Genuine question: Why add a cc set that doesn't give cc immunity?

xDeusEJRx

sharquez wrote: »

If it was broken why hasn't it been fixed? It's an intended mechanic that has outlived every other one of those sets for a reason. Of course the MAKERS of the GAME have the final say. They can choose whether or not to react to feedback.

What's your experience with the set?
Have you used it? Were you solo or with a coordinated group.
Has it ended a stalemate in a big fight you were a part of?

I've used it, quite a lot. It is not an all powerful I win button, and it many times will get you killed as much as it helps you get kills. In fact Id say I've had my best bombs with out the set, but I think its a good tool to have in back pocket for classes that can make use of it and as combo enabler.

Just because something isn't fixed doesn't mean it's not broken. Dark convergence existed for about 3 months before they nerfed it and they nerfed it about 3 different times saying it does "ultimate like abilities". So just because it exists without being nerfed doesn't mean it's not broken.

That's hardly an argument.

My experience with this set? Simple, I don't use it because I don't like sets like these because they aren't fun for me. However, I encounter this set all the time, typically by people using Stampede to chain pull you from the proc.

This set just ignores immunity which is why a lot of people cast "race against time" or "shuffle" or any other CC immunity skill. It completely ignoring that dynamic is a waste of someone's resources and the counterplay to it is just to not use cc's I guess? Not to say it's a total waste as you get added benefits from both RAT and shuffle, but in a lot of cases people cast them to get immunity.

It's quite fun when the counterplay to a set or playstyle is "just don't engage with people who use this because you won't know when you're gonna waste resources casting skills for negligible benefit"

sharquez

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Just because something isn't fixed doesn't mean it's not broken. Dark convergence existed for about 3 months before they nerfed it and they nerfed it about 3 different times saying it does "ultimate like abilities". So just because it exists without being nerfed doesn't mean it's not broken.

That's hardly an argument.

The heck it isn't. You're missing the context here. It was released WITH those sets! Why would this one go untouched if it wasn't explicitly a part of the intended design and considered to be a balanced part of the gameplay? Its been here for 2 years.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

My experience with this set? Simple, I don't use it because I don't like sets like these because they aren't fun for me. However, I encounter this set all the time, typically by people using Stampede to chain pull you from the proc.

So you lack practical experience with it, that's okay. You can't know or do everything. But taking the opportunity to try it out would help you I think. I don't enjoy every playstyle of every class/build my self but I do try them out to see where it falls short. You don't like it? Fine then don't like it.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

This set just ignores immunity which is why a lot of people cast "race against time" or "shuffle" or any other CC immunity skill. It completely ignoring that dynamic is a waste of someone's resources and the counterplay to it is just to not use cc's I guess? Not to say it's a total waste as you get added benefits from both RAT and shuffle, but in a lot of cases people cast them to get immunity.

It's quite fun when the counterplay to a set or playstyle is "just don't engage with people who use this because you won't know when you're gonna waste resources casting skills for negligible benefit"

The counterplay is blocking and positioning. Same as for most things in the game. If you get blown up by it? Well better luck next time, someone(s) did something wrong/right and it forced the scenario to its conclusion.

xDeusEJRx

sharquez wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Just because something isn't fixed doesn't mean it's not broken. Dark convergence existed for about 3 months before they nerfed it and they nerfed it about 3 different times saying it does "ultimate like abilities". So just because it exists without being nerfed doesn't mean it's not broken.

That's hardly an argument.

The heck it isn't. You're missing the context here. It was released WITH those sets! Why would this one go untouched if it wasn't explicitly a part of the intended design and considered to be a balanced part of the gameplay? Its been here for 2 years.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

My experience with this set? Simple, I don't use it because I don't like sets like these because they aren't fun for me. However, I encounter this set all the time, typically by people using Stampede to chain pull you from the proc.

So you lack practical experience with it, that's okay. You can't know or do everything. But taking the opportunity to try it out would help you I think. I don't enjoy every playstyle of every class/build my self but I do try them out to see where it falls short. You don't like it? Fine then don't like it.

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

This set just ignores immunity which is why a lot of people cast "race against time" or "shuffle" or any other CC immunity skill. It completely ignoring that dynamic is a waste of someone's resources and the counterplay to it is just to not use cc's I guess? Not to say it's a total waste as you get added benefits from both RAT and shuffle, but in a lot of cases people cast them to get immunity.

It's quite fun when the counterplay to a set or playstyle is "just don't engage with people who use this because you won't know when you're gonna waste resources casting skills for negligible benefit"

The counterplay is blocking and positioning. Same as for most things in the game. If you get blown up by it? Well better luck next time, someone(s) did something wrong/right and it forced the scenario to its conclusion.

If we're talking about time frame when sets released, savage werewolf has existed longer than all the aformentioned ones but only recently got nerfed in 2022 because people found unintended ways to use the set. Same as with every other set, people find ways to abuse things that are clearly overperforming in ways they didn't intend them to

Also, I don't need to personally use a set to know what it does. There are informational videos that showcase new sets and how they work. That plus I've seen it in action so I know the functionality of it.

