ESO PVP is the worst PVP I have ever encountered in 20 years of online video games.

McTaterskins

Maybe try adding vamp stage 3 Undeath and see if it helps. You'll feel a sustain hit though.

Could also try slotting flare and maybe psijic ult on your defensive bar to stack up some damage reduction.

Based on the stats you posted, most of that armor/resist is pretty much toast depending on who's attacking you. I've got a couple toons that land full buffed/debuffed at like 35-38k pen.

McTaterskins

Also - while you have fiber etc. etc. - What is your upload? This matters.

Remember, information is being sent back and forth to the server and most things are no longer on client side. Through testing we discovered that up speed/bandwidth matters. At least as far as it worked out for us. (3 people in the house play at a time at random)

OBJnoob

I read as much as I could.... didn't want to say something somebody already said. It seems like the original poster is new to the game, yes? Maybe he's trying to break free when he's only immobilized? I used to make that mistake.

Also, something someone else did say... maybe you're too defensive? With stats like those I wonder how much power you have towards self healing? It's rather counter-intuitive, but sometimes you need more "damage" to survive longer.

katorga

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Consider key binding break free to the scroll wheel, this way you can perform rapid inputs ensuring you will break free.

I have had scroll wheel binding kick me from the server with a "too many messages per second" error. (bash...insane .3s, no movement penalty, no block penalty, just saying).

What I've noticed from the players that wreck me, and make me say "wow, impressive":

1. They move faster than everyone else, 100% of the time.
2. They momentum jump
3. They stay inside your character model, making it almost impossible to target them as they strafe around in tight circles
4. One skill and a med attack weave will hit me with a cc and 5-6 sources of damage, then into execute.
5. That will wreck a 40K health player with normal armor ratings in a 1-2 seconds.

I think super high movement speed desyncs the defender's client giving the attacker a huge advantage.

Due to server lag, and this is completely different from ping or latency, can you really be sure that defensive procs like Undeath, or CP are really working, every time? No. It makes breakfree unreliable. The more dynamic, or changing your character sheet is, the more punished by server lag you are.

Magio_

Raideen wrote: »

I'd love to know how I get 6 attacks on me in one second by ONE player.

I'd love to see you post a CMX or Log of 6 different attacks hitting you in one GCD window from one player.

Vaoh

Magio_ wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

I'd love to know how I get 6 attacks on me in one second by ONE player.

I'd love to see you post a CMX or Log of 6 different attacks hitting you in one GCD window from one player.

Probably talking about a stealthed DW Heavy Attack (2 hits) + Caluurion proc (1 hit) + Incap Strike (1 hit) + enchants. And then a Whirling Blades to execute.

On the right build that is enough to kill a 35-40k Health player in about a second. Oh and even if they instantly break free from the first burst of attacks, they can’t dodge your execute lol. Some real solid pvp we got

Fennwitty

You're not wrong really. Crowd control then execute before the target can do anything is the basic PvP formula in this game.

Mainly about avoiding it in the first place or prebuffing at just the right time.

Sorceror is pretty fragile on the best of days. I'd suggest getting used to the (very strange at times) PvP in ESO on a tougher class with heavy armor.

And start off by always holding block and frequently dodge rolling. Permablock isn't generally a long term strategy but it will give you time to see what's happening.

If someone's approaching you, roll dodge immediately to avoid their opener. If someone's attacking you at range, roll dodge immediately to avoid their followup. Use terrain to block line of sight (doesn't work on PvE, works wonders in PvP). Just rules of thumb for getting the hang of things.

Rhaegar75

Fennwitty wrote: »

You're not wrong really. Crowd control then execute before the target can do anything is the basic PvP formula in this game.

Mainly about avoiding it in the first place or prebuffing at just the right time.

Sorceror is pretty fragile on the best of days. I'd suggest getting used to the (very strange at times) PvP in ESO on a tougher class with heavy armor.

And start off by always holding block and frequently dodge rolling. Permablock isn't generally a long term strategy but it will give you time to see what's happening.

