Templar is Depressingly Bad

Mansquito

I'm sorry to add to the chorus of (ignored) moaning about the Templars at the moment but it is really making me want to uninstall the game. I love the competitive element of the game, loathe the toxicity, lament team green camping Arri lumber, but worst of all I just can't get the motivation to play this anymore with my only class being so thoroughly uncompetitive.

I have tried all damage sets, crit builds, a mixture, cheese builds etc and just have no way near the amount of burst to kill players. I can run Order's Wrath, Clever Alc, Markyn, Balorgh's and still hit like a wet noodle.

The spammable is so bad right now, it's nearly impossible to actually hit half of the jabs, and when you do connect it does barely any damage. Not to mention the lag amplifies this even more. The burst skill has either been nerfed into oblivion or is just bugged, and I'm left wondering what can I do. There is no offensive output on this class and it seems every class has better burst, sustained damage output, in addition to better burst heals. So even if you're fortunate enough to find a squishy a lot of them can just heal through what you have. On top of all of that, it's a class with very, very poor mobility. So we're expected to stay in our runes with zero damage and do what exactly?

I don't want to level up a new class and join the sweatlords on DKs and Wardens, but I'm at a loss to know what to do right now.

I know this will be ignored by the devs and I know they're not interested in helping the class, but it's just a terribly frustrating experience at the moment and has pushed me to the point where I think the end of the road has come.

FirmamentOfStars

Well there are not many options for you then, but a few things come to my mind:

- Start using total cheese sets to get back the missing damage via master dual wield, vate ice staff, zaan or maarselok and wear mara's balm to complement your defence.
- Get so good at the game, so you can play your favourite class normally without cheese and still killing everything (literally no one even wants to fight me anymore in my home campaign...)
- take a break from ESO... a few days, weeks or even longer depending on your motivation to play the game. Or to just await some needed buffs to the class.
- Well... level up a DK or wait till the new busted arcanist class coming in June/July.

Sadly, I am not even joking with this. Good luck.

fred4

Deltia is a templar main. It was his favorite class. He put out a build recently. I haven't tried it, but looking at how the build works, I think it could be good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1-vSVQjl4

merpins

Templar main since 2014 here; I do not care how much they buff Templar. They could make templar the best class in the game by miles, give it a skill that does 1 million damage per tic, or make it instantly kill bosses without as much as a button press.

... But since U35, I will not be touching templar again out of principle.

My favorite skill in this game was Jabs. Didn't matter which morph; the skill just looked good and felt good to use. I started college for animation in 2014, graduated in 2018, and have been working in animation since then, and I figured out why the skill caught my eye. The animation was done well, timed properly (an animation term), and did good damage. But it didn't NEED to do good damage. There were times since the game came out where the skill was like hitting people with pillows, and I still used it because it was a fun skill due to it being satisfying to use, since it followed the principles of animation well.

The animation change on the other hand ignores the principles of animation. It's not timed well, in fact it looks like it's animated straight ahead and has no variation in the timing at all. Despite being faster, the skill looks slower than the old version due to how improperly it was animated. It also looks bad, reuses assets already available in game that are not lore friendly to the class (I can ignore that if the skill was actually animated properly), and does far less damage than it used to (again, something I can ignore if it was animated properly). Worst part, this is almost purely a timing issue! That's basically the last step of the animation process! It's something that, with how short the animation is, could be done by a single animator in less than an hour! This ONE skipped step is what makes the animation look terrible. There's no slow ins or slow outs, it does't have any anticipation, there are no arcs (I could explain why in detail, but it probably has to do with the difference between something called Inverse Kinematics and Forward Kinematics in animation, google it if you're interested), the secondary action isn't exaggerated enough to give the animation any life so it looks super robotic... I could go on. The animation looks like it's just key poses that were pushed out in an afternoon and never actually finished, they just let the animation software finish the animation.

I will not use Templar unless the animation is fixed, scrapped for the old animation, or reworked entirely. Out of principle. revamping old animations can be fine and good, but only if done properly. Only if it's an actual visual upgrade, not a downgrade like this one is.

