What is a good way to LEARN to tank?

Snow_White

b101uk wrote: »

Snow_White wrote: »

The way ESO is currently, defensive sets are basically a waste. You’ll typically focus on buff sets (Yolnahkriin, Saxhleel, Elemental Catalyst, Powerful Assault, Worm, Crimson Oath/Alkosh, War Machine).

based on pugs and doing daily dungeons, I couldn't disagree more, most of the time in such cases the healer in the group will be a complete and utter waste of time, and the tank will need to be 100% self-sufficient, so what little the healer dose do can be concentrated on the DD's.

you then have the greater amounts of other team members that wipe, which can because of the diversity of the team with no, low and high CP mix, and even high CP groups DD and healer can wipe when they don't respect some boss, and if you are THAT tank who relays on the rest of the team to buff you then you are probably not going to be able to res any of them if you have sets on that buff others rather than yourself by getting you close to the 33k resistance cap and that help you survive as a tank, so you can take the damage while resing people, or can take the damage from miss-steps while learning the mechanics of a dungeon.

I agree with everything you said, but…

I’m not going to waste my time and resources optimizing for groups that suck.

If the group is that terrible and shows no capacity to improve I’m probably going to either start DPS-ing if I can or drop group and re-queue if I can’t.

Bitter_Apple21

Okay, just crossed 50. Geared up with mix blue/purple, Ebon, Warrior P, Chudan. Traits are random, just what picked up, but enchants on gear are all health.

Still have 17 attr pts to spend (ya, I know ). Health 42k, resistance 34k, no food buffs. Thinking to put more (not all) into stamina for now as only have one piece with sturdy.

Confidence got shaken when doing Dread Cellar at level 49, died twice. Definitely about the mechanics. Other base dungeons - pre level 50 - could almost stand in front of last boss with no issue. Be interesting to see if things change in those dungeons now, but from what I've read and heard from you folks, it's the mechanics of the DLC dungeons - just harder.

Question - since I'm gonna run if a few more times for Crimson - at that last fight should I be going thru the portal to knock down those spires or just leave to DPS? Brain says if just me alone with boss while they go away not gonna do much with low DPS, but if all go, it didn't seem to do any harm?

Fennwitty

You can't remain in the room during last fight if the rest of the group uses portals. You'll get the 'joining encounter in progress' thing and you'll be forced in. Better if you can to use the front door to avoid lost time, but not critical since you'll get pulled in.

Bitter_Apple21

@Fennwitty

Thx. So far, been going to the portal. Saw a few monsters, so decided to continue in case a member dies, figure help bring down the spire and deal with any needed taunting of critters. And it did not seem that the main boss was getting any "buff" from our departure.

MindOfTheSwarm

Play a Nightblade slot sword and board. Then tank veteran Cloudrest on hard mode. Throw yourself in at the deep end haha. If you can tank that, you’re done.

Bitter_Apple21

Folks

Okay, been running the DLC sets on normal, and yes, I can see (more than when I was running them as DPSs) it is about the mechanics. Maybe it is because of the health and armor, but I seem to have a few more seconds, etc to actually watch what is going on - or maybe it is I should have been a tank from the beginning.

It truly is all about the mechanics.

Beyond that, do seem to be getting a handle on some of the tanking "rotation" or things. Imperial Prison, we had gone to the point of the 4 shadows stage, and the DDs and healer team were wiped (did I miss something as the tank?)

When that registered, was uncertain whether to keep plugging away at the shadows (as I have seen other tanks do when as a DPS, I was wiped and watching) or bulk up the resistance and go heal the healer and then go back to taunting and plugging away at the shadows.

Did the bulk up and res one player.

It seemed to work that way for in a couple of shakes the rest of the group was res'd and we were full again. That got me wondering if one of the CP points I should spend is on that 25% faster res branch - probably if I have the spare points.

Yes/No?

Question on that portal jump with the final boss - is there any "timing" of when to jump into the portal after he launches himself into the air? I mean if I do it instantly i.e. the portal is right beside me, is there a chance I land back again even before he launches his attack, and then get wiped?

