No player should have the ability to bypass enemy resists while simultaneously reducing damage taken to 3% of max health. Pick one or the other: Corrosive Weapon or Corrosive Armor. But not both.

I dont think any ultimate should be that strong and penetrate 100% of anyones armor...its too much specially on a class that already has some of the best dmg in the game without corrosive.

ItsNotLiving

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

Stop asking for everything to be nerfed into uselessness.
How about we get rid of NB's cloak ability? Tired of getting slammed by a player who just disappears instead of toe to toe fighting with me.
Let's end this crap op Jesus beam spamming from templars, tired of getting killed by that.
Let's get rid of poison injection hitting for 15k!
Seige is too strong, frigging cold fire shouldn't hit for 50k.
Sounds like some players need to find a new game 🤷‍♂️
I wish the devs would undo every nerf ever made and let us just all run buck wild.

Yeah bring back 14m radius higher execute modifier Steel Tornado! Nothing could go wrong!

Mrtoobyy

olsborg wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Corrosive needs a nerf. No player should have the ability to bypass enemy resists while simultaneously reducing damage taken to 3% of max health. Pick one or the other: Corrosive Weapon or Corrosive Armor. But not both.

I dont think any ultimate should be that strong and penetrate 100% of anyones armor...its too much specially on a class that already has some of the best dmg in the game without corrosive.

Don't forget the fact that DK has ALOT of AOE attacks wich makes the ulti even stronger. I think it should ONLY affect single target direct damage attacks.
AND the lag has come back for me since the anniversay is over, ZOS I thought you had upgraded the servers!?

NordSwordnBoard

They're possibly trying to come up with a flat penetration number better than full Balorgh's (11,500), but not quite Onslaught 100% pen considering Corrosive does more than one thing. Corrosive should be strong, but it's a boring meta with corrosive cleaves spam. Single button bombing had its day, lets move on.

Galeriano

Part of the DK strenght in PvP atm is that almost everyone is stage 3 vampire because of undeath passive which makes DK stronger by default.

Galeriano

Houshiki wrote: »

In all honesty, DKs are getting a lowkey buff next patch, for pvp at least, imo. I haven't gone too in depth, but why you may ask? Well...

ZoS: I know what we can do! Let's introduce a new set that gives easy and ready access to major heroism!

If you're wondering which set, Transformative Hope.

That set is nice but the requirement is very conditional. You will have to make sure that excatly 3 seconds after You went under 40% HP You will be sitting at 90%+ HP. Not that easy to do in PvP. It could be good for a healer. For a DK there are better sets to apply major heroism already for example drake's rush.

markulrich1966

complaining about a class is not how this game works. Instead, create a character using this class. Because today is DK, yesterday it was Necro (I did cyro before U35, and very quick got the nice dye rewarded for the "grand Necromancer Slayer"). Tomorrow maybe Arcanist or another class that benefits from the helpless attempts to "balance" them.

Whatever they do, it somehow backfires, this is why players like me end up using all 18 slots after some years. 2 of each class, stam and mag, just to have 1 you currently use as "main".

Mrtoobyy

markulrich1966 wrote: »

complaining about a class is not how this game works. Instead, create a character using this class. Because today is DK, yesterday it was Necro (I did cyro before U35, and very quick got the nice dye rewarded for the "grand Necromancer Slayer"). Tomorrow maybe Arcanist or another class that benefits from the helpless attempts to "balance" them.

Whatever they do, it somehow backfires, this is why players like me end up using all 18 slots after some years. 2 of each class, stam and mag, just to have 1 you currently use as "main".

I have a toon of every class so it's not that mate I just think PVP is swayed toward a specific direction wich is in favour of DK's.
I just don't get why ZOS do things they way they do. Why not try to make a game the best it could be without changing stuff all the time

El_Borracho

markulrich1966 wrote: »

complaining about a class is not how this game works. Instead, create a character using this class. Because today is DK, yesterday it was Necro (I did cyro before U35, and very quick got the nice dye rewarded for the "grand Necromancer Slayer"). Tomorrow maybe Arcanist or another class that benefits from the helpless attempts to "balance" them.

Whatever they do, it somehow backfires, this is why players like me end up using all 18 slots after some years. 2 of each class, stam and mag, just to have 1 you currently use as "main".

I could not agree more. When I started playing, the stamblade reigned supreme in PVP. Then they nerfed it to the ground and I did not play my stamblade for 2 years, until Werewolf got its day in the sun with Crimson + Alessian Order. Then werewolves got nerfed, stamblade back on the shelf. Then hybridization happened, stamblade is back... then they nerf stealth. But then burst damage is the new meta, so all the core skills get detuned.

At the same time, the DK was pretty much only a PVE and PVP tank. It wasn't until maybe 2 years ago the Mag DK rose from the ashes to become a PVE and PVP beast. Honestly, I'm surprised they just keep making DK stronger. To the point I still laugh at threads complaining about the beast DKs running through PVP

BTW: I am loving the era of the DK. Was my first character and love being able to do more than tank. It is a killing machine and finally super fun to play. Much better than players realizing you have a non-tank DK in PVP and swarm to be the first to kill it

cuddles_with_wroble

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

As the title says, I hope they would do something to DK this chapter but it seems not.
What do you think are the reasons?

the class is def good but as someone already said, most of that is because of the power creep created by the hybridization changes in update 35.

however i will say that alot like nightblade the class crushes lower skilled and newer players bcs they just dont have the game knowledge nor the builds normally to survive the pressure of a DK.

