Battlegrounds still Deathmatch Only

Shnax

If I understand the bucket system correctly, those buckets are technically separate queues for each game mode. Players who select DM only, are put only into the DM bucket, players who select random get put into all buckets. As soon as there are twelve players in any bucket, that game starts for them and the players are removed from all other buckets.
That means, that whenever there are eleven players for random and one player for DM only, a DM game is started for those twelve players. It also means that in the rare cases when objective games actually happened, there were at least twelve players in a row queuing up for random.

A way to make better use of those buckets might be to change the interface to something similar to the specific dungeon queue, where you can check multiple dungeons and queue up for all of them at the same time. They could do the same for the game modes, but by default have all of them checked. (Did we not have something like that in the past?)

This would not only affect queuing for DM but would allow for other options like not queuing for Capture the Relic if you have the Test of Mettle quest. You could also go for specific achievements more selectively. Or just remove Zerg Ball because it sucks.

trackdemon5512

Im observing the weekly results of BGs on PlayStation. Top score for Deathmatch this week was about 370000. Top score on Land Grab was about 14000. Top Score on Flag Games was about 9000. The individual who had the number one score for both Flag and Land Games was the same person. They were also #2 on the Deathmatch leaderboard. It’s fair to say this individual was prolific in queuing up for random BG and not random DM this week and serves as an excellent test case.

Now let me do some quick calculations. I know it’s easier to accumulate points in Deathmatch over Objectives. With that said let’s use 4000 points a game for avg deathmatch score and 2000 points for avg Objective Score.

This player engaged in about:
93 Deathmatches
3 Flag Games
3/4 Land Grabs

93% of their matches were Deathmatches. This lines up EXACTLY with what was predicted with the way the queue system works under perfect conditions. That’s the chance that if 12 people queue up, if at least one specifically queues for just Deathmatch then everyone gets Deathmatch PLUS the chances that if 12 people queue for a random BG that they still get Deathmatch.

auz

That is an assumption. And you would have to ask them to be sure. I queue for both all the time and group bgs as well. I could say they obviously don't mind DM because of how many games they played, but that would be an assumption as well and not a fact.

trackdemon5512

auz wrote: »

That is an assumption. And you would have to ask them to be sure. I queue for both all the time and group bgs as well. I could say they obviously don't mind DM because of how many games they played, but that would be an assumption as well and not a fact.

In order to get into a flag game said individual would have had to go in with a group of 12 others who also did just random BG and not DM.

11 out of 12 ways to match people into a BG result in a guaranteed Deathmatch. 91.6%

If 12 people all queue for random BG the chance of a deathmatch is 1 in 5. 20% of the remaining 8.4% resulting in 1.6%

Total: 93.2%

Said player is at the top of the leaderboard on every single BG category meaning they were incredibly active and likely to have been queuing for just RANDOM BG because otherwise they would have never gotten into objective matches.

Based upon likely final match avg scores per mode and that they definitely went into over 80 matches, it’s more than a random assumption. It’s a logical conclusion based upon the evidence.

And that it matches up pretty well with perfect distribution curve stats only helps my argument.

93 out of 101-102 matches DMs
93.2% chance of DMs with a perfect population

It matches way too well

spacefracking

CyberOnEso wrote: »

If we presume "Deathmatch only" has 51% of the people queuing for it (As "it's the top queue"). Then due to sheer probability, 99.984% of all games played will be Deathmatch. Which I think is an issue as 49% of hypothetical players want something else other than Deathmatch, as they went out of their way to change the drop-down to select it.

0.99984% = 1-(((1-0.51)^12)*0.8)

Ok, real questions here.. What is the thinking behind the 0.8?

auz

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

auz wrote: »

That is an assumption. And you would have to ask them to be sure. I queue for both all the time and group bgs as well. I could say they obviously don't mind DM because of how many games they played, but that would be an assumption as well and not a fact.

In order to get into a flag game said individual would have had to go in with a group of 12 others who also did just random BG and not DM.

