Overland Content Feedback Thread

spartaxoxo

Kappachi wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I see more posts on here calling for an OPTION for more difficult overland than I do calling for anything else.

How does using the word "option" change that it is still a separate instance of overland and will cause a separation of players? And how does the word "option" make it take any less resources to develop and implement?

Rich Lambert made a statement that there are no plans for any major changes to overland difficulty.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for supporting your fellow players mate.

Not agreeing with something we don't see a need for or a benefit to does not mean we don't support our fellow players.

It doesn't need to be a separate instance. Many games have figured scaling per person out, someone in normal would still burn bosses as fast as they would in normal while someone in veteran will see an increase challenge, take more damage from boss mechanics, and deal less damage to the bosses, Everyone still plays together but the numbers are tuned depending on the option you choose, that way you can make overland content meaningful again and not just tank & spank everyone while standing in red circles.

Yup. LOTRO does this and it works out well. I have posted about that before. They put a series of debuffs on the player to make that possible, and people marked with that debuff can even get special attacks launched at them. I think it's the best solution because it also allows players to continue to play together. I think it's a great solution. I'll try to find the link again.

ETA:https://massivelyop.com/2021/05/29/lotro-legendarium-how-the-landscape-difficulty-slider-is-changing-the-rules-of-the-game/

colossalvoids

Kappachi wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I see more posts on here calling for an OPTION for more difficult overland than I do calling for anything else.

How does using the word "option" change that it is still a separate instance of overland and will cause a separation of players? And how does the word "option" make it take any less resources to develop and implement?

Rich Lambert made a statement that there are no plans for any major changes to overland difficulty.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for supporting your fellow players mate.

Not agreeing with something we don't see a need for or a benefit to does not mean we don't support our fellow players.

Ah, but people worried about Firesong being too easy I would rest easy, DLC overland zones typically have a higher level of difficulty than regular overland zones, I've been killed by a couple quest mobs in DLC quests at the very least and world bosses absolutely require people to play with, it's just the base game is so lackluster in difficulty and that's where you'll spend a lot of time.

Wish it was the case, can't think of any dlc that have a wb that requires more than one capable person, if we're talking general playerbase they still need probably same amount of people for base game ones as dlc.

colossalvoids

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I see more posts on here calling for an OPTION for more difficult overland than I do calling for anything else.

How does using the word "option" change that it is still a separate instance of overland and will cause a separation of players? And how does the word "option" make it take any less resources to develop and implement?

Rich Lambert made a statement that there are no plans for any major changes to overland difficulty.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for supporting your fellow players mate.

Not agreeing with something we don't see a need for or a benefit to does not mean we don't support our fellow players.

It doesn't need to be a separate instance. Many games have figured scaling per person out, someone in normal would still burn bosses as fast as they would in normal while someone in veteran will see an increase challenge, take more damage from boss mechanics, and deal less damage to the bosses, Everyone still plays together but the numbers are tuned depending on the option you choose, that way you can make overland content meaningful again and not just tank & spank everyone while standing in red circles.

Yup. LOTRO does this and it works out well. I have posted about that before. They put a series of debuffs on the player to make that possible, and people marked with that debuff can even get special attacks launched at them. I think it's the best solution because it also allows players to continue to play together. I think it's a great solution. I'll try to find the link again.

It's still better than nothing thing for some.

Personally for me it would just make some instanced story content playable, but that's about it. Maybe good for some quieter zones at night but quite honestly not seeing myself pursuing such ideal circumstances if can just play something more enjoyable without any magic tricks or luck factors.

saltyseasload

Is it crazy to have a zone or 2 that is harder? Or does that make it too much like other MMOs that have lvl dependant zones? I suppose certain areas like Craglorn give you harder group encounters. But somewhere that also has harder content with zone stories would be a nice option. Maybe even a new type of Tamriel Hero tier.

CP5

spartaxoxo wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Expecting someone whose never interrupted in a fight before to just know that in group content is, problematic, to say the least.

The game literally tells them to break free and tells them the buttons to press as a pop-up the first time they see the attack in a dungeon? At least it does on console.

