Update 35 Combat Preview

Lazuli

I'm so happy with these changes .. the ESO elitist won't be happy about it , but it gives us (avergae players) a chance to join vet runs .. etc.

Starpulsechic

improving accessibility to the game’s combat by increasing the duration of outgoing ability effects (such as damage over time, buffs, and debuffs) and a continuation of the attempt to quell some of the obscene damage production at the high end

All these attempts to improve accessibility over the years through your combat changes and you could have just have recoded the game already. Recoding would have improved made the game accessible to everyone.

You already gave a mythic that aid people not wanting to play with more than 1 skill bar or worry about uptime on buffs.

Stop selling these changes like they help new or casual players. Go que a random dungeon and watch your new and casual players LA spam mobs and bosses.

devildeath1988b16_ESO

The combat system in ESO is something I always liked and it makes ESO different and unique.
Spend your time really embracing it so players on platforms that don't support addons can really learn how to master the combat!

I'm really afraid that this update will have a profoundly negative impact on the endgame community.

At the end of the day, isn't it entirely OK that some content is only available to you when you invest the time to actually master it? Do you think I would proudly talk about the achievements I completed in the game if it's something 80%+ of the players achieved?

Please reconsider and don't make the combat system casual...

chessalavakia_ESO

Xinihp wrote: »

Both of these sound like terrible changes to be honest. The weaving change, OK I guess some people just have a hard time pressing buttons, though honestly how many people is that really? No one I know has ever complained about ESO's complexity or button upkeep vs. other games. Regardless, the 33%+ AOE damage nerfs is just absolutely horrible.

This actually reminds me of the "dumbing down of WoW" where millions of subscribers left that game after over the top pruning of abilities.

Damage over time skills already do mediocre damage. In 90% of content you will face (solo) you don't want every single pack of mobs between you and a treasure chest or crafting resource to be a boss battle that requires setup and 10+ seconds to tick decent damage on your dots.

If you want to increase the duration of abilities for people who can't press buttons you damage the game for the vast majority. Increase the mana/stamina cost if you must do this. But lowering already mediocre AOE/DoT damage is going to absolutely wreck the experience of the game.

I too am tired of the changes to combat in ESO lately always being about taking things away and never adding anything. Vampire was bad. An entire class of abilities is CATASTROPHIC.

Who are these hypothetical minority unable to push buttons you are targeting these changes at? Do you have data about what percent of the population of paying customers they actually represent?

I would guess less than 15%. So why lose dollars chasing pennies, so to speak?

If you take a look at when ESO is discussed outside of ESO circles one of the consistent complaints you see is the animation canceling.

Some examples:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/v6u5mo/the_elder_scrolls_online_high_isle_launch/ibhb8fk/

https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/rwrdqd/the_elder_scrolls_online_2022_cinematic_teaser/hredu3c/

Ruj

I don't understand how this helps out new players. I consider myself super casual and my warden healer's light and heavy attacks healing the group is easy mode.

AoE damage ticks going fast on groups of mobs is helpful to all newbies. There's nothing easier we can place down.

RIP AoE damage helping the group while I heal.
This destroys my preferred warden AoE dps/heal build.

I love healing over time abilities as it helps me concentrate on trying to do more damage during fights to help newbies who are struggling to output enough DPS to get through dungeons.

Now I will have to try to run up to each scattered person in a dungeon and try to chase after them to heal them in front of me.

ZOS: Are you really thinking about newbies and casuals? Because it seems these changes are made with trials in mind. Trials are where a group of players are standing in front of the healer all nice and bundled up. Newbies aren't even going to trials. In dungeons, people are scattered everywhere and running like chickens with their heads off.

This is going to make healing an awful experience. New healers can cast a HoT ability and have it target someone in their group that needs healing.

I'm too casual to have ever given feedback on combat mechanics before, but I hope ZOS looks at this from the perspective of an actual casual and one who has 3 newbie friends who picked up the game just a couple of months ago.

Newbies run dungeons. Dungeons means pack mobs. Pack mobs will die faster with bigger AoE ticks. Less AoE ticks = less damage.

Newbies are worried about getting through dungeons fast. By the time any player is doing trials, they have been playing the game for long enough to know how to light attack.

ZOS: You're the one actually out of touch with the new player experience. Please, I urge you to reconsider these horrible changes. They are based off trial content as most dungeon mobs and bosses die before AoE cooldowns are up again.