Position and blocking works sure if you're paying attention to characters to see visual indicators like that. Most people in PVP are keeping track of their buff bars and resource most of the time in PVP though, not looking out for physical indicators on models, so it's very easy to not notice things like that.

There's a lot of hypotheticals. What if someone's a big zerg fight where they're seeing a lot of bodies at once? It's easy to not see this coming among a see of bodies. The same can be said about any big fight ongoing. However you can't expect a fight to flow how it normally would because this set can break the conventional norm of a fight.

sharquez

The rise of savage werewolf was the product of snowballing balance changes putting it where it eventually ended up.

They changed the entire way light and heavy attacks worked in the patch they fixed it because it was only a part of the "problem" they saw. (u35 was a mistake)

Now I will note that there were sword and shield builds out at the same time in savage werewolf era that beat it handily. But it was centralizing enough that something had to be done, but it was very heavy handed.

If RoA ends up as centralizing a force as SW was, it will be nerfed.

But it isn't. Its a damage dealing soft CC that works best when combined with hard CC to destroy large groups, and is nothing but an annoyance when used on an individual player.

If used thoughtlessly its even a liability providing a free gap closer, putting the user right in the crosshairs. Knowing what a set does and knowing what context to use it in are different things.

Redguards_Revenge

Just scanning through here.

It creates CC but does not apply CC immunity.

The set is broken.

There is no special explanation to this. It's broken. An oversight due to who knows why. Just like the oversight of most other sets placed into this game.

Now that someone has blown the whistle your "secret and unique" combo, it's only a matter of time before it gets fixed or everybody else uses it and you die along with them in pvp and lose the advantage.

Report the broken set. Don't exploit it.

TechMaybeHic

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

Just scanning through here.

It creates CC but does not apply CC immunity.

The set is broken.

There is no special explanation to this. It's broken. An oversight due to who knows why. Just like the oversight of most other sets placed into this game.

Now that someone has blown the whistle your "secret and unique" combo, it's only a matter of time before it gets fixed or everybody else uses it and you die along with them in pvp and lose the advantage.

Report the broken set. Don't exploit it.

It is broken, but it was intentional because they wanted you to be able to land damage after the pull. They just somehow were completely oblivious to how it can be abused to ping pong players around and over great distance to get stacked into a group bomb. Its usually a tool from larger groups to cluster smaller groups and random players together to bomb

sharquez

Broken implies working incorrectly or not at all. It's working correctly.

Just say you hate the set. You're pushing this false narrative of brokenness.

It's knowingly lying over videogame nonsense. it makes you look foolish.

You can hate the set, and not sound like a youtube clickbait thumbnail.

TechMaybeHic

sharquez wrote: »

Broken implies working incorrectly or not at all. It's working correctly.

Just say you hate the set. You're pushing this false narrative of brokenness.

It's knowingly lying over videogame nonsense. it makes you look foolish.

You can hate the set, and not sound like a youtube clickbait thumbnail.

As explained before, it is broken because of:

How the not respecting the CC immunity rules causes CC break to not function. You get pulled, normal reaction is to try to break free, but you are pulled again or CCed because there is no CC immunity, so you try to break free again, and it can repeat multiple times and when you finally get a CC that gives the immunity, you are on double or triple or more breakfree

The multiple pulls that are chained also tends to cause desync. I am told that it can be more likey by aurora javelin after a pull but I'm not sure of the details.

What's foolish is, a ton of people have talked about many different reasons the set is broken and you just chose to ignore it, or are fully aware because you like to use it.

sharquez

Block was (is?) broken.
Not being able to log into the servers is broken.
Game crashing lag in Cyrodiil is broken.
The reliquary of St. Veloth was broken.

A set working exactly as it say on the tool tip is not broken.

Just say you don't think its fair. Say you don't like it. It's not broken, your understanding of what broken means is.

TechMaybeHic

sharquez wrote: »

Block was (is?) broken.
Not being able to log into the servers is broken.
Game crashing lag in Cyrodiil is broken.
The reliquary of St. Veloth was broken.

A set working exactly as it say on the tool tip is not broken.

Just say you don't think its fair. Say you don't like it. It's not broken, your understanding of what broken means is.

What part of double and triple break free is not broken?

Or position desync?

sharquez

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Block was (is?) broken.
Not being able to log into the servers is broken.
Game crashing lag in Cyrodiil is broken.
The reliquary of St. Veloth was broken.

A set working exactly as it say on the tool tip is not broken.

Just say you don't think its fair. Say you don't like it. It's not broken, your understanding of what broken means is.

What part of double and triple break free is not broken?

Or position desync?

That sounds like a latency issue. I've had those problems in Cyrodiil long before these sets. Cyrodiil I can say, and most would agree, more often than not is probably broken.

ketsparrowhawk

sharquez wrote: »

Broken implies working incorrectly or not at all. It's working correctly.

Just say you hate the set. You're pushing this false narrative of brokenness.

It's knowingly lying over videogame nonsense. it makes you look foolish.

You can hate the set, and not sound like a youtube clickbait thumbnail.

If someone says "broken" to me I assume they mean "overpowered". If something isn't working properly it's usually described as "bugged".