Update 38 Warden

ESO_Nightingale

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Lancer1602 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, I'm back for my quarterly post.

Changes

Warden

Scorch: Fixed an issue with this ability and its morphs where they could fail to hit larger monsters in some cases.

Arctic Blast:
The stun from this morph now fires after a 2 second delay, rather than immediately. Recasting the ability before the delay completes will reset the delay timer.
Fixed an issue where the stun ignored line of sight rules.

Seeing an Arctic Blast stun application timing nerf is a bit confusing, would've liked to see a note on this since this'll make using our main stun more annoying, but at least it's not like it's back to stunning after 3 or 5 seconds so it should still be usable.

Scorch may finally hit tideborn taleria now which is a godsend.

not really a lot to say for these patch notes, a lot of ZOS's time has been spent on Arcanist so i wasn't expecting too much, but it definitely would've been nice to see a resource sustain buff or a Frozen Retreat rework which would be really nice now that Arcanist has Apocryphal Gate.

Thank you for trying. I am impressed with the amount of hope you have. I gave up - I feel like they just forgot about warden and think it`s a Healer - maybe a tank sometimes - but never a DPS character.

Well I think it needs to be tested first.

Yes, Wardens lost an on demand stun. It took a long, long time to get that to be added to the class after countless feedback.

However, they now have a guaranteed delayed stun you can setup burst with.

The problem with an on demand stun that doesn't have decent burst damage to it is giving the oponent free CC immunity. You need to rely on other sources like Scorch to do the work and it simply doesn't have enough damage anymore.

With the new change (in theory), you could do something like - Scorch (3s delay) - Arctic Blast (2s delay) - Spammable - Ultimate and now you have an ult, stun and scorch hitting at the same time where as before, it would only be Scorch.

If they were going to do this, they should of gave an on demand stun somewhere else.

Dizzying swing🤣

are you suggesting we use dizzy swing?

That's actually what my warden is using currently.
But everything else are mag skills like Deep fissure.
Im impressed how well she sustains. The 10% mag skill cost reduction of armour of the seducer works well even with only 10 attribute points into mag.

can't use dizzy swing on a frostden now can we? XD

It seems me that in alot of cases Hybridization is not only now possible but it's better than pure mag or stam.

It allows you to fill in the gaps that some classes have. Warden doesn't seem to have a good spammable.

I have a mageblade and a stamblade.
Nightblade seems to have the skills to be pure mag or stam.

Dizzy only stuns when they’re off balance and off balance has a cool down that’s longer than CC immunity making it unreliable as a main stun.

Dawn Breaker of smiting stuns too.

Didn't even notice that about Dizzy. Usually i'm so up close with a horde of people it's hard to know who even stunned the enemy or if the enemy already has CC immunity, which RAT would certainly give them regardless.

I can't test the new Arctic blast since I'm on Console.
But what's the point in using a staff(ranged) if you have to be in melee range to stun with Arctic blast? Might as well just use dual wield that has better passives.

Anybody try the new Arctic blast on PTS?
Wouldn't it make sense to pre-emptively use Deep fissure, then Arctic blast, then when you get to the enemy the stun, deep fissure should hit at the same time? Then follow up with spammable/execute.
I debated using DW with shrouded daggers/Whirling blades, but I'm already using that on my stamsorc and didn't want to do the same thing.
Also 2/hander skills are significantly cheaper. Heck maybe you could use Bow if you wanted to stay ranged.

If I didn't have dark deal on sorc I think I would've needed a major stam sustain set.

I've always been such a resource hog that now being able to use both resources for attacks is a godsend.

i tried it on pts and it feels awful. there's literally a reason why we begged for an instant stun and it's this.

LittlePinkDot

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Lancer1602 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, I'm back for my quarterly post.

Changes

Warden

Scorch: Fixed an issue with this ability and its morphs where they could fail to hit larger monsters in some cases.

Arctic Blast:
The stun from this morph now fires after a 2 second delay, rather than immediately. Recasting the ability before the delay completes will reset the delay timer.
Fixed an issue where the stun ignored line of sight rules.

Seeing an Arctic Blast stun application timing nerf is a bit confusing, would've liked to see a note on this since this'll make using our main stun more annoying, but at least it's not like it's back to stunning after 3 or 5 seconds so it should still be usable.

Scorch may finally hit tideborn taleria now which is a godsend.

not really a lot to say for these patch notes, a lot of ZOS's time has been spent on Arcanist so i wasn't expecting too much, but it definitely would've been nice to see a resource sustain buff or a Frozen Retreat rework which would be really nice now that Arcanist has Apocryphal Gate.

Thank you for trying. I am impressed with the amount of hope you have. I gave up - I feel like they just forgot about warden and think it`s a Healer - maybe a tank sometimes - but never a DPS character.

Well I think it needs to be tested first.