11 out of 12 ways to match people into a BG result in a guaranteed Deathmatch. 91.6%

If 12 people all queue for random BG the chance of a deathmatch is 1 in 5. 20% of the remaining 8.4% resulting in 1.6%

Total: 93.2%

Said player is at the top of the leaderboard on every single BG category meaning they were incredibly active and likely to have been queuing for just RANDOM BG because otherwise they would have never gotten into objective matches.

Based upon likely final match avg scores per mode and that they definitely went into over 80 matches, it’s more than a random assumption. It’s a logical conclusion based upon the evidence.

And that it matches up pretty well with perfect distribution curve stats only helps my argument.

93 out of 101-102 matches DMs
93.2% chance of DMs with a perfect population

It matches way too well

It's still an assumption. I queue for everything and still get the odd objective. I have received rewards for finishing on the leader boards of objective bgs because I queue for everything. The only thing your stat's prove is this person plays a lot.

drunkendx

auz wrote: »

It's still an assumption. I queue for everything and still get the odd objective. I have received rewards for finishing on the leader boards of objective bgs because I queue for everything. The only thing your stat's prove is this person plays a lot.

and I queue for random BG a lot (over 50 matches since implementation of current system) and I've yet to see single objective BG, all were DM...

So I say number above are correct.

Just because you're disagreeing it does not meant it's "assumption"...

auz

drunkendx wrote: »

auz wrote: »

It's still an assumption. I queue for everything and still get the odd objective. I have received rewards for finishing on the leader boards of objective bgs because I queue for everything. The only thing your stat's prove is this person plays a lot.

and I queue for random BG a lot (over 50 matches since implementation of current system) and I've yet to see single objective BG, all were DM...

So I say number above are correct.

Just because you're disagreeing it does not meant it's "assumption"...

You can disagree as much as you want. My argument was never that the stat's are wrong. Just that the original statement was flawed. Unless you go and ask the person on the leaderboard in question or get a record of the players queues it is an assumption, due to it being possible to get an objective match while queuing in both. Is it probable that the person in question queued only random? It could be. We don't know and that is the point. Passing off random statistics and making claims as fact off assumed data to prove your own bias is something of a problem in here.

trackdemon5512

auz wrote: »

drunkendx wrote: »

auz wrote: »

It's still an assumption. I queue for everything and still get the odd objective. I have received rewards for finishing on the leader boards of objective bgs because I queue for everything. The only thing your stat's prove is this person plays a lot.

and I queue for random BG a lot (over 50 matches since implementation of current system) and I've yet to see single objective BG, all were DM...

So I say number above are correct.

Just because you're disagreeing it does not meant it's "assumption"...

You can disagree as much as you want. My argument was never that the stat's are wrong. Just that the original statement was flawed. Unless you go and ask the person on the leaderboard in question or get a record of the players queues it is an assumption, due to it being possible to get an objective match while queuing in both. Is it probable that the person in question queued only random? It could be. We don't know and that is the point. Passing off random statistics and making claims as fact off assumed data to prove your own bias is something of a problem in here.

It is not possible to get a Flag Game/Land Grab while queuing for the solo/group Deathmatch. That said I’ve reached out to this individual and am waiting to hear back about their playing over the course of the last week.

Regardless, the fact that said player was Number 1 on the Objective Leaderboards and Number 2 on the Deathmatch Leaderboards (2 1/2 hours were left before the closing of the boards) makes them the best test case. Esp since the Leaderboard rankings are based on straight cumulative medals we can easily assure ourselves that this individual queued the most for random BGs.

It doesn’t matter really if they mixed up Deathmatch and BG queues because they still came out on top for cumulative play.

auz

[snip] I said, I queue for solo DM, solo random, group DM and group random and last week I was on the leaderboard of PC NA and got rewards.