New players: killing mob packs while questing out in the world & doing dungeons.
ZOS: Let's help out the new players by making combat changes based off long boss fights in trials. Surely everything new players are fighting are bosses that are standing still in one spot for a long time. Killing AoE damage ticks is going to help them.

Avoranti

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Except this ignores the people who literally CAN'T "git gud". People with disabilities or other health restrictions, people with bad ping/latency, people who simply cannot work out how to properly weave, people who get easily overwhelmed and thus have a hard time keeping up half a dozen DoTs/HoTs/buffs/debuffs, and any other number of limitations. Why do people always get up in arms when ZOS makes efforts to make the game more accessible to all players?

Point 1. Not other players problem. (I have a disability)
Point 2. Not other players problem. (Why does everyone have to suffer because 1 player has crap internet?)
Point 3. Not other players problem. Weaving is simple and some players will just never get it no matter how much you show them.
Point 4. Not other players problem. This is a personal problem that the individual needs to work out. Other players nor the game have any control over how a player feels.

To answer your question. I don’t think it’s about accessibility. It’s more about punishing players for being good while awarding those who either don’t care or can’t reach top tier. Some people just have to accept the fact that they will never reach some aspects of the game because of the skill, knowledge and time needed to reach that level. You don’t see Dark Soul styled games compromising and making an easy mode. No, some of those players just have to admit defeat and move on.

Borelock762

Good. Should level the playing field. All these *** running perfectly scripted macros with ani cancel might actually have to learn to play. Ive seen several streamers run a block cancels, and other ani cancels on everyone of their macros. I get hit with some questionable trash i usually whisper them and the response is one of two always.... i use a controller or they link their twitch lol. With the servers being better its even easier to see now. Aside from the desync that constantly happens cyro is almost playable.

DeathStalker

Avoranti wrote: »

To answer your question. I don’t think it’s about accessibility. It’s more about punishing players for being good while awarding those who either don’t care or can’t reach top tier.

It's not about "punishing" anyone. They stated very clearly people at the top are doing too much damage, way more damage than they ever intended to be done. So they are making an effort to bring the top-end damage in line with their goals.

Stamicka

Well, it's unfortunate that the devs are going down this route. The speed and complexity of ESO's combat is what made me enjoy it so much. I'll keep an eye out for the PTS notes, but it's pretty clear that vet/ end game players are unwelcomed.

SeaUnicorn

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

I am someone with nerve, tendon, and bone damage in my hands. I barely sit at 80k on my build I've worked a couple years trying to master(I have to push myself, that 80k is hard fought). Every patch adds changes that drop me well below that threshold and takes a lot of time and effort to bring it back up. I my not have perfect apm but my build relies heavily on steady light attack weaving. I hope this change doesn't drop me so low I can't come back. I know I can start utilizing different builds, but as I've said, it's taken me a long time to build something specifically for me. Don't kill it.

I am so very sorry you have to go through relearning your rotation and game play every other patch!

ZOS, please listen to this person, this is the type of player your should be catering the skill gap changes to: a player who wants to invest some time in learning the game, is able to put a specialized build together, but is physically unable to utilize certain techniques to maximize DPS or HPS or whatever it is they are doing for their role.

You are physically hurting a real person who pays real money to enjoy beloved game by meta flipping every patch.

colossalvoids

After reading all the comments the saddest part of all is that there are people thanking zenimax for giving them a chance at the endgame not realising that nothing really changes in that regard, positively at least. Also when endgame scene shrinks it's getting harder for everyone by default.

"Celling" would as always adapt and proceed as before, that's why it's called a "celling". We've been through those "bring em top and bottom closer" stages since forever a lot of times, nothing changed and with such narrow "solutions" it never will.

Iselin

I find it totally amazing that so many in this thread seem to be buying the idea that this hurts experts and helps lower end players. Just think it through.

Lower end players tend to use LA and HA MORE than expert animation canceling weavers because, a) they often don't want to bother with a rotation and/or b) their resource recovery is not as good as the expertly gold geared, high end potion using, recovery skill as a part of the rotation using better players, so they rely on LAs and HAs more when they "run dry" which happens more often for them.

Longer lasting DOTs and buffs with their included DPS nerf? All they do is save you one or two global cooldowns in a 20 second rotation. Who do you think is going to use that extra time more efficiently? The ones who struggle with basic LA weaving and rotation timing or those who have that down pat? And don't forget that global DPS nerf to DOTs. Advantage expert players.