Yes, Wardens lost an on demand stun. It took a long, long time to get that to be added to the class after countless feedback.

However, they now have a guaranteed delayed stun you can setup burst with.

The problem with an on demand stun that doesn't have decent burst damage to it is giving the oponent free CC immunity. You need to rely on other sources like Scorch to do the work and it simply doesn't have enough damage anymore.

With the new change (in theory), you could do something like - Scorch (3s delay) - Arctic Blast (2s delay) - Spammable - Ultimate and now you have an ult, stun and scorch hitting at the same time where as before, it would only be Scorch.

If they were going to do this, they should of gave an on demand stun somewhere else.

Dizzying swing🤣

are you suggesting we use dizzy swing?

That's actually what my warden is using currently.
But everything else are mag skills like Deep fissure.
Im impressed how well she sustains. The 10% mag skill cost reduction of armour of the seducer works well even with only 10 attribute points into mag.

can't use dizzy swing on a frostden now can we? XD

It seems me that in alot of cases Hybridization is not only now possible but it's better than pure mag or stam.

It allows you to fill in the gaps that some classes have. Warden doesn't seem to have a good spammable.

I have a mageblade and a stamblade.
Nightblade seems to have the skills to be pure mag or stam.

Dizzy only stuns when they’re off balance and off balance has a cool down that’s longer than CC immunity making it unreliable as a main stun.

Dawn Breaker of smiting stuns too.

Didn't even notice that about Dizzy. Usually i'm so up close with a horde of people it's hard to know who even stunned the enemy or if the enemy already has CC immunity, which RAT would certainly give them regardless.

I can't test the new Arctic blast since I'm on Console.
But what's the point in using a staff(ranged) if you have to be in melee range to stun with Arctic blast? Might as well just use dual wield that has better passives.

Anybody try the new Arctic blast on PTS?
Wouldn't it make sense to pre-emptively use Deep fissure, then Arctic blast, then when you get to the enemy the stun, deep fissure should hit at the same time? Then follow up with spammable/execute.
I debated using DW with shrouded daggers/Whirling blades, but I'm already using that on my stamsorc and didn't want to do the same thing.
Also 2/hander skills are significantly cheaper. Heck maybe you could use Bow if you wanted to stay ranged.

If I didn't have dark deal on sorc I think I would've needed a major stam sustain set.

I've always been such a resource hog that now being able to use both resources for attacks is a godsend.

i tried it on pts and it feels awful. there's literally a reason why we begged for an instant stun and it's this.

Ahh that sucks.
Should I switch to polar wind?
I'm new to Warden, I haven't tried polar wind. I wonder how much better the heal is.

In fact if I'm not using it as a stun, I can then put it on the back bar and have executioner in its former place on the front bar.
I would lose a stun but gain an execute

Necrotech_Master

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Lancer1602 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, I'm back for my quarterly post.

Changes

Warden

Scorch: Fixed an issue with this ability and its morphs where they could fail to hit larger monsters in some cases.

Arctic Blast:
The stun from this morph now fires after a 2 second delay, rather than immediately. Recasting the ability before the delay completes will reset the delay timer.
Fixed an issue where the stun ignored line of sight rules.

Seeing an Arctic Blast stun application timing nerf is a bit confusing, would've liked to see a note on this since this'll make using our main stun more annoying, but at least it's not like it's back to stunning after 3 or 5 seconds so it should still be usable.

Scorch may finally hit tideborn taleria now which is a godsend.

not really a lot to say for these patch notes, a lot of ZOS's time has been spent on Arcanist so i wasn't expecting too much, but it definitely would've been nice to see a resource sustain buff or a Frozen Retreat rework which would be really nice now that Arcanist has Apocryphal Gate.

Thank you for trying. I am impressed with the amount of hope you have. I gave up - I feel like they just forgot about warden and think it`s a Healer - maybe a tank sometimes - but never a DPS character.

Well I think it needs to be tested first.

Yes, Wardens lost an on demand stun. It took a long, long time to get that to be added to the class after countless feedback.

However, they now have a guaranteed delayed stun you can setup burst with.

The problem with an on demand stun that doesn't have decent burst damage to it is giving the oponent free CC immunity. You need to rely on other sources like Scorch to do the work and it simply doesn't have enough damage anymore.

With the new change (in theory), you could do something like - Scorch (3s delay) - Arctic Blast (2s delay) - Spammable - Ultimate and now you have an ult, stun and scorch hitting at the same time where as before, it would only be Scorch.

If they were going to do this, they should of gave an on demand stun somewhere else.

Dizzying swing🤣

are you suggesting we use dizzy swing?

That's actually what my warden is using currently.
But everything else are mag skills like Deep fissure.
Im impressed how well she sustains. The 10% mag skill cost reduction of armour of the seducer works well even with only 10 attribute points into mag.

can't use dizzy swing on a frostden now can we? XD

It seems me that in alot of cases Hybridization is not only now possible but it's better than pure mag or stam.

