Please clarify: patch note comments on Oakensoul and WW in Cloudrest

SirLeeMinion

This was added to the patch notes:

Voltaic Current no longer functions differently for players with a second weapon bar unlocked, and are in Werewolf form or have the Oakensoul item equipped.

I'm having trouble parsing what this means. Up until now, running Cloudrest as a WW or with Oakensoul and an empty back bar meant that the most serious aspects of Voltaic Overload did not apply to you (since you cannot swap bars). Running Cloudrest with Oakensoul and a backbar weapon equipped meant that Voltaic Overload impacted you unavoidably and in the worst way. So, rather than find this out at the expense of eleven other players, does this change mean that:

1. Running Oakensoul with a weapon on the back bar now functions like Werewolf and like running Oakensoul with an empty backbar always have. That is Voltaic Overload will no longer seriously impact you while wearing Oakensoul with weapons and skills on the back bar. Yay!

or

2. Running Oakensoul with an empty backbar or as a Werewolf now functions the way it always has for two bar builds. That is, you are still required to change bars, but since you cannot, RIP; don't bring one bar builds to Cloudrest. Boo!

Thank you in advance for clarifying!

kringled_1

From what other people have told me, it's scenario 2. The game appears to prefer to give overload to players with 2 bars, but if someone with OS does get overload it's difficult to respond/recover.

Azrael_1976

The Vampire Mist Form was nerfed a while ago in a similiar way because people used it to exploit certain boss mechanics...

Voltaic Overcharge ist meant to be a dangerous mechanic, which can wipe the whole group, when ignored. The possibility to exploit this with Oakensoul was a spit in the face of all players, which have earned their Cloudrest achievements with blood and tears.

JJMaxx1980

Azrael_1976 wrote: »

The Vampire Mist Form was nerfed a while ago in a similiar way because people used it to exploit certain boss mechanics...

Voltaic Overcharge ist meant to be a dangerous mechanic, which can wipe the whole group, when ignored. The possibility to exploit this with Oakensoul was a spit in the face of all players, which have earned their Cloudrest achievements with blood and tears.

Blood and tears? Seriously? Spit in the face? Cloudrest is a 6 year-old trial that people were clearing back when 60k was considered top-tier damage. With over half a decade of power creep it’s ancient content and is honestly a joke. Acting like any Cloudrest achievement means anything is cringe, tbh.

Vevvev

People exploited the possibility to avoid one of the mechanics, and nothing makes ZOS nerf something harder in PvE than skipping entire mechanics with unintended tactics.

Oakensoul wasn't even a test of skill but a build choice that completely hard countered that mechanic so it makes sense that ZOS went back on it.

SirLeeMinion

So, Bastian and I tested this solo,and then tested with other players.

Sadly, it does appear to be number 2.

blktauna

I'd always approached it as the second choice.

Arawin

I'm sure all the one-bar-build haters will love this, once again, we now have a trial with a boss that is only available to 2 bar users. This contradicts the whole design philosophy of the Oakensoul ring and also the Werewolf builds from what I have heard (I've never played a WW so can't really comment to that).
Changing the Voltaic Overload ability into some other "normal high-damage mechanic" would have been the common sense answer.

code65536

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

Acting like any Cloudrest achievement means anything is cringe, tbh.

[snip]

Cloudrest can still easily wipe inexperienced groups today. It's withstood power creep much better than, say, Rakkhat or triplets, because Cloudrest is not nearly as sensitive to DPS as many other trial fights. Bring enough DPS to Rakkhat, and you skip the vast majority of notable mechanics. High DPS in Cloudrest lets you see fewer mechanics, but you don't skip them outright, and you still need to deal with them.

Which is why it's important that issues like this are addressed, because more so than any other trial, Cloudrest is the mechanics trial, and having a behavior that trivializes that harms the trial more than half a decade of power creep.

In any case, the mechanic does prioritize 2-bar builds, so 1-bar builds can still do the trial as long as you have enough 2-bar builds in there to shield 1-bar builds from getting it.

