No DK nerfs?

Howda

Afterip wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Problem is tank meta in PvP and dk as best tank class always will be better in that meta. You can of course nerf to the ground their damage but than it will AGAIN useless in PvE. I play dk as dd mostly in PvE and I don't want another serious nerf, because PvP is inbalanced.

Dk is a tank who can also do incredible damage in pvp. Few days ago i was hitten by DK's crit wisp 11K!, even through my 2100 impen...

My blastbone NEVER HIT SO HARD AS DK CAN!

Hitting you with 11k whip is isolated case and possible situation comes from game mechanics and needs quite the pre-built burst combo that only high-end can perform at all times and needs a combo of sets and small window to perform.

So you need Mechanical Acuity or lucky crit, Corrosive active, off balanced target preferred, if you are on low health and DK has dual wield additional benefits, if they run bloodthirsty additional dmg bonus etc.

New items needs a nerf not the class.

Treeshka

Do whatever you want guys but please do not gut an entire class because of Player versus Player situations. No monster has complained yet why they are getting killed and all of their mechanics are ignored.

On the other hand why Dragonknight is very good in trials is basically recently released content has a main with a mini boss or multiple bosses, and some small adds all together. Dragonknight has strong dots which can be applied to multiple targets all at once. So class shines where area damage is important which is majority of the content basically.

Also majority of the damage is flame damage and there is a monster set that buffs flame damage by five percent with a relatively high uptime. Their own kit also has a skill that buffs flame damage by six percent.

nublife01

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Don’t worry soon class identity will be a myth.

came back a few days ago after not having played this game since right before the cp rework and after this week i feel this ^ in my soul.

edit: i am not grammar good

nemesrichard

I dont play this game long but compared to other mmos in this game every class even if specced into dps or tank role can do too much healing and it ruins pvp balance. And as mentioned above diferent pvp and pve sets would help too.

olsborg

Id also like to spit in here that blockcasting heals with snb or froststaff is way too strong too, all classes can do it ofc, but classes with burstheals such as DK does it with such ease.

emilyhyoyeon

Treeshka wrote: »

On the other hand why Dragonknight is very good in trials is basically recently released content has a main with a mini boss or multiple bosses, and some small adds all together. Dragonknight has strong dots which can be applied to multiple targets all at once. So class shines where area damage is important which is majority of the content basically.

Also majority of the damage is flame damage and there is a monster set that buffs flame damage by five percent with a relatively high uptime. Their own kit also has a skill that buffs flame damage by six percent.

They have been this way the past year+. It wasn't this overwhelmingly DK before that.

Van_Winkle

Lol. If DK is so OP, why there is so much wardens in pvp? Nobody cares, that wardens have everything that DK haves and much more? Just another "nerf everything that i can't kill!!!1" thread.

KS_Amt38

People are only speaking about the PvP perspective but in PvE it is also horrible.

DKs are outperforming everything and it is like that since a couple of patches. For example at Xalvakka HM in Rockgrove, the ranking consists of 90 DKs in the Top 100 DPS list. The lists are similar in every other Trial/Boss except of vAS.

LtClungeX

i think buff other classes.

Xarc

Abadd wrote: »

maybe it doesn't need nerfs, it's just everything else that needs buffs

ye we have 2 options :

1) change everything
2) change one only thing: DK

ujimax

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Sn9wv9m7W6E

DK is gimp unless you're a Mara Chimp.

i11ionward

Van_Winkle wrote: »

Lol. If DK is so OP, why there is so much wardens in pvp? Nobody cares, that wardens have everything that DK haves and much more? Just another "nerf everything that i can't kill!!!1" thread.

1. There are definitely fewer wardens than dk.
2. Wardens are getting a minor nerf for the second patch in a row.

Jammy420

Van_Winkle wrote: »

Lol. If DK is so OP, why there is so much wardens in pvp? Nobody cares, that wardens have everything that DK haves and much more? Just another "nerf everything that i can't kill!!!1" thread.

How to say you have no idea about class balance without saying it.