[edited for baiting]

CyberOnEso

spacefracking wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

If we presume "Deathmatch only" has 51% of the people queuing for it (As "it's the top queue"). Then due to sheer probability, 99.984% of all games played will be Deathmatch. Which I think is an issue as 49% of hypothetical players want something else other than Deathmatch, as they went out of their way to change the drop-down to select it.

0.99984% = 1-(((1-0.51)^12)*0.8)

Ok, real questions here.. What is the thinking behind the 0.8?

Hey'a, good question, the reason for 0.8 is there are 5 game modes

Deathmatch, Chaos Ball, Capture the Relic, Crazy King, and Domination.

Therefore there is a 0.8/1 probability of getting a non- deathmatch mode when all 12 people queued in the 'random battleground' queue.

Hope this helps

Contos

While i'm not the guy in question, I can provide a some useful data. (PC-EU)
Since the patch it's the 4th week. On the last 3 weeks I've been playing random only, mostly solo.
Played around 200 games. 20-25 games with a premade team of 2 or 3, the rest solo queue.

-Last week I was #80 on the DM leaderboard with 130.000 points, and 90ish in flag games with 1000. Got goldmailed for both.
-The week before that i had been on the DM leaderboards troughout the week before falling because I wasn't able to gain more points than 108.000 cuz some bug preventing me and others from gaining points towards the board every now and then or all together. I was on the leaderboards for land grab tho with 2000ish points (one match).
-Week one i didn't play as much.

My friend also got gold mail for land grab on the week before, he was in the top 10 with only one match.
In the end, from 180-185 solo random games got 0 objective.
From 20-25 group games i got 3 objective modes, 1 chaosball, 1 domination, 1 crazy king.
While i'm fine with DM, i like objective modes too, even with their flaws, getting only one gamemode over and over (it can be any mode) is extremely boring, not even a month passed and I'm already burnt out.

Darkmage1337

I just want to add that this needs significant more attention.
Hopefully we will see some adjustment to the Battleground Queue System in the next incremental patch.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

I have not gotten a single objective-based game despite deliberately queueing for Solo Random (via the drop-down).
I have played well over 50 matches across numerous characters and accounts at various times of day and different days of the week. No matter the variable or criteria, I cannot seem to get a single objective-based Battleground game mode. While I equally enjoy Deathmatch as much as anyone else, I greatly prefer player-choice and variety. Above all, it is a major disappointment to see the Battleground Queue in its current state.

trackdemon5512

Week 2 of Deadlands Patch. PS4NA Ranking Scores

Top Deathmatch Score: 549,399
Top Land Grab Score: 14,120
Top Flag Game Score: 12,990

Lowest Deathmatch Score: 108010
Lowest Land Grab Score: 4335
Lowest Flag Game Score: 3081

Going by same metric as last week: AVG 4,000 points a DM 2,000 points an Objective

Top DM Player's Data:
DM - 549,399 or 137 matches #1
Land - 8,485 or 4 matches #13
Flag - no ranked score in top 100

Top Land Grab Player's Data:
DM - 373,987 or 93 matches #4
Land - 14,120 or 7 matches #1
Flag - 9,016 or 4 matches #5

Top Flag Game Player's Data:
DM - no ranked score in top 100
Land - no ranked score in top 100
Flag - 12,990 or 6 matches #1

Top DM Player: 97% of Matches were DM, 3% Objective
Top Land Grab Player: 89% of Matches were DM, 11% Objective
Top Flag Game Player: at most 81% of Matches were DM (Cannot tell as score was under 108k), between 19% and 100% of matches were Objective

Flag Game leader seems a bit like an outlier. That said the other two major leaders were very similar in that after all of their matches it was roughly 90% Deathmatch. Still a ridiculous bias towards one mode.

nightstrike

I queued a bunch of times today for Random, got DM every single time. I left early, took the 5 minute penalty, and q'd again. Finally gave up.

@ZOS_Kevin , Can you get someone to comment on this? We made it clear before the patch dropped that it was a broken design. It seems it is now conclusively proven that it's a broken design. Can someone at least respond to that brokenness with the plan going forward?

mmtaniac

It's just works.