It's a DPS nerf for those of you thinking that now you'll be able to do the vet runs you couldn't do before. YOU ARE NOT GETTING BUFFED.

Rude awakening incoming.

Sandman929

Couldn't you just ditch that disaster of an Brokensoul mythic and do something useful instead?

Magio_

Borelock762 wrote: »

Good. Should level the playing field. All these *** running perfectly scripted macros with ani cancel might actually have to learn to play. Ive seen several streamers run a block cancels, and other ani cancels on everyone of their macros. I get hit with some questionable trash i usually whisper them and the response is one of two always.... i use a controller or they link their twitch lol. With the servers being better its even easier to see now. Aside from the desync that constantly happens cyro is almost playable.

These are the people ZOS is catering to lol. Imagine believing the game needs a macro to weave light attacks with the massive leeway the game offers with the skill queue system.

"I lost, must be macros/cheats/hacks" is such a bad mindset to have and why people don't improve.

No need to whisper anyone. Just look at Combat Metrics. The tools are available for you to use and learn. Or if you whisper, ask for guidance nicely. Many people are willing to help. The problem is, and I say this from personal experience, the typical whispers from players with this mindset are always in bad faith and accusatory. e.g. "Nice hacks you got there.", "Reported", etc. It's difficult to want to help someone like that? And even when you try to respond they blocked you before sending the Whisper in the first place lol.

Wuuffyy

Gederic wrote: »

Looks like its time to finally sweep out the last remnants of the end game community.

I think this is a horrible idea. They are quite literally killing their end game community off in favor of people that won’t play for more than a few months before quitting forever.

Seems like a bad idea and there are plenty of examples out there to reflect upon as to why.

quote="SiAScORCH;c-7644384"]Well any of you who like playing werewolf are now irrelevant. WW uses light and a heavy attacks as primary damage, but it doesn't matter to you guys it seems.[/quote]

That’s my honest main concern right now. They’ve already butchered the scaling multiple times and damage on WW is hurting very much especially when compared to other class potential. This will be the nail in the coffin for Base Werewolf, that’s for sure.

Ascarl

This one really loves these changes.

BlueMoonRising

Looks like a bad idea and it doesn't benefit anyone except a couple angry forum posters so they can feel better about themselves.

nookji

Dear ZOS team... I really dont understand your goals anymore... This is a legendary MMO that is already 8 years old and you act like it is a game on beta status. Why do you flip the meta all the time? Always this "mimimi" the gap between veterans and new players is to big story. Where I started the game it was one of the most exiting experiances to master the game mechanics such as weaving and be able to see an increase of dps and therefore my personal progress, just the feeling to be see that i get better.

All the veterans playing the game for years, spending a lot of money in the crownstore, looking forward for all new chapters willing to pay for them etc. why do you always punish your long term fanbase?

And also think about the point that lower end players go for good sets to increase the damage, putting lot of work in to get it golden and after a few weeks you nerv it. Then they need to do a new set. This is frustrating for the whole community but hits the lower end players harder. The veterans to good damage also with weaker sets because of their skill that they learned and trained for years...

And now? Is it not enough that you change the game all few months no? Now you punish directly the part of your community that already spend thousends of hour in your game with the "reason" to make a smaller gap between the noobs and them..

You should really focus more on the serious problems of the game instead of doing completly uselss updates every few weeks that are just picking on your real long term community...

ssewallb14_ESO

My only immediate concern is dot pressure might be a bit too weak in PvP, seeing a return to the 1-shot or nothing style gameplay from the early game, which is overall a bit boring. It'll be a very tanky meta too if HoTs are left as they are, but I'm hoping they get the solid nerf they need anyway regardless of DoT changes.

Other than that looks good. Reducing the weaving delta is actually a great change.

hartzfear

Lazuli wrote: »

I'm so happy with these changes .. the ESO elitist won't be happy about it , but it gives us (avergae players) a chance to join vet runs .. etc.

This makes literally 0 sense, all players damage will be nerfed so casual or "average" players will do even less damage than now while "veteran" players will still be able to easily clear all content

Players like little_timmy_2007 will still only light attack and occasionally press a single button every 10 seconds in dungeons and now that will do even less damage, so it literally nerfs "casual" players the most.