Fennwitty

Unless you're a hybrid DPS/tank, in challenging content there are very few situations where the tank alone has a chance of finishing off a fight.

If the boss is ALMOST, REALLY CLOSE to dead sometimes you can. But a "real" tank's DPS tend to be trivial. Rezzing party members is almost always the correct decision, good on you for toughening yourself up first.

Rez speed boosts are sometimes used in groups where a lot of death is expected, but normally on a healer or DPS. When everyone's dead but the tank, the fight's usually gone completely wrong. It can be faster to just let the tank die also to restart the combat.

If your boosting rez speed would interfere with other tanking abilities or bonuses, you wouldn't bother using it. A dead tank is far less useful than a live one at the end with normal rez speed.

Xynode is my main source for this type of question, I would simply be repeating him. Only thing to note about his description of Imperial City Prison is it's old, and since then there is no longer a 'synergy' you have to activate to survive the fall. The fall takes a chunk of hp so try and heal up before going into the portals.

Entering the portals ASAP is not a problem.

https://xynodegaming.com/imperial-city-prison/

If you don't have the Undaunted 28m taunt, ICP final is one fight where you'll really miss the flexibility. Using the ranged taunt you can maintain taunt on all 4 clones easily.

Bitter_Apple21

@Fennwitty

Thanks. And yes, when I started getting CP rated on the other toons, I had been using Alcast.

I have been spending more time recently however on the Xynode site, as I like their description of the mechanics of the fight better than Alcast.

And learning again. My "fixation" on the ranged taunt - yes I do have it - had been solely at the start of a fight. Never considered doing it mid fight like on the shadows.

Still learning.......

MEBengalsFan2001

Anyone looking to learn how to tank, first get your tank gear from the normal dungeons/trials. Figure out before hand how you will build your tank.

Once you have your gear situated than you can start down the road of learning how to tank.

I would start off with Vet Fungal Grotto first. Than move into Spindle Clutch I, Crypts of Hear I, Banish Cells I....etc...

Play all of the level I dungeons. Than move into the other dungeons such as Vaults of Madness, Arx Corinium, Blessed Crucible, etc...

Once you feel confident running those go and complete the level II dungeons. Once you get through those than you can slowly work your way through the DLC dungeons.

I do recommend at least having all purple gear on your tank. You don't need gold gear but if you do make it gold it will make completing content much easier.

Bitter_Apple21

Folks

Working on attributes a bit. Sitting at 42k health, and all except one piece of gear is buffing health. I have 17 unassigned attributes and yes, I know that the gear enchantment might make up some of the difference, but I am trying to find out something for when I assign them.

A few websites state that every time you level up, all attributes drop by 120 or so, and assigning an attribute bumps that attribute up by 110-120.

Okay, if I am already at lvl 50, is it correct to say that all the 'drops' due to leveling have been applied, and that the unassigned attributes I have will only increase the value when I decide where to put them.

MEBengalsFan2001

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Folks

Working on attributes a bit. Sitting at 42k health, and all except one piece of gear is buffing health. I have 17 unassigned attributes and yes, I know that the gear enchantment might make up some of the difference, but I am trying to find out something for when I assign them.

A few websites state that every time you level up, all attributes drop by 120 or so, and assigning an attribute bumps that attribute up by 110-120.

Okay, if I am already at lvl 50, is it correct to say that all the 'drops' due to leveling have been applied, and that the unassigned attributes I have will only increase the value when I decide where to put them.

Jewelry I go two arcane and one robust. I use enchantment that reduce block.

My primary bar I use a infused 1h weapon & a reinforced shield and for the 1H enchantment I use the one that lower enemies weapon/spelll damage. Trait on the sword is infused.

My secondary bar I use a infused frost staff with the enchantment that reduces enemies resistance.
Enchantment on the gear I go for the tri stat all the way around.

When it comes to gear traits I go reinforced on chest and shoulders. Infused on head and legs. Block Reduction on hands and wait. Reduction of dodge roll and sprinting on the feet.