TechMaybeHic

fred4 wrote: »

Deltia is a templar main. It was his favorite class. He put out a build recently. I haven't tried it, but looking at how the build works, I think it could be good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1-vSVQjl4

I am with him in making use of, and leaning into radiant oppression, and leaving jabs alone, and living dark is a good skill, but POTL:/PL cannot be counted on. Especially with layering DOTs as well. The good players are going to have maras, and swap to that bar, and all the DOTs, and minor breach, and POTL itself is going to proc a complete purge

Syiccal

I'm not sure why, maybe he paid to say it, but Deltia keeps bringing vids out saying how strong power of the light is when every one that plays the game templar or not knows its been gutted to non usable in pvp

Turtle_Bot

Syiccal wrote: »

I'm not sure why, maybe he paid to say it, but Deltia keeps bringing vids out saying how strong power of the light is when every one that plays the game templar or not knows its been gutted to non usable in pvp

He's probably referring to PotL/PL in PvE content, not PvP if I had to guess. It is still decent in PvE, it's not working properly in PvP though because battle spirit is double dipping when applying the damage done reduction to it.

AdamLAD

I have no idea why they changed jabs completely. Jabs should of stopped the same when temp was really strong and burning light should of been nerfed, it was the only thing making temps seem like they were really strong with the passive damage. Unfortunately they gutted the offensive toolkit when they change jabs. I think templar in other areas is solid however, healing, Sustain ect. Its just pure wet in terms of Damage outside beam. I remember people saying they were sick of temps jab jab jab jab jab, fair point but it wasn't jabs itself that was strong, it was burning light. Again another area which zenimax nerfed but it was in the completely wrong area

Syiccal

AdamLAD wrote: »

I have no idea why they changed jabs completely. Jabs should of stopped the same when temp was really strong and burning light should of been nerfed, it was the only thing making temps seem like they were really strong with the passive damage. Unfortunately they gutted the offensive toolkit when they change jabs. I think templar in other areas is solid however, healing, Sustain ect. Its just pure wet in terms of Damage outside beam. I remember people saying they were sick of temps jab jab jab jab jab, fair point but it wasn't jabs itself that was strong, it was burning light. Again another area which zenimax nerfed but it was in the completely wrong area

I'm having to use vateshran staff and master dw along with well timed dawnbreaker to bring ppl to execute and then beam them down..I use jabs still but mainly for the major sorcery and for bit bit more pressure on top the dots, but yea on its own it's not enough especially without PoL

AdamLAD

Andeh who I play with hits 2k critical on his jabs. He has 125% crit increase. Its wet. Necro, sorcerer and temp next patch are in the bin

Syiccal

AdamLAD wrote: »

Andeh who I play with hits 2k critical on his jabs. He has 125% crit increase. Its wet. Necro, sorcerer and temp next patch are in the bin

Just makes it more of a challenge lolz...dk is a carry right now, I only play it for tier 1 transmutes...temp is my main for better or worse

Syiccal

Jabs not only took a big dmg nerf in previous patches but it's mitigated by multiple champ points, skills, armour passivs because its direct dmg and aoe, not to mention its channeled so hitting all 3 can be difficult at times

AdamLAD

Syiccal wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Andeh who I play with hits 2k critical on his jabs. He has 125% crit increase. Its wet. Necro, sorcerer and temp next patch are in the bin

Just makes it more of a challenge lolz...dk is a carry right now, I only play it for tier 1 transmutes...temp is my main for better or worse

I can't take nightblade, Dk and certain warden set ups seriously. Any clips with them aren't impressive, unless it's a phenomenal clip. People are quick to forget what gap is between classes. I'd rather watch a 1v5 on a magsorc over a 1v10 on a Dk. Because Dk is, in every single department far superior. There's not one aspect where is not stronger. Even where sorcerer shines in mobility and range Dk is better. Race against time has way better overall consistency with movement over streak and DK take flight does more consistent and reliable damage than an a sorcerer combination. Its truly broken.