It allows you to fill in the gaps that some classes have. Warden doesn't seem to have a good spammable.

I have a mageblade and a stamblade.
Nightblade seems to have the skills to be pure mag or stam.

Dizzy only stuns when they’re off balance and off balance has a cool down that’s longer than CC immunity making it unreliable as a main stun.

Dawn Breaker of smiting stuns too.

Didn't even notice that about Dizzy. Usually i'm so up close with a horde of people it's hard to know who even stunned the enemy or if the enemy already has CC immunity, which RAT would certainly give them regardless.

I can't test the new Arctic blast since I'm on Console.
But what's the point in using a staff(ranged) if you have to be in melee range to stun with Arctic blast? Might as well just use dual wield that has better passives.

Anybody try the new Arctic blast on PTS?
Wouldn't it make sense to pre-emptively use Deep fissure, then Arctic blast, then when you get to the enemy the stun, deep fissure should hit at the same time? Then follow up with spammable/execute.
I debated using DW with shrouded daggers/Whirling blades, but I'm already using that on my stamsorc and didn't want to do the same thing.
Also 2/hander skills are significantly cheaper. Heck maybe you could use Bow if you wanted to stay ranged.

If I didn't have dark deal on sorc I think I would've needed a major stam sustain set.

I've always been such a resource hog that now being able to use both resources for attacks is a godsend.

some clarification here, RAT is not CC immunity, its only immunity to immobilize/snare (not hard cc like stun/fear)

ESO_Nightingale

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Lancer1602 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, I'm back for my quarterly post.

Changes

Warden

Scorch: Fixed an issue with this ability and its morphs where they could fail to hit larger monsters in some cases.

Arctic Blast:
The stun from this morph now fires after a 2 second delay, rather than immediately. Recasting the ability before the delay completes will reset the delay timer.
Fixed an issue where the stun ignored line of sight rules.

Seeing an Arctic Blast stun application timing nerf is a bit confusing, would've liked to see a note on this since this'll make using our main stun more annoying, but at least it's not like it's back to stunning after 3 or 5 seconds so it should still be usable.

Scorch may finally hit tideborn taleria now which is a godsend.

not really a lot to say for these patch notes, a lot of ZOS's time has been spent on Arcanist so i wasn't expecting too much, but it definitely would've been nice to see a resource sustain buff or a Frozen Retreat rework which would be really nice now that Arcanist has Apocryphal Gate.

Thank you for trying. I am impressed with the amount of hope you have. I gave up - I feel like they just forgot about warden and think it`s a Healer - maybe a tank sometimes - but never a DPS character.

Well I think it needs to be tested first.

Yes, Wardens lost an on demand stun. It took a long, long time to get that to be added to the class after countless feedback.

However, they now have a guaranteed delayed stun you can setup burst with.

The problem with an on demand stun that doesn't have decent burst damage to it is giving the oponent free CC immunity. You need to rely on other sources like Scorch to do the work and it simply doesn't have enough damage anymore.

With the new change (in theory), you could do something like - Scorch (3s delay) - Arctic Blast (2s delay) - Spammable - Ultimate and now you have an ult, stun and scorch hitting at the same time where as before, it would only be Scorch.

If they were going to do this, they should of gave an on demand stun somewhere else.

Dizzying swing🤣

are you suggesting we use dizzy swing?

That's actually what my warden is using currently.
But everything else are mag skills like Deep fissure.
Im impressed how well she sustains. The 10% mag skill cost reduction of armour of the seducer works well even with only 10 attribute points into mag.

can't use dizzy swing on a frostden now can we? XD

It seems me that in alot of cases Hybridization is not only now possible but it's better than pure mag or stam.

It allows you to fill in the gaps that some classes have. Warden doesn't seem to have a good spammable.

I have a mageblade and a stamblade.
Nightblade seems to have the skills to be pure mag or stam.

Dizzy only stuns when they’re off balance and off balance has a cool down that’s longer than CC immunity making it unreliable as a main stun.

Dawn Breaker of smiting stuns too.

Didn't even notice that about Dizzy. Usually i'm so up close with a horde of people it's hard to know who even stunned the enemy or if the enemy already has CC immunity, which RAT would certainly give them regardless.

I can't test the new Arctic blast since I'm on Console.
But what's the point in using a staff(ranged) if you have to be in melee range to stun with Arctic blast? Might as well just use dual wield that has better passives.

Anybody try the new Arctic blast on PTS?
Wouldn't it make sense to pre-emptively use Deep fissure, then Arctic blast, then when you get to the enemy the stun, deep fissure should hit at the same time? Then follow up with spammable/execute.
I debated using DW with shrouded daggers/Whirling blades, but I'm already using that on my stamsorc and didn't want to do the same thing.
Also 2/hander skills are significantly cheaper. Heck maybe you could use Bow if you wanted to stay ranged.