And never again. How many dozens of hours can someone spend in overland never needing to use that skill, and after all that time do you expect them to remember it? If something is never used it is forgotten, then when it's needed it feels like an 'unfair difficulty spike' because a forgotten skill may as well have never been taught.

Parasaurolophus

Enough... I really don't think we'll ever see this. The game relies solely on players who play only occasionally.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/building-an-mmo-for-solo-players-in-the-elder-scrolls-online-1

AlexanderDeLarge

"Overland isn't supposed to prepare players for vet dungeons."
What is then? Because there is nothing that prepares players for veteran dungeons in the base game. It's paid DLC and contrary to belief not everyone pays for ESO+. Assuming a inexperienced player even has access to and queues for DLC dungeons on normal difficulty where things are slightly more difficult, they'll more than likely get carried by everyone else in the group who tolerated the same obtuse endgame until they figured it all out for themselves. The game's on-boarding experience is awful and mechanics go from not mattering much, if at all to being absolutely mission critical and you can see this in action when you queue for a dungeon and you see CP160 players not dodging, not blocking and not interrupting throughout the entire run. Either they're so comfortable knowing that they're not going to die by ignoring it or they don't even remember such basic mechanics even exist in the game. Neither of which are positive indicators for the state of the game.

If it feels like there's a missing chunk out of the game (veteran overland) that's because it is. It's genuinely shocking that we're having this discussion almost a decade into the game's lifespan because veteran overland should have always been a thing under One Tamriel.

Stinkyremy

It is very annoying. The stories and quest I just run through everything.

At least what we could do with is some large even single or groupoverland content that is instanced and levelled.
I know it negates the 1Tamriel change nut there is no single player content like that for us, every single player or group player content is a dungeon/trial.

We need craglorn back to how it used to be, well a new area that is aimed at max level players.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

Stinkyremy wrote: »

It is very annoying. The stories and quest I just run through everything.

At least what we could do with is some large even single or groupoverland content that is instanced and levelled.
I know it negates the 1Tamriel change nut there is no single player content like that for us, every single player or group player content is a dungeon/trial.

We need craglorn back to how it used to be, well a new area that is aimed at max level players.

Yep, I actually miss being able to have nice conversations with Doshia back in the day...

Until I ran out of soul gems 😔 lolz

WiseSky

Given the choice, 9 out of 10 ESO players chose playing Normal over Veteran for their rewards for an event.

To get the Golden Skull Plunder Boxes are you doing Normal or Veteran Content

TaSheen

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

It is very annoying. The stories and quest I just run through everything.

At least what we could do with is some large even single or groupoverland content that is instanced and levelled.
I know it negates the 1Tamriel change nut there is no single player content like that for us, every single player or group player content is a dungeon/trial.

We need craglorn back to how it used to be, well a new area that is aimed at max level players.

Yep, I actually miss being able to have nice conversations with Doshia back in the day...

Until I ran out of soul gems 😔 lolz

Doshia still makes my life miserable. Crap internet (MAJOR lag due to mega satellite ping - only connect I have available here.... other than.... dialup.... yeah) and ancient reflexes.... There's a lot of stuff in this game I just can't manage.

Love the game. Don't love being ancient....

CP5

WiseSky wrote: »

Given the choice, 9 out of 10 ESO players chose playing Normal over Veteran for their rewards for an event.

To get the Golden Skull Plunder Boxes are you doing Normal or Veteran Content

Because if someone wants to farm something, it's better to get more rolls of the dice, rather than less. That points already been raised when people said "you only want a vet overland for better rewards" and it was clearly outlined how if you want loot or exp running normal is better since the quantity of content matters more there. Does people wanting as many event boxes as possible and therefore doing the quicker content invalidate people who avoid overland because it is so simple to them?

spartaxoxo

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

"Overland isn't supposed to prepare players for vet dungeons."
What is then? Because there is nothing that prepares players for veteran dungeons in the base game.

Normal dungeons. Overland is prep for normal group content. It is normal group content that is supposed to teach vet content. That normal could do a better job of that is a failure of normal mode, not overland. Overland does a decent job of preparing people to play normal base game dungeons.

spartaxoxo

CP5 wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

Given the choice, 9 out of 10 ESO players chose playing Normal over Veteran for their rewards for an event.