Syiccal

AdamLAD wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Andeh who I play with hits 2k critical on his jabs. He has 125% crit increase. Its wet. Necro, sorcerer and temp next patch are in the bin

Just makes it more of a challenge lolz...dk is a carry right now, I only play it for tier 1 transmutes...temp is my main for better or worse

I can't take nightblade, Dk and certain warden set ups seriously. Any clips with them aren't impressive, unless it's a phenomenal clip. People are quick to forget what gap is between classes. I'd rather watch a 1v5 on a magsorc over a 1v10 on a Dk. Because Dk is, in every single department far superior. There's not one aspect where is not stronger. Even where sorcerer shines in mobility and range Dk is better. Race against time has way better overall consistency with movement over streak and DK take flight does more consistent and reliable damage than an a sorcerer combination. Its truly broken.

Dk and NB also have he easiest way to reset fights whether it's a leap/corrosive which resests all stats with a burst heal/shield or just vanishing and fighting at a time of your choice.

AdamLAD

Agreed.

mmtaniac

I played templar last few days can't kill anyone but they can't kill me too. it's not fun. Overpowered sets are main problem. Templar need buff or changes too but still sets can do too much. Especially Mara. I use Deadly(work nice with jabs and jbeam) ,Mara, Balorgh and Vate frost staff off bar. Maybe i should remove Balorgh and take some mythic but i don't like any. I need armor penetration mythic.

Udrath

Templar has really low burst. I’ve ran pretty much ran every set. Auroran thunder front bar(maces) clever alch back bar, malacath and balrogh. Dw/resto. Hits hard but you’ll be doing resto heavies often. Really need like 7k spell damage on any build and with malacath unless you have 35% critical chance or higher, then use Markyn or something.

Mansquito

The thing is I can have a good character stats sheet but the class skills are dross. Both the spammable and the burst class skills are so wet, fair enough you could just not run jabs but the lack of any available, viable burst skill is a real problem.

The jabs nerf I could live with, even though it's not right, but the nerf or change to PotL/PL really, really sent the Templar to bottom tier DD. Now, combine both of those and you really can struggle to kill other DDs.

Sorcs are killable but have streak and if they're AdamLAD then it's basically impossible on a Templar. Wardens and DKs are a no no unless the player you're facing is below average, even NBs can out-brawl and out-heal a Templar.

MEBengalsFan2001

fred4 wrote: »

Deltia is a templar main. It was his favorite class. He put out a build recently. I haven't tried it, but looking at how the build works, I think it could be good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1-vSVQjl4

I've been running a similar build but instead of using Pariah I use Order Wraith for more critical damage. The issue is I don't have the resistance that pariah or mara provides. Even with running war maiden and order I can't do the damage I do on my NB, Warden or DK when those classes use 2 defensive sets. That right there is how imbalance the game is that one class using two offensive sets gets out damage by three classes using two defensive sets. In fact on my NB, Warden and DK I even use defensive mythic and monster and still outperform a full offensive templar.

The build Deltia has is actually quiet boring and less effective IMO than a ranged Sorc. Devs simply don't know how to balance the game and it has been in a messy place now for a while.

Amerises

merpins wrote: »

Templar main since 2014 here; I do not care how much they buff Templar. They could make templar the best class in the game by miles, give it a skill that does 1 million damage per tic, or make it instantly kill bosses without as much as a button press.

... But since U35, I will not be touching templar again out of principle.

My favorite skill in this game was Jabs. Didn't matter which morph; the skill just looked good and felt good to use. I started college for animation in 2014, graduated in 2018, and have been working in animation since then, and I figured out why the skill caught my eye. The animation was done well, timed properly (an animation term), and did good damage. But it didn't NEED to do good damage. There were times since the game came out where the skill was like hitting people with pillows, and I still used it because it was a fun skill due to it being satisfying to use, since it followed the principles of animation well.