Xarc wrote: »

Abadd wrote: »

maybe it doesn't need nerfs, it's just everything else that needs buffs

ye we have 2 options :

1) change everything
2) change one only thing: DK

Logic is not allowed in these halls!

Zastrix

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

On the other hand why Dragonknight is very good in trials is basically recently released content has a main with a mini boss or multiple bosses, and some small adds all together. Dragonknight has strong dots which can be applied to multiple targets all at once. So class shines where area damage is important which is majority of the content basically.

Also majority of the damage is flame damage and there is a monster set that buffs flame damage by five percent with a relatively high uptime. Their own kit also has a skill that buffs flame damage by six percent.

They have been this way the past year+. It wasn't this overwhelmingly DK before that.

Sorry, how do you see that DKs are the top DDs there, is it the color of the name? (Genuine question, not bashing / baiting)

Lucifer9th

For PVP aspect, magma armor and morphs needs to not reduce player damage
Dk don't need a god mode in pvp to perform

Van_Winkle

Jammy420 wrote: »

Van_Winkle wrote: »

Lol. If DK is so OP, why there is so much wardens in pvp? Nobody cares, that wardens have everything that DK haves and much more? Just another "nerf everything that i can't kill!!!1" thread.

How to say you have no idea about class balance without saying it.

Really? I have no idea about class balance?) And what are you know about this?) "Nerf DK cause they kill me!!!" - is this how you know situation?)

i11ionward

Zastrix wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

On the other hand why Dragonknight is very good in trials is basically recently released content has a main with a mini boss or multiple bosses, and some small adds all together. Dragonknight has strong dots which can be applied to multiple targets all at once. So class shines where area damage is important which is majority of the content basically.

Also majority of the damage is flame damage and there is a monster set that buffs flame damage by five percent with a relatively high uptime. Their own kit also has a skill that buffs flame damage by six percent.

They have been this way the past year+. It wasn't this overwhelmingly DK before that.

Sorry, how do you see that DKs are the top DDs there, is it the color of the name? (Genuine question, not bashing / baiting)

Orange nicknames are DK

AndreNoir

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

They effectively deleted the Elder Dragon passive from PvP. DK no longer has a melee reach advantage and gained nothing in return for losing that advantage. It's much more significant than it first looks, especially when it comes to the faster paced competitive action. Meanwhile, NBs spamming 7m range Veiled Strike on you is gonna be FUN...

They just returned everyone to an original stance with those 7m. No need to fool anyone here

katorga

Lucifer9th wrote: »

For PVP aspect, magma armor and morphs needs to not reduce player damage
Dk don't need a god mode in pvp to perform

Next chapter with new ulti-gen sets, will be easy to stay in Corrosive Armor permanently. You can almost chain cast it now with the right builds.

Ironic, as soon as a Sorc could chain cast the Atro and have two up at once, ZOS nerfed the heck out of it. Permanent Corrosive....nothing.

Jammy420

Van_Winkle wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Van_Winkle wrote: »

Lol. If DK is so OP, why there is so much wardens in pvp? Nobody cares, that wardens have everything that DK haves and much more? Just another "nerf everything that i can't kill!!!1" thread.

How to say you have no idea about class balance without saying it.

Really? I have no idea about class balance?) And what are you know about this?) "Nerf DK cause they kill me!!!" - is this how you know situation?)

No, being on the forums and reading the player feedback about dks for the last 2 updates however, is.

jaysins

Several issues in pvp right now that DKs benefit from more than others, primarily being burst heals and block mitigation. Stacking heals is an overall issue, but doesn't seem to overly benefits DKs more than other classes.

Being able to block indefinitely and cast burst heals while blocking and maintain resources under any scenario is ridiculous and in pvp is especially terrible. It's just too easy to sustain turtling up as a DK while simultaneously healing yourself. You can build for good damage and still do this unless outnumbered by a few people. There needs to be adjustments to this in general. Maybe you can block cast heals over time but burst heals should have a dark deal like counterplay where you drop block momentarily and can be interupted.