[edited for minor baiting]

aaisoaho

There is not a single mythic that can be good in every situation, and now it applies to oakensoul too. There are workarounds you can use to play it safe without the oakensoul.

The workarounds requires you to come up with sources for the different buffs the oakensoul gives you. The major one being the empower, which you can get from mage's guild passive and casting a mage's guild ability like scalding rune. Also you should use spell/weapon damage + crit potions.

1. Identical bars and different mythic

With identical bars and different mythic, you retain the ease of use. The trade off is slightly lower DPS.

2. Blackrose prison dual wield bait bar

With blackrose prison dual wield and quick cloak as your backbar, you get similar or even a bit higher DPS than with oakensoul. You also get additional skill slots for more tools like crit surge and a self heal for portal shenanigans. Plus blackrose prison dual wield adds some survivability by giving a 10% damage taken reduction and major evasion. This workaround is a bit harder, since you need to be aware when the voltaic is going to apply to you, and you need to get the voltaic to apply to your backbar.

Hardcoretexan

The thing is the ring prevents you from bar swapping remove that option where you can swap bars but have to have the same skills or even different skills that don't benefit from the ring on the back bar.
Or maybe a one bar has to cuddle with another player to share the damage, same with werewolves.
One bar users don't need to be discriminated against a lot of users are now able to play the game to a higher degree of satisfaction now without the added difficulty of 2 bars. Many users have disabilities such as dyslexia, missing digits, arthritis and even learning disabilities the oakensoul ring helps out with them.
Also for those who have the mightier than thou complex about 2 bars users are better, there is an old saying work smarter not harder if the ring is available to all users then why cry about some people using it.
Better yet make Cloudrest voltaic energy affect all mythic users the same if you have one on you die and kill the group!!!

jecks33

code65536 wrote: »

High DPS in Cloudrest lets you see fewer mechanics, but you don't skip them outright, and you still need to deal with them.

there is people that completely skip portal mechanics parsing zmaja till his death

Auldwulfe

Vevvev wrote: »

People exploited the possibility to avoid one of the mechanics, and nothing makes ZOS nerf something harder in PvE than skipping entire mechanics with unintended tactics.

Oakensoul wasn't even a test of skill but a build choice that completely hard countered that mechanic so it makes sense that ZOS went back on it.

SO, use the exact same build with Sergeant's Mail, but sub in Order's Wrath, all in light, instead of Storm Masters.... use critical surge, and you can get empower from ANY mage guild skill ... I prefer the one that enhances crit, but your mileage may vary.
And I run an identical staff on back bar - using Sergeant's in weapon and jewelry, so no heavy - and Slimecraw ....

I get about the same damage as the OS build.... within 3K above or below..... depending on your timing, on the parse...... but still breaking the 37K mark in every dungeon and trial I have done. The Oakenphobes can gnash their teeth all day, as it's the same easy build without their favorite complaint....and oh, Critical Surge gives me such steady healing, I almost don't need the Matron... and can either lean more into the damage side of the pet, or even consider dropping the pet, without all that much loss...... as long as I have potions.

Using Imperial as my race with the undaunted passives, and I am plenty tanky enough.... thinking of swapping order's wrath out for Queen's Elegance, so I have permanent uptime with empower in combat ... as it procs every second whenever you attack, for 3 seconds...... switch out for the fighter version of permanent slotted crit, and dawnbreaker, to max out the fighter guild passive for more damage.

Queen's Elegance is light, so I still get the crit bonus for that... I think the final difference is only about 10%, 50 as opposed to 60% crit.. if you run the right CP ..... still enough for Crit Surge to really do it for healing, and that one only needs to be used once every 33 seconds

And, with identical bars... the overload has no real effect on me, at all... still hitting in the top 4 on any trial I run in.

Auldwulfe

Soarora

jecks33 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

High DPS in Cloudrest lets you see fewer mechanics, but you don't skip them outright, and you still need to deal with them.

there is people that completely skip portal mechanics parsing zmaja till his death

An extreme few amount of people. The top .01% are irrelevant to balancing discussions.