The animation change on the other hand ignores the principles of animation. It's not timed well, in fact it looks like it's animated straight ahead and has no variation in the timing at all. Despite being faster, the skill looks slower than the old version due to how improperly it was animated. It also looks bad, reuses assets already available in game that are not lore friendly to the class (I can ignore that if the skill was actually animated properly), and does far less damage than it used to (again, something I can ignore if it was animated properly). Worst part, this is almost purely a timing issue! That's basically the last step of the animation process! It's something that, with how short the animation is, could be done by a single animator in less than an hour! This ONE skipped step is what makes the animation look terrible. There's no slow ins or slow outs, it does't have any anticipation, there are no arcs (I could explain why in detail, but it probably has to do with the difference between something called Inverse Kinematics and Forward Kinematics in animation, google it if you're interested), the secondary action isn't exaggerated enough to give the animation any life so it looks super robotic... I could go on. The animation looks like it's just key poses that were pushed out in an afternoon and never actually finished, they just let the animation software finish the animation.

I will not use Templar unless the animation is fixed, scrapped for the old animation, or reworked entirely. Out of principle. revamping old animations can be fine and good, but only if done properly. Only if it's an actual visual upgrade, not a downgrade like this one is.

Can someone give me the TL;DR ?

Afterip

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

I've been running a similar build but instead of using Pariah I use Order Wraith for more critical damage. The issue is I don't have the resistance that pariah or mara provides. Even with running war maiden and order I can't do the damage I do on my NB, Warden or DK when those classes use 2 defensive sets. That right there is how imbalance the game is that one class using two offensive sets gets out damage by three classes using two defensive sets. In fact on my NB, Warden and DK I even use defensive mythic and monster and still outperform a full offensive templar.

The build Deltia has is actually quiet boring and less effective IMO than a ranged Sorc. Devs simply don't know how to balance the game and it has been in a messy place now for a while.

Mansquito wrote: »

The thing is I can have a good character stats sheet but the class skills are dross. Both the spammable and the burst class skills are so wet, fair enough you could just not run jabs but the lack of any available, viable burst skill is a real problem.

The jabs nerf I could live with, even though it's not right, but the nerf or change to PotL/PL really, really sent the Templar to bottom tier DD. Now, combine both of those and you really can struggle to kill other DDs.

Sorcs are killable but have streak and if they're AdamLAD then it's basically impossible on a Templar. Wardens and DKs are a no no unless the player you're facing is below average, even NBs can out-brawl and out-heal a Templar.

You both don't say anything about necro because we (necromancers) are in the right place right now...

Stncold

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The build Deltia has is actually quiet boring and less effective IMO than a ranged Sorc. Devs simply don't know how to balance the game and it has been in a messy place now for a while.

I def wouldn't say less effective than a ranged sorc but it is certainly boring. But that's also any build that's heavily reliant on procs to do damage. I don't think even he really enjoys it because everytime I look at his stream he's pvping on a dk or stamsorc. Really shows the state of a class when it's probably best pvp build is so proc reliant for damage and the content creator most associated with it almost never plays it anymore.

merpins

Amerises wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Templar main since 2014 here; I do not care how much they buff Templar. They could make templar the best class in the game by miles, give it a skill that does 1 million damage per tic, or make it instantly kill bosses without as much as a button press.

... But since U35, I will not be touching templar again out of principle.

My favorite skill in this game was Jabs. Didn't matter which morph; the skill just looked good and felt good to use. I started college for animation in 2014, graduated in 2018, and have been working in animation since then, and I figured out why the skill caught my eye. The animation was done well, timed properly (an animation term), and did good damage. But it didn't NEED to do good damage. There were times since the game came out where the skill was like hitting people with pillows, and I still used it because it was a fun skill due to it being satisfying to use, since it followed the principles of animation well.