If I didn't have dark deal on sorc I think I would've needed a major stam sustain set.

I've always been such a resource hog that now being able to use both resources for attacks is a godsend.

i tried it on pts and it feels awful. there's literally a reason why we begged for an instant stun and it's this.

Ahh that sucks.
Should I switch to polar wind?
I'm new to Warden, I haven't tried polar wind. I wonder how much better the heal is.

In fact if I'm not using it as a stun, I can then put it on the back bar and have executioner in its former place on the front bar.
I would lose a stun but gain an execute

If you want an instant stun you'll need to use magnum shot or something.

Darkstorne

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Warden gets 12% flat damage for holding an ice staff making it best in slot.

Probably still my biggest gripe with the class, as someone who loved ESO for the build customization. Winter's Revenge (our main class frost damage skill) also gets a ludicrous 30% damage boost if you have a destro staff equipped, which just means you're objectively playing the class wrong if you equip any other weapon, and that's clearly a terrible place for the game design to be, running completely counter to the combat "deep dive" letter they posted a while back in the hopes of quashing the demands for that promised Q&A.

It's okay. I just don't really play ESO much at all these days. I check back in for the patch notes, have a sensible chuckle when I see the Telvanni Peninsula that's objectively not even the Telvanni Peninsula is getting a whopping TWO delves across its entire landmass, and I realize that WoW and GW2 are now objectively better at rewarding overland exploration than an Elder Scrolls MMO is.

I'll check back for the next PTS round to see if they've at least fixed Warden's glaring issues. But probably won't be remotely interested in playing the game until the next January Chapter reveal. It's ESO's 10th anniversary next year, so if that Chapter is equally as phoned in as Necrom then I think that's the sign this game is over for me. I'm currently living on hopium that this year is so underwhelming and relying so much on asset re-use to give the team a big head-start on a huge Chapter for next year.

ESO_Nightingale

Darkstorne wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Warden gets 12% flat damage for holding an ice staff making it best in slot.

Probably still my biggest gripe with the class, as someone who loved ESO for the build customization. Winter's Revenge (our main class frost damage skill) also gets a ludicrous 30% damage boost if you have a destro staff equipped, which just means you're objectively playing the class wrong if you equip any other weapon, and that's clearly a terrible place for the game design to be, running completely counter to the combat "deep dive" letter they posted a while back in the hopes of quashing the demands for that promised Q&A.

It's okay. I just don't really play ESO much at all these days. I check back in for the patch notes, have a sensible chuckle when I see the Telvanni Peninsula that's objectively not even the Telvanni Peninsula is getting a whopping TWO delves across its entire landmass, and I realize that WoW and GW2 are now objectively better at rewarding overland exploration than an Elder Scrolls MMO is.

I'll check back for the next PTS round to see if they've at least fixed Warden's glaring issues. But probably won't be remotely interested in playing the game until the next January Chapter reveal. It's ESO's 10th anniversary next year, so if that Chapter is equally as phoned in as Necrom then I think that's the sign this game is over for me. I'm currently living on hopium that this year is so underwhelming and relying so much on asset re-use to give the team a big head-start on a huge Chapter for next year.

fair point, we're gonna have to fight this damn arctic blast change. i understand wanting to leave the game more than you realise.

Lancer1602

Darkstorne wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Warden gets 12% flat damage for holding an ice staff making it best in slot.

Probably still my biggest gripe with the class, as someone who loved ESO for the build customization. Winter's Revenge (our main class frost damage skill) also gets a ludicrous 30% damage boost if you have a destro staff equipped, which just means you're objectively playing the class wrong if you equip any other weapon, and that's clearly a terrible place for the game design to be, running completely counter to the combat "deep dive" letter they posted a while back in the hopes of quashing the demands for that promised Q&A.

It's okay. I just don't really play ESO much at all these days. I check back in for the patch notes, have a sensible chuckle when I see the Telvanni Peninsula that's objectively not even the Telvanni Peninsula is getting a whopping TWO delves across its entire landmass, and I realize that WoW and GW2 are now objectively better at rewarding overland exploration than an Elder Scrolls MMO is.

I'll check back for the next PTS round to see if they've at least fixed Warden's glaring issues. But probably won't be remotely interested in playing the game until the next January Chapter reveal. It's ESO's 10th anniversary next year, so if that Chapter is equally as phoned in as Necrom then I think that's the sign this game is over for me. I'm currently living on hopium that this year is so underwhelming and relying so much on asset re-use to give the team a big head-start on a huge Chapter for next year.

dont forget the shalks nerf and the awful change of Advanced Species passive. I`ve burned out and ran out of hopium. Don`t expect them to fix or improve the game in any aspect - so I`ve just accepted the fact that good times are over and it`s time to move on.