To get the Golden Skull Plunder Boxes are you doing Normal or Veteran Content

Because if someone wants to farm something, it's better to get more rolls of the dice, rather than less.

Yup. Absolutely this. Someone looking to farm or just get their skulls done real quick before moving to other content, is gonna pick the fastest option. It's got little to do with general play preferences.

CP5

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

"Overland isn't supposed to prepare players for vet dungeons."
What is then? Because there is nothing that prepares players for veteran dungeons in the base game.

Normal dungeons. Overland is prep for normal group content. It is normal group content that is supposed to teach vet content. That normal could do a better job of that is a failure of normal mode, not overland. Overland does a decent job of preparing people to play normal base game dungeons.

Here are some examples why I disagree with this. Imagine that a group of friends pick up ESO, put a few dozen hours doing overland content, but then do move to normal dungeons.

Normal Direfrost? None of them likely have even broken free in 90% of their time playing, with the only time they did it was in the tutorial when they couldn't see anything on screen due to the blue overlay and the massive prompt telling them what keys to hit. No connection between 'if this, then this' where players can learn to see what to look out for and learn how they can respond. That final boss would likely be nothing more than frustration as the boss would heal to full and kill whoever she grabbed every time because overland is so tame as to avoid implementing this core combat mechanic to any meaningful extent.

How about Normal Arx Corinium? Been there and saw this, so it does happen, with the first snake boss coiling onto itself, making the large aoe that heals it if it does damage to any players. There was a group I had to leave because the two dps wouldn't step out of the aoe for several cycles, and they're probably still there to this day, both because 'avoiding aoes' and 'watching the enemies health' are things that don't quite matter. Overland uses aoe attacks as visual filler, not as something to influence the fight to make it more interesting or act as a threat, and if they don't use the feedback that is the bosses remaining health to see that 'the boss is healing now' and aren't able to connect the reason why to their standing in red, then how would they learn if not being told to by 'toxic elitist.'

I had also mentioned before how some players spam cast ground aoes like the one in cloudrest who spammed volley, without ever having to pay attention to how their own skills work they never learned that they can only have one instance of a ground aoe out at any given time. Same with single target dots, both powerful damage dealing tools but ones that many players never use. I explicitly remember looking through my available skills when facing challenging situations looking for answers, and in doing so learned how the skills worked and how they could come together to solve problems. If no problem is presented that requires anything more than the most basic answer, then even the process of learning isn't taught.

That is why even the most patient of experienced players can be called out for being too demanding when suggesting what tools someone has to help themselves with because the one in need of help has always found success doing what they are and the thought of needing to do more seems too punishing, especially when this is done in group content rather than an area where a player can learn at their own pace, without the judgment of others, how to manage in the game on their own.

Zama666

Khenarthi wrote: »

My 2 cents, from another thread:

I'm not opposed to OPTIONAL harder overland as long as there are NO extra rewards. Then the people who want a challenge can have it, and people like me who enjoy the current easygoing difficulty won't feel pressured to join the hard mode for extra goodies. Win-Win.

I think more xp should be handed out and improved weapons/armor (blue instead of green).
it will make newer player want to try it and skill up.

Zama666

I would mind a tougher region...specifically for this.
Make it random for creatures and bosses.
Some sort of more evil parallel universe.

spartaxoxo

CP5 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

"Overland isn't supposed to prepare players for vet dungeons."
What is then? Because there is nothing that prepares players for veteran dungeons in the base game.

Normal dungeons. Overland is prep for normal group content. It is normal group content that is supposed to teach vet content. That normal could do a better job of that is a failure of normal mode, not overland. Overland does a decent job of preparing people to play normal base game dungeons.

Here are some examples why I disagree with this. Imagine that a group of friends pick up ESO, put a few dozen hours doing overland content, but then do move to normal dungeons.

I have run into very, very few players who couldn't manage in normal or learn quickly. Maybe they didn't already have break free in mind, but they do learn from the dungeons. The drop-off mostly seems to be at the base game vets. And the majority of mechanical struggles I see is the damage just being low.