For attribute points I put them into health until I hit 40K. After that I try to get my magika about 1-2 lower than what my stamina is both 24-25K roughly.

I use tri food and tri pots when I run dungeons.

Fennwitty

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Folks

Working on attributes a bit. Sitting at 42k health, and all except one piece of gear is buffing health. I have 17 unassigned attributes and yes, I know that the gear enchantment might make up some of the difference, but I am trying to find out something for when I assign them.

A few websites state that every time you level up, all attributes drop by 120 or so, and assigning an attribute bumps that attribute up by 110-120.

Okay, if I am already at lvl 50, is it correct to say that all the 'drops' due to leveling have been applied, and that the unassigned attributes I have will only increase the value when I decide where to put them.

I don't know the exact numbers but yes, once you're level 50 CP 160 there's no more scaling stuff or outleveling gear going on to worry about. Ability scores settle down.

And remember you can reset your attributes at any time at a respec shrine for some gold.

You could also retain multiple armory slots for purposes of an easy respec.

Using gold armor enchantments for stat boosts can be much more impactful than the 64 ability points you get. Gold enchants work even on lower-color items.

Snow_White

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Folks

Working on attributes a bit. Sitting at 42k health, and all except one piece of gear is buffing health. I have 17 unassigned attributes and yes, I know that the gear enchantment might make up some of the difference, but I am trying to find out something for when I assign them.

A few websites state that every time you level up, all attributes drop by 120 or so, and assigning an attribute bumps that attribute up by 110-120.

Okay, if I am already at lvl 50, is it correct to say that all the 'drops' due to leveling have been applied, and that the unassigned attributes I have will only increase the value when I decide where to put them.

What I do is eat food, then set my health to around 39k with my main armour sets on. The remaining points I split between stam and magica. The main thing is you want your stamina higher than your magica so that hitting a synergy restores stamina,

I use Sugar Skulls, but recommend the free Crown Fortifying Meal as you’re levelling.

IMO, don’t gold out any gear until you’re in end gear sets. Purple is good enough for now.

Bitter_Apple21

@Snow_White

So to be clear, you run your health (39k) after food buffs (and with Armor on)?

That helps set some fence posts for me. Thanks much.

Right now, without food, I'm at 41k or 42k, but my health buffs on gear and jewelry total about 6.5k (included in 42k).

So if I convert all or a good chunk of the gear enchants from Health to stam or something, and use the crown food (I think it is something like 6k), I can still get back up to 40k or so. And so far - but non vet - 40k has seemed to work.

Then I can look at my unassigned attribute points for more Stam or Mag.

My focus has been on the other two recently (particularly Stam), as someone told me that I need to pay more attention to blocking in the Vet dungeons as an unblocked boss hit there will be much worse than the base dungeons, and I wanted to have that Stamina "float" until I learn when I can drop my shield and regen vs keeping the shield up all the time.

Thanks much.

Bitter_Apple21

@Fennwitty

Thanks. As I was going thru options, that finally crystalized on me. The enchants on my gear are adding about 6k to health, but the 17 points might add only 2k or so total. In fact between the enchants and the gear attributes, the character attributes are a very small portion of things total.

SIde note - started doing a bit more of the DLC, and watching the Xynode videos, and truly there simply seem to be more mechanics on the DLC side than the base dungeon side, even on normal.

Given that, other than watching the videos, likely end up just running any one DLC a few times to get the mechanics down, before going vet.

Bitter_Apple21

Maybe starting to get the handle on a few things. Ran City 2 on vet - and when we hit the dragon Ash Titan, I remembered as a DPS that he would spawn some spinning elementals or something. As the DPS, I would try to block or just get out of the way, never really saw what I ended up doing as a tank.

Someone earlier commented that I should use the inner fire taunt not just to range taunt the main boss in a fight, but could use it for the other spawns. That suggestion came back to me with this boss, and tried it on the two spinning elementals.

WOW.

Suddenly had the three of them in my face. I guess that is what I am supposed to do, is get, bring, taunt or whatever, all the targets into my face so that the DPSs can do their stuff.

First time health went below 25k in a while - I think it was some dragon AOE damage - so I just side stepped and kept at it.