DK is a great all around class with good utlity, DoT pressure, Burst on 3 proc whip and survivability with its innate tankiness and crazy heal scaling.

i dont really think DK itself needs a nerf to be balanced but i think its an issue with the state of the game that makes the class feel really strong when you play or fight it.

in high end pvp its normally used a support dps whether that be dropping buffs or talon spamming + DoT pressure, although with corrosive setups you do get hit for 15- 20k whips sometimes which is rather insane but thats an issue with corrosive as a whole and many people have an opinion on that ulti.

in low end pvp however the class is a menace as its pressure is hard to survive as people dont know how to play around it and its really really hard to kill bcs most people just dont know how to properly burst a target.

my advice is to look out for corrosive and make sure you know when to kite the dk ( just run away if someone uses corrosive, there is no point in fighting them if its up) and keep your heals up so you dont get caught low hp due to DoTs and get whip combo'd

finehair

I don't know why you're complaining about corrosive, it is the same as bone Goliath, when it is active just move away until that very short time is done. You can still block or roll. It ignores all resistances not all mitigations. Also it has been nerfed already by only affecting direct dmg attacks. If you change it to only attack or defense, it will be nothing but 2h ulti but in green. Then you'll complain about onslaught having fewer ulti cost than corrosive. I never like using this but somethings are really just skill issue.

nublife01

i guarentee you nothing will be done about the class. and yes it is brokenly op even for players without skill.

edit: look at fossilize in no cp. you can literally put only tank gear on and just spam that ability on another player and simply win the fight because of the stamina drain that ability by itself does to an enemy. they need a nerf. they have needed a nerf for years. its not going to happen. there are rumors going around on why it wont get nerfed which i cannot discuss on these forums without getting banned.

nublife01

finehair wrote: »

I don't know why you're complaining about corrosive, it is the same as bone Goliath, when it is active just move away until that very short time is done. You can still block or roll. It ignores all resistances not all mitigations. Also it has been nerfed already by only affecting direct dmg attacks. If you change it to only attack or defense, it will be nothing but 2h ulti but in green. Then you'll complain about onslaught having fewer ulti cost than corrosive. I never like using this but somethings are really just skill issue.

"just move away while its active" dude i cant tell if youre actually serious or not. this class as the most broken cc in the game and youre telling players "oh yea just move away from the dk while its active" come on man be realistic

nublife01

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

As the title says, I hope they would do something to DK this chapter but it seems not.
What do you think are the reasons?

the class is def good but as someone already said, most of that is because of the power creep created by the hybridization changes in update 35.

however i will say that alot like nightblade the class crushes lower skilled and newer players bcs they just dont have the game knowledge nor the builds normally to survive the pressure of a DK.

DK is a great all around class with good utlity, DoT pressure, Burst on 3 proc whip and survivability with its innate tankiness and crazy heal scaling.

i dont really think DK itself needs a nerf to be balanced but i think its an issue with the state of the game that makes the class feel really strong when you play or fight it.

in high end pvp its normally used a support dps whether that be dropping buffs or talon spamming + DoT pressure, although with corrosive setups you do get hit for 15- 20k whips sometimes which is rather insane but thats an issue with corrosive as a whole and many people have an opinion on that ulti.

in low end pvp however the class is a menace as its pressure is hard to survive as people dont know how to play around it and its really really hard to kill bcs most people just dont know how to properly burst a target.

my advice is to look out for corrosive and make sure you know when to kite the dk ( just run away if someone uses corrosive, there is no point in fighting them if its up) and keep your heals up so you dont get caught low hp due to DoTs and get whip combo'd

its the combination of high pressure with the most broken cc mechanics in the game. it is not high pressure by itself. fossilize on its own can drain a players stamina pool completely. the difference between nightblade and dk is that nightblade you have to choose between high cc and utility or damage you cannot have both. dk you dont have to choose. i mean the cc abilities even buff their damage which is how old nightblade used to be and why it got nerfed and its ability power spread out. dk needs the exact same treatment. has nothing to do with the current meta or anything like that. has everything to do with the class abilities themselves. they are that broken and need a nerf/rework.

nublife01

markulrich1966 wrote: »

complaining about a class is not how this game works. Instead, create a character using this class. Because today is DK, yesterday it was Necro (I did cyro before U35, and very quick got the nice dye rewarded for the "grand Necromancer Slayer"). Tomorrow maybe Arcanist or another class that benefits from the helpless attempts to "balance" them.

Whatever they do, it somehow backfires, this is why players like me end up using all 18 slots after some years. 2 of each class, stam and mag, just to have 1 you currently use as "main".

yep create a character. spend "gold" to power level it and "time" to level up all the skill lines right before theres a different meta for everyone to spend "gold" and "time" chasing after. eso in a nutshell. diablo 4 comes out in early june. ill be peacin out around then.