Nser

Honestly im inbetween on the Arctic thing since i prefer delayed stuns, but i can also see the benefits of the insta stun.

The main two things i see the insta stun being used for right now is getting ppl off of you, and perhaps ice comet then insta stun arctic.
However meteor having a 1s delay, and arctic having 2s, i still think this "combo" can be pulled off. First Arctic then meteor and the stun should happen as the meteor falls. Havent tested this yet tho.
Stunning people while you heal yourself is great ofcourse so they cant continue to spam direct damage and are forced to break, but thats also why arctic is yet again under debate. Burst heal + stun is very powerfull.

Personally i like a delayed stun better and 2s delay seems about right. Surely better than having to land 3 ticks like before.

LukosCreyden

Wait, people still have hopium left?

I drained all mine when they killed my beloved Necro and I tried finding another class to play. I got onto Warden and joined the frost discord even, but there is just something about the class that doesn't sit right with me. Think its the weird lack of visual identity. Or at least, confused identity.

GetAgrippa

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

Necrotech_Master

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

what is ironic honestly is that the 2 classes with the "biggest" identity crisis and arguably weakest state are both "dlc classes" that were added later (necromancer and warden)

i hope a few years down the road the arcanist doesnt suffer the same fate

ESO_Nightingale

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

class changes are fine imo, i look forward to ones that improve skills that don't perform well. reworks, buffs and stuff are always fun. but when it's going back on the instant stun we literally begged for that's where the whiplash just makes me frustrated.

ESO_Nightingale

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

what is ironic honestly is that the 2 classes with the "biggest" identity crisis and arguably weakest state are both "dlc classes" that were added later (necromancer and warden)

i hope a few years down the road the arcanist doesnt suffer the same fate

it depends on what you mean by an identity crisis tbh. people argue that because we can actually make a viable frost damage build we have more class identity than other classes. however our skill situation is rough at the moment since the shalks nerf.

Necrotech_Master

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

what is ironic honestly is that the 2 classes with the "biggest" identity crisis and arguably weakest state are both "dlc classes" that were added later (necromancer and warden)

i hope a few years down the road the arcanist doesnt suffer the same fate

it depends on what you mean by an identity crisis tbh. people argue that because we can actually make a viable frost damage build we have more class identity than other classes. however our skill situation is rough at the moment since the shalks nerf.

i think thats more of what i meant "overall balance" instead of identity crisis

warden at least has some synergy between its own class skills and passives (disregarding the obvious ice staff focus), while necromancer has almost no cohesion between its skills and passives

both also suffer from "slow" feeling skills (birds on warden, skulls on necro) that dont lend to weaving well and just dont feel good to use

ESO_Nightingale

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

what is ironic honestly is that the 2 classes with the "biggest" identity crisis and arguably weakest state are both "dlc classes" that were added later (necromancer and warden)

i hope a few years down the road the arcanist doesnt suffer the same fate

it depends on what you mean by an identity crisis tbh. people argue that because we can actually make a viable frost damage build we have more class identity than other classes. however our skill situation is rough at the moment since the shalks nerf.

i think thats more of what i meant "overall balance" instead of identity crisis

warden at least has some synergy between its own class skills and passives (disregarding the obvious ice staff focus), while necromancer has almost no cohesion between its skills and passives

both also suffer from "slow" feeling skills (birds on warden, skulls on necro) that dont lend to weaving well and just dont feel good to use

i talked about this before but i still find it utterly confusing with the shalks changes, they want it to be less about buff management and yet the only other ability we have to press is our spammable. we don't have an inbuilt class execute which would seriously help. and obviously bear does not count since it's ai is about as smart and responsive as a brick.

Necrotech_Master

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

what is ironic honestly is that the 2 classes with the "biggest" identity crisis and arguably weakest state are both "dlc classes" that were added later (necromancer and warden)

i hope a few years down the road the arcanist doesnt suffer the same fate

it depends on what you mean by an identity crisis tbh. people argue that because we can actually make a viable frost damage build we have more class identity than other classes. however our skill situation is rough at the moment since the shalks nerf.

i think thats more of what i meant "overall balance" instead of identity crisis

warden at least has some synergy between its own class skills and passives (disregarding the obvious ice staff focus), while necromancer has almost no cohesion between its skills and passives

both also suffer from "slow" feeling skills (birds on warden, skulls on necro) that dont lend to weaving well and just dont feel good to use

i talked about this before but i still find it utterly confusing with the shalks changes, they want it to be less about buff management and yet the only other ability we have to press is our spammable. we don't have an inbuilt class execute which would seriously help. and obviously bear does not count since it's ai is about as smart and responsive as a brick.

yeah i was not a fan of the shalks change either because the toon i was using that on was kind of doing a heavy attack weave with it, which worked fine for the 3 sec timer (1 heavy attack + 1 skill per shalk trigger)

out of habit i still end up recasting that early, but i didnt want to drop shalk completely because it is still one of the higher dmg skills and does work well with a heavy weave

the bear i havent found to be too bad on the execute, but it is certainly not spammable because it requires ultimate to use, so i wouldnt count it as "on demand" either, but can be good with the right timing