If someone's approaching you, roll dodge immediately to avoid their opener. If someone's attacking you at range, roll dodge immediately to avoid their followup. Use terrain to block line of sight (doesn't work on PvE, works wonders in PvP). Just rules of thumb for getting the hang of things.

Totally this: I would give the exact same advice to anyone joining ESO PvP now. /bow

For me personally it is also the realization that somehow I could/can not play any class I want...my StamCRos were utterly rubbish even when StamCros were super mega uber meta!! Why? It didn't fit the playstyle I enjoy and comes natural to me.

If you play sorcs and you don't exploit their great mobility maybe you need to shift to a class that would facilitate the tank or bruiser playstyle?

MEBengalsFan2001

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

40612 Spell resist
38302 Physcial resist
3236 Crit resist
35.8k health

and I am dying inside of 2 seconds. No hyperbole, no joke.

One of my Mag Sorc PvP builds has 23k spell penetration w/ 6k spell power. With Malacath I'll do 25k damage in less than 1 second against 40k spell resist. Burst sync with Power Overload + Haunting Curse + Crystal Frag proc combo and then finish you with a Streak + Endless Fury. To give you an idea of the PvE equivalent, on a 6 mil dummy I burst ~80k damage in 1s.

Are you block streaking / healing? If not, you should get in the habit of using block. It's stronger than any set in the game.

Maybe with the update to our weapon damage the devs need to work again on adjusting battle spirit. Your rotation when executed perfectly will kill someone in 1 second because with battle spirt you still do around 30-40K damage and that is where most players health sits at.

Maybe battle spirit healing out should be decreases as well damage output. That would make PVP feel more like PVP and not so much 1 second burst kills that we see today.

Or maybe hard caps on stats both defensively and offensively.

Artim_X

Raideen wrote: »

40612 Spell resist
38302 Physcial resist
3236 Crit resist
35.8k health

and I am dying inside of 2 seconds. No hyperbole, no joke.

This is absolutely dumb.


EDIT: and this is while spamming heals (I am on a sorc)

I am still getting crit for 12k in middle of the damage being done. Not the opener, not the finisher.

With stats like that I can only imagine the two handed ultimate (onslaught) helping kill ya in 2 seconds (This attack ignores the target's Resistance and grants you Physical and Spell Penetration for your Direct Damage attacks equal to 100% of the amount ignored from the initial target for 5 seconds). Other than that you shouldn't br dying so fast especially if breakfree is bound to a single button.

If you have a decent magicka and health pool might even be able to use a single damage shield, but best to stack shields while recuperating from a gank/burst.

It sound like you're focused on playing magicka, you need a decent magicka pool and magicka regen. If you're just relying on class heals, then slot a restoration staff and see if those skills help you stay alive.

EmperorIl

This PvP can be extremely frustrating when you are new, and even then it still retains a certain level of it at times unless you're one of these magical elite who have endless sustain, mitigation, one shot burst, and speed.

The most important thing is knowing your class like the back of your hand and when to use what. Then your build, search youtube for current builds people are rolling with. Finally....speed and line of sight is key in this game. Either rock Wild Hunt or Swift...or both. Block/dodge as well. It really is a learn to play issue but even then it will still frustrate the crap out of you because there are so many stupid things in this game that should not be in PvP.

The actual PvP is horrible, but Cyrodiil is the best playground for it around. The fact this is the best RvR right now speaks to how bad the genre is.

fred4

Raideen wrote: »

40612 Spell resist
38302 Physcial resist
3236 Crit resist
35.8k health

and I am dying inside of 2 seconds. No hyperbole, no joke.

This is absolutely dumb.


EDIT: and this is while spamming heals (I am on a sorc)

I am still getting crit for 12k in middle of the damage being done. Not the opener, not the finisher.