The animation change on the other hand ignores the principles of animation. It's not timed well, in fact it looks like it's animated straight ahead and has no variation in the timing at all. Despite being faster, the skill looks slower than the old version due to how improperly it was animated. It also looks bad, reuses assets already available in game that are not lore friendly to the class (I can ignore that if the skill was actually animated properly), and does far less damage than it used to (again, something I can ignore if it was animated properly). Worst part, this is almost purely a timing issue! That's basically the last step of the animation process! It's something that, with how short the animation is, could be done by a single animator in less than an hour! This ONE skipped step is what makes the animation look terrible. There's no slow ins or slow outs, it does't have any anticipation, there are no arcs (I could explain why in detail, but it probably has to do with the difference between something called Inverse Kinematics and Forward Kinematics in animation, google it if you're interested), the secondary action isn't exaggerated enough to give the animation any life so it looks super robotic... I could go on. The animation looks like it's just key poses that were pushed out in an afternoon and never actually finished, they just let the animation software finish the animation.

I will not use Templar unless the animation is fixed, scrapped for the old animation, or reworked entirely. Out of principle. revamping old animations can be fine and good, but only if done properly. Only if it's an actual visual upgrade, not a downgrade like this one is.

Can someone give me the TL;DR ?

I've mained templar since the game came out because Jabs was my favorite skill. I've also been a professional animator since around the time the game came out. The animation change to Jabs kills the class for me because it breaks the rules animators use to make animations, which are in place because without them, animation looks bad. Which is why Jabs looks bad. Which is why I don't play Templar anymore.

Amerises

merpins wrote: »

Amerises wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Templar main since 2014 here; I do not care how much they buff Templar. They could make templar the best class in the game by miles, give it a skill that does 1 million damage per tic, or make it instantly kill bosses without as much as a button press.

... But since U35, I will not be touching templar again out of principle.

My favorite skill in this game was Jabs. Didn't matter which morph; the skill just looked good and felt good to use. I started college for animation in 2014, graduated in 2018, and have been working in animation since then, and I figured out why the skill caught my eye. The animation was done well, timed properly (an animation term), and did good damage. But it didn't NEED to do good damage. There were times since the game came out where the skill was like hitting people with pillows, and I still used it because it was a fun skill due to it being satisfying to use, since it followed the principles of animation well.

The animation change on the other hand ignores the principles of animation. It's not timed well, in fact it looks like it's animated straight ahead and has no variation in the timing at all. Despite being faster, the skill looks slower than the old version due to how improperly it was animated. It also looks bad, reuses assets already available in game that are not lore friendly to the class (I can ignore that if the skill was actually animated properly), and does far less damage than it used to (again, something I can ignore if it was animated properly). Worst part, this is almost purely a timing issue! That's basically the last step of the animation process! It's something that, with how short the animation is, could be done by a single animator in less than an hour! This ONE skipped step is what makes the animation look terrible. There's no slow ins or slow outs, it does't have any anticipation, there are no arcs (I could explain why in detail, but it probably has to do with the difference between something called Inverse Kinematics and Forward Kinematics in animation, google it if you're interested), the secondary action isn't exaggerated enough to give the animation any life so it looks super robotic... I could go on. The animation looks like it's just key poses that were pushed out in an afternoon and never actually finished, they just let the animation software finish the animation.

I will not use Templar unless the animation is fixed, scrapped for the old animation, or reworked entirely. Out of principle. revamping old animations can be fine and good, but only if done properly. Only if it's an actual visual upgrade, not a downgrade like this one is.

Can someone give me the TL;DR ?

I've mained templar since the game came out because Jabs was my favorite skill. I've also been a professional animator since around the time the game came out. The animation change to Jabs kills the class for me because it breaks the rules animators use to make animations, which are in place because without them, animation looks bad. Which is why Jabs looks bad. Which is why I don't play Templar anymore.

Okay. I second that. Minus the “I’m an animator,” which honestly probably makes it way worse to look at 😬

MEBengalsFan2001

Afterip wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

I've been running a similar build but instead of using Pariah I use Order Wraith for more critical damage. The issue is I don't have the resistance that pariah or mara provides. Even with running war maiden and order I can't do the damage I do on my NB, Warden or DK when those classes use 2 defensive sets. That right there is how imbalance the game is that one class using two offensive sets gets out damage by three classes using two defensive sets. In fact on my NB, Warden and DK I even use defensive mythic and monster and still outperform a full offensive templar.

