The card game is too complicated

Eporem

Lysette wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

Does the level of your character matter when playing this and the NPC's we play - how skillful are they knowing what to do with the cards. and also:) is there a reason why our account name shows as playing instead of the character's name we choose to play? (for roleplay I think it nicer to see a characters name when playing)

There is a ranking system in place - you start as a novice once you are a member of the Roister's Club and play on the upper floor against novice NPCs. You need 900 ranking points to get to the next rank which is Trainee. A win provides 45 or 90 points, I guess based on how well you did, but you get as well points, if you loose.

As far as their skill goes - I have seen both - really poor strategy and quite amazing one as well.

Thank you..

Lysette

AzuraFan wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

that might have been that contract agent I talked about - if your opponent has that agent active, your power points at the end of a turn are lost - they will not get converted. To gain information about any card just hover with your mouse over it. You can as well examine what cards are in your played and cool down stack by clicking on it. Furthermore downstairs in the gaming hall you can get a recap of the rules. The duration of the game shrinks with getting used to - the more you play, the faster you can make decisions.

I think you're right about the agent blocking the conversion to prestige. In my next game, I paid more attention to the NPC's agents and figured that out.

IMO, what's wrong with the game is the lack of guidance. There's one tutorial, which doesn't even include important stuff. For example, the treasury. I noticed the NPC was using it a lot. I hovered over it, read it, wasn't sure about its usefulness until I read the tips in this thread. Why isn't this sort of information included in the tutorial?

Instead of one tutorial, I think several smaller tutorials would have been better, with each focusing on only one or two aspects of the game. For example, start out by practicing playing a hand (meaning just selecting cards and playing them) and buying cards from the tavern. Then have another tutorial that explains patrons and the treasury. Then another one that talks about combos and agents, and also how to best use what's been taught already. And finally a tutorial that introduces basic strategies and tips.

Instead, we get one tutorial that doesn't cover everything and barely scratches the surface for what it does cover.

This might sound dumb, but the thing I struggled the most with in the tutorial was playing my hand. I didn't understand at first that I have to play every card because I was told that any power cards in my hand at the end of the turn are converted to prestige. I took that to mean that I should hold on to those cards and not play them. But no, I have to play every card.

Anyway, as I play over time (ToT definitely won't be my main activity but I'll play the occasional game), I'll catch on more. But due to the lack of guidance and information, I believe there will be a significant number of players who might have enjoyed the game, but won't give it a chance, which is a shame. They'll give up because they aren't introduced to the game in a way that gives them the information they need to play the darn thing and not feel lost.

(Yes, I'm sure there will be guides and videos on external sites, but ESO should be doing a better job of teaching players the game. It's as if they don't really care if anybody plays it.)

@AzuraFan I found it helpful for myself, to get a better understanding of what those decks of certain patrons are meant to do - they all have a specific purpose, which comes especially into play with combos, where you play (or activate) several cards of the same patron in the same turn. While all provide as well gold, the main focus for each deck is as follows:

Hlaalu - acquiring cards without gold cost
Pelin - gaining power and hindering the opponent power to prestige conversion
Duke of Crows - keeping a turn going - drawing more cards from the stack than normal in a turn
Celarius - manipulation of the tavern contents, changing which cards will be drawn next from the stack
treasury - converting 1 gold cards into 2 gold writs

The NPC AI makes heavy use of Duke and Celarius cards - this is why it can sometimes create really long sequences in a turn, which seem like magic. You will be able to do it like that as well, once you got more experience with combos, but keep this classification in mind - the decks of any patron are build around a certain purpose or goal to achieve.

SilverBride

What happens after you hit trainee? Are there more NPCs to play? I played a random casual game last night (I won!) and I'm very close to level 2 but don't know what to do after that. Does it open more quests as we gain levels/ranks?

I never thought to try to play the novice NPCs again. Is this even possible?

Lysette

SilverBride wrote: »

What happens after you hit trainee? Are there more NPCs to play? I played a random casual game last night (I won!) and I'm very close to level 2 but don't know what to do after that. Does it open more quests as we gain levels/ranks?

I never thought to try to play the novice NPCs again. Is this even possible?

It is - I do that, but you just gain those 45 ranking points for winning like before. I guess we are supposed to venture out and play somewhere else in Tamriel as trainees.

But I want to practice my combo strategy with those novice NPCs a little more before I'm doing that. I'm still a little slow, when I focus on combos and to win with a huge margin, it takes me like 20-30 minutes to complete a game.

SilverBride

Lysette wrote: »

I guess we are supposed to venture out and play somewhere else in Tamriel as trainees.

Oh so there are other NPCs we can play in other locations?

PurpleScroll

SilverBride wrote: »

Oh so there are other NPCs we can play in other locations?

There's many. All main cities in zones have them. Look for the crown icon within town/cities.

