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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Overland Content Feedback Thread
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dcam86b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Player since BETA here so I have seen the evolution of ESO extensively.
World Bosses-prior to one Tamriel the WB was one-shotting but fun to do bc they were challenging. With the introduction of companions, the WB in ESO is like normal mobs now.
Anchors/vents etc- these encounters are still fun but again with companions it has become super EZ to just AFK and let your partner do the damage.
Delves/ public dungeons-very EZ due to high DPS ceiling and companions. No challenge at all.
My suggestions to help bring some excitement back would be to rework some of the boss/mob AI to be more challenging or at least bring them back to the VET level era but not as extreme to not turn away new lower levels.
Hold back on introducing more DPS antiquities and perhaps tweak any new antiquities to have unique quirks and not just DPS.
Maybe introduce an island or area where mobs/wb/delves are going to be more challenging and you should only go there at your own risk and make the rewards worth it. Kind of like how Craglorn was but make it not in the mainland or even a queuable zone.Edited by dcam86b14_ESO on 10 November 2022 16:074 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
Wildstar. And i enjoyed the difficulty level after the initial mob nerf and the intial launch of the EU server. Since then its gotten sleepy easy.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 11 November 2022 12:252 -
AlexanderDeLarge✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Unless Zenimax starts paying me, it's not my job to write up design docs for a feature like this. Especially when it's going to be completely ignored like everything else everyone has said in here. I've always advocated for a scaling solution. Difficulty sliders, debuff mementos (not food, consumable = bad) or even world tiers Diablo-style.I can manage a minor uptick in difficulty. But who's to determine how much that uptick is? No one ever posts a percentage.... They all just want "more difficulty"....
All I know is when you have threads constantly complaining about the lack of difficulty in overland eventually resulting in this 137 page thread on top of everything said on social media about the lack of difficulty, there's clearly a problem with a lack of overland difficulty in the game.Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 7 paid expansions. 22 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the vast majority of this game.
"ESO doesn't need a harder overland" on YouTube for a video of a naked level 3 character AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half before dying6 -
AlexanderDeLarge✭✭✭✭✭
✭When was the last time you enjoyed the difficulty of the mobs in a game?
Let's try to keep it to an MMO.
Yesterday when I logged into Lord of the Rings Online and used the landscape difficulty feature on their progression server. Unfortunately it hasn't been added to the regular servers yet. It's not a perfect solution but it's an attempt which is more than I can say about the current state of TESO's and enough to make questing enjoyable. Alternate answer when I played New World's Brimstone Sands a couple days ago.
https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Landscape_Difficulty
Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 7 paid expansions. 22 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the vast majority of this game.
"ESO doesn't need a harder overland" on YouTube for a video of a naked level 3 character AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half before dying6 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »When was the last time you enjoyed the difficulty of the mobs in a game?
Let's try to keep it to an MMO.
Yesterday when I logged into Lord of the Rings Online and used the landscape difficulty feature on their progression server. Unfortunately it hasn't been added to the regular servers yet. It's not a perfect solution but it's an attempt which is more than I can say about the current state of TESO's and enough to make questing enjoyable. Alternate answer when I played New World's Brimstone Sands a couple days ago.
https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Landscape_Difficulty
What does the Slider do for LOTR?
What would be the equivalent if it was implemented to eso?
You say it's not perfect what would make it perfect?0 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
Wildstar. And i enjoyed the difficulty level after the initial mob nerf and the intial launch of the EU server. Since then its gotten sleepy easy.
[edited to remove quote]
Why was their a Mob Nerf?0 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
Wildstar. And i enjoyed the difficulty level after the initial mob nerf and the intial launch of the EU server. Since then its gotten sleepy easy.
[edited to remove quote]
Why was their a Mob Nerf?
Because they were overpowered. They were nerfed into pointlessnes though.0 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
Wildstar. And i enjoyed the difficulty level after the initial mob nerf and the intial launch of the EU server. Since then its gotten sleepy easy.
[edited to remove quote]
Why was their a Mob Nerf?
Because they were overpowered. They were nerfed into pointlessnes though.
So in other words, when it was fun for you it was overpowered for others.
I think this whole thread is based on that observation.
What would be a solution for ESO for you that would work ?1 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
Wildstar. And i enjoyed the difficulty level after the initial mob nerf and the intial launch of the EU server. Since then its gotten sleepy easy.