Also, and maybe for enact it for battle spirit, but resources should be harder to maintain while blocking. Halved, or quartered, even applying to pots, but there needs to be some adjustments here as it's too easy and not fun to maintain.

Damage wise DKs are strong and likely need a small tone down in PvP but nothing massive. Undoing vampire fire damage would likely be enough, but I would prefer this is toned down carefully and not with a heavy hand as I think the defensive/healing part of their kit is the most overtuned and most obnoxious part to deal with.

DirtyDeeds765

What you really meant to say was, "No buffs for classes other than DK?".

The answer isn't making the DK weak like other classes. Its making other classes strong like the DK.

@DirtyDeeds765

StShoot

olsborg wrote: »

Id also like to spit in here that blockcasting heals with snb or froststaff is way too strong too, all classes can do it ofc, but classes with burstheals such as DK does it with such ease.

Doesnt every class in the game have access to a stong burst heal ? The cause of the tank meta arnt dks or any other class, and its not blockcasted healing either. The Problem lies within the hybridisation, some years ago most of the stamina specs were limited to either vigor or rally for their heals, while magica specs mostly relied on their classheals or had to slot a restro in order to heal (which prevented them from stacking to much defense on their backbar and made it easyer for zos to balance the diffrent specs). These days 99% of the magica specs in pvp have one morph of vigor equiped, all stamina specs use their class specific burst heal even though it costs magica (BoL/Dragonblood/ResistenFlesh/Sacrifice etc.)
The hybrid scaling just enabeled too much healing for all classes.

StarOfElyon

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Right but the Templar keeps your healthbar full. Even offensively spec'd plars are essentially healers on the back bar. DK support mostly takes the form of offense. If they don't have that then their usefulness in a team comp is minimal. Currently the only reason to bring a DK vs a Warden in group BG's is the DK has better killing power. Take that away then there is very little reason not to just replace them with a Warden.

Fair point re Mist Form. Everyone competes with Sorcs now.

Not "literal" oblivion damage.

Don't undervalue the impact of chains and fossilize on any team.

StarOfElyon

ujimax wrote: »

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Sn9wv9m7W6E

DK is gimp unless you're a Mara Chimp.

I think Maras is probably what makes the biggest difference. It is almost like the brokensoul DKs who rarely had to go on defense. Maras is a problem on every class.

katorga

StShoot wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Id also like to spit in here that blockcasting heals with snb or froststaff is way too strong too, all classes can do it ofc, but classes with burstheals such as DK does it with such ease.

Doesnt every class in the game have access to a stong burst heal ? The cause of the tank meta arnt dks or any other class, and its not blockcasted healing either. The Problem lies within the hybridisation, some years ago most of the stamina specs were limited to either vigor or rally for their heals, while magica specs mostly relied on their classheals or had to slot a restro in order to heal (which prevented them from stacking to much defense on their backbar and made it easyer for zos to balance the diffrent specs). These days 99% of the magica specs in pvp have one morph of vigor equiped, all stamina specs use their class specific burst heal even though it costs magica (BoL/Dragonblood/ResistenFlesh/Sacrifice etc.)
The hybrid scaling just enabeled too much healing for all classes.

DK's is self only so no risk of it going to someone else.

ketsparrowhawk

DirtyDeeds765 wrote: »

What you really meant to say was, "No buffs for classes other than DK?".

The answer isn't making the DK weak like other classes. Its making other classes strong like the DK.

@DirtyDeeds765

This mindset always makes me laugh.

One class is overpowered so we need to rebalance the ENTIRE GAME rather than just address the one problem class. Glad you're not my boss.

Eliran

They nerfed stamblade instead to make sure even those who left will reroll DKs.

xDeusEJRx

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

DirtyDeeds765 wrote: »

What you really meant to say was, "No buffs for classes other than DK?".

The answer isn't making the DK weak like other classes. Its making other classes strong like the DK.

@DirtyDeeds765

This mindset always makes me laugh.

One class is overpowered so we need to rebalance the ENTIRE GAME rather than just address the one problem class. Glad you're not my boss.