SilverBride

PurpleScroll wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Oh so there are other NPCs we can play in other locations?

There's many. All main cities in zones have them. Look for the crown icon within town/cities.

Awesome! Thank you.

AzuraFan

Lysette wrote: »

Hlaalu - acquiring cards without gold cost
Pelin - gaining power and hindering the opponent power to prestige conversion
Duke of Crows - keeping a turn going - drawing more cards from the stack than normal in a turn
Celarius - manipulation of the tavern contents, changing which cards will be drawn next from the stack
treasury - converting 1 gold cards into 2 gold writs

The NPC AI makes heavy use of Duke and Celarius cards - this is why it can sometimes create really long sequences in a turn, which seem like magic. You will be able to do it like that as well, once you got more experience with combos, but keep this classification in mind - the decks of any patron are build around a certain purpose or goal to achieve.

@Lysette Thanks, this is very helpful and I've bookmarked the thread for reference.

However, unless they reduce the time it takes to play a game, or increase the rewards, I won't be playing much. Right now, the time vs. reward equation doesn't cut it, and I don't enjoy the game enough to play it for its own sake.

Marcusorion1

Thanks for the ongoing supply of information - it's greatly appreciated

Learning more ( for better or worse ) with every match vs an NPC. My attempts vs other players ( for that daily ) have been mostly losses but still, a learning experience - although it may not be as much a " oh, so that's how they did it " as " omg , how did that happen ? " !

Some of those are slowly making sense in my addled brain. I do wish rewards were more balanced towards the time involved ( and had more rewarding features towards the rest of the game, somehow ) but I will plug away as my gaming time permits.

I am not ready to declare myself a ToT-head yet, but am looking at brochures for Tot-heads Anonymous should I choose that path in my life choices

Lysette

Marcusorion1 wrote: »

Thanks for the ongoing supply of information - it's greatly appreciated

Learning more ( for better or worse ) with every match vs an NPC. My attempts vs other players ( for that daily ) have been mostly losses but still, a learning experience - although it may not be as much a " oh, so that's how they did it " as " omg , how did that happen ? " !

Some of those are slowly making sense in my addled brain. I do wish rewards were more balanced towards the time involved ( and had more rewarding features towards the rest of the game, somehow ) but I will plug away as my gaming time permits.

I am not ready to declare myself a ToT-head yet, but am looking at brochures for Tot-heads Anonymous should I choose that path in my life choices

YEah I made a thread about the beginner rewards - but no one seems to be interested to comment there.

SilverBride

I am trying to work on the Achievement "Novice No More". It says to complete the quest "The Tournament Begins" but I can't find this quest giver anywhere and there isn't enough online about it yet.

This is one of my biggest issues with this card game. There is not enough information given to lead players on what they should do next. We are just left out in the dark on so much of it.

Sly80

SilverBride wrote: »

I am trying to work on the Achievement "Novice No More". It says to complete the quest "The Tournament Begins" but I can't find this quest giver anywhere and there isn't enough online about it yet.

This is one of my biggest issues with this card game. There is not enough information given to lead players on what they should do next. We are just left out in the dark on so much of it.

Keep checking in with the main guy in the gaming hall - don't wait for a white arrow. He will let you know when you are ready for the first tournament.

SilverBride

Sly80 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I am trying to work on the Achievement "Novice No More". It says to complete the quest "The Tournament Begins" but I can't find this quest giver anywhere and there isn't enough online about it yet.

This is one of my biggest issues with this card game. There is not enough information given to lead players on what they should do next. We are just left out in the dark on so much of it.

Keep checking in with the main guy in the gaming hall - don't wait for a white arrow. He will let you know when you are ready for the first tournament.

See that is a problem. There should be a quest marker to let you know. The achievement says you have to complete that quest so if it's a quest it should have a marker.

Resdayn_Fyr

It took a couple of games for it to really click with me, but now I'm hooked. "Easy to learn, hard to master" was their goal, and I think they achieved it pretty well. While I now have a solid grasp of the basics, I'll be learning new strategies for a long time to come.

Blutengel

I had no idea what I was doing when I started but I learned the most by actually playing and not watching/reading guides.

Lysette

Blutengel wrote: »

I had no idea what I was doing when I started but I learned the most by actually playing and not watching/reading guides.

yeah, the game opens up when you start constructing combos and think deeper about the contents of certain decks and how you could combine them and form a strategy. Then considering which downsides any such strategy has, where are it's advantages, and where are they vulnerable and so on. This is quite interesting and best experienced, not just on paper.

langewapper

i played this game 4 times against npc had 3 wins by just clicking cards at random
and not nowing what i was doing or how this game works
if you do that in real live card games you will loose always (poker or bridge)
so it is a random based game like one arm bandits in casino for me
until zos (or sombody els) will write some real tutorial i wont playing that again
and i also dont now which keyboard keys to use or what they doing

so waiting for some real usefull tutorial