[edited to remove quote]
Why was their a Mob Nerf?
Because they were overpowered. They were nerfed into pointlessnes though.
So in other words, when it was fun for you it was overpowered for others.
I think this whole thread is based on that observation.
What would be a solution for ESO for you that would work ?
Much of this thread acknowledged that and asked for an optional way to change it.
FO76 made a change similar to ESOs overall direction. Similar in that One Wasteland was modeled after 1T and they standardized combat. Their combat needed to be fixed. Basically they scaled back the power that the player had. The end result was that for a brief time overland, which was basically the entire game at the time, save once instance, became briefly engaging.
There were a number of people that complained. My job frequently pulls me out of gaming for extended periods. When I came back, it was pretty easy again, but this time they had persistent private servers where the difficulty could be changed.
For obvious reason that wouldn't work in ESO, but the idea of having another option is what many are asking for. I rarely go into a public world in FO anymore. I personally find the idea of the biggest baddest boss in the land dying in literal seconds because of broken mechanics unappealing and not fun at all. I dont find it fun here either. Molag Bal is easier to defeat than a Direnni vampire held up in a castle in Skyrim
Other folks liked the ease of the game. They enjoyed mowing over mobs in events for the event rewards, sneaking around an one-shotting everything, or chasing the ever elusive calibrated shocks for ultracite armor in large groups ending the boss that threatened to wipe out the remnants of humanity in a few seconds. What BGS did was allow us to coexist in the same game.
In my opinion was it a good solution, but I wouldn't ask ZOS to do it any longer. They appear to be oblivious to nuance and the end result would likely be a game-wide change similar to the way AwA was implemented.Edited by Agenericname on 14 November 2022 15:056 -
Cireous✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Brimstone Sands, NW.When was the last time you enjoyed the difficulty of the mobs in a game?
Let's try to keep it to an MMO.
Shockingly, it's the best Elder Scrolls-like Overland MMO experience to date. No shade. It just is what it is and I love it. My only criticism is that the Mainstory came to an end. The sound of stone lids sliding off these enormous sarcophagai, bound by magical locks, opened by hidden glyphs throughout an incredibly immersive landscape. What a f'ing adventure. I died so much. It was perfection.
2 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
Wildstar. And i enjoyed the difficulty level after the initial mob nerf and the intial launch of the EU server. Since then its gotten sleepy easy.
[edited to remove quote]
Why was their a Mob Nerf?
Because they were overpowered. They were nerfed into pointlessnes though.
So in other words, when it was fun for you it was overpowered for others.
I think this whole thread is based on that observation.
What would be a solution for ESO for you that would work ?
Thats why we have been preaching an OPTIONAL thing. Also, they went from what could be comparable to expert on skyrim to novice, instead of adept or apprentice.5 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Brimstone Sands, NW.When was the last time you enjoyed the difficulty of the mobs in a game?
Let's try to keep it to an MMO.
Shockingly, it's the best Elder Scrolls-like Overland MMO experience to date. No shade. It just is what it is and I love it. My only criticism is that the Mainstory came to an end. The sound of stone lids sliding off these enormous sarcophagai, bound by magical locks, opened by hidden glyphs throughout an incredibly immersive landscape. What a f'ing adventure. I died so much. It was perfection.
Do you think 6 years from now that area will be the same for new world players or will devs play around with it to please the player base?
As I think Veteran levels were a thing for ESO back in the beginning0 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
How? Honestly, I ran through the game with garbage white gear 15 levels below my level so it debuffs me, no set items, and I can sneeze on mobs and they die. 0 threat to me.
[snip]
Wildstar. And i enjoyed the difficulty level after the initial mob nerf and the intial launch of the EU server. Since then its gotten sleepy easy.
[edited to remove quote]
Why was their a Mob Nerf?
Because they were overpowered. They were nerfed into pointlessnes though.
So in other words, when it was fun for you it was overpowered for others.
I think this whole thread is based on that observation.
What would be a solution for ESO for you that would work ?
Thats why we have been preaching an OPTIONAL thing. Also, they went from what could be comparable to expert on skyrim to novice, instead of adept or apprentice.
What would that entail of in terms of mechanics ?... my Skyrim knowledge is sparse0 -
TheS1X✭✭✭ESO is what it is... I think PvP is worst in this game, PvE is dull and feels boring, but graphics and how game runs and feels overall is best mmo experience out there.