Beyond that, I think the primary value of a a separate vet overland instance isn't in giving content who think vet Direfrost keep is too hard. Those people have most of the content in the game. It's giving content to people who do stuff like VMA. There's only two solo arenas in the whole game, and a separate vet instance has the potential to give solo players a real challenge.

BenTSG

I personally would like to see an increase of difficulty to the overland zones and quests, and finding a way to make it optional somehow for those who enjoy it as it is now would allow everyone to have their cake and eat it.

I myself find that I run through quests quite quickly because of how fast I end up killing things, and as a result I am not really getting too immersed into what the quest is about as much. If things was a little harder and I was then not able to speed through so easily, Id be able to enjoy the quests and stories a little more. Sure, you could just tell me to stop killing things quickly, but then it'd become an annoyance to constantly wait and drag out a fight on purpose, or kill a group and wait before attacking the next.

I'm not sure what would be the best way to achieve it though. Make mobs and bosses around Public dungeon level? Normal difficulty dungeon level? I feel mobs in general are very generic and copy/paste, all being slow on their attacks, weak, and using the same sort of abilities as each other and yourself too, so maube making them a little faster in attacking and using abilities?

I'm not going to pretend I know all the awnsers on a perfect difficulty increase, this is just my opinion on the matter.

AlexanderDeLarge

Zama666 wrote: »

I would mind a tougher region...specifically for this.
Make it random for creatures and bosses.
Some sort of more evil parallel universe.

Not good enough considering we had Craglorn and were supposed to have Murkmire as an adventure zone too. At this point I think we're owed a toggle or overland difficulty scaling feature to make up for all this lost time. There is a financial incentive to do it this way. It would encourage players such as myself to buy chapters and DLCs that otherwise would be completely unengaging.

Anyone who plays The Lord of the Rings Online knows how much the landscape difficulty scaling feature salvaged content that would otherwise be ignored and that's a game that still has 'traditional leveled zones'.

AlexanderDeLarge

Khenarthi wrote: »

My 2 cents, from another thread:

I'm not opposed to OPTIONAL harder overland as long as there are NO extra rewards. Then the people who want a challenge can have it, and people like me who enjoy the current easygoing difficulty won't feel pressured to join the hard mode for extra goodies. Win-Win.

I know this is from the first page and I've probably replied to it before but I'll reply to it again. This sort of thing really annoys me. Veteran dungeons have better rewards than normal dungeons. Veteran arenas have better rewards than normal arenas. Veteran trials have better rewards than normal trials. Why should a veteran overland which I would argue should have always been included as part of One Tamriel be any different?

It is so weird that for completely arbitrary reasons people will argue that a veteran overland feature should be unlike every other veteran aspect of the game and give 1:1 rewards as normal.

Dragonredux

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

My 2 cents, from another thread:

I'm not opposed to OPTIONAL harder overland as long as there are NO extra rewards. Then the people who want a challenge can have it, and people like me who enjoy the current easygoing difficulty won't feel pressured to join the hard mode for extra goodies. Win-Win.

I know this is from the first page and I've probably replied to it before but I'll reply to it again. This sort of thing really annoys me. Veteran dungeons have better rewards than normal dungeons. Veteran arenas have better rewards than normal arenas. Veteran trials have better rewards than normal trials. Why should a veteran overland which I would argue should have always been included as part of One Tamriel be any different?

It is so weird that for completely arbitrary reasons people will argue that a veteran overland feature should be unlike every other veteran aspect of the game and give 1:1 rewards as normal.

Because unlike the other content. Overland cannot be replayed unless you make a new character. Unless you are planning on a completely new instance like Warframe's Steel Path.

Dragonredux

Don't remember if I ever commented on this thread, but my ideal overland is just having a toggle makes some story bosses harder. Toggle is basically needed but yes a new player will struggle. I still remember struggling on public dungeons at times on my DK

However, some random schmuck in a dungeon should not be harder than the villain of a storyline who has the potential to destroy Tamriel.