Assuming you're not trolling, the only thing I can think of (off the top of my head) is you were being attacked by a DK running Corrosive Armor, Molten Whip and Malacath. Knowledge and experience is everything. Corrosive Armor (or Onslaught) temporarily negates all of your resistances. Malacath makes your crit resist irrelevant. A fully-charged Molten Whip can hit as hard as an ultimate or execute. What you need to realize is that this is due to temporary buffs your opponent has. An experienced PvPer would avoid getting into the situation you were in 90% of the time. For example Corrosive has a subtle sound and visual effect. As soon as you hear that you can go full defensive and streak away / line of sight for 11 seconds. The DK would have just blown an expensive ultimate for nothing.

This reminds me of another case I heard about involving Corrosive Armor. The DK was running a Master's 2H Brawler build and lured a bunch inexperienced players into a resource tower where he turned around and hit them all for 18K each, probably along with some NPCs. It's a very OP thing to do, but it is extremely situational. It won't work in the majority of situations and isn't very good in duels, therefore only a few people run those types of builds. When you encounter them, you need to adjust your defense accordingly, for example by simply not being baited into an unfavorable position. That only comes with experience.

If you hear Corrosive, if you hear Onslaught, if you hear Incap Strike, it's time to streak / dodge roll / block / shield or whatever your chosen defense is. If you have been cursed, you hear a Meteor, if Purifying Light is about to explode, and so on. You know the drill.

If you have specific issues with breaking free / lag, take the Slippery CP passive for starters and maybe wear Zoal. Those are my personal concessions to defense on my squishy magblade. I also just avoid Cyrodiil at prime time. On your sorc, though, I probably wouldn't go with Zoal. Your goal should be to never be in melee distance for more than 2 seconds. Streak and shields should be your defenses. Learn how to play a bog-standard standard magsorc to start with. Seek out Malcolm on YouTube for that.

I know you're only experimenting, but you're built completely wrong with the stats you listed. You're currently specced as a tank. Even playing a pure tank requires experience. Sustaining a tank and getting the healing right when your offensive / healing stats have been sacrificed on the altar of tankiness is not that easy. You could do that, but unless your express goal is tanking, I wouldn't waste time on it. I can only recommend starting with a standard max magicka sorc build instead, possibly with pets to provide decoy target(s) and make things easier that way.

You mentioned a Negate. Was that an enemy's or your own? If it was from an enemy, you have to dodge roll / sprint immediately on a magicka character or you're dead. If it was your own and you were being attacked by a stamina character, that will do f all to them. Negates are no use against them. They are situational and mainly used in large group play only.

If your gf kills you in duels, great! You have a partner. Duels are ideal for practicing, because they are such controlled, repeatable situations where you can try out different things.

fred4

Raideen wrote: »

I'd love to know how I get 6 attacks on me in one second by ONE player.

Honestly this is a strange question from a magsorc. Your business is doing exactly that to other people. Magsorc is the poster child for it. So let me tell you how it's done:

1. Apply Haunting Curse to target. Will explode in 3.5 seconds.
2. Apply Mage's Fury to target. Will explode when they fall below 20% health.
3. Dump a Meteor on them. Will hit a second or two later.
4. Streak through them, stunning them and doing damage.
5. Turn around 180 degrees and hit them with a light attack cancelled into Crystal Frags.

There. That's an example of 6 things that will go off in the same second, or near enough. More when you consider enchant damage, poisons, a DOT from, say, Degeneration, and your pet(s) zapping the target at the same time.

Now, if you're asking, how do I get the time to do all of that without dying first: For starters you're attacking from range and you should always be ready to streak if anyone gets too close. The traditional magsorc also runs 2 shields: Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka, potentially covering your entire health bar, before you go on the attack. This is why you need a high magicka build. You need your shields to be 10K ... 12K .... 13K in size each. Use Death Dealer's Fete. Use Alfiq or Necropotence. Get your magicka to around 50K. I'm not the expert on this, but that's how sorc has worked since time immemorial. The best resource for PvP magsorc, that I know, is Malcolm on YouTube. Look him up.

NerfSeige

fred4 wrote: »

Turn around 180 degrees and hit them with a light attack cancelled into Crystal Frags.

If you're a console player, you can turn 180 before the animation ends so after the streak, you'll be facing their back.