Maybe finally learning some techniques.

Thanks all.

Bitter_Apple21

Folks

Got a question about tanking in trials. Still not part of a guild, but started running vet DLCs the other day.

Ran vet Icereach, and wiped on the first boss. Did the research and it was basically, "...you cannot stand toe to toe and tank when the guy gets enraged..."

Okay, learnt that mechanic. Ran it a few more times with no issue.

The last boss, we got her down to low 100k or so at least 3-4 times, and all got wiped. Then someone helped me by simply telling me that I (or someone) needs to bash or interrupt one of the witches in the corners to break their beam to the one in the middle.

Did that and we finished.

If I call those "tricks" i.e. mechanics, is being a tank in trials more about performing better as a "tank" or is it just more and harder mechanics?

Obviously you have to tank throughout the rest of the dungeon, but I am trying to get a handle on when "tanking" practice/learning is done and it then becomes more about the mechanics to get thru a dungeon.

hexnotic

not sure if anyone already said this but… don’t pull the boss out of your dds aoes if possible! they are expensive

Bitter_Apple21

Yeah.

I was advised once to not pull a target out of the DPS AOE once at the end of one dungeon when I was asking for comments.

I don't remember the circumstances however, but I know that I have been trying to work on my chaining. Don't think it was a "boss" though.

Still need to check if I have the "settings" right on my screen so that I can see the AOE of our DPSs.

On trash mobs, I do know that there are times I am so focused on trying to chain up everyone (the mobs) that with the speed of some of the DPSs, they are already "there" at the ranged target by the time I am pressing the button.

Those times I feel a bit bad.

Fennwitty

Tanking is pretty much always the same.

• Don't die
• Keep aggro
• Position enemies

Mechanics have to be done in addition to those tasks based on the fight.

And Icereach, pretty much everybody who possibly can should be keeping an eye out to interrupt. They all have to be interrupted not just one.

Many times you'll get DPS players who appear to think tanks are the only ones who have to do mechanics. Everybody has to do mechanics. Sometimes the tank can cover multiple people's worth but they shouldn't have to.

The difference between dungeons and trials is the number of people. Your group's 3 times larger and there are correspondingly more enemies most of the time.

In most trial groups there are two tanks. Some groups prefer to run trials with only a single tank -- or even three -- but the game's default assumption is there's two of them.

This is broken down into "main tank" and "off tank" so the tanks aren't conflicting with each other and both trying to taunt to main boss.

Once you have multiple different people with taunt, there's a possibility of 'overtaunt'. If different people are taunting the same target in a very short window over and over, effectively the target stops paying attention and does whatever the heck it wants for a while. If both tanks are trying to taunt the main boss, it will get overtaunted and then attack randomly as if nobody taunted at all.



The "main tank" tends to be beefier and keep the attention of the "main" boss in a given boss fight. Many times there's a single big boss, and then several dangerous adds as well. The main tank usually focuses on the main boss, the off tank usually handles taunting and positioning the other dangerous adds.

If the "main tank" goes down, the "off tank" has to jump in and keep the main boss busy until the "main tank" is back on their feet. The most difficult thing to learn how to be an "off tank" is to repress your urge to taunt the boss when the other tank is handling it :P

Personally I think the "main tank" tends to have an easier job in most fights. They can mainly focus on keeping themselves alive and the boss taunted, while the "off tank" has to run around herding monsters and doing other mechanics.

But the exact things expected of main and off varies trial to trial, fight to fight. Best thing to do is read through a guide before going into a trial unless you've explicitly joined a "teaching run" that some guilds hold to get people used to different content.

You'll also be expected to coordinate your worn gear with the other trial tank, and even with healers at times.

The most common tank set is Claws of Yolnahkriin from the Sunspire trial. Its 5-piece is "When you taunt an enemy, you give yourself and 11 group members Minor Courage for 15 seconds, increasing your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 215. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds."

It's a waste if both tanks are wearing Yoln -- a single tank taunting continually can keep almost 100% uptime. So ideally people bring a change of clothing.