Its just really takes me out when they can threaten me constantly and knowing I can delete them in seconds (barring HP gates). Elsweyr was the worst at this. Love the storyline but fighting Kaalgrontiid and the other named dragons without breaking a sweat if you have a build and then you go and fight the insurgent dragons and they delete your non tank in seconds if you don't kite them.

I really don't care what they do with rewards. Purple gear don't matter over green/blue. You have to make a new instance if you want to give anything more than that if you want vet exclusively.

But really I just want the bosses to back up the trash talk they throw out. You maybe can give the trash mobs updated mechanics if you make a different instance other than just damage and hp.

FlopsyPrince

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Many players who enjoy overland as it is aren't new or unskilled. I'm experienced and geared and I find overland easy, which is exactly how I enjoy it. I do not find it the least bit boring. I play to relax, not struggle.

Regardless, our feedback has been noted and we have been given an answer.

Does not mean it's the right answer. As so many forumers, youtubers, and core data has provided. The game is in decline, the covid peak has passed, many have moved on. I'd love to see an in-game polling system in ESO, like that of Old School Runescape, that really shows what everyone thinks. I'd bet good money that people would vote for an optional hard overland.

Alas, we're stuck with the ZOS profiteers and forum-players, rather than player vote-based democracy. So you're right, none of this matters.

I seriously doubt the reason for ESO troubles is the lack of harder overland.

Parasaurolophus

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Many players who enjoy overland as it is aren't new or unskilled. I'm experienced and geared and I find overland easy, which is exactly how I enjoy it. I do not find it the least bit boring. I play to relax, not struggle.

Regardless, our feedback has been noted and we have been given an answer.

Does not mean it's the right answer. As so many forumers, youtubers, and core data has provided. The game is in decline, the covid peak has passed, many have moved on. I'd love to see an in-game polling system in ESO, like that of Old School Runescape, that really shows what everyone thinks. I'd bet good money that people would vote for an optional hard overland.

Alas, we're stuck with the ZOS profiteers and forum-players, rather than player vote-based democracy. So you're right, none of this matters.

I seriously doubt the reason for ESO troubles is the lack of harder overland.

This is like an example of the fact that the game is now in stagnation. She hasn't changed in years. The same content, which in general does not work very well. My opinion is that eso largely worked due to the popularity of Skyrim. Many players wanted to see the new Vvardenfell, Summerset, visit Elsweyr. And ZoS, seeing population spikes at release moments, focused their efforts entirely on these moments. But the Skyrim hype is long gone, people want to "play" and not just watch locations.

SeaWoodStage

In my opinion the game isn't in stagnation at all. I've only been playing since summer 2018 and since then there's been:

1) Several full chapters and incidental zones, with full, well-written stories, plus dungeons and trials, all with good quality voice acting;
2) The Antiquity system;
3) The Companion system;
4) The sticker-book (THANK YOU)
5) Tales of Tribute (I don't play it myself but tons of people enjoy it)
6) Plus a bunch of quality-of life improvements like being able to deconstruct/refine several items at once. I know if you play on PC you probably already have something that allowed you to do that a million years ago, well console players didn't and I for one appreciate the improvement.

Don't get me wrong, this game royally pisses me off sometimes (constant arsing about with builds, and ffs how hard is it to fix broken lorebooks but I guess it's more important that people can spend money on making their axe look like a fancy leaf axe.)

But overall it's pretty good. It's streets ahead of any other mmo with genuine lore.

spartaxoxo

SeaWoodStage wrote: »

It's streets ahead of any other mmo with genuine lore.

Streets ahead is verbal wildfire.

tonyblack

SeaWoodStage wrote: »

In my opinion the game isn't in stagnation at all. I've only been playing since summer 2018 and since then there's been:

1) Several full chapters and incidental zones, with full, well-written stories, plus dungeons and trials, all with good quality voice acting;
2) The Antiquity system;
3) The Companion system;
4) The sticker-book (THANK YOU)
5) Tales of Tribute (I don't play it myself but tons of people enjoy it)
6) Plus a bunch of quality-of life improvements like being able to deconstruct/refine several items at once. I know if you play on PC you probably already have something that allowed you to do that a million years ago, well console players didn't and I for one appreciate the improvement.