Also, I dont get where the whole "you need high APM" comes from. You can easily get way more than enough DPS from playing a one-bar build while pressing 2 buttons a second (LA+skill), there is literally no need for more than 2 clicks per second.

neferpitou73

Lazuli wrote: »

I'm so happy with these changes .. the ESO elitist won't be happy about it , but it gives us (avergae players) a chance to join vet runs .. etc.

lol how is nerfing "ESO elists" going to suddenly make you more capable of doing vet runs?

Aldoss

DeathStalker wrote: »

TitanEidolon wrote: »

There are better approaches that don't diminish skills people have worked hard to develop. Make certain dots and buffs into toggles that drain resource over time. Introduce a set or mythic into the game that gives you a stacking buff for each consecutive ability used without a light attack (up to 5 or something) then when you light attack it multiplies the damage by the number of stacks. Then as long as you hit a LA every 5 abilities or so you're doing almost the same damage as a perfect weaver.

I don't mind making the floor higher, just don't do it by nerfing the players who have put a *lot* of time in.

I would happily support anything like this that would " raise the floor ". Just tired of people like me always being blamed for nerfs from a very loud and insulting group of individuals that always seem to be in a single crowd...High end players

I understand that society is terrible and it's hard to "take the leap" and appear vulnerable in front of other humans, but I hope you realize that stereotyping an entire group of people as you've done is only amplifying the hurt.

God knows there are some terrible people in this world and some of those people play this game. I've been laughed at, ridiculed, trolled, and embarrassed multiple times in Tamriel by them.

But you know what? I've also met some incredible people too! I've met people that patiently taught me vSS mechs. I've met entire raid groups that encouraged me as I made mistake after mistake main tanking my first vCR. I've met people who literally sat on discord and coached me through vMA FOR HOURS while I struggled, until I finally got success. I've met people who taught me about combat and why I sucked (still suck?) at PvP.

Not trying because 'all the sweaties are rude and insulting so I'm happy their efforts are getting nullified and nerfed' is only working to keep you from experiencing those amazing connections that I've had the privilege to experience.

You might get ridiculed... But you might also meet your next best friend. You won't know if you don't try.

MacRibs

I'm going to refrain from talking about the LA/HA changes until it hits the PTS and point to another topic instead.
Since one of the main focus of this patch is improving accessibility to the game’s combat by tuning ability effects (dots, buffs, and debuffs) could you please take a look and review some older existing sets? There are many that are in dire need of some simple changes to make them more viable, easy to use and understand.
I've made some suggestions on another post to some older sets here.

AdamLAD

So not only has zenimax destroyed skill based PvP. There now destroying skill based PvE. How about we now team up to overthrow the tyrants who clearly CLUELESS about there own game. What a farce, what an absolute joke. Stop catering to the skilless and encourage being better at the game. I HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU THINK THIS IS GOOD. Literally no other game on the planet rewards you for being bad. I'm absolutely speechless.

Sandman929

If the PvE enemies are turning away people who can't weave, why not just make them easier instead of making all players (even those who can't weave) weaker? Do the monsters have a powerful lobby?

Xandreia_

The players this is aimed to help will still spam light attacks and 1 low damage skill every now and again, it's not going to do anything apart from nerfing those who do endgame content, you are enabling the toxicity this is going to bring that will further divide the casuals from the endgamers. There is nothing good that can come of this change imo... if you can't do endgame/hard mode content then work at it, don't spoon feed people who don't want to help themselves!

Pevey

These changes will not reduce the gap. Bad and average players who never learned a rotation will still never learn a rotation.

The #1 way to raise the dps floor is to BOOST SUSTAIN ACROSS THE BOARD. Boosting sustain will reduce the gap because poor/average players suffer more from crap sustain, while top players manage it and are not dps-limited by it. This is especially true for new players who don't have sustain-related CP and passive skills yet. When you see them light attack spamming in dungeons, it is usually because they are out of resources.

glowtreeglass

Well that does it for me - they refuse to fix their broken game yet insist on nerfing combat to sell more copies/subs?
All they care about is money so I unsubscribed.

Jaimeh

My Disappointment Is Immeasurable And My Day Is Ruined

Nefas

Reasons + numbers given in the update are weirdge or make no sense.

Gap will not be reduced like this. I have more concerns for content + gameplay than the toning down of damage.

More big and turbulent changes, oh boy.

Waiting for July 11.