The build Deltia has is actually quiet boring and less effective IMO than a ranged Sorc. Devs simply don't know how to balance the game and it has been in a messy place now for a while.

Mansquito wrote: »

The thing is I can have a good character stats sheet but the class skills are dross. Both the spammable and the burst class skills are so wet, fair enough you could just not run jabs but the lack of any available, viable burst skill is a real problem.

The jabs nerf I could live with, even though it's not right, but the nerf or change to PotL/PL really, really sent the Templar to bottom tier DD. Now, combine both of those and you really can struggle to kill other DDs.

Sorcs are killable but have streak and if they're AdamLAD then it's basically impossible on a Templar. Wardens and DKs are a no no unless the player you're facing is below average, even NBs can out-brawl and out-heal a Templar.

You both don't say anything about necro because we (necromancers) are in the right place right now...

Necro are just as bad as Templars. Both shouldn't be used. When it comes to healing/tanking, IMO Necro are better than Templars. IMO Templars are the worst class in the game ATM.

This latest update at least gave Sorc shields again for their build, but honestly it isn't enough against a DK, Warden or NB.

godchucknzilla

Templar is very good they just released a BIS set for Templar (IMO) called Snake in the stars. This set is giving the templar a (around) 15k proc off of POTL. Try this build:

Mara's Balm Back Bar Ice Staff, Chest, Legs, Boots (Impen)
Snake In Stars, Ring, Amulet, Maces (Nirn Sharp), Belt (Impen)
Mystic, Markyn
Monster Set, Chudan

Front Bar Skill:
Reflective Light, Power of The Light, Aurora Javelin, Radiant Opression, Degeneration, ICE COMMET Ultimate

Back Bar Skill:
Elusive Mistform, Bubble, Resolve Vigor, Honor the Dead, Extended Ritural, Vampire Ultimate

Front Bar Dual Damage Poisons
Back Bar Escapist Poisons

Stage 3 Vampire and Jewels of Misrule
CP All defensive CP's, Crit Resist CP, Iron Clad, Duelist Rebuff,

TechMaybeHic

godchucknzilla wrote: »

Templar is very good they just released a BIS set for Templar (IMO) called Snake in the stars. This set is giving the templar a (around) 15k proc off of POTL. Try this build:

Mara's Balm Back Bar Ice Staff, Chest, Legs, Boots (Impen)
Snake In Stars, Ring, Amulet, Maces (Nirn Sharp), Belt (Impen)
Mystic, Markyn
Monster Set, Chudan

Front Bar Skill:
Reflective Light, Power of The Light, Aurora Javelin, Radiant Opression, Degeneration, ICE COMMET Ultimate

Back Bar Skill:
Elusive Mistform, Bubble, Resolve Vigor, Honor the Dead, Extended Ritural, Vampire Ultimate

Front Bar Dual Damage Poisons
Back Bar Escapist Poisons

Stage 3 Vampire and Jewels of Misrule
CP All defensive CP's, Crit Resist CP, Iron Clad, Duelist Rebuff,

Wat does Snake in the stars do for templar?

godchucknzilla

Makes beam disgusting on Magplar.

I just watched that Deltia Stamplar build , that build is Sick also.

the1andonlyskwex

godchucknzilla wrote: »

Makes beam disgusting on Magplar.

I just watched that Deltia Stamplar build , that build is Sick also.

Since when does beam apply lots of tiny heal ticks to your enemies?

godchucknzilla

You apply snake proc with potl right before radiant

the1andonlyskwex

godchucknzilla wrote: »

You apply snake proc with potl right before radiant

So? Snake deals damage for each heal tick your target takes, not for each heal tick you take. Radiant deals damage to your target and heals you. At best, snake will proc off of your target's existing HoTs (not affected by Radiant) and maybe proc one extra time on the burst heal they use to try to mitigate Radiant. There isn't anything special happening there.

If Snake damaged your target every time you healed yourself it would be awesome with Radiant, but that's not how it works.