Don't get me wrong, this game royally pisses me off sometimes (constant arsing about with builds, and ffs how hard is it to fix broken lorebooks but I guess it's more important that people can spend money on making their axe look like a fancy leaf axe.)

But overall it's pretty good. It's streets ahead of any other mmo with genuine lore.

1) That’s the whole point of this discussion, major content releases aren’t that exciting if you’re valuing combat part just as much as voice acting and story. The latter one was all right, but not that spectacular as well: the plot is rather predictable, close to no meaningful dialogue options presented in other rpgs (good, evil, greedy, heroic, flirty, etc.), usually just one possible outcome with no alternatives and barely any acknowledgement afterwards. You can complete most dlcs in just one evening with no recollection of what you’ve accomplished since it was done in the same pattern with all the previous stories, all choices made for you and combat encounters didn’t bring anything to spice things up.

2) I’m surprised that now it often brought as a good feature, while initially it received quite negative feedback. its addition was mostly excused by year of performance and the fact that new class was just added in previous chapter. In summary this system just added a layer of grind to get overpowered one piece sets, which essentially replaced monster sets in functionality and housing items similar to those you’d buy at achievements trader. All that is done with very simplistic mini game. The only good thing i could think of it added some motivation to revisit old zones but system itself barely brought anything exciting.

3) While it was nice addition to some players, it was a second year with no meaningful combat addition other than rebalancing. The companions themselves could be more interesting, there are little impact to using them in combat encounters in overland since most of it already too easy while in group content they just a placeholder in case one of the players left or disconnected. Their damage is on pair with inexperienced players in starter gear, they die to most dots (aoe dots in particular), their healing is all right but provides close to no other buffs (other than Bastian light attack boost) and could be easily substituted with class self healing skills. Could be more interesting if they would have more involvement in main stories and there was an option to romance them.

4) It was nice, but other than reducing the grind it didn’t add much.

5) Third year with nothing interesting for combat. Cards aren’t as bad as antiquities as this mini game could be at least fun and diverse but as main chapter feature it didn’t really hold that much interest compare to what new class, skill line or new game mode (not mini game) could bring. I won’t draw a conclusion whether it’s popular or not as I don’t have data, but getting all the achievements is relatively fast, it becomes quite repetitive and the rewards are bad (speaking of those who likes to get close to no rewards from the content). It does feel less popular than battlegrounds though judging by forums and in game leadersboard. How it would fare with such poor motivation to play it beyond getting trophies only time will tell.

So yes, ESO is stagnating when it comes to end game pve and pvp as like I wrote there was nothing meaningful added to combat in recent years to make those new dungeons and trials play differently, while pvp got nothing new at all. Constant balance changes and homogenization of classes don’t help much either. Easy overland might not be the main cause of it all, it’s just adding up to new updates being aren’t fun from veteran perspective.

bethsheba

I don't need to write a dissertation here. The overland content needs to be more challenging. Not just, "put no points in anything and wear no armor and it will be harder" that eliminates the character progression portion of the game. It just needs to be more challenging. Make it easy mode, intermediate, or hard choice, OR just have it stay a certain level of challenging, or something you can toggle in settings, don't know, but as of now I don't even want to do the quests because there is no thrill of danger.

RupzSkooma

First of all, you guys are really talented, as a SDE I know what obstacles (from technical and business sides) we face with big projects but you guys overcame a lot of obstacles and a few remains but I am hopeful you guys will beat those too.
It is great to see how far this game has come from release and now.
You guys brought TES content when it was most needed and you guys are as big fan of the franchise as me. It feels good to know when developers loves their project as much as it's fans.

However, I have left the game after Summerset and came back for Blackwood for a week and then left again and never returned. Only thing that stops me from playing completely is the overworld content difficulty and also overworld rewards.
Even if it is a different instance of the overworld, I don't know the technical challenge you guys will face and I can't pretend to act like it would be small however if you can do it, I will return to this game and enjoy the heck out of it. And I really don't know if it is worth it for you guys as I don't have enough data to go on.
I respect what you guys have done regardless ^^
Good luck!