Though, to execute this correctly, you gotta be familiar with streak's range and you should be able to time it with the cast time.

SkaraMinoc

ESO PvP is not new player friendly.

1) It is very high APM (actions per minute) and "sweaty" gaming.

2) ESO's build diversity creates massive imbalance. The wide variety of skills, sets, traits, enchants, procs, etc. allows knowledgeable and experienced players to build extreme damage, healing, and mitigation. It takes a substantial amount of time and gold to experiment and figure out what works. This is why you see so many build guides because players want a short cut. Many of those PvP builds are inferior or highly situational.

3) The battleground matchmaking is known to be quite bad. Players with years of experience get matched with brand new players. This is mostly a result of low BG population.

4) Cyrodiil lag makes it difficult to mitigate damage because incoming attacks are delayed and then burst all at once after 3-4 seconds.

5) Imperial City has Nightblade gankers that prey on inexperienced players. 35k health, 40k armor, 3k crit resist means nothing to them.

xylena_lazarow

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

5) Imperial City has Nightblade gankers that prey on inexperienced players. 35k health, 40k armor, 3k crit resist means nothing to them.

Would nerfing Caluurion's be enough to give players a window to respond? Or is that already old meta? Burst gankers are part of a healthy meta so long as there's a window to respond. True instakill ganking with no counterplay is highly toxic.

jerj6925

What they need are armor caps, I think someone has said this but classes\builds that can just stand there and not even need to block and taking no damage or unable to move the life bar... I say this as I watched a dragon knight (they were already beast enough but holy crap now they are just god mode) sat on a flag and not even blocking just standing there and would stop his foot (the only animation you would see) and 8 people could not move his life bar at all.. then one dragon leap and two people dead and a bunch hurt... his life bar never once flinched. [snip] Current dragon knight players I am sure will strongly disagree as this must be the most easy mode fun they have had in a long time.

[edited for bashing]

fred4

jerj6925 wrote: »

What they need are armor caps, I think someone has said this but classes\builds that can just stand there and not even need to block and taking no damage or unable to move the life bar... I say this as I watched a dragon knight (they were already beast enough but holy crap now they are just god mode) sat on a flag and not even blocking just standing there and would stop his foot (the only animation you would see) and 8 people could not move his life bar at all.. then one dragon leap and two people dead and a bunch hurt... his life bar never once flinched. [snip] Current dragon knight players I am sure will strongly disagree as this must be the most easy mode fun they have had in a long time.

There is simply a huge disparity between people who know what they're doing and those that don't. Those who know it at a muscle memory level and those that don't. Two experienced players can kill almost any player, whereas 10 inexperienced players might do nothing to the same target. If the DK was just standing there, healing and not blocking, that more than likely says something about the attacking group than about him. There is actual skill involved.

I am not the best player, but for example I have learnt to do vVateshran fast enough to be under the Spirit Slayer time, every time. I was watching a friend do it, via Discord, and he did all the right things. He was weaving. He had a rotation. He had a decent build. And yet he was slow. Noticeably so, but it was really hard to tell exactly what he was "doing wrong". The only thing I could say was that his rotation was, perhaps, not fluid. He did not seem to be multi-tasking properly, for example he did not always move while he was buffing. He occasionally stood still.

And so it is in PvP. If your rotation is inefficient, if you're doing not quite the right skills at the right time and you don't position yourself correctly, your effectiveness plummets. It doesn't just drop by a few percent. It plummets. That's the way this game seems to go. It's the same between me and my duelling partner. He has surpassed me thoroughly. Why? Because he has trained to where his rotation is instinctively better. He is at a point where he'll beat me even while he's playing a new class, but I've seen him on the defensive against a better dueller on that class. His initial conclusion: This new class, mag DK, is worse than stam DK. Maybe. Maybe he doesn't have quite the right build yet. I don't think that's the biggest factor, though. The biggest factor is, IMO, an even slightly unfamiliar rotation or, as a newer player, that you never worked it out to the level of the best players in the first place. If you are afraid of your target, if you don't know THEM well and where their limits are, you tend to over-defend and your own pressure collapses. That tends to give them free reign.