I still hope, I really hope that eventually they give us overland difficulty slider.
I would enjoy this game much more when I have to face some danger in overland content.
As a casual player, I have no time and no wish to get into trials etc... And dungeons are sadly pretty easy too
- and runing same content over and over again gets boring very fast to me. Overland is huge but it is nerfed too much.
So yeah, I don't feel powerful if I can kill something that dies even when I fight naked and fists only. - When lvl 10 bytheway.
Would like to see some deathtraps too that one hit kill me, maybe some puzzles that kill you when you solve it wrong.
Make it count devs... It's a videogame and death is totally normal in a videogame.
And plz start to add some cosmetic awards for overland.
MAKE OVERLAND COOL AND AMAZING! Make it so players want to explore it and have fun in it.
PS: People who don't want to fight with difficult monsters can always take a roads for example.8 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PS: People who don't want to fight with difficult monsters can always take a roads for example.
So players who enjoy overland as it has been for the past several years since One Tamriel can just "take a road" and not explore the land around them so a small minority can have more difficulty? No thank you.PCNA4 -
TheS1X✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »PS: People who don't want to fight with difficult monsters can always take a roads for example.
So players who enjoy overland as it has been for the past several years since One Tamriel can just "take a road" and not explore the land around them so a small minority can have more difficulty? No thank you.
Sorry, I knew I didn't explain very clearly.
But, this is why there's a difficulty slider. People who want dull and easy content can always play on easy mode like it is atm...
To make difficulty slider work, there are 2 ways.
1. Different difficulty instances.
2. The player who attacks monster first or agros monster, locks to his difficulty until it's dead, player dies or agro is lost.
Ofc, with higher difficulty, there should be higher rewards.6 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ofc, with higher difficulty, there should be higher rewards.
No, there shouldn't.
Players asking for more difficulty are stating that the current fights are boring and aren't engaging and they want more of a challenge. Increased challenge is the stated goal.
Giving increased rewards turns this into a way to farm higher tiered rewards that are currently earned from doing veteran dungeons, trials and arenas by just playing through the story. Overland should not be turned into a veteran gear farming ground.
But this is all moot because it has already been announced they there are no plans for any major changes to overland difficulty.Edited by SilverBride on 20 November 2022 17:48PCNA2 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If I want to farm experience I farm normal blackrose prison, if I want to farm gear I farm normal dungeons and upgrade the drops. Giving more experience compensates for longer fight times and higher quality gear compensates for getting less, while also getting players new to that level of difficulty up to speed with quality gear, so they'll be better able to do other challenging content should they wish. Normal difficulty already is the place people go to farm stuff, and that wouldn't change.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Giving more experience compensates for longer fight times and higher quality gear compensates for getting less...
I could agree with this if increased difficulty was mandatory for everyone, but that's not the case. If a player wants more difficulty to make the fights more engaging that is all that is needed. If they also expect better drops then it is no longer just about finding overland more engaging....while also getting players new to that level of difficulty up to speed with quality gear, so they'll be better able to do other challenging content should they wish.
Overland has some decent sets now that are more than adequate for entry level dungeons, trials and arenas. But it is for playing through the story, not getting gear for veteran content.Edited by SilverBride on 20 November 2022 19:24PCNA0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is a standard established across the entirety of the game. For me experience is worthless as all it would do is provide more champion points, but I have enough gold that if I ever need a different slottable I can easily change things around, I gain nothing from that. I'm drowning in purple upgrade mats from running vet content regularly, I gain nothing from that. A new player who still needs levels and has no good quality gear would benefit from both. If I wanted to farm out overland gear, because it is just so perfect, I'd do so on normal, so I would get more chances to get the piece I want and use my excess of upgrade mats to make it better, in both cases if I wanted to farm I would do so on the lower difficulty.