Fennwitty

Many trial groups running on normal will try to run with a single main tank. A lot of the older trials are easier than the newer ones, just like older dungeons tend to be easier than the newer ones.

You won't tend to find guides for "single tank" trials. The strategy tends to just be "tank taunts everything and positions it, everyone else does as much damage as possible."

Again though, on hard/vet content, that usually doesn't fly for most groups.

Bitter_Apple21

@Fennwitty @Snow_White @Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks. Knew that there were more people in trials, but had not made the connection that this probably meant simply more targets or adds or mechs to deal with (more chaos). Thought it might have been just tougher bosses.

I had noticed in some of the build research the subject of main and off-tank, so thanks for explaining. Also just dawned on me, that since I am currently limited to PUGs and there is - so far - not much team "coordination" going on that I notice. However, with 12 people, I can imagine that coordination is much more important.

I am not on this "discord" thing. Does that also tend to be a necessity for running trials?

I would also guess that with 12 people, the actual "running" of a trial is a "scheduled" thing since all 12 people (unless a guild has a "PUG" setup of some sort), have to be available at the same time. Not something that I can log into some random day after work......

Your point about everyone should have the task to interrupt also triggered a question. If in a battle, I range taunt a boss (whether they are mobile or not - to come towards me), am I correct in then assuming that while he/she is "taunted' but I am not attacking, any attack from a DPS will NOT trigger aggro and have the boss turn onto the attacker?

In essence, other than those cases where a boss (as part of a mechanic) randomly attacks another player while under taunt with me, am I correct in assuming while under taunt the DPSs or Healer should actually not be worried about receiving damage from that boss?

I understand that in mobs or with adds, until I can get them under range taunt, they might receive damage, but your suggestion earlier about using range taunt while in a battle (I think it was vCOA2) has got me thinking that if I can do that well, the DPSs and Healer actually should have nothing to worry about.

Do I have this correct?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Fennwitty @Snow_White @Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks. Knew that there were more people in trials, but had not made the connection that this probably meant simply more targets or adds or mechs to deal with (more chaos). Thought it might have been just tougher bosses.

I had noticed in some of the build research the subject of main and off-tank, so thanks for explaining. Also just dawned on me, that since I am currently limited to PUGs and there is - so far - not much team "coordination" going on that I notice. However, with 12 people, I can imagine that coordination is much more important.

I am not on this "discord" thing. Does that also tend to be a necessity for running trials?

I would also guess that with 12 people, the actual "running" of a trial is a "scheduled" thing since all 12 people (unless a guild has a "PUG" setup of some sort), have to be available at the same time. Not something that I can log into some random day after work......

Your point about everyone should have the task to interrupt also triggered a question. If in a battle, I range taunt a boss (whether they are mobile or not - to come towards me), am I correct in then assuming that while he/she is "taunted' but I am not attacking, any attack from a DPS will NOT trigger aggro and have the boss turn onto the attacker?

In essence, other than those cases where a boss (as part of a mechanic) randomly attacks another player while under taunt with me, am I correct in assuming while under taunt the DPSs or Healer should actually not be worried about receiving damage from that boss?

I understand that in mobs or with adds, until I can get them under range taunt, they might receive damage, but your suggestion earlier about using range taunt while in a battle (I think it was vCOA2) has got me thinking that if I can do that well, the DPSs and Healer actually should have nothing to worry about.

Do I have this correct?

Vet Trials are best done with an organized group with some sort of vocal communication, discord is the standard. If you are serious about tanking trials, get discord, and join a guild that does trials. Normal trials typically dont require voice com, but doesnt mean it isnt useful.

You will see a lot of requests in Craglorn for pickup trial groups, and tanks are in pretty high demand. That is not a bad way to get your feet wet. Start with normal until you are very comfortable. The crag dungeons are the easiest AA, HRC, SO. If you want to get into vet trials, yes you can do pickup groups, but they are always a roll of the dice. You are much better off in a guild for Vet.