Except some of the classes do need a full rebalance, nothing that was said was wrong. A lot of it is fundamentally broken, and none of which has to do with DK. Sorcerer can't go toe to toe with a DK without procs to carry them because they don't have a defensive bar outside of shields. Shields are cool and good, but not all sorcs run shields, without shields and procs what is a sorc's defensive bar?

Necromancers can't burst a dk because they are missing a lot of damage and a stun in their toolkit, their class spammable sucks, they have non existent dots to utilize their dot passives, summons are very stupid and skeletal mage has poor damage. Class stuns are nonexistent. They STILL don't have sorcery/brutality and are forced to either use potions, degeration, or rally/momentum to have any decent damage. They're severely lacking in offensive capability, same with sorc they have to be carried by procs.

Templars lacking a lot of damage, backlash is gimped, all of their potential dots are gimped. Solar barrage isn't good anymore since empower was removed and dots got nerfed. Sun fire has always been a pretty meh dot. Burning light damage is dead. Backlash is severely gimped too. The only working damage they have is radiant oppression and crescent sweep. Their entire offensive kit needs a full rework.


It's a legitimate argument to make, the balancing in this game is severely bad. There's a lot of balancing arguments to be made. Don't get me wrong, I do believe DK is a strong class, but the weak classes can never compare because they don't even have complete toolkits. So it's not crazy to say that the weak classes need full reworks.

Now if you're a proc user who uses two 5 piece proc sets and a proc monster set, this probably doesn't apply to you, but some people like to play to the classes strengths, but the weak classes barely have strengths to begin with outside of being a support buff bot.

Iriidius

DK received heavy nerfs in update 34,35,37 and 38 after getting buffed in update 31,32 and 33.
In update 31 they made corrosive armor hybrid(dk still bad).
In update 32 they buffed combustion and battleroar passive, made lava whip dmg hybrid(one update earlier than everything else), buffed/changed flame lash a bit(but everyone uses molten whip) and buffed cinder storm(now dk sustain a bit better and dk became meta).
In update 33 they buffed/changed burning embers and changed molten whip flame damage buff scaling and explosive armor dot scaling.
In update 34 they nerfed combustion passive, molten whip flame damage buff and burning embers healing(all worse than before buffs now).
In update 35 they reduced buffed molten dmg from 200% to 160% and nerfed the dk dots.
In update 37 they removed stam return by cinder storm, but players ignore this and say dk got buffed because they got major berserk on unused chains for short 4 seconds. This skill is not in a normal dks toolkit and there is no free skillslot to equip it. Already have multiple other skills i would rather equip but cant because of missing skillslots(cinder storm, burning embers/inhale, talons), to get full uptime i would have to spam chains every 4 seconds, this would result in lower dmg.
In update 38 every class gets 5m skills increased to 7m except dk who already had 7m range. DK looses advantage of meele skills hitting more reliable.

I really wonder that this class is still stronger than in update 26-30 when it was garbage.
NB and Warden are as strong as dks atm.
templar, sorcerer and necromancer should be buffed to dk, nb and warden tier because their bad performance is the result of direct and indirect nerf.
Templar was on same level as dk before they nerfed jabs and backlash, now they want buff their defense insteat of reverting nerfs.
Stamsorc with Bow was even stronger than dk and templar in u34. I still rather fight a good dk or warden than a stamsorc.
Magsorc was very strong in the past but nerfed indirectly from max magicka nerf. In 2018 people stacking stamina and magicka and sets like shacklebreaker, draugr hulk, bone pirate, alfiq, necropotenz, bright throath were meta, In 2020 most player at least had 30k stat pool, stat food and 64 points in stamina, nowadays players play 30-45k hp, 17-24k stam/mag, 64 attribute points in health and orzogas/juwels of misrule buff food. Zos removed percent stat increase from cp and class and gave flat stats insteat, not only making stat stacking less effective but also removing the need to do it.
Necro was still meta after u28 nerfs, wasnt nerfed and stayed good class until recentl nerfs to spirit mender and graverobber.
One reason for tank meta is also that ZoS nerfed offensive skills and buffed defensive skills most of the time.