ESO_Nightingale

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

what is ironic honestly is that the 2 classes with the "biggest" identity crisis and arguably weakest state are both "dlc classes" that were added later (necromancer and warden)

i hope a few years down the road the arcanist doesnt suffer the same fate

it depends on what you mean by an identity crisis tbh. people argue that because we can actually make a viable frost damage build we have more class identity than other classes. however our skill situation is rough at the moment since the shalks nerf.

i think thats more of what i meant "overall balance" instead of identity crisis

warden at least has some synergy between its own class skills and passives (disregarding the obvious ice staff focus), while necromancer has almost no cohesion between its skills and passives

both also suffer from "slow" feeling skills (birds on warden, skulls on necro) that dont lend to weaving well and just dont feel good to use

i talked about this before but i still find it utterly confusing with the shalks changes, they want it to be less about buff management and yet the only other ability we have to press is our spammable. we don't have an inbuilt class execute which would seriously help. and obviously bear does not count since it's ai is about as smart and responsive as a brick.

yeah i was not a fan of the shalks change either because the toon i was using that on was kind of doing a heavy attack weave with it, which worked fine for the 3 sec timer (1 heavy attack + 1 skill per shalk trigger)

out of habit i still end up recasting that early, but i didnt want to drop shalk completely because it is still one of the higher dmg skills and does work well with a heavy weave

the bear i havent found to be too bad on the execute, but it is certainly not spammable because it requires ultimate to use, so i wouldnt count it as "on demand" either, but can be good with the right timing

it's damage isn't bad, it's AI is. also because it requires 2 ultimate slots, you can't take a healing ultimate or northern storm. it's just frustrating to use, and it can also be killed which is not what you want as your final combo piece for a killing blow.

taugrim

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Arctic Blast:
The stun from this morph now fires after a 2 second delay, rather than immediately. Recasting the ability before the delay completes will reset the delay timer.
Fixed an issue where the stun ignored line of sight rules.[/spoiler]

Seeing an Arctic Blast stun application timing nerf is both frustrating and confusing.

Can we please have a developer comment on why you guys felt the need to remove the instant stun on arctic blast we begged for for years? If you feel the skill is overperforming...<snip>

Before making suggestions, we should understand the intent first.

I think Arctic Blast should be left as-is. A delayed stun has far less utility, in practice.

People talk about being able to stack burst, but we already have that. A lot can happen in 2s: your targets make move in opposite directions, making follow-up AOE far less effective, etc.

ESO_Nightingale

taugrim wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Arctic Blast:
The stun from this morph now fires after a 2 second delay, rather than immediately. Recasting the ability before the delay completes will reset the delay timer.
Fixed an issue where the stun ignored line of sight rules.[/spoiler]

Seeing an Arctic Blast stun application timing nerf is both frustrating and confusing.

Can we please have a developer comment on why you guys felt the need to remove the instant stun on arctic blast we begged for for years? If you feel the skill is overperforming...<snip>

Before making suggestions, we should understand the intent first.

I think Arctic Blast should be left as-is. A delayed stun has far less utility, in practice.

People talk about being able to stack burst, but we already have that. A lot can happen in 2s: your targets make move in opposite directions, making follow-up AOE far less effective, etc.

While a delayed stun isn't necessarily bad, arctic is so hard to hit with it's radius that making it delayed just doesn't work.

ESO_Nightingale

taugrim wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Arctic Blast:
The stun from this morph now fires after a 2 second delay, rather than immediately. Recasting the ability before the delay completes will reset the delay timer.
Fixed an issue where the stun ignored line of sight rules.[/spoiler]

Seeing an Arctic Blast stun application timing nerf is both frustrating and confusing.

Can we please have a developer comment on why you guys felt the need to remove the instant stun on arctic blast we begged for for years? If you feel the skill is overperforming...<snip>

Before making suggestions, we should understand the intent first.

I think Arctic Blast should be left as-is. A delayed stun has far less utility, in practice.

People talk about being able to stack burst, but we already have that. A lot can happen in 2s: your targets make move in opposite directions, making follow-up AOE far less effective, etc.

if i'm being honest i would've liked it more if they added growing swarm's effect to the base skill and then renamed growing swarm to overwhelming swarm, stunning the target for 3s after maybe 2 or 4 seconds. that way you'd have a more meaningful morph choice for pvp or pve in addition to keeping the instant, but melee range stun on blast.