Whatever you interest, there is always a guild to fit your needs. Want to raid 6 nights a week, there is a guild doing that. Want a casual group that raids once a week, there is a guild doing that as well. Some guilds have open runs every night of the week, that people can sign up for, first come first served (most use discord to do this, get discord). Most guilds also use some sort of achievement/tag system. It can sound intimidating or elitist at first, but its actually very useful. As you clear trials and get the achievements, you will get tags so people can see what you are able to clear. For harder trials on vet, typically there are Prog Groups (progression) that meet 1-2 nights a week. That way everyone is learning together, most guilds will have a few people in a prog group that know the fight.

As to your other question, a DPS doing damage will not steal taunt from you. Some bosses have mechanics that ignore taunts. So to say that a DPS will not take damage while you have a boss taunted is not true, but the boss shouldnt turn around and one shot them if you have them taunted. A lot of bosses do have mechanics that need to be dealt with by the rest of the group, even though the boss is taunted. Some of them will even one shot a non-tank if they dont respect them, but usually, they are pretty obvious. Not your problem if your DPS stands in stupid as they say.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks.

Been considering the Crag stuff, as it seemed to be the only way to see if I am close to ready.

Of the three, would you care to suggest the "easiest" one?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks.

Been considering the Crag stuff, as it seemed to be the only way to see if I am close to ready.

Of the three, would you care to suggest the "easiest" one?

Normal AA or HRC. Probably splitting hairs. Gun to my head, AA is easier. SO came out a little after and was def a step up in difficultly. I would do both AA and HRC several times each on normal before you do anything else. But again, if you really want to be a good trial tank, you need to find a guild.

I believe there is video of Bastion (companion) tanking HRC. Its a pretty low bar on normal, but with pugs, a dead tank can certainly cause a lot of havoc.

Bitter_Apple21

Folks

Okay, been doing a bunch of normal DLC runs and a few vet DLC runs. As you folks have advised, they are a good test of tanking. For me, they are both a good test of tanking as well as good lessons in "heavy" mechanics.

I think @Snow_White mentioned (a few posts back) that with some recent changes to damage in ESO, if I am comfortable tanking on normal DLC runs, then normal trials should be manageable.

Are Craglorn trials different or are the normal Craglorn trials compariable at all to the normal or vet DLC runs?

Or is there simply no comparison and they are just plainly different?

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks. I have been starting the search for a guild, but the only things I have found are

1) in game "advertisements" in the chat box or
2) some external website about guild finder https://www.eso-database.com/en/guild-finder/

Is this process simply trial and error with "selecting" a guild or are there certain keywords that experience says are better to search for?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Folks

Okay, been doing a bunch of normal DLC runs and a few vet DLC runs. As you folks have advised, they are a good test of tanking. For me, they are both a good test of tanking as well as good lessons in "heavy" mechanics.

I think @Snow_White mentioned (a few posts back) that with some recent changes to damage in ESO, if I am comfortable tanking on normal DLC runs, then normal trials should be manageable.

Are Craglorn trials different or are the normal Craglorn trials compariable at all to the normal or vet DLC runs?

Or is there simply no comparison and they are just plainly different?

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks. I have been starting the search for a guild, but the only things I have found are

1) in game "advertisements" in the chat box or
2) some external website about guild finder https://www.eso-database.com/en/guild-finder/

Is this process simply trial and error with "selecting" a guild or are there certain keywords that experience says are better to search for?

Yep, trial and error. Some guilds suck, others are great. You can have 5, and if one doesn't meet your liking, move on. Do your role well, and guild invites will come. I have never used a zone chat add or a guild finder to get a guild, but not saying they cant be useful. Been in dozens of good ones over the years.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks.

If I may ask then, how did you find out about any particular guild? From game friends or just asking dungeon PUG players?

Bitter_Apple21

Found it. There is an in game guild finder.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks.

If I may ask then, how did you find out about any particular guild? From game friends or just asking dungeon PUG players?

Once you are in a guild, it tends to snowball. Most serious end game PVEers are in multiple trial guilds. People will often post in all their guilds if they are looking for fills for dungeons/trials, you join, you say hi, you dont suck, you get invited. Haha.