[edited to remove quote]

fred4

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

5) Imperial City has Nightblade gankers that prey on inexperienced players. 35k health, 40k armor, 3k crit resist means nothing to them.

Would nerfing Caluurion's be enough to give players a window to respond? Or is that already old meta? Burst gankers are part of a healthy meta so long as there's a window to respond. True instakill ganking with no counterplay is highly toxic.

Nightblades were extremely strong last summer when the patch as a whole was really high damage. Now? Still good, but "meh" in comparison. I'm with "The Real Godzilla" on YouTube. The disparity between a magblade and a stamblade ganker is still there. It was always so high, there had to be a multitude of factors. Really hard to pinpoint why, but stamblade is still stronger. Stamblade does not need Caluurion. Magblade is inferior, even with Caluurion.

You're forgetting that Caluurion is not instant. Is it situationally strong, because the target may not dodge roll it in complex fights, where they're already under pressure? Of course, but that goes for ganking in general. 1v1, however, it's the same as always. You get ganked by a nightblade, you dodge roll, and 90% of the time you negate their burst entirely. For my own play, I have settled on the following:

• My 50K+ magicka magden runs Dampen Magic and pretty high sustain. Nightblades have not been able to get through that, after I dodge-roilled their initial attack. I was in IC. Believe me, they tried.
• My stam DK - any stam class really - is running all Well-Fitted now. That's fixed my personal problem with prolonged nightblade fights: Running out of stamina from too much blocking or rolling.

There is no instakill ganking against experienced players. If you get insta-killed in a 1v1, you've not been on your toes, not moving, not buffing or not been at the keyboard for a second. Do I get caught out sometimes? Yes, of course. Wouldn't be fair to nightblades otherwise, though, would it?

By the way, ZOS have done something interesting with Caluurion already. They made it so that it only procs from light / heavy attacks. This has made it more difficult to construct burst for the nightblade that won't be dodge-rolled.

All that said: If you really want to counter nightblades, do what I do on my own magblade: Take Slippery CP and wear Zoal. You automatically break free and counter-stun the attacking ganker. Can't tell you how often that has saved my bacon. Do nightblades have counterplay? Absolutely.

fred4

jerj6925 wrote: »

What they need are armor caps,

By the way, you know that armor is capped at 33K (50%), right? Whatever that DK did, it wasn't the result of being passively unkillable. Furthernore ZOS killed you being able to see all animations (though mostly of friendlies) on the altar of performance. It might have been hard to tell everything he was doing. Do I scratch my head sometimes and think the same as you? Yes. However I also know that people who run an active defense can be very hard to distinguish from passively tanky people. Given that the DK in your scenario didn't seem to be a wet noodle when he leaped, he was probably running a more active defense than you give him credit for.

techyeshic

jerj6925 wrote: »

What they need are armor caps

This is an ironic take in a thread where the OP is struggling to survive.

Really, armor is soft capped at 50% resist 33k armor. People easily can penetrate almost half of that. That's not what these "unkillable" tanks are using. If you limited damage reduction even more; you likely would make it even harder for new players and established players would be fine as they'd make more efficientuse of the active defense.

Now; I would think maybe reducing base damage so full defense sets with offensive set was not as effective at damage and healing. Even raise the stats on offensive STAT sets as they do not seem as efficient as defensive sets; but I would not support limiting new players from passive survivability

Fazuszek

Bruh. Unless u post a video how u play, nobody's gonna really help u. Post a video - u gonna get solid feedback about ur skills/or whats wrong.

Simple.

divnyi

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

5) Imperial City has Nightblade gankers that prey on inexperienced players. 35k health, 40k armor, 3k crit resist means nothing to them.

Would nerfing Caluurion's be enough to give players a window to respond? Or is that already old meta? Burst gankers are part of a healthy meta so long as there's a window to respond. True instakill ganking with no counterplay is highly toxic.