SEINTDARKNES

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

what is ironic honestly is that the 2 classes with the "biggest" identity crisis and arguably weakest state are both "dlc classes" that were added later (necromancer and warden)

i hope a few years down the road the arcanist doesnt suffer the same fate

it depends on what you mean by an identity crisis tbh. people argue that because we can actually make a viable frost damage build we have more class identity than other classes. however our skill situation is rough at the moment since the shalks nerf.

i think thats more of what i meant "overall balance" instead of identity crisis

warden at least has some synergy between its own class skills and passives (disregarding the obvious ice staff focus), while necromancer has almost no cohesion between its skills and passives

both also suffer from "slow" feeling skills (birds on warden, skulls on necro) that dont lend to weaving well and just dont feel good to use

i talked about this before but i still find it utterly confusing with the shalks changes, they want it to be less about buff management and yet the only other ability we have to press is our spammable. we don't have an inbuilt class execute which would seriously help. and obviously bear does not count since it's ai is about as smart and responsive as a brick.

yeah i was not a fan of the shalks change either because the toon i was using that on was kind of doing a heavy attack weave with it, which worked fine for the 3 sec timer (1 heavy attack + 1 skill per shalk trigger)

out of habit i still end up recasting that early, but i didnt want to drop shalk completely because it is still one of the higher dmg skills and does work well with a heavy weave

the bear i havent found to be too bad on the execute, but it is certainly not spammable because it requires ultimate to use, so i wouldnt count it as "on demand" either, but can be good with the right timing

it's damage isn't bad, it's AI is. also because it requires 2 ultimate slots, you can't take a healing ultimate or northern storm. it's just frustrating to use, and it can also be killed which is not what you want as your final combo piece for a killing blow.

And don't forget if the bear dies you have to cast that looooong animation to summon your bear meantime you are not doing damage with light attacks nor skills making your damage close to 0

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

I don't know why Zos can't just leave wardens be. The whiplash on this class is so exhausting. It used to be my favorite class but now every 6 months the class changes. Just stop already Zos.

what is ironic honestly is that the 2 classes with the "biggest" identity crisis and arguably weakest state are both "dlc classes" that were added later (necromancer and warden)

i hope a few years down the road the arcanist doesnt suffer the same fate

it depends on what you mean by an identity crisis tbh. people argue that because we can actually make a viable frost damage build we have more class identity than other classes. however our skill situation is rough at the moment since the shalks nerf.

i think thats more of what i meant "overall balance" instead of identity crisis

warden at least has some synergy between its own class skills and passives (disregarding the obvious ice staff focus), while necromancer has almost no cohesion between its skills and passives

both also suffer from "slow" feeling skills (birds on warden, skulls on necro) that dont lend to weaving well and just dont feel good to use

i talked about this before but i still find it utterly confusing with the shalks changes, they want it to be less about buff management and yet the only other ability we have to press is our spammable. we don't have an inbuilt class execute which would seriously help. and obviously bear does not count since it's ai is about as smart and responsive as a brick.

yeah i was not a fan of the shalks change either because the toon i was using that on was kind of doing a heavy attack weave with it, which worked fine for the 3 sec timer (1 heavy attack + 1 skill per shalk trigger)

out of habit i still end up recasting that early, but i didnt want to drop shalk completely because it is still one of the higher dmg skills and does work well with a heavy weave

the bear i havent found to be too bad on the execute, but it is certainly not spammable because it requires ultimate to use, so i wouldnt count it as "on demand" either, but can be good with the right timing

it's damage isn't bad, it's AI is. also because it requires 2 ultimate slots, you can't take a healing ultimate or northern storm. it's just frustrating to use, and it can also be killed which is not what you want as your final combo piece for a killing blow.

And don't forget if the bear dies you have to cast that looooong animation to summon your bear meantime you are not doing damage with light attacks nor skills making your damage close to 0

Sorc pets take 1 less second to cast which is so long in pvp

ESO_Nightingale

I want to make a seperate post about forgotten morphs and frozen retreat. brought it up a couple of times but i want to compare frozen retreat to chains of devastation and talk about our lesser used morphs that could be reworked to be great skills.

Dalsinthus

I genuinely miss the days when my archer stam warden build felt like it really fit with the class and could preform well. The passives requiring use of the ice staff make it feel like I'm playing the class wrong.

As an example, just look at Skinnycheeks excellent build guides (http://skinnycheeks.gg). There are comprehensive DPS builds for every class and setup, including stam and magicka focused builds, except warden. Warden is just presented as an ice staff build or an outdated bleed build. Feels really bad.

I'm glad that ice damage is effective now, but there should be other ways to play this class.

ESO_Nightingale

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I genuinely miss the days when my archer stam warden build felt like it really fit with the class and could preform well. The passives requiring use of the ice staff make it feel like I'm playing the class wrong.

As an example, just look at Skinnycheeks excellent build guides (http://skinnycheeks.gg). There are comprehensive DPS builds for every class and setup, including stam and magicka focused builds, except warden. Warden is just presented as an ice staff build or an outdated bleed build. Feels really bad.