FreeMaN_A

Any news when objective players will be able to return to BGs?

Stncold

Hadn't played ESO seriously since about 2015. Came back about a month ago after WoW circled the drain, New World bombed, and not caring much for FF14. Love many of the changes since and it almost feels like a different game especially with One Tamriel. Had fun catching up on stuff and doing story. Was excited to do BG's at first especially after remembering at launch how I wish they existed but I have literally only done deathmatch in the 60 or so BG's I've done even though I always queue for solo random. Don't get me wrong deathmatch is nice but I greatly prefer objective stuff. Been extremely disappointing not doing a single objective match this entire time.
Please look into this and change how it works. I doubt I'm the only returning player who dislikes this.

GetAgrippa

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

It is not possible to get a Flag Game/Land Grab while queuing for the solo/group Deathmatch. That said I’ve reached out to this individual and am waiting to hear back about their playing over the course of the last week.

This is factually incorrect. I queue for solo dm, solo random, group dm, and group random every time I'm queuing alone and I still get objective matches. I literally never queue only random bg. They don't happen a lot, but the do happen.

gamma71

I actually got into a domination match last night. In a random solo. I like objective based BG because it's boring just doing Dm I spend most my time in cyrodil Wich is just a giant DM of zerg vs zerg.

Contos

GetAgrippa wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

It is not possible to get a Flag Game/Land Grab while queuing for the solo/group Deathmatch. That said I’ve reached out to this individual and am waiting to hear back about their playing over the course of the last week.

This is factually incorrect. I queue for solo dm, solo random, group dm, and group random every time I'm queuing alone and I still get objective matches. I literally never queue only random bg. They don't happen a lot, but the do happen.

You say it's incorrect but you aren't disproving it.
It's not an argument that queueing for all the queues is giving you objective once in a while. The only thing it proves is the obivous.
How can you even queue for solo dm, solo random, group dm, and group random every time when you can only queue one at a time? The way you putting it is very misunderstandable and misleading, either intentionally or not.
You can't queue for all queues at the same time. You choose one.
However, if you queue for these randomly, once solo dm, once solo random ect, you will ofc get objectives time to time.
Nothing suprising. What's your point then?
Something along the lines of "I get objective games even if I ONLY queue for solo DM"? Then why didn't you say that, way more clear. But I know why.
Because you can't prove it, it's not happening, there is a reason why we have solo DM in the first place. To get ONLY dm, all the time.
It doesn't make sense to have two identical queues. Or it shouldn't...
But since ZOS doesn't give us much info and what we have is again... very vauge, I don't know what to think anymore.

"One thing to keep in mind is the random queue will include all game modes (Flag Games, Land Grabs, and Deathmatch) so the likelihood of getting Deathmatch is going to be higher for those queueing into that game mode, specifically" - ZOS, from the thread "Upcoming Changes to Battleground Queues" on oct 15

GetAgrippa

Contos wrote: »

How can you even queue for solo dm, solo random, group dm, and group random every time when you can only queue one at a time? The way you putting it is very misunderstandable and misleading, either intentionally or not.
You can't queue for all queues at the same time.

Lol I don't know what you have going on on PC but on console I absolutely can queue for all 4 at the same time and I do so every time I queue alone, like I said. Do you need me to take a picture for you? I will if you require evidence and you just want to assume I'm lying. I'm not going to bother responding to the rest. It's a dead horse getting beat.



Here, I took a picture for you
http://imgur.com/gallery/zXusFgQ

nightstrike

Contos wrote: »

Lol I don't know what you have going on on PC but on console I absolutely can queue for all 4 at the same time and I do so every time I queue alone, like I said. Do you need me to take a picture for you? I will if you require evidence and you just want to assume I'm lying. I'm not going to bother responding to the rest. It's a dead horse getting beat.

Here, I took a picture for you
http://imgur.com/gallery/zXusFgQ

On PC, it's a dropdown, and you can only choose 1 of the 4.