HP and Armor doesn't mean anything really, piloting skills matter. NBs can extend burst into longer (riskier) sequence, or do several waves with very small interval in-between. Depends on NB build ofc.

I'm rolling bashblade, I can eat through 35k chars easily if they start playing defensively (and I force them to, because initial advantage) and fail to escape from my range, and none of their friends show up to help. Doing DPS is cheaper for me than recovering from it for other party, but that's build-specific thing.

xylena_lazarow

divnyi wrote: »

NBs can extend burst into longer (riskier) sequence, or do several waves with very small interval in-between. Depends on NB build ofc.

Yes all of that is fine, sorry I misunderstood this thread being about true insta-kills, it's not, carry on.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

It actually is the worst, lol, but I think that is what makes it different and fun. No other mmo can I just run around the entire map invisible and 2 gcd literally everyone I see. Nor does any other game allow you to be tanky, max burst, and max heals all at once. Disgustingly imbalanced, but that truly is what makes it fun.

divnyi

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

NBs can extend burst into longer (riskier) sequence, or do several waves with very small interval in-between. Depends on NB build ofc.

Yes all of that is fine, sorry I misunderstood this thread being about true insta-kills, it's not, carry on.

I don't believe it's possible to 2-GCD 35k with decent armor. Even with caluurions and simmering, that's just way too high. But 3-4 GCD with some undodgeable finishers - yep, possible. Been on receiving side too.

Larcomar

Pretty borked, sure. Worst PVP ever encountered in 20 years of online video games, I think that's a little harsh. Would I recommend it to a serious pvp'r, no. I know alot of people like to bang on about the super high skill cap, but between the lag, the broken sets and the exploits, it's not really set up for any sort of competitive gaming. What ESO does offer is pretty unique RvR combat, huge sieges and a lot of fun. I don't think there's anythign like it on the market - do correct me if I'm wrong. Sure, it can degenerate into a loony tunes cartoon, but that has a charm of it's own...

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

divnyi wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

NBs can extend burst into longer (riskier) sequence, or do several waves with very small interval in-between. Depends on NB build ofc.

Yes all of that is fine, sorry I misunderstood this thread being about true insta-kills, it's not, carry on.

I don't believe it's possible to 2-GCD 35k with decent armor. Even with caluurions and simmering, that's just way too high. But 3-4 GCD with some undodgeable finishers - yep, possible. Been on receiving side too.

Whatever I will just tell you what I am doing, its an old build from like a year ago anyways. Its molag kena + doylemish + calurions. An oldy but a goody in this patch. Get your buffs on, simmering, swing twice at the air to proc kena, cloak, cast balance(for empower), Full heavy attack, then either surprise attack or incap. Thats all 1 gcd and then you can finish with whatever you want, but I personally love whirling blades cause like you said you can't dodge that. You got to be an absolute monster tank to survive all that damage if you are unprepared for it. Most of the time I don't even bother with simmering because its just overkill. I think with the build its probably better to use sated fury instead, so at least you get some hp back for your epic escape.

BlakMarket

[snip]

I dont even think anyone has mentioned how important healing/LOS/mobility is.

Look at your heals more like a shield that you need to maintain every 5-10 seconds, heal before you enter a fight even at full health.

Line of sight (LOS), is the best damage mitigation in the game, use tree's, rocks, walls anything that will make it hard for your enemies to target you.

Sorc and NB's have the best mobility in the game & when used correctly cloak/streak, they can decided when to enter a fight and when to leave & reset the fight.

Set your mouse wheel, to either bash when rolled forwards and dodge roll when rolled backwards, this helped me immensely.

Finally, dont listen to people who say, try this class because it's "tankier" all classes are tanky if they are played correctly, get to know your class by watching content creators who play your class, watching their rotations, by dueling, BG's and being proactive about getting better.

[edited for rude/insulting comment]

Alchimiste1

A screenshot of your death recap would be very helpful. If its a pure gank build then getting one shot seems understandable. If you are dying every time after being cc'd that's something else. You need to response quick to cc break and for example dodge the assassin's will that is likely to follow