I'm glad that ice damage is effective now, but there should be other ways to play this class.

They should raise the minimum damage bonus of piercing cold to 4% and remove the winters revenge destruction staff stipulation which just feels wrong.

Dalsinthus

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I genuinely miss the days when my archer stam warden build felt like it really fit with the class and could preform well. The passives requiring use of the ice staff make it feel like I'm playing the class wrong.

As an example, just look at Skinnycheeks excellent build guides (http://skinnycheeks.gg). There are comprehensive DPS builds for every class and setup, including stam and magicka focused builds, except warden. Warden is just presented as an ice staff build or an outdated bleed build. Feels really bad.

I'm glad that ice damage is effective now, but there should be other ways to play this class.

They should raise the minimum damage bonus of piercing cold to 4% and remove the winters revenge destruction staff stipulation which just feels wrong.

That would be a great solution.

I added winters revenge when hybridization became a thing, only to remove it a patch or two later when you needed a destro staff to actually have it do competitive damage with other class AoE skills. There's no way to justify the magicka cost on a stam focused build with how little damage it does. In my testing, caltrops, shadow silk, orbs, and many other skills outperform it.

ESO_Nightingale

Dalsinthus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

I genuinely miss the days when my archer stam warden build felt like it really fit with the class and could preform well. The passives requiring use of the ice staff make it feel like I'm playing the class wrong.

As an example, just look at Skinnycheeks excellent build guides (http://skinnycheeks.gg). There are comprehensive DPS builds for every class and setup, including stam and magicka focused builds, except warden. Warden is just presented as an ice staff build or an outdated bleed build. Feels really bad.

I'm glad that ice damage is effective now, but there should be other ways to play this class.

They should raise the minimum damage bonus of piercing cold to 4% and remove the winters revenge destruction staff stipulation which just feels wrong.

That would be a great solution.

I added winters revenge when hybridization became a thing, only to remove it a patch or two later when you needed a destro staff to actually have it do competitive damage with other class AoE skills. There's no way to justify the magicka cost on a stam focused build with how little damage it does. In my testing, caltrops, shadow silk, orbs, and many other skills outperform it.

there's other ways winter's revenge could be unique like for example, maybe it does more damage when you stand in it, maybe it scales up in damage based on enemy hp as a smaller damage over time execute. maybe it explodes at the end or something.

ramdrop

I'm a Warden main and every PTS cycle I read your posts @ESO_Nightingale and can relate to it all as well as the other Warden's here.

I chose a magden because I wanted to use a staff and could play at range. When hybridization first came in and the meta started with DW I kept my staves because I don't see why a magic focused character should wield swords, it just looks weird.

Update 35 happened and this was a bad time for our beloved class, damage went right down and I was on the verge of taking a break. It's got better as the patches have gone on but there are still a few things that need to change - by reverting Arctic Blast to a delayed stun is a stepback in my opinion. I like the fact that I can still use staves and the ice theme for me fits well with the class, however, this should be a choice and not a requirement if you want some decent DPS

Issues I see currently:
- Sustain, probably the worst class for it. Maybe a slight buff to the netch could fix this or reduction in spammables
- Scorch. Why is his 9s? Completely obvious in PVP and for trash fights, most things are dead before the second shalks go off. Revert back to 6s like Sub Assault. I still don't understand this change.
- Agree with you re Frozen Gate, needs looking at
- Passives as discussed above

ESO_Nightingale

ramdrop wrote: »

I'm a Warden main and every PTS cycle I read your posts @ESO_Nightingale and can relate to it all as well as the other Warden's here.

I chose a magden because I wanted to use a staff and could play at range. When hybridization first came in and the meta started with DW I kept my staves because I don't see why a magic focused character should wield swords, it just looks weird.

Update 35 happened and this was a bad time for our beloved class, damage went right down and I was on the verge of taking a break. It's got better as the patches have gone on but there are still a few things that need to change - by reverting Arctic Blast to a delayed stun is a stepback in my opinion. I like the fact that I can still use staves and the ice theme for me fits well with the class, however, this should be a choice and not a requirement if you want some decent DPS

Issues I see currently:
- Sustain, probably the worst class for it. Maybe a slight buff to the netch could fix this or reduction in spammables
- Scorch. Why is his 9s? Completely obvious in PVP and for trash fights, most things are dead before the second shalks go off. Revert back to 6s like Sub Assault. I still don't understand this change.
- Agree with you re Frozen Gate, needs looking at
- Passives as discussed above

Definitely agree. Sustain and damage are major problems on the class. The shalks and passive changes were overall nerfs to most of the class. Frostden basically clawed back what warden had before but other weapon settups did not. They've yet to give back the damage loss we suffered.

merpins

PVE warden DPS here. Bleed build still works, not top DPS, but still good. Otherwise the class is pretty dead for PVE. Along with Templar and stam sorc.