So overall, better rewards align with the standard established everywhere else in the game, most heavily benefit those who would be using it as their introduction to more challenging content, and wouldn't 'break the market' because if people want to farm for any reason normal is always preferable. This is part of expecting a standard that is already set everywhere else in the game where pve difficulty is concerned to be expanded everywhere, and the false concern that people would use this to leverage the economy is just that, false. If overland sets were such a hot selling item the markets would already be flooded with pieces, because the people itching to make that gold wouldn't have an issue upgrading the gear to purple to up its selling price, but if that issue doesn't exist now it wouldn't exist in a world where people could more slowly gain gear pre-upgraded, because even then people would just farm normal, as they already do.4 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Except those who explicitly left the game due to it feeling dull, or those who want to but want to learn in an area outside of group content, or those who just want a bit more of a challenge while questing on their own and could use the resources gained later on if they decided to do group content. You and your preference on how to play the game doesn't speak for everyone, go back and read of how many people fall into these groups. Just because you aren't a part of that group doesn't mean it doesn't exist.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In my opinion it would be a mistake to put resources into something that some former players may or may not return for, especially since there are many players enjoying overland just as it is currently.Edited by SilverBride on 20 November 2022 20:20PCNA2 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well they put resources into the card game, and companions, and housing, and pvp (sometimes), and end game pve, and so on. Not every addition needs to be for everyone, but to keep ignoring groups of players only serves to put them off, have them leave, have the game get a worse reputation over time for ignoring its players, and results in an earlier end to the game. The long term health of the game would benefit from happy players, not players feeling ignored, and I don't think I need to cite places where that's apparent.7 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The card game has proven to be very popular, and housing is huge. Difficult overland is not nearly as sought after and has been proven in the past to have actually caused players to leave. Taking away veteran overland with One Tamriel was very beneficial to the health of this game.PCNA2 -
wookiefriseur✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Difficult overland is not nearly as sought after and has been proven in the past to have actually caused players to leave. Taking away veteran overland with One Tamriel was very beneficial to the health of this game.
It was the level gate that got taken away with One Tamriel. There never was overland content with veteran difficulty. Only exception would be Craglorn and that did not get taken away.
Overland recycling is a big untapped ressource.Hides-His-Nose - EU5 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wookiefriseur wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Difficult overland is not nearly as sought after and has been proven in the past to have actually caused players to leave. Taking away veteran overland with One Tamriel was very beneficial to the health of this game.
It was the level gate that got taken away with One Tamriel. There never was overland content with veteran difficulty. Only exception would be Craglorn and that did not get taken away.
Overland recycling is a big untapped ressource.
Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold were veteran overland levels.PCNA0 -
wookiefriseur✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold were veteran overland levels.
"Veteran ranks" from before champion points were a thing are not "Veteran Difficulty". It was just lvl 50 content with different enemy levels.Hides-His-Nose - EU4 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Exactly wookiefriseur, as long as a player remained 'on level' the encounters were pretty much the same from v1-v14. Yes there was a spike between level 50 and vet zones but it isn't as if the enemies got any more interesting to fight, it was just inflated damage and health numbers, which were both countered by player levels, and is the reason why people now are both not asking for flat stat changes like that and why they keep saying the old gold and silver zones aren't an good excuse to not do anything for this.
And sure, you, and other (silver), enjoy the card game. I enjoy housing, but not everyone enjoys everything, so any piece of content will have people who won't enjoy it or care for it. But you have explicitly stated in the past how you couldn't understand how others could enjoy such a thing, so I would say that would be similar to someone not caring for pvp and not understanding someone asking for more content in that area. Your own lack of interest or understanding for other people's sense of enjoyment doesn't invalidate their opinions, devalue their feedback, and doesn't get rid of the fact that, players here, like pvp'ers before among many other groups, are being left to the side and ignore for months and years, causing the games reputation to fall, its player base to shrink, and in the long term will cause the game to end sooner. For the long term health of the game something will either be done, or not, but if not then we'll see sooner than later what'll happen.8 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wookiefriseur wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold were veteran overland levels.
"Veteran ranks" from before champion points were a thing are not "Veteran Difficulty". It was just lvl 50 content with different enemy levels.
I completed both of these and they were for veteran level players. It was noticeably more difficult than what we have now and one of the reasons very few ever played through them....players here, like pvp'ers before among many other groups, are being left to the side and ignore for months and years, causing the games reputation to fall, its player base to shrink, and in the long term will cause the game to end sooner.For the long term health of the game something will either be done, or not, but if not then we'll see sooner than later what'll happen.
Overland has been this way for 6 years now since One Tamriel launched in October of 2016 and has been very successful. It is not making the game end sooner, but rather the opposite.Edited by SilverBride on 21 November 2022 05:20PCNA3