Casul

nightstrike wrote: »

Contos wrote: »

Lol I don't know what you have going on on PC but on console I absolutely can queue for all 4 at the same time and I do so every time I queue alone, like I said. Do you need me to take a picture for you? I will if you require evidence and you just want to assume I'm lying. I'm not going to bother responding to the rest. It's a dead horse getting beat.

Here, I took a picture for you
http://imgur.com/gallery/zXusFgQ

On PC, it's a dropdown, and you can only choose 1 of the 4.

Gamepad mode allows for multiple selections. I am on PC and I queue random group and random solo constantly. Probably 100-150 matches no objective modes yet.

Contos

GetAgrippa wrote: »

Contos wrote: »

How can you even queue for solo dm, solo random, group dm, and group random every time when you can only queue one at a time? The way you putting it is very misunderstandable and misleading, either intentionally or not.
You can't queue for all queues at the same time.

Lol I don't know what you have going on on PC but on console I absolutely can queue for all 4 at the same time and I do so every time I queue alone, like I said. Do you need me to take a picture for you? I will if you require evidence and you just want to assume I'm lying. I'm not going to bother responding to the rest. It's a dead horse getting beat.



Here, I took a picture for you
http://imgur.com/gallery/zXusFgQ

Yeah, sorry, I didn't think about the consol thing.
However the original statement you pictured as incorrect was the following: "It is not possible to get a Flag Game/Land Grab while queuing for the solo/group Deathmatch". The essence of it is if you queue for ONLY solo dm you wont get anything else. And yeah, you can argue that when you queue for ALL you queue for solo dm too and can get objectives. Nothing new.
But i want to remind you that queueing for all is just the same as queueing for solo random and group random. And getting objective there is not a big surprise at all, and proves nothing. It is just nitpicking.

VarlaStreak

I miss when battlegrounds was only "Solo Random Battleground" and "Group Random Battleground." None of this bucket stuff or Oops All Deathmatch nonsense. Can we ever just go back to that?

mmtaniac

High mmr deathmatch is tankfiesta most boring mode ever. Deathmatch is fun only when you can kill people. Tankfiesta destroy any enjoy from dm.

mandricus

Shnax wrote: »

If I understand the bucket system correctly, those buckets are technically separate queues for each game mode. Players who select DM only, are put only into the DM bucket, players who select random get put into all buckets. As soon as there are twelve players in any bucket, that game starts for them and the players are removed from all other buckets.

A way to make better use of those buckets might be to change the interface to something similar to the specific dungeon queue, where you can check multiple dungeons and queue up for all of them at the same time. They could do the same for the game modes, but by default have all of them checked. (Did we not have something like that in the past?)

This would not only affect queuing for DM but would allow for other options like not queuing for Capture the Relic if you have the Test of Mettle quest. You could also go for specific achievements more selectively. Or just remove Zerg Ball because it sucks.

Exactly this!
I think this would be the ideal solution given the situation we are at the moment.
Since there are "buckets" and this is the way the group finder works at the moment, please let us choose at least on which bucket we want to put our tickets.
This option could be provided only for people that want to tweak it, the default can still be as of today (queue for random -> put a ticket in every bucket). I feel we should have an option (e.g. "specific modes") that could let us choose if we want to put our queue ticket individually for chaosball, domination, capture the relic, crazy king, deathmatch. That way I could be able, for example, to queue for a random but only if it's chaosball, capture the relic and crazy king, and not queue for domination or deathmatch.

mmtaniac

Buckets will not work too , i like deathmatch too but i don't like deathmatch non stop. Random was best solution but with 50% chance to get deathmatch this means game should check somehow that you have objective mode last match FINISHED ,if you leave you get again objective until you FINISH it. Guarantee deathmatch in random every second game.

Macwynne67

Can we please fix the random bg's already. 20 random battle grounds all I got was death match.. I enjoy this game and the bg's were the iceing on the cake . I guess